frosbel:

Jesus Christ did not exist as a Man but as a Plan in the mind of GOD through the promise of his WORD , for the salvation of Mankind.

At the right time, this WORD was made flesh and the promise fulfilled.

Okay i know as a plan, where was HE and what was He doing before the Plan was to be executed? I need you to straightened this question before we move to the next one please

brainpulse:

Okay i know as a plan, where was HE and what was He doing before the Plan was to be executed?

Jesus Christ as a Person in bodily form did not exist before his manifestation as the Son of GOD.

frosbel:

Jesus Christ as a Person in bodily form did not exist before his manifestation as the Son of GOD.

Then he existed as what? Or was created from what to put it in simple form or what was him beform His manifestation? We have not infact answered the first question but still dancing in cycle.

brainpulse:

Then he existed as what? Or was created from what to put it in simple form or what was him beform His manifestation? We have not infact answered the first question but still dancing in cycle.

You are the one Sir, dancing in circles with your ambiguous questions.


Again , before manifestation , Jesus Christ existed in the plan of God for our salvation, he did not exist as an independent person or a second member of the trinity.

"And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." - Genesis 3:15


Note the WORD God used for Satan's nemesis ( Christ ) as a HE not ME.

frosbel:

You are the one Sir, dancing in circles with your ambiguous questions.


Again , before manifestation , Jesus Christ existed in the plan of God for our salvation, he did not exist as an independent person or a second member of the trinity.

As an Independent person..... I cant laugh again oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Independent national electorial commission. It was in your Bible that He existed as an Independent official. O God have mercy. Look at yourself just listen to what is coming out from you. This is heresy. I know you can't answer that. You cant

brainpulse:

As an Independent person..... I cant laugh again oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Independent national electorial commission. It was in your Bible that He existed as an Independent official. O God have mercy. Look at yourself just listen to what is coming out from you. This is heresy. I know you can't answer that. You cant

You can add the Trinity to the list of heresies your catholic church preaches.!!

You have not answered the question? Okay an illustration,You are a Project Manager and you have your plans. You need to execute them with Resources, Tools and equipment. You were asked, what type of resources do you need and where will you get them from.
You answered and said from my PLAN. The human resources exist in my plan and I will source for him in my plan. They have never existed before they only exist in my plan.
If you are a client will you give the Job to me?

SO from your BIBLE any revision and Version. Where was JESUS and What was He doing before GOD's and doing GOD's PLAN.

And who said this words:

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”

frosbel:

You can add the Trinity to the list of heresies your catholic church preaches.!!

I am not a catholic member I am a student under the Holyspirit studying the Word of God from the department of Born Again.

brainpulse:

I am not a catholic member I am a student under the Holyspirit studying the Word of God from the department of Born Again.

Well then join the catholic church because they started this heresy


Peace bro !

frosbel:

Well then join the catholic church because they started this heresy

Peace bro !

Even if they started it, My lecturer inspired me to know the truth

I believe there are so many things about God you can't understand through human knowledge, logic or even Biblical permutations. But when you open your heart and pray for the fresh infilling of the Holyspirit you get inspirations from the throne of Grace.
Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Dont let us depend on our own understanding.

OLAADEGBU:

Good point. That verse asserts that Jesus Christ was God in human form as we can see in the KJV below:

"Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am" -- John 8:58 The Evidence Bible.

Someone explained it like this:

"If I give you a small slice of cheese from a large block (the taste being constant throughout the whole block), and you spit out the cheese saying you hate the taste, then you reject the whole block. Jesus was God manifest in human form. If the Jews and other religious folks rejected Him, they rejected the Father also -- he who is of God hears God's words".

John corroborates this in his epistle when he wrote:

"Whosoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father, (but) he that acknowledges the Son has the Father also" (1 John 2:23).

for a teaching to have a claim of being biblical it has to flow consistently from GENESIS to Revelation.

It does not need human to force it in.

ijawkid:

What does d word of GOD say??

Does it ever talk about the holy trinity??

Imagine how"" holy"" is attached to a doctrine as false as the trinity......

I could not find the word 'holy trinity' in my bible neither could I find the word 'grandfather', should we both agree that grandfathers don't exist in the Bible?

ijawkid:
Jesus is not Yahweh....shikena....

Ola agree and be blessed.....

The trinity has turned u into sometin else....

@ john 4:24 Jesus says"" God is a spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth........""

Jesus said: Before Abraham, I AM. I AM is another way of saying Yahweh.

ijawkid:

If Jesus was the Father(Yahweh) how could he have made this statement to Jews who indeed concured with the fact that God can never be seen.....The jews fully knew that only representatives of Yahweh could be seen and felt.....as for Yahweh no one can see Him and yet live.....

This is what happens when you don't understand a concept you go on to shoot yourselves in the foot. Jesus Christ is not the Father just as the Father is not the Holy Spirit they are all co-equal and called God just as the three lines of a triange make up one figure called one (equilateral) triangle.

ijawkid:
If Jesