thehomer:

Read your Bible and see what Satan told Eve. He told her that she wouldn't die but would become wise and she didn't die.

^^^^
you need to take in more knowledge from the bible to be sure of what you are saying/know.

Half knowledge is Dangerous.

Now,

Adam lived 930yrs.

But we know that God one(1) day = 1000yrs

1. 2peter 3:8 = a day(1) with God = 1000yrs with man.

2: psalm 90:4, a day pass with God = 1000yrs with man

3. A judgement "DAY" set by God is:
Acts 17:31 = 1000yrs judgement "DAY" to man Revelation 20:1-4.

Adam lived for 930yrs less 1000yrs.
less than a day

the issue of night and day is relative cus it is a function of the planet rotating as it goes round the sun and God see all irrespective of the country/continent.

So, while some places faces the sun the other are on the other side of it, this is not a barrier to God since his throne is in the heaven.
But to the humans This is night and day.

God's throne is in heaven.
When christ went back to God he ascended to the heaven leaving planet earth. God does not need the sun.

The bible says that those going to heaven will not have need for the moon/sun as a means of light since God will be their source of light, meaning that God does not need the sun as a reference point for his own time.
So, by God own time of 1day = 1000yrs to man Adam died same day.

Adam did not lived up to a day just as God said, He died that day.

Satan is the liar he is the father of the lies.

The problem again is that he blinds people from seeing him for who he is 2corinthians 4:4

peace

thehomer:

One can pay a debt of money for someone else but one cannot pay for another person's crime. e.g one cannot serve another person's jail term for murder. God already wipes the slate clean doesn't he? This means you don't think God is just.



But the person can leave according to you. If the door is open, the person can leave so yes the person is free.

Did you say this @thehomer? And did I say the following?

Ihedinobi: Now, this is utterly true. It is the reason for condemnation.

It's on the second page. True, I'd mistakenly attributed the bolded part of your comment to rhymz when I responded with that post. Is that enough reason to subtly accuse me of lying?

Sorry to draw us all the way back............but to continue with answering you:-

thehomer:

One can pay a debt of money for someone else but one cannot pay for another person's crime. e.g one cannot serve another person's jail term for murder. God already wipes the slate clean doesn't he? This means you don't think God is just.

Your response here tells me that you didn't quite understand what I was saying. I'll play it out again.

Let me paint you a simple picture:
Assuming you killed someone and your victim's relatives are out to take vengeance, they capture you and are about to kill you when one of your brothers pleads for your life and offers his life for yours. If he is killed in your place, Justice has been served.

I hope you get this analogy now.

But the person can leave according to you. If the door is open, the person can leave so yes the person is free.

Yes he can leave but then the open door in the analogy is Christ. If He continues to reject the door, he remains trapped in the cage of his own doing.

thehomer:

I couldn't parse your answer through the irrelevant introductions you were making. Why don't you plainly answer the question I asked?

No in this case of Adam.

Everyone one will be Given a fair trial even those that have died will come up and take the opportunity.

The father Adam will not benefit from the resurection meant for all good/ignorant mankind John 5:28,29 that ever lived and died. (note ALL)

Adam died pepetually for his sin.

but any of Adam ofspring that has not heard about christ/God arragement will be given an oportunity during the 1000yrs Judgement day, Revelation 20:12-14

so, it cant be said that God will kill All of Adam children on the basis of Adam sin but that they will be given a fair opportunity to chose a differed course/reject satan and be given eternal life.

But every of Adam's children have an oportunity to decide who to obey.

Any that stick with Adam choice and stay with satan and rejects God will die pepetually like Adam GENESIS 3:19.

That is where the love/mercy comes in.

Peace

thehomer: But the serpent was in fact right. After she ate the fruit, she didn't die did she? So the disobedience was the crime and not simply eating the fruit. Now why did God create people with the nature of being disobedient?

Show me how my explanations about God's Nature have not addressed the bolded question. This is proof 1 of your circling back to cleared arguments when you come up short on logical rebuttals.

Do plants, bacteria and the malaria parasite have choices to go against him? Who are you to say that God cannot create a world without beings that have their own minds? How do you know that it is his nature?

Last question first, the Bible reveals it to be so.
Second question. I'm His son. Thus, I'm privy to His councils.
First question. Don't touch this, sir.

Well the stones won't cry out in pain so what will they cry out? Isn't it what the people weren't saying that they would say?

It appears from this comment that you know for sure what the stones would have cried. You should tell us how you know.

Anyhow, of greater importance is why you misrepresented Jesus's words. I have shown them to be other than you implied. So you cannot continue to base your claim that God could have created stones to sing His praises off of that. Unless of course, you're going to show us with incontrovertible arguments that the stones were going to sing His praises.

That's just it. I don't have to examine all to show you that, I can simply use rational reasons and reasonable generalizations to show it. That is the nature of some scientific demonstrations and philosophical arguments.

Generalizations are only as reasonable as the assumptions off of which they're based. So if you're going to generalize, indicate what assumptions you're making and establish their validity.

I've checked and I didn't find such a response.

Check my last post.

I wonder why.

Haven't we done that already? Is there a difference between this argument and that about God's morality? What's the point of getting into it again? Even if we both haven't taken each other on it in full measure, I know that you have sparred with Mr Anony appreciably on it and his views are mine.

Sure you don't but I do. Have you heard of Pascal's Wager? That is the premise of the entire argument and I know people who have been swayed by it.

People are swayed by arguments that GEJ is a good president too. But you find them kicking against his policies and fighting his authority when such policies affect them in some unsavory way.

Mr_Anony: Sorry to draw us all the way back............but to continue with answering you:-

Your response here tells me that you didn't quite understand what I was saying. I'll play it out again.

Let me paint you a simple picture:
Assuming you killed someone and your victim's relatives are out to take vengeance, they capture you and are about to kill you when one of your brothers pleads for your life and offers his life for yours. If he is killed in your place, Justice has been served.

I hope you get this analogy now.

I got the analogy the first time and actually, justice hasn't been done. If that were just, then why do you think that the courts don't allow what you're saying to be widely practiced?

Mr_Anony:
Yes he can leave but then the open door in the analogy is Christ. If He continues to reject the door, he remains trapped in the cage of his own doing.

Is Jesus preventing the person from leaving the cage?

truthislight:
^^^^
you need to take in more knowledge from the bible to be sure of what you are saying/know.

Half knowledge is Dangerous.

Now,

Adam lived 930yrs.

But we know that God one(1) day = 1000yrs

1. 2peter 3:8 = a day(1) with God = 1000yrs with man.

2: psalm 90:4, a day pass with God = 1000yrs with man

3. A judgement "DAY" set by God is:
Acts 17:31 = 1000yrs judgement "DAY" to man Revelation 20:1-4.

Adam lived for 930yrs less 1000yrs.
less than a day

the issue of night and day is relative cus it is a function of the planet rotating as it goes round the sun and God see all irrespective of the country/continent.

So, while some places faces the sun the other are on the other side of it, this is not a barrier to God since his throne is in the heaven.
But to the humans This is night and day.

God's throne is in heaven.
When christ went back to God he ascended to the heaven leaving planet earth. God does not need the sun.

The bible says that those going to heaven will not have need for the moon/sun as a means of light since God will be their source of light, meaning that God does not need the sun as a reference point for his own time.
So, by God own time of 1day = 1000yrs to man Adam died same day.

Adam did not lived up to a day just as God said, He died that day.

Satan is the liar he is the father of the lies.

The problem again is that he blinds people from seeing him for who he is 2corinthians 4:4

peace

If you make any definitions that you like, you can come to any conclusion that you like. 1 day is 1 day. 1000 years is 1000 years. If you wish to push your claims, then how old do you think the earth is?

Ihedinobi:

Did you say this @thehomer? And did I say the following?



It's on the second page. True, I'd mistakenly attributed the bolded part of your comment to rhymz when I responded with that post. Is that enough reason to subtly accuse me of lying?

If you didn't properly attribute your response, then why are you surprised that I didn't find it? I didn't accuse you of lying whether subtly or openly. You really need to avoid thinking that you're under persecution.

truthislight:

No in this case of Adam.

Good. That was my point. One shouldn't make children sinful because their parents were sinful.

truthislight:
Everyone one will be Given a fair trial even those that have died will come up and take the opportunity.

The father Adam will not benefit from the resurection meant for all good/ignorant mankind John 5:28,29 that ever lived and died. (note ALL)

Adam died pepetually for his sin.

but any of Adam ofspring that has not heard about christ/God arragement will be given an oportunity during the 1000yrs Judgement day, Revelation 20:12-14

so, it cant be said that God will kill All of Adam children on the basis of Adam sin but that they will be given a fair opportunity to chose a differed course/reject satan and be given eternal life.

But every of Adam's children have an oportunity to decide who to obey.

Any that stick with Adam choice and stay with satan and rejects God will die pepetually like Adam GENESIS 3:19.

That is where the love/mercy comes in.

Peace

My question then is this. Why is is accepted that humans are sinful by nature if they didn't get it from Adam?

thehomer:

I got the analogy the first time and actually, justice hasn't been done. If that were just, then why do you think that the courts don't allow what you're saying to be widely practiced?

You are assuming that the courts are just.(if we are both referring to the same "courts"
A legal system and Justice are two entirely different things. As human beings, we have an inherent justice system in us.
If a man rapes your daughter, justice can only be done when the man has suffered adequately for his crime.
Any court that doesn't punish the rapist is an unjust court. A merciful judge will be unjust by showing mercy

Is Jesus preventing the person from leaving the cage?

Nope, Jesus is the open door. The man in the cage can choose to walk through it or to remain in the cage.

thehomer:

If you make any definitions that you like, you can come to any conclusion that you like. 1 day is 1 day. 1000 years is 1000 years. If you wish to push your claims, then how old do you think the earth is?

stay on the topic,

if you have red those references i would not expect you to get it wrong.

God is not afraid of you is he?

If God says that he has fixe a day in which he will judge the earth by a man christ Jesus Acts 17:31 = "a DAY"
and the judgement "DAY" turns out to 1000yrs Revelation 20:1-4 and you still say that God is a liar in eden?

The issue i have notice is that you people use your limited knowledge/understanding of the bible to judge God.

I dont think that this is right.

Peace

thehomer:

If you didn't properly attribute your response, then why are you surprised that I didn't find it? I didn't accuse you of lying whether subtly or openly. You really need to avoid thinking that you're under persecution.

I should be. And quit with the spurious conclusions, will you. What suggests that I think that I'm under persecution? Enough with this. There's no need to make a new issue out of it. Deal with the ones we've got right now.

Ihedinobi:

Show me how my explanations about God's Nature have not addressed the bolded question. This is proof 1 of your circling back to cleared arguments when you come up short on logical rebuttals.

And this is proof 1 that you're simply looking for any excuse to flee.

My question is "Why did God create humans with the nature of being disobedient"? And your explanations responding to it are things like: "Because we are humans born of Adam, we sin." and "That thought that the serpent was right was the sin." These responses are simply irrelevant in explaining the reason for creating disobedient creatures. If your God makes humans who are disobedient from the get go then places them with the serpent and the fruit tree, then what other outcome can one reasonably expect?

Ihedinobi:
Last question first, the Bible reveals it to be so.

Where does it reveal this?

Ihedinobi:
Second question. I'm His son. Thus, I'm privy to His councils.

Really now. So God has came down and told you that he actually cannot create a world without sapient beings yet scientifically speaking, for a long time the earth was without sapient beings. Now one of you must be wrong.

Ihedinobi:
First question. Don't touch this, sir.

Why not?

Ihedinobi:
It appears from this comment that you know for sure what the stones would have cried. You should tell us how you know.

Anyhow, of greater importance is why you misrepresented Jesus's words. I have shown them to be other than you implied. So you cannot continue to base your claim that God could have created stones to sing His praises off of that. Unless of course, you're going to show us with incontrovertible arguments that the stones were going to sing His praises.

I didn't misrepresent his words. The implication of his words was that the stones will sing his praises if people didn't. That is the conclusion that bible scholars and preachers have arrived at and if I were a Christian, that would also be the conclusion to arrive at. Obviously since it was metaphorical, the sorts of arguments to be used would be literary ones. If you like, I can present you with links demonstrating what I've said.

Ihedinobi:
Generalizations are only as reasonable as the assumptions off of which they're based. So if you're going to generalize, indicate what assumptions you're making and establish their validity.

And I had began by pointing out to you that belonging to the wrong denomination means you're sinning against God and the infeasibility of going a week without committing what God calls a sin.

Ihedinobi:
Check my last post.

Checked and responded to.

Ihedinobi:
Haven't we done that already? Is there a difference between this argument and that about God's morality? What's the point of getting into it again? Even if we both haven't taken each other on it in full measure, I know that you have sparred with Mr Anony appreciably on it and his views are mine.

Sure there are differences. Morality is about performing right actions while justice is about meting out appropriate punishments or granting appropriate rewards.

Ihedinobi:
People are swayed by arguments that GEJ is a good president too. But you find them kicking against his policies and fighting his authority when such policies affect them in some unsavory way.

What does this have to do with what I said?

thehomer:

Good. That was my point. One shouldn't make children sinful because their parents were sinful.



My question then is this. Why is is accepted that humans are sinful by nature if they didn't get it from Adam?

^^^^
error error error .............error

who said that?

I said that Adam was punished for his sin = death

and through the first man death enter into the world.

And all his children inherited it.
sin then leads to death.

Where did you get that?

Lololol.

Bad guy!

All i said is that his children will not have everlasting sentence without being giving an oportunity to Decide who to follow, God or satan.

Mr_Anony:
You are assuming that the courts are just.(if we are both referring to the same "courts"
A legal system and Justice are two entirely different things. As human beings, we have an inherent justice system in us.
If a man rapes your daughter, justice can only be done when the man has suffered adequately for his crime.
Any court that doesn't punish the rapist is an unjust court. A merciful judge will be unjust by showing mercy

I don't have to assume that the courts are just to see the wisdom in not allowing people to be punished for crimes they didn't commit.
Are you seriously suggesting that killing someone for another person's crime even if the person chose to die for another is a just act?

Mr_Anony:
Nope, Jesus is the open door. The man in the cage can choose to walk through it or to remain in the cage.

I understand it better now and I can now better see the fundamental assumption you're making. According to you, sin is a cage in which everyone finds themselves from which they're to leave through Jesus.

For me, what I see is that I'm outside the cage and Jesus is trying to direct me into a cage by going through him.

truthislight:

stay on the topic,

if you have red those references i would not expect you to get it wrong.

God is not afraid of you is he?

If God says that he has fixe a day in which he will judge the earth by a man christ Jesus Acts 17:31 = "a DAY"
and the judgement "DAY" turns out to 1000yrs Revelation 20:1-4 and you still say that God is a liar in eden?

The issue i have notice is that you people use your limited knowledge/understanding of the bible to judge God.

I dont think that this is right.

Peace

Be careful what you wish for because I don't want to use the Bible as a mathematical or scientific text so if you really wish to be literal with that, then just let me know how old you think the earth is.

thehomer:

I don't have to assume that the courts are just to see the wisdom in not allowing people to be punished for crimes they didn't commit.
Are you seriously suggesting that killing someone for another person's crime even if the person chose to die for another is a just act?

It depends on the angle from which you are viewing it. In this scenario, you are the criminal who deserves punishment. Christ is the one who volunteered His life in exchange for yours.
Knowing exactly how it is that you are the condemned, can you rightfully tell the Judge not to call into account the sacrifice of Christ seeing that it is the only hope you have of being acquitted?

I understand it better now and I can now better see the fundamental assumption you're making. According to you, sin is a cage in which everyone finds themselves from which they're to leave through Jesus.

For me, what I see is that I'm outside the cage and Jesus is trying to direct me into a cage by going through him.

That was exactly how I saw it before I got born again.
However, I hope you do realize that by seeing it the other way round you are affirming that sin=freedom and righteousness=bondage.

truthislight:

^^^^
error error error .............error

who said that?

I said that Adam was punished for his sin = death

and through the first man death enter into the world.

And all his children inherited it.
sin then leads to death.

Where did you get that?

Lololol.

Bad guy!

All i said is that his children will not have everlasting sentence without being giving an oportunity to Decide who to follow, God or satan.

So are you saying we inherited death but not sin?

thehomer:

And this is proof 1 that you're simply looking for any excuse to flee.

My question is "Why did God create humans with the nature of being disobedient"? And your explanations responding to it are things like: "Because we are humans born of Adam, we sin." and "That thought that the serpent was right was the sin." These responses are simply irrelevant in explaining the reason for creating disobedient creatures. If your God makes humans who are disobedient from the get go then places them with the serpent and the fruit tree, then what other outcome can one reasonably expect?



Where does it reveal this?



Really now. So God has came down and told you that he actually cannot create a world without sapient beings yet scientifically speaking, for a long time the earth was without sapient beings. Now one of you must be wrong.



Why not?



I didn't misrepresent his words. The implication of his words was that the stones will sing his praises if people didn't. That is the conclusion that bible scholars and preachers have arrived at and if I were a Christian, that would also be the conclusion to arrive at. Obviously since it was metaphorical, the sorts of arguments to be used would be literary ones. If you like, I can present you with links demonstrating what I've said.



And I had began by pointing out to you that belonging to the wrong denomination means you're sinning against God and the infeasibility of going a week without committing what God calls a sin.



Checked and responded to.



Sure there are differences. Morality is about performing right actions while justice is about meting out appropriate punishments or granting appropriate rewards.



What does this have to do with what I said?

are you insinuating that he God should have created human as zombies?

Or as robot programme to perform specific duties?

Did the bible not say we were created in God's image with a mind to think rationally?

Free will comes at a price. Take note.

If out of ones freewill/volition someone shows love to you wont you appreciate it better then if the love was programme on the entity to show to you?

Such kind love will be an impersonal love.
Lacks emotions and all that makes us human.

Think again.

This freewill is also a function of God's love to us and shows his unselfishness.

Am not a dummy and will never want to be one.

Just this your argument is a testerment to what freewill is.

Please, show your appreciation for the gift of freewill to the giver.

Peace

Mr_Anony:
It depends on the angle from which you are viewing it. In this scenario, you are the criminal who deserves punishment. Christ is the one who volunteered His life in exchange for yours.
Knowing exactly how it is that you are the condemned, can you rightfully tell the Judge not to call into account the sacrifice of Christ seeing that it is the only hope you have of being acquitted?

My point is that punishing someone for the crimes of another isn't just whether or not the person volunteered his life.

Mr_Anony:
That was exactly how I saw it before I got born again.
However, I hope you do realize that by seeing it the other way round you are affirming that sin=freedom and righteousness=bondage.

I would be seeing it that way if I also thought that Jesus was the only route to righteousness and that righteous acts couldn't be done freely but I don't think so. What I do see is Christians telling me what you said which looks to me like a well rigged game. It is what has been famously described as telling a healthy me that I'm ill and surprise surprise they have the only cure.

truthislight:

are you insinuating that he God should have created human as zombies?

Or as robot programme to perform specific duties?

Did the bible not say we were created in God's image with a mind to think rationally?

Free will comes at a price. Take note.

If out of ones freewill/volition someone shows love to you wont you appreciate it better then if the love was programme on the entity to show to you?

Such kind love will be an impersonal love.
Lacks emotions and all that makes us human.

Think again.

This freewill is also a function of God's love to us and shows his unselfishness.

Am not a dummy and will never want to be one.

Just this your argument is a testerment to what freewill is.

Please, show your appreciation for the gift of freewill to the giver.

Peace

In the garden, freewill doesn't really help. God could have made the garden without the fruit and the serpent. If he had done that, would Adam have sinned?

thehomer:

And this is proof 1 that you're simply looking for any excuse to flee.

My question is "Why did God create humans with the nature of being disobedient"? And your explanations responding to it are things like: "Because we are humans born of Adam, we sin." and "That thought that the serpent was right was the sin." These responses are simply irrelevant in explaining the reason for creating disobedient creatures. If your God makes humans who are disobedient from the get go then places them with the serpent and the fruit tree, then what other outcome can one reasonably expect?

Are you serious about the bolded, sir? Surely, you are not intending to persist in wiliness, are you? Do you see no relationship between the question you're asking and our current discussion with respect to what God's Nature allows Him to do? If you cannot, then either you're dishonest or you're not very intelligent, sir.

Where does it reveal this?

But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth. -John 4:23,24 RSV

Really now. So God has came down and told you that he actually cannot create a world without sapient beings yet scientifically speaking, for a long time the earth was without sapient beings. Now one of you must be wrong.

Indications that I have so far are that the age of the earth is still a running debate in the scientific community. I'm sure that you understand that that renders it an unacceptable premise for debate.

Why not?

Don't we have enough debate to deal with right now?

I didn't misrepresent his words. The implication of his words was that the stones will sing his praises if people didn't. That is the conclusion that bible scholars and preachers have arrived at and if I were a Christian, that would also be the conclusion to arrive at. Obviously since it was metaphorical, the sorts of arguments to be used would be literary ones. If you like, I can present you with links demonstrating what I've said.

If you think it helps your argument, you may proceed to present the links. I don't mind.

But I doubt that I need them to make my response. I do not hold views with respect to God and the Bible because somebody else holds them. I am His child. It is my birthright to know Him personally and the meanings of the things He says.

As such, I can tell you that you utterly misconstrued Jesus's words.

And I had began by pointing out to you that belonging to the wrong denomination means you're sinning against God and the infeasibility of going a week without committing what God calls a sin.

And my answer was to indicate the absurdity of that claim by comparing it to diluminati's assertion that wet dreams are a sin.

Sure there are differences. Morality is about performing right actions while justice is about meting out appropriate punishments or granting appropriate rewards.

Awesome

What does this have to do with what I said?

That arguments never make true converts. At best, they show that a position is wrong. But they can never make its holder(s) abandon it.

thehomer:

My point is that punishing someone for the crimes of another isn't just whether or not the person volunteered his life.

As I said, it depends on your vantage point. You can only rightfully make this call from the viewpoint of the judge. From the vantage point of the accused, you will happily welcome it, but then even more interesting is that it is the Judge Himself that suffers for the accused so that even from the vantage point of the accuser, the arrangement can't be faulted.

I would be seeing it that way if I also thought that Jesus was the only route to righteousness and that righteous acts couldn't be done freely but I don't think so. What I do see is Christians telling me what you said which looks to me like a well rigged game. It is what has been famously described as telling a healthy me that I'm ill and surprise surprise they have the only cure.

Lol, I see what you are saying. I take it that from your description that sin is still the cage but there are many doors and you are not in the cage but out in the free air of righteousness and those peddling the "Jesus door" are merely selling something redundant. Am I correct?

Ok then, let us look at your second analogy where you are healthy but someone is trying to sell you a quack cure: Now the question here is how do you know for sure that you are healthy? or how do you know for sure whether the drug being presented to you is genuine or not?

Are you a good person?

thehomer:

So are you saying we inherited death but not sin?

Lololol.

