frosbel:

Actually not so fast

This is simply talking about God's word and nothing else , it is so plain.

God used his creative Word , the same he used to create the first Adam to bring into being the Last Adam, who was a true likeness of God.

[quote author=frosbel]

1. In the beginning was the Word

This is the same Word which God used to create the entire heavens and earth and all creation.

Except for fact that the Word is one of the titles of Jesus Christ whom you think is just a man.

frosbel:

2. And the Word was with GOD

His Word was with Him which cannot be seperated from HIM.

Can you see how error begins by inserting what was not said. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

frosbel:

3. And the Word was GOD.

Indeed.


What is the difficulty here .

If you can't see the Word as one of the titles of the Lord Jesus Christ then there is a problem, a big difficulty there for you my friend.

[quote author=OLAADEGBU][/quote]


Indeed Jesus Christ is the WORD of God , the epitome of his creative Power and manifestation in Human Form through.

frosbel:


Indeed Jesus Christ is the WORD of God , the epitome of his creative Power and manifestation in Human Form through.

But your kofessor that you said you agreed 100% with insists that Jesus Christ is just a prophet and not God, how do we reconcile that?

OLAADEGBU:

But your kofessor that you said you agreed 100% with insists that Jesus Christ is just a prophet and not God, how do we reconcile that?

He is called Prophet in the Bible, no ?

"The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him." - Deuteronomy 18:15

Matthew 21:11 The crowds answered, "This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee."

Luke 7:16 They were all filled with awe and praised God. "A great prophet has appeared among us," they said. "God has come to help his people."

So Yes he was a prophet, but he was also Lord, Redeemer, Saviour, King of Kings and Lord of Lords , Son of GOD , etc etc.

frosbel:

He is called Prophet in the Bible, no ?

"The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him." - Deuteronomy 18:15

Matthew 21:11 The crowds answered, "This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee."

Luke 7:16 They were all filled with awe and praised God. "A great prophet has appeared among us," they said. "God has come to help his people."

So Yes he was a prophet, but he was also Lord, Redeemer, Saviour, King of Kings and Lord of Lords , Son of GOD , etc etc.

He is not just a Prophet He is God as John 1:1-2 states:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made". (John 1:1-2)

1:1 In the beginning. It is significant that the Apostle John began his gospel with the words: “In the beginning.” He obviously intended that his record should start with the same words as Genesis, that is, with creation. Since his explicit purpose in writing was to win his readers to Christ as Son of God and Savior (see John 20:30-31), he realized the foundational importance of prior belief in special creation of all things by God. People need to know Jesus Christ as offended Creator before they can believe with understanding on Him as sin-bearing Savior and Redeemer. A foundation of true creationism as the only meaningful context for true evangelism is thus revealed through John, under divine inspiration.

John 1:1
1:1 Word. The “Word” (Greek logos) is the first of at least a dozen titles given to Christ in this first chapter of John’s gospel. Note the others: “the Light” (John 1:7-9); “only Begotten Son” (John 1:14, 18); Jesus Christ” (John 1:17); “the Lord” (John 1:23); “Lamb of God” (John 1:29, 36); “Master” (John 1:38); “King of Israel” (John 1:49); “Son of God” (John 1:34, 49); “Son of man” (John 1:51); “Jesus of Nazareth” (John 1:45); Messiah” (John 1:41). Probably, “the Word of God” (a phrase used 1200 times in the Old Testament) is the most meaningful. Note Psalm 33:6; Hebrews 11:3; 2 Peter 3:5.

John 1:1
1:1 Word was God. This is a very strong assertion that Jesus is God. The eternal Word, who was to be made man (John 1:14), is God (not merely “a god” as some have alleged), and is the same God who created heaven and earth in the beginning. In fact, He is the only “true God” (I John 5:20), who was there “in the beginning.”

