thehomer:

Doesn't this then imply that Christians should never be in the cage and thus never sin?

Then I also wonder, is sin some sort of bondage or not? I ask because if one is in a cage and told that the door was open, then what was the point of putting the person in the cage if they could always get out?

your father/mother gave birth to you in the cage and padlocked it.

The padlock keys were with satan the devil.

Mr_Anony:
You miss the point.
A man sins, he walks into a trap and falls into bondage.
Christ comes and atones for sin with his life,
The price for sin has been paid, Sin must let go of it's prisoner.
The door of the cage is now open.
The choice is man's if he wants to leave or not.
As it was his choices that led him into the trap in the first place.
The Christian is simply the guy who has walked out of the door.
Preaching the gospel is simply the guy outside informing the guy inside that the gate is open and he too can be free.

I don't really want to go into demonstrating that Christ's atonement was a meaningless gesture but how can someone pay for another person's crime? Justice means that this shouldn't be allowed. If God can change the entire concept of justice by allowing such a gesture, then surely he should also be able to just wipe the slate clean whenever he wants.

With respect to the topic at hand, a person cannot be in bondage if they're free to leave at any time and they know that they're free to leave at any time. e.g if someone walks into a room and is told that they can leave whenever they like, can you really say that such a person is in bondage?

You liken grace to this freedom to leave bondage. My point is that the person isn't actually in bondage thus doesn't need this grace that you're selling.

truthislight:

is it by force?

It is optional.

You make your choice to accept it or not

Why should I accept something that isn't there? Or something that doesn't make sense?

truthislight:

your father/mother gave birth to you in the cage and padlocked it.

The padlock keys were with satan the devil.

Well why should people be born in this cage? Why couldn't God do something better? Or wasn't he powerful enough?

thehomer:

I don't really want to go into demonstrating that Christ's atonement was a meaningless gesture but how can someone pay for another person's crime? Justice means that this shouldn't be allowed. If God can change the entire concept of justice by allowing such a gesture, then surely he should also be able to just wipe the slate clean whenever he wants.

When you sign a surety for someone is it not justice that you bear his debts?
If God simply wipes the slate clean, can you really call Him just? Perhaps merciful but definitely not just because by having mercy, He will not be carrying out justice.

With respect to the topic at hand, a person cannot be in bondage if they're free to leave at any time and they know that they're free to leave at any time. e.g if someone walks into a room and is told that they can leave whenever they like, can you really say that such a person is in bondage?

You liken grace to this freedom to leave bondage. My point is that the person isn't actually in bondage thus doesn't need this grace that you're selling.

I think you are beginning to grasp the concept of unconditional love and grace that cannot be lost.....

.........Now if a person cannot leave the room not because the door is not open but because he refuses walk through the door, can you honestly say that the person is free? Even though freedom is available.

Mr_Anony:
Yes, God loves humans unconditionally. One cannot lose grace, however one can reject it.

He doesn't love all humans. In fact he will forever hate some....check the verse below

Malachi 1:3
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

truthislight:

lol.

Do you want to go crowl with other people wives there?

You want God to accept you the way you are so that you go mess up the place the way you have mess up this system. Lol
Causing hatred envy and greed.

God have a standard of justice which state "soul for soul"
thats why someone has to fulfilled/meet that standard and Jesus meets the requirments

God is no human that changes standards any how.

However, this is where love/grace comes in for the benefit of man.

"not because we first love God but God love us first that is why he sent his only begotten son so that any that exercises faith in him may not parish but have everlasting life" the bible says.

the period we still leave in is still the Grace period.

Please can you allow the Bible God defend himself. You keep talking about him as if you have seen him before.

thehomer:

I don't really want to go into demonstrating that Christ's atonement was a meaningless gesture but how can someone pay for another person's crime? Justice means that this shouldn't be allowed. If God can change the entire concept of justice by allowing such a gesture, then surely he should also be able to just wipe the slate clean whenever he wants.

With respect to the topic at hand, a person cannot be in bondage if they're free to leave at any time and they know that they're free to leave at any time. e.g if someone walks into a room and is told that they can leave whenever they like, can you really say that such a person is in bondage?