The wages of sin is death Romans 6:23

God did not Give us sin but a faulty choice made by our first parent did.

Human NEVER knew that they were separated from the almighty God the giver of life and sustainer of it, as such human do die.

Along this line human came to accept all sort of theories as to life, false stories that satan was leading those nations to belief in all opposite to what the truth is.

It took the almighty to explain the real situation and what had happened in eden that led to the separation of man from God that led to death.
And it is the same almighty that has profers the solution and the way forward, reconciliation to the source of life.

All he did was hands off from humans affairs since Adam had chosen satan in place of him.

All you are accusing him here is wrong, he is simply the wealthy benefactor that came to the rescue.

He is simply perfect since he being the creator is so lenient and understanding that we are dust.

The ACTIONs he had taken in the past is simply using his power to get his way when satan tries to manipulate things from the background as to prevent the coming of the masaiah and this for the benefit of human.

Dont forget that after the abandonment in Eden all nations were separated from God and worshiping satan.

thehomer:

My point is that punishing someone for the crimes of another isn't just whether or not the person volunteered his life.



I would be seeing it that way if I also thought that Jesus was the only route to righteousness and that righteous acts couldn't be done freely but I don't think so. What I do see is Christians telling me what you said which looks to me like a well rigged game. It is what has been famously described as telling a healthy me that I'm ill and surprise surprise they have the only cure.

^^^^
error

what we are talking about is life in God's new world.

That one escape from the anger of God almighty at the end of this system of things. Revelation 19:11-18

that survival is on the basis of ones decision now while there is yet time.

Ihedinobi:

Are you serious about the bolded, sir? Surely, you are not intending to persist in wiliness, are you? Do you see no relationship between the question you're asking and our current discussion with respect to what God's Nature allows Him to do? If you cannot, then either you're dishonest or you're not very intelligent, sir.

You either have a have a poor reading comprehension skill or you're simply not bright. My point there is that your responses don't actually answer the question. If you think they do, please explain it. Note that they say nothing about his nature. They simply talk about what he did or things that humans did.

Ihedinobi:
But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth. -John 4:23,24 RSV

This is why I say you have a poor reading comprehension. How does what you've said above reveal God's nature to you? Or do you think that being a spirit or having a spirit is something's nature? (i.e if you can even coherently describe what a spirit is.)

Ihedinobi:
Indications that I have so far are that the age of the earth is still a running debate in the scientific community. I'm sure that you understand that that renders it an unacceptable premise for debate.

No it isn't a running debate in the scientific community. You must be confusing creationists with actual scientists with the relevant knowledge e.g geologists. The scientific consensus has given us the best answers. Besides, according to the Bible, when did sapient beings arrive on the earth?

Ihedinobi:
Don't we have enough debate to deal with right now?

Now you're just trying to evade a simple question that shows your contradictions.

Ihedinobi:
If you think it helps your argument, you may proceed to present the links. I don't mind.

But I doubt that I need them to make my response. I do not hold views with respect to God and the Bible because somebody else holds them. I am His child. It is my birthright to know Him personally and the meanings of the things He says.

As such, I can tell you that you utterly misconstrued Jesus's words.

Wait so I'm supposed to just swallow what you've said that goes against my own conclusions and that of people who have studied and taught the Bible? Are you serious?

Ihedinobi:
And my answer was to indicate the absurdity of that claim by comparing it to diluminati's assertion that wet dreams are a sin.

I didn't say anything about wet dreams.

Ihedinobi:
Awesome



That arguments never make true converts. At best, they show that a position is wrong. But they can never make its holder(s) abandon it.

You see, if a position is shown to be wrong, reasonable people drop that position while unreasonable people maintain that position with respect to what is under consideration. So, contrary to what you've said above, arguments actually do make true converts.

thehomer:

Hmm. No wonder prosperity isn't limited to Christianity. They've been praying for everyone.