John 1:2
1:2 beginning. The definite article has been supplied. The actual Greek is en arche—that is, “in beginning.” The “Word of God” thus was there before the creation of the space-mass-time universe, so that John’s “beginning” even antecedes the Genesis “beginning,” extending without an initial beginning into eternity past, before even time was created. Note also John 17:24, where Jesus, in His humanity, acknowledged that He was with the Father, and loved by the Father, “before the foundation of the world.”

John 1:2
1:2 with God. The “Word of God” (i.e., Jesus Christ) was God, yet also “with God.” Thus God is both personal and plural (in a uni-plural sense only, however, a mysterious category that makes sense only in terms of the doctrine of the Trinity).

For more . . . .

OLAADEGBU:

He is not just a Prophet He is God as John 1:1-2 states:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made". (John 1:1-2)

Jesus Christ is 'GOD' in the sense of the word [b]Adoni [/b]which is typically translated LORD , he is Lord of Lords etc but he is not Yahweh.


There is only ONE GOD and he is YAHWEH.

frosbel:

Jesus Christ is 'GOD' in the sense of the word [b]Adoni [/b]which is typically translated LORD , he is Lord of Lords etc but he is not Yahweh.


There is only ONE GOD and he is YAHWEH.

Jesus Christ is God, not with inverted commas, but the very God of the very God. His name is Yahweh.

Jesus Christ possesses divine names—names that can only be used of God. For example:

Jesus is Yahweh. Yahweh is a very common Hebrew name for God in the Old Testament, occurring over 5,300 times. It is translated Lord (all capitals) in many English translations of the Bible.

We first learn of this name in Exodus 3, where Moses asked God by what name He should be called. God replied to him, "I AM WHO I AM. . . .Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you" (verse 14). Yahweh is basically a shortened form of "I AM WHO I AM" (verse 15). The name conveys the idea of eternal self-existence. Yahweh never came into being at a point in time for He has always existed.

Jesus implicitly ascribed this divine name to himself during a confrontation He had with a group of hostile Jews. He said, "I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58). Jesus deliberately contrasted the created origin of Abraham—whom the Jews venerated—with His own eternal, uncreated nature as God

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/is-jesus-god

OLAADEGBU:

Yours should be Richard Dawkins don't get confused now.

who is Richard Darwin? oh you read his books too?

ifeness:

who is Richard Darwin? oh you read his books too?

Are you going to deny your mentor now?

OLAADEGBU:

Jesus Christ is God, not with inverted commas, but the very God of the very God. His name is Yahweh.

Jesus Christ possesses divine names—names that can only be used of God. For example:

Jesus is Yahweh. Yahweh is a very common Hebrew name for God in the Old Testament, occurring over 5,300 times. It is translated Lord (all capitals) in many English translations of the Bible.

We first learn of this name in Exodus 3, where Moses asked God by what name He should be called. God replied to him, “I AM WHO I AM. . . .Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you’ ” (verse 14). Yahweh is basically a shortened form of “I AM WHO I AM” (verse 15). The name conveys the idea of eternal self-existence. Yahweh never came into being at a point in time for He has always existed.

Jesus implicitly ascribed this divine name to himself during a confrontation He had with a group of hostile Jews. He said, “I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58). Jesus deliberately contrasted the created origin of Abraham—whom the Jews venerated—with His own eternal, uncreated nature as God


http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/is-jesus-god

fa fa Foul.

"During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission." - Hebrews 5:7

1. So Yahweh prayed to himself , right ?
2. So Yahweh offered up petitions with loud cries to himself ?
3. So Yahweh only could save himself from death ?

Wow , you really are blaspheming .


Jesus Christ is the image of God. He reflected the glory of GOD as God had always intended Adam to do , a task which he failed to live up to.

Our Lord and Saviour showed us the way to go to God, total dependence on God, complete Obedience, exhibiting all the attributes of God through the indwelling Power of the Holy Spirit through absolute submission.

He emptied himself of his own will and took on the fullness of God's will as an example for us to follow and emulate.