You liken grace to this freedom to leave bondage. My point is that the person isn't actually in bondage thus doesn't need this grace that you're selling.

i hope you will accept that the inheritance that your parent left behind for you should be wiped off the way that you are asking here?

What is being said here is an inheritance and it is what your parent Have that they can give to you it has nothing to do with your choice/choices.

Your/our parent pass onto us imperfection.

Eg:
The bread pan for molding of bread if it has a dent the bread must take the dent,

if the pan was round the bread will be round,

if the pan was straith the bread will be straith.

The bread has no option in the shape it will take the pan does.

1. Our parent became imperfect and they pass on to us imperfection

2. Our parent were rejected by God the sauce of life. We the children were born into that same condition.

3. Our parent became imperfect and pass to us imperfection also.

To correct all this is the process that God has put in place. He is the source of life, and he says that all that want this life must acknowledge the channel he used in bringing it about.

This also implies rejection of satan in the process.

Peace

Mr_Anony:
When you sign a surety for someone is it not justice that you bear his debts?
If God simply wipes the slate clean, can you really call Him just? Perhaps merciful but definitely not just because by having mercy, He will not be carrying out justice.


I think you are beginning to grasp the concept of unconditional love and grace that cannot be lost.....

.........Now if a person cannot leave the room not because the door is not open but because he refuses walk through the door, can you honestly say that the person is free? Even though freedom is available.

Unconditional love is non- judgmental! In fact it will let you be and not disturb you at all. But you Bible God has committed lots of atrocities which makes him/her/it far from loving.

If you were talking about you parents loving you,i will understand and probably believe you cos you are an eye witness to what you were saying. But you have never seen the bible god and he/it/she is NOT loving AT ALL!!!! according to the bible


I hope you are familiar with the verse below
Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Mr_Anony:
Again, you have poor understanding of love.
If your brother offends your father, and you choose to bear the punishment for your brother, you have shown love. If your father punishes, he shows justice. If your brother rejects your sacrificial offer, then he must bear the punishment upon himself.

first of all, the idea of unconditional love in the face of a justice system is contradictory. The whole essence of showing Justice is to show that there is no such things as unconditional love unless your idea of unconditional is different. If I don't believe in your God, then he shows me the door to hell yet I am to believe his love is unconditional?
Secondly, your brother and father anology is a far cry from what you are saying. Using your analogy, I have to forever be bound by my brothers rules and regulations all because my brother chose to take my punishment.
So according to your analogy everytime I commit a sin my father is supposed to forgive me when I remind him that my brother once took the punishment for me right? Where does that kind of justice system occur? In heaven i guess. . Lol

thehomer:

Why should I accept something that isn't there? Or something that doesn't make sense?

now that is you choice as an atheist.

truthislight:

i hope you will accept that the inheritance that your parent left behind for you should be wiped off the way that you are asking here?

What is being said here is an inheritance and it is what your parent Have that they can give to you it has nothing to do with your choice/choices.

Your/our parent pass onto us imperfection.

Eg:
The bread pan for molding of bread if it has a dent the bread must take the dent,

if the pan was round the bread will be round,

if the pan was straith the bread will be straith.

The bread has no option in the shape it will take the pan does.

1. Our parent became imperfect and they pass on to us imperfection

2. Our parent were rejected by God the sauce of life. We the children were born into that same condition.

3. Our parent became imperfect and pass to us imperfection also.

To correct all this is the process that God has put in place. He is the source of life, and he says that all that want this life must acknowledge the channel he used in bringing it about.

This also implies rejection of satan in the process.

Peace

You need to chill dude. If this is the reality you have created for yourself,it really is a shame cos the book your read all this from was written by the slave masters to oppress us mentally. I understand a lot of Nigerians are still caught up in the matrix, but seriously you are going too far! you need help!!!!

ifeness:

Please can you allow the Bible God defend himself. You keep talking about him as if you have seen him before.

if he is my father why should i not know him well?

We all make our choices

Mr_Anony:
Actually, I hold that you will be judged for your own sins however let us even assume "original sin" i.e. you were born in the cage. It still doesn't mean that you should stay in it after you have been informed that the door is now open.

yeah, but there are conditiond for walking out, yes or know?

ifeness:

Unconditional love is non- judgmental! In fact it will let you be and not disturb you at all. But you Bible God has committed lots of atrocities which makes him/her/it far from loving.