Does this mean that God loves humans unconditionally? Or is it that grace hops in at a certain point in time? Also, can someone lose this grace?

yes indeed,GOD loves we humans unconditionally,hence He sent His only begotten son to come down from Heaven to this world,2 die for our sake,that we might be reconciled unto Him(jn3;16)
the grace of GOD functioning in our lives is a function of the knowledge of the word of truth u and i possess(2pet1;2)

Mr_Anony:
As I said, it depends on your vantage point. You can only rightfully make this call from the viewpoint of the judge. From the vantage point of the accused, you will happily welcome it, but then even more interesting is that it is the Judge Himself that suffers for the accused so that even from the vantage point of the accuser, the arrangement can't be faulted.

Don't make that assumption. Some people actually do feel remorse and feel that they should be punished for what they've done. Besides whether or not the person feels they should be punished is irrelevant.

Mr_Anony:
Lol, I see what you are saying. I take it that from your description that sin is still the cage but there are many doors and you are not in the cage but out in the free air of righteousness and those peddling the "Jesus door" are merely selling something redundant. Am I correct?

Although we can still disagree on what constitutes as sin but you're largely correct.

Mr_Anony:
Ok then, let us look at your second analogy where you are healthy but someone is trying to sell you a quack cure: Now the question here is how do you know for sure that you are healthy? or how do you know for sure whether the drug being presented to you is genuine or not?

I know because in the case of Christianity, I've examined the claims, their core assumptions and the cures and found them wanting.

Mr_Anony:
Are you a good person?

I generally am a good person are you a good person?

studM:

yes indeed,GOD loves we humans unconditionally,hence He sent His only begotten son to come down from Heaven to this world,2 die for our sake,that we might be reconciled unto Him(jn3;16)
the grace of GOD functioning in our lives is a function of the knowledge of the word of truth u and i possess(2pet1;2)

I'm pretty sure that the word of truth I possess is very different from the one you possess. God needn't have sent his begotten son to die you know. He could have changed all that by divine decree.

thehomer:

In the garden, freewill doesn't really help. God could have made the garden without the fruit and the serpent. If he had done that, would Adam have sinned?

there was no mention of fruit in heaven where satan started and got some angels to join him in his couse of disobedience.

He simply took the same action down to earth.

He knew of God's plans for the earth to be made to be filled with humans.

The tree/fruit is a symbol of God's authority.

Satan simply brought to earth what he had started in heaven.

It is not just the fruit that is the problem but the DISOBEDIENCE. GENESIS 2:17

To understand this think of what was wrong with bread in the case of Jesus and what was Jesus answer to satan.

Imagine if Jesus had obeyed satan what will have happened. Lose God's favour.

After the temptations what did satan then ask for? = an act of worship

now you can see what obedience to satan translate to.

Adam was very stupid to have obeyed satan that had never given him a single thing but the wife greedily fell for a false offer. Was that the only fruit in the garden?

chosing to obey satan instead of God,
surrendering over to satan, the bible let us know (whomever you obey is your master Romans 6:16)

rejecting God the source of life and obeying satan that cant sustain us kept us were we are.

With the Failues and suffering due to disobedience no man or angel will ever again ever challenge Yahweh again for all eternity after satan have been destroyed,
for this will serve as a warning example for all eternity after the world is cleans of all unrigtheousness.

Peace

studM:

yes indeed,GOD loves we humans unconditionally,hence He sent His only begotten son to come down from Heaven to this world,2 die for our sake,that we might be reconciled unto Him(jn3;16)
the grace of GOD functioning in our lives is a function of the knowledge of the word of truth u and i possess(2pet1;2)

Being a christian is really fuccked up! It is like being high on magic mushrooms. I meant no disrespect,but please,i hope you are not brainwashing your kids with these fairy tales?

ifeness:

Being a christian is really fuccked up! It is like being high on magic mushrooms. I meant no disrespect,but please,i hope you are not brainwashing your kids with these fairy tales?

some times when you talk to people in this fashion for love of religion/teaching there children it makes me laugh.

I wish you do know some of the people you address in such away in a forum.