"your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." - Matthew 6:10

"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." - Luke 22:42


"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven." - Hebrews 1:3

2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

2 Peter 1:17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."


Jesus is not Yahweh, this is Pagan heresy which the catholic church and her daughters have preached and killed for over 1,700 years.

This is why I keep telling you that most deeper life doctrines are not bible doctrines but catholic doctrines

frosbel:

fa fa Foul.

"During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission." - Hebrews 5:7

1. So Yahweh prayed to himself , right ?
2. So Yahweh offered up petitions with loud cries to himself ?
3. So Yahweh only could save himself from death ?

Wow , you really are blaspheming .

These are similar objections raised by Cults and false religions. Of cause Jesus prayed, and He did not pray to himself. The fact that Jesus prayed to the Father, doesn't mean that He is not truly Yahweh. If we are speaking biblically, then, we say that it was in Jesus' humanity that He prayed to the Father. And since Jesus Christ came as a man, and since one of the proper duties of man is to worship, pray to, and to adore God, it was perfectly proper for Jesus to address the Father in prayer. Positionally speaking as a man, as a Jew, and as our High Priest, "in all things He had to be made like His brethren" (Hebrews 2:17). Therefore, Jesus could pray to the Father. But this in no way detracts from His intrinsic deity.

frosbel:

Jesus Christ is the image of God. He reflected the glory of GOD as God had always intended Adam to do , a task which he failed to live up to.

Our Lord and Saviour showed us the way to go to God, total dependence on God, complete Obedience, exhibiting all the attributes of God through the indwelling Power of the Holy Spirit through absolute submission.

He emptied himself of his own will and took on the fullness of God's will as an example for us to follow and emulate.

"your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." - Matthew 6:10

"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." - Luke 22:42


"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven." - Hebrews 1:3

2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

2 Peter 1:17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."


Jesus is not Yahweh, this is Pagan heresy which the catholic church and her daughters have preached and killed for over 1,700 years.

This is why I keep telling you that most deeper life doctrines are not bible doctrines but catholic doctrines

It is not new for cults to claim that the doctrine of the Godhead, otherwise known as the Trinity, is rooted in ancient paganism. The fact is that, the Babylonians and Assyrians actually believed in triads of gods who headed up a pantheon of many other gods. These triads constituted three separate gods (polytheism), which is utterly different from the doctrine of the Trinity that maintains that there is only one God (monotheism) with three persons within the one godhead. Rid yourself of this fallacy by updating your beliefs in the suggested link.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/is-jesus-god

OLAADEGBU:

These are similar objections raised by Cults and false religions. Of cause Jesus prayed, and He did not pray to himself. The fact that Jesus prayed to the Father, doesn't mean that He is not truly Yahweh. If we are speaking biblically, then, we say that it was in Jesus' humanity that He prayed to the Father. And since Jesus Christ came as a man, and since one of the proper duties of man is to worship, pray to, and to adore God, it was perfectly proper for Jesus to address the Father in prayer. Positionally speaking as a man, as a Jew, and as our High Priest, "in all things He had to be made like His brethren" (Hebrews 2:17). Therefore, Jesus could pray to the Father. But this in no way detracts from His intrinsic deity.

1. The fact that Jesus prayed to the Father, doesn't mean that He is not truly Yahweh.

Hmm, you lost me with this one.

So Yahweh prayed to himself, you are really running your mind round in circles here.

2. Jesus' humanity

Another funny one, the last ADAM was supposed to be 100% Human like the first ADAM to undo the damage of the first ADAM.

To suggest otherwise is to bring God's name into disrepute.

How could Jesus be Yahweh when the bible explicitly says that God is not a man.

"God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? " - Numbers 23:19

It is not new for cults to claim

You label us cults because we reject your catholic Pagan heresy.