If you were talking about you parents loving you,i will understand and probably believe you cos you are an eye witness to what you were saying. But you have never seen the bible god and he/it/she is NOT loving AT ALL!!!! according to the bible


I hope you are familiar with the verse below
Romans 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

stay on the topic.

Talking about parent, Adam and if who are they to you?

Since you dont accept there is God i wander how the issue of Adam can make sense to you?

truthislight:

if he is my father why should i not know him well?

We all make our choices

@ truthislight:

i am waiting for an answer from ur God....ask him what my middle name is if he is all powerful?

what does he look like and could you please ask him what my middle name is?

rhymz: first of all, the idea of unconditional love in the face of a justice system is contradictory. The whole essence of showing Justice is to show that there is no such things as unconditional love unless your idea of unconditional is different. If I don't believe in your God, then he shows me the door to hell yet I am to believe his love is unconditional?
Secondly, your brother and father anology is a far cry from what you are saying. Using your analogy, I have to forever be bound by my brothers rules and regulations all because my brother chose to take my punishment.
So according to your analogy everytime I commit a sin my father is supposed to forgive me when I remind him that my brother once took the punishment for me right? Where does that kind of justice system occur? In heaven i guess. . Lol

you equation ignores satan.

Justice must be seen to have been served.

Just the way satan came to be incharge is the same way he came to loose all.

If you dont take note of satan you make a very big mistake.

By the way, are you an atheist?

truthislight:

stay on the topic.

Talking about parent, Adam and if who are they to you?

Since you dont accept there is God i wander how the issue of Adam can make sense to you?

Adam(Adamu according to the Sumerian tablets) Yes they are a group of people genetically manipulated by aliens.

ifeness:


You need to chill dude. If this is the reality you have created for yourself,it really is a shame cos the book your read all this from was written by the slave masters to oppress us mentally. I understand a lot of Nigerians are still caught up in the matrix, but seriously you are going too far! you need help!!!!

you are an atheist then.

That is not my fault.

truthislight:

half knowledge again.

It is not him that puts you in a cage but your irresponsible father(Adam) put you in the cage, under the tutulage of satan.

Dont you know when he disobey God and obeyed satan that he was sent out of the garden? = rejection by the one that have the power and the means of what it takes to take care of you.

Who gave Adam all he had at the first place?

What did satan gave to him to justify his trusting satan in place of God? Nothing.

Adam was just plane foolish that is why satan tricked him.

On the other hand Jesus was wise and reject the "bread"

My father that I know of and have lived with until he died was not adam, same goes for my mother. What kind of Loving father visits the anger and wrath commited by some fictitious id!ot in the past against a person that does not know the id!ot. Your God's justice system is malicious and extremely inconsidetate if he judges me before I get a chance by the wrong doing of the caricature he once created to humour himself from his bordom. How would you feel if you are judged by the sins of somebody you don't know or ever met? Arr you ok at all sef? What kind irational BS are you spewing sef, must ne high on some Jesus kool aid like those American Jonsing christians that allowed themselves to be murdered by A jonsing Jimy.. . Lol. .unvonditional wrath.

ifeness:
Yes they are a group of people genetically manipulated by aliens.

The ever present aliens! lol

What is the difference between your aliens and their gods? (rhetorical question)

Mr_Anony:
When you sign a surety for someone is it not justice that you bear his debts?
If God simply wipes the slate clean, can you really call Him just? Perhaps merciful but definitely not just because by having mercy, He will not be carrying out justice.

One can pay a debt of money for someone else but one cannot pay for another person's crime. e.g one cannot serve another person's jail term for murder. God already wipes the slate clean doesn't he? This means you don't think God is just.

Mr_Anony:
I think you are beginning to grasp the concept of unconditional love and grace that cannot be lost.....

.........Now if a person cannot leave the room not because the door is not open but because he refuses walk through the door, can you honestly say that the person is free? Even though freedom is available.

But the person can leave according to you. If the door is open, the person can leave so yes the person is free.

truthislight:

i hope you will accept that the inheritance that your parent left behind for you should be wiped off the way that you are asking here?

What is being said here is an inheritance and it is what your parent Have that they can give to you it has nothing to do with your choice/choices.

Your/our parent pass onto us imperfection.