Now I can understand how Calvin and the Catholic church murdered those who rejected the Pagan Idol concept of trinity.

otherwise known as the Trinity, is rooted in ancient paganism.

Indeed , which is where your mother church copied this concept from and why it is now preached in your deeper life church as well.

The fact is that, the Babylonians and Assyrians actually believed in triads of gods who headed up a pantheon of many other gods. These triads constituted three separate gods (polytheism), which is utterly different from the doctrine of the Trinity that maintains that there is only one God (monotheism) with three persons within the one godhead. Rid yourself of this fallacy by updating your beliefs in the suggested link.

Lol, .

But Trinity is different from the Pagan Trinity, how is that

How can we have 3 people as ONE

Jesus has always been God from the begining.This is explained in the passage below.

Search
Enter the Bible passage (e.g., John 3:16), keyword (e.g., Jesus, prophet, etc.) or topic (e.g., salvation)





Philippians 2:6-8
Good News Translation (GNT)

6  He always had the nature of God,

    

but he did not think that by force he should try to remain[a] equal with God.
7  Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had,

    

and took the nature of a servant.
He became like a human being

    

and appeared in human likeness.
8  He was humble and walked the path of obedience all the way to death—

    

his death on the cross.

frosbel:

1. The fact that Jesus prayed to the Father, doesn't mean that He is not truly Yahweh.

Hmm, you lost me with this one.

You've been lost and you don't know it. There was a time you believed the heresy that Jesus is the same as the Father but now you don't know what you believe. Your case is worse than I thought.

frosbel:

So Yahweh prayed to himself, you are really running your mind round in circles here.

There are three real Persons in the Godhead, not just three ways in which God reveals Himself as you use to believe. The Son prays to the Father, and the Father sent the Holy Spirit when the Son returned to heaven.

frosbel:

2. Jesus' humanity

Another funny one, the last ADAM was supposed to be 100% Human like the first ADAM to undo the damage of the first ADAM.

To suggest otherwise is to bring God's name into disrepute.

How could Jesus be Yahweh when the bible explicitly says that God is not a man.

"God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? " - Numbers 23:19

The more reason why you need to recognise God as the infinite, invisible, omnipresent Father, but also as the Son, the visible, touchable, yet perfectly holy Word always revealing and manifesting the Father, and as the Holy Spirit, always present to guide, convict, and comfort. He is very real—eternal and invisible, omnipresent Father of all, yet visible and approachable through the Son and experienced and understood in the Holy Spirit.

frosbel:

You label us cults because we reject your catholic Pagan heresy.

Now I can understand how Calvin and the Catholic church murdered those who rejected the Pagan Idol concept of trinity.

Christians don't murder heretics false religious folks do, and they have been killing true Christians till now.

frosbel:

Indeed , which is where your mother church copied this concept from and why it is now preached in your deeper life church as well.

Lol, .

You are just one step away from redemption, it's never too late.

frosbel:

But Trinity is different from the Pagan Trinity, how is that

How can we have 3 people as ONE

That you cannot differentiate between polytheism and trinity is your loss.

Here is another powerful verse:

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."(1 Timothy 3:16)

"God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit." "The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (John 1:14), and was "declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness" (Romans 1:4).

You can see here that this couplet relates Christ's human/divine nature. His humanity was evident to all and His divinity was declared through the Spirit.

The trinity dogmata will always make its adherents think like children and like crazy scientists............


Olaadegbu and co. Are actually trying to convince us that GOD can die...

Then what makes Yahweh a.k.a Jesus according to some persons here differ from ZEUS and ARTHEMIS??.....

If Yahweh can die then why should I worship him....??

......

Sick dogma.....

The bible says no one has ever seen GOD(never)....no reason what so ever would warrant humans seeing GOD,because its impossible.....

But here we are hearing something different...

Crazy dogma indeed....

frosbel keep up with d good work.....

If Jesus came to do not his own will, then wasn't he lying??

OLAADEGBU:

Are you going to deny your mentor now?

after reading all your comments,i realized i shouldn't have replied you in the first place. It's obvious you spend most of your time reading a lot of story books.

I think am beginning to like Frosbel!!!

You see this issue of trinity is what is scaring most non-christians away( esp. Muslims tired of their religion) as they dont see christianity as an option , coming from a background of strict monotheism.

At the end we should be very carefull what we ascribe to God as he is a very jealous being and can forgive any sin except ascribing partners with.

I did like to ask , were the jews expecting God himself or a Prophet.
Something of such importance as God the creator of all that exists coming to die on earth for the sins of his own creation by the hand of his own creations should have been emphasised and clearly understood and seriously anticipated by the custodians of the old testament (jews), but we all know they werent expecting the Almighty they were expecting a Prophet like unto Moses.

The OP: I think am beginning to like Frosbel!!!

You see this issue of trinity is what is scaring most non-christians away( esp. Muslims tired of their religion) as they dont see christianity as an option , coming from a background of strict monotheism.

At the end we should be very carefull what we ascribe to God as he is a very jealous being and can forgive any sin except ascribing partners with.

I did like to ask , were the jews expecting God himself or a Prophet.
Something of such importance as God the creator of all that exists coming to die on earth for the sins of his own creation by the hand of his own creations should have been emphasised and clearly understood and seriously anticipated by the custodians of the old testament (jews), but we all know they werent expecting the Almighty they were expecting a Prophet like unto Moses.

You make god sound so important. The rest of us care less

frosbel:

So when you cannot argue the points case by case , you rush off to a site or any site for that matter to look for an article that will label him as a false prophet

Why do you find it so hard to argue your case point by point backed up by scripture, why must you always reply on others through cartoons, pictures and articles to do your thinking for you ?

Let me help you a little bit.

Remember God was in Christ reconciling the world back to himself.

"that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation." - 2 Corinthians 5:19

Jesus Christ was 100% full man and not GOD.

Yahweh cannot be tempted, Yahweh cannot die, Yahweh does not say that the father is greater than he, Yahweh does not eat, drink or sleep.

Mate you are jealously holding unto false doctrine.

One thing I do and which God has blessed me with is to examine all church doctrine in the light of scripture.

During this process I have found out that what the majority of apostate christianity believe in largley unscriptural , such as :

1. Immortal Soul
2. Eternal Hell
3. souls in heaven or hell at death
4. Trinity
5. Tithing
6. rapture

etc etc

Read your bible and humbly ask God for wisdom, that is what I do almost everyday and the traditions of men have been totally destroyed from before my very eyes, praise be to Yahweh our eternal father, saviour and redeemer.

why not allow Olaa to remain with his trinity? Is it by force?

Anyway, he is an old friend to you.

What if his salary is from there? And he cannot leave the money?

frosbel:

2. Jesus' humanity

Another funny one, the last ADAM was supposed to be 100% Human like the first ADAM to undo the damage of the first ADAM.

To suggest otherwise is to bring God's name into disrepute.

The last Adam was not only 100% human He is 100% God. Read your Bible if it still means anything to you.

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthly: the second man is the Lord from heaven" -- 1 Cor.16:45-47

You can see the contrast made between Jesus Christ and Adam. While Adam was the first Adam, Jesus was the second (last) Adam; Adam was a living soul, Jesus was a quickening spirit; Adam was natural, Jesus - spiritual; Adam, earthly but Jesus was heavenly; Adam of earth while Jesus is of heaven; Adam was only man but Jesus Christ is both man and God!. Adam was described as the first Adam, the one who brought sin into the world. He made it necessary for Jesus, the last Adam, to atone for humankind and then rise from the grave with the promise of complete redemption for fallen man and fallen creation.

OLAADEGBU:

The last Adam was not only 100% human He is 100% God. Read your Bible if it still means anything to you.

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthly: the second man is the Lord from heaven" -- 1 Cor.16:45-47

You can see the contrast made between Jesus Christ and Adam. While Adam was the first Adam, Jesus was the second (last) Adam; Adam was a living soul, Jesus was a quickening spirit; Adam was natural, Jesus - spiritual; Adam, earthly but Jesus was heavenly; Adam of earth while Jesus is of heaven; Adam was only man but Jesus Christ is both man and God!. Adam was described as the first Adam, the one who brought sin into the world. He made it necessary for Jesus, the last Adam, to atone for humankind and then rise from the grave with the promise of complete redemption for fallen man and fallen creation.

Don't make the simple word of God so complex.

"So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit." - 1 Corinthians 15:45

Jesus Christ as the last Adsam is a life-giving spirit because he grants eternal life to anyone who believes through the Holy Spirit.

You can wrest scripture and go to a thousand sites to get information, God is ONE , Yahweh is ONE and Trinity is PAGAN.

Jesus was a JEW and he recited the Jewish Creed as follows :

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." - Mark 12:29

frosbel:

Don't make the simple word of God so complex.

"So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit." - 1 Corinthians 15:45

Jesus Christ as the last Adsam is a life-giving spirit because he grants eternal life to anyone who believes through the Holy Spirit.

You can wrest scripture and go to a thousand sites to get information, God is ONE , Yahweh is ONE and Trinity is PAGAN.

Jesus was a JEW and he recited the Jewish Creed as follows :

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." - Mark 12:29

Why did you omit verse 47 where it says that the second man is the Lord from heaven? You see how heresy takes off by omitting words here and there to suit our own bellies.

This is warning and commandment from the Lord.

"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother that walks disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us" (2 Thess.3:6).

"And if he neglect to hear them, tell it to the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be to you as an heathen man and a publican" (Matt.18:17).

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple" (Rom.16:17-18).

[quote author=OLAADEGBU]

Why did you omit verse 47 where it says that the second man is the Lord from heaven? You see how heresy takes off by omitting words here and there to suit our own bellies.

Hmm, and you think I deliberately omitted it

And what is so mathematical about Jesus being the LORD of HEAVEN , of course he is. He has been crowned Lord of Lords by the Father for the following reason :

"And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God." - Hebrews 12 : 1b-2

This is warning and commandment from the Lord.

"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother that walks disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us" (2 Thess.3:6).

"And if he neglect to hear them, tell it to the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be to you as an heathen man and a publican" (Matt.18:17).

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple" (Rom.16:17-18).

My dear friend the ones causing divisions are those who are forming over 30,000 denominations each with it's own creed, unique leader and mode of worship.

Tell me is Christ divided ?

Can I really , if this at all the case, outdo the division that 'churches' like deeper life have created ?

Secondly , a brother who walks disorderly is one who lives in SIN and or causes others to SIN or who walks after the flesh.

To defend the truth once delivered to the saints is not walking disorderly.

I have been to deeper life , I understand your mentality , you cannot believe that a 'church' such as yours can err on doctrine just like the Catholics.

Well I have news for you, scripture is superior to your creeds and takes ultimate precedence.

You and the Catholics have a lot more in common than you care to imagine.


Finally answer the following questions :

1. Can God be tempted

2. Can God Die

@Frosbel,

Could you please pass your comment on the 2 verses brother Olaadegbu quoted.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."(1 Timothy 3:16)

"God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit." "The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (John 1:14), and was "declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness" (Romans 1:4).

More so, if you critically assess your bible on water baptism. Jesus did instruct his disciples to baptize in the name of the Father,Son and Holy Spirit but if you look at most of the baptisms in the bible;you would clearly observe that the apostles did baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.

What could you clearly deduce from the above illustration?

Also, from your write-up, I could deduce that Jesus Christ is in heaven with another personality or an almighty spirit-GOD. Could this my assertion be right from what you have culled and equally stated?