Eg:
The bread pan for molding of bread if it has a dent the bread must take the dent,

if the pan was round the bread will be round,

if the pan was straith the bread will be straith.

The bread has no option in the shape it will take the pan does.

1. Our parent became imperfect and they pass on to us imperfection

2. Our parent were rejected by God the sauce of life. We the children were born into that same condition.

3. Our parent became imperfect and pass to us imperfection also.

To correct all this is the process that God has put in place. He is the source of life, and he says that all that want this life must acknowledge the channel he used in bringing it about.

This also implies rejection of satan in the process.

Peace

"Sin" shouldn't be heritable. If you think it should be heritable, please tell me why.

thehomer:

I don't really want to go into demonstrating that Christ's atonement was a meaningless gesture but how can someone pay for another person's crime? Justice means that this shouldn't be allowed. If God can change the entire concept of justice by allowing such a gesture, then surely he should also be able to just wipe the slate clean whenever he wants.

With respect to the topic at hand, a person cannot be in bondage if they're free to leave at any time and they know that they're free to leave at any time. e.g if someone walks into a room and is told that they can leave whenever they like, can you really say that such a person is in bondage?

You liken grace to this freedom to leave bondage. My point is that the person isn't actually in bondage thus doesn't need this grace that you're selling.

My Friend, forget all that fairy tale BS about some Jesus that died and woke up for the atonement of the sins of adherents, all that fairytale has been proven to be mythological hogwash, a concept stolen from pagan gods that were once believed by People who existed before "Christ" to have existed too before.
Little wonder they can't point out to any physical evidence to show that he ever existed. Even in the roman records, there is no such thing as a Jesus killed on cross by Pontius Pilate. The whole Jesus story is a Pius fraud designed by roman bishops and politicians that merged Roman pagan believes and dogma to that of Jewish traditional believe system. Go and take a look at the identity of all the so-called authors of canonical gospels f the new testament, nobody can say for sure who wrote them. The remarkable stories of jesus described in these GOD spells are not in any well documented records of history non-christian historians of the time the bible claimed Jesus existed. The Pauline epistles on closer observation describes a jesus different from the ones paul talked about. . The whole thing was written by mere men with pagan ideologies and political motives to control people en-mass. The whole Christian thing is a big fraud.

Martian:

The ever present aliens! lol

What is the difference between your aliens and their gods? (rhetorical question)

no difference actually

ifeness:

what does he look like and could you please ask him what my middle name is?

you are an atheist. Your choice.

God is a spirit.

We have spirit bodies and physical bodies.

truthislight:

now that is you choice as an atheist.

Do you choose to accept something that isn't there and act as if it were there?

rhymz: But the person can leave according to you. If the door is open, the person can leave so yes the person is free.

Now, this is utterly true. It is the reason for condemnation.

truthislight:

you are an atheist. Your choice.

God is a spirit.

We have spirit bodies and physical bodies.

A spirit who wants to be worshiped. please could you ask him why he hated Esau?

I have an isreali friend. He claimed their Torah God told them black people are animals and they should be used as slaves.

Are you not already a slave to him?

ifeness:

@ truthislight:

i am waiting for an answer from ur God....ask him what my middle name is if he is all powerful?

what does he look like and could you please ask him what my middle name is?

am not into fortune telling/witch craft.

Am only telling you what the bible says

rhymz: My father that I know of and have lived with until he died was not adam, same goes for my mother. What kind of Loving father visits the anger and wrath commited by some fictitious id!ot in the past against a person that does not know the id!ot. Your God's justice system is malicious and extremely inconsidetate if he judges me before I get a chance by the wrong doing of the caricature he once created to humour himself from his bordom. How would you feel if you are judged by the sins of somebody you don't know or ever met? Arr you ok at all sef? What kind irational BS are you spewing sef, must ne high on some Jesus kool aid like those American Jonsing christians that allowed themselves to be murdered by A jonsing Jimy.. . Lol. .unvonditional wrath.

your father does not have a father and your grand father does not have a father etc, etc and i know you know all of them then,

your first father chose satan instead of God.

satan has a right of claim to what Adam handed over to him.

You may not know what you are saying then i understand your situation,

that is why am talking to you.

You cant claim an excuse of not knowing any longer, but that you reject it.