I am not a trinitarian and I believe in ONE ALMIGHTY GOD(JHVH)and I believe in JESUS CHRIST as the Almighty. Perhaps, this defiles human logic and I might as well be unschooled in the word of God but herein lies my belief.

God bless and please do justice to my questions! Cheers!!

frosbel:

My dear friend the ones causing divisions are those who are forming over 30,000 denominations each with it's own creed, unique leader and mode of worship.

Tell me is Christ divided ?

Can I really , if this at all the case, outdo the division that 'churches' like deeper life have created ?

Secondly , a brother who walks disorderly is one who lives in SIN and or causes others to SIN or who walks after the flesh.

To defend the truth once delivered to the saints is not walking disorderly.

I have been to deeper life , I understand your mentality , you cannot believe that a 'church' such as yours can err on doctrine just like the Catholics.

Well I have news for you, scripture is superior to your creeds and takes ultimate precedence.

You and the Catholics have a lot more in common than you care to imagine.


Finally answer the following questions :

1. Can God be tempted

2. Can God Die

I hope you saw the commandments in the passages I quoted to you that they are not the words of men but of God.

"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother that walks disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us" (2 Thess.3:6).

As you can see that these commands are that of our Lord Jesus Christ spoken through His apostles and prophets. It will do you well to take heed to these commandments.

"He therefore that despises, despises not man, but God, who has also given to us His Holy Spirit" (1 Thess.4:8 ).

We have been commanded to withdraw from brethren who walk dishonestly, from disobedient members who harden their hearts, from abominable backsliders and from incorrigible apostates who believe and preach false doctrines.

nedostic: @Frosbel,

Could you please pass your comment on the 2 verses brother Olaadegbu quoted.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."(1 Timothy 3:16)

The KJV bible version which Trinitarians hold on to dearly is the only Bible that contains this statement .

However for the benefit of doubt, God was manifest in the Flesh in my opinion means that God manifested himself humanly through Christ Jesus .

Jesus Christ was born if you remember without a human father, he carries God's divine nature and reflects God's character and heart.

Let us not forget that God is not a man, the bible says this clearly.


Consider the following verse :

"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact[b]representation[/b]of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven." - Hebrews 1:3

What does the word represent mean ?

represent/ˌrepriˈzent
Be entitled or appointed to act or speak for (someone), esp. in an official capacity.

Also Jesus Christ was full of the Holy Ghost and was always in submission to the father contray to the first Adam, this made it possible for God to express himself through Christ to the fullest.

"The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him." - John 8:29

Jesus Christ always pleased the Father and so the Father could express himself through his SON to the fullest.


Coming back to the first point, only the KJV uses this statement.

All other newer versions, that were translated from more reliable manuscripts display this verse as follows :

NASB
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness:
He who was revealed in the flesh,
Was [m]vindicated [n]in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Proclaimed among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory.


NIV
Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:

He[c] appeared in a body,[d]
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.



These are the correct translations.



I promise to address your other points sometime tomorrow.

Good Night

OLAADEGBU:

I hope you saw the commandments in the passages I quoted to you that they are not the words of men but of God.

"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother that walks disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us" (2 Thess.3:6).

As you can see that these commands are that of our Lord Jesus Christ spoken through His apostles and prophets. It will do you well to take heed to these commandments.

"He therefore that despises, despises not man, but God, who has also given to us His Holy Spirit" (1 Thess.4:8 ).

We have been commanded to withdraw from brethren who walk dishonestly, from disobedient members who harden their hearts, from abominable backsliders and from incorrigible apostates who believe and preach false doctrines.

Applying commands of God wrongly is called presumption.

I stand by my statement that the Trinity is PAGAN.

frosbel:

Applying commands of God wrongly is called presumption.

I stand by my statement that the Trinity is PAGAN.

Once my family left your church, we felt freedom from the shackles of fear , threats of curses and an everlasting torment in hell.

Thank God I am free.

God's command says:

"Whosoever transgresses, and abides not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abides in the doctrine of Christ, he has both the Father and the Son" (2 John 9).

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple" (Rom.16:17-18 ).

If the Word of the Lord said it, and I believe it, that settles it for me.

OLAADEGBU:


If the Word of the Lord said it, and I believe it, that settles it for me.

The Word of God does not say it.

OLAADEGBU:

STATEMENT: - MATHEW 10: 40

Lord Jesus was the human incarnation of the Holy Spirit. The human body of Holy Jesus is like the metallic wire, which was all over, pervaded by the Holy Spirit. Veda says ‘Antarbahischa’ which means that the Holy Spirit pervades all over the body of Human Incarnation. Wherever you touch the wire the electric shock is given. Similarly the entire human body of Holy Jesus is holy. The holiness is the nature of Holy Spirit just like the shock is the property of electricity.

As the electricity cannot be separated from the wire, the Holy Spirit cannot be separated from the Holy Jesus. So here the Holy Spirit is the Holy Jesus. Holy Jesus refers this Holy Spirit as His Father. He tells that He was sent by His father as a messenger. Though He and His father are one and the same, He speaks like this for which there is a practical reason i.e., every human being repels with another human being. A man cannot accept another man as God due to Jealousy and Egoism. Bhagavatgita says, “A man will insult Me when I come here in human form (Avajananti mam….)”. For this purpose Holy Jesus wants Himself to be called only as the messenger of the Holy Spirit by the disciples whenever He is introduced to the public. If He tells the truth the egoistic public will not hear even what He preaches and will reject Him. Therefore He is telling His disciples to introduce Him as a messenger only. Ofcourse, the disciples are really the messengers of Holy Jesus.

Holy Spirit has taken over the human body of Holy Jesus and pervaded all over the body to preach the divine knowledge to this world. The same Holy Spirit is sending the disciples for the propagation of the Divine knowledge. Both the body of Holy Jesus and the disciples are instruments of the Holy Spirit chosen for different purposes. The Holy Spirit is preaching through the body of Holy Jesus and is propagating the divine knowledge through disciples. Therefore if you respect the disciple you are respecting the Holy Spirit indirectly. Though both the instruments exist like this, the Holy Spirit is present in Jesus and is not present in the disciples.

Due to this difference the disciple is an indirect instrument and the direct instrument is Holy Jesus. The disciple propagates the divine knowledge after hearing from the Holy Jesus. Therefore when such disciple is respected, Holy Jesus is respected first and then the Holy Spirit. But among the disciples there may be some person who cannot repeat what Holy Jesus exactly preached. In such a case the Holy Spirit will take over the body of that disciple and preaches (Mathew 10: 20). Such a disciple differs from Holy Jesus because the Holy Spirit resides in that disciple for some time only where as the Holy Spirit resides in Jesus all the time.

Holy Jesus is telling that He is the messenger of the Holy Spirit and He is also telling that the disciple is His messenger. He is giving the same status to Himself and the disciple by telling like this. The reason is that some disciple may become jealous in future if He says that He Himself is the Holy Spirit where as the disciple is His messenger only. The difference in the status may bring jealousy. Therefore He is maintaining the equal status so that no devotee becomes jealous of Jesus in the future. Due to jealousy the disciple may slip from Holy Jesus.

When He says that He is only the messenger, this shows the humble and submissiveness of Holy Jesus. He wants His disciples to be humble and submissive to the Holy Spirit through out their lives. For this purpose He sets Himself as an ideal. The Holy Spirit present in the human body of Holy Jesus is the essence of true and infinite knowledge as Veda says “Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahma….” Humbleness and submissiveness are the fruits of the Divine Knowledge. Therefore the humbleness and submissiveness are the qualities of the Holy Spirit itself. This means whatever Holy Jesus speaks is the statement of the Holy Spirit only.
At Thy Lotus Feet His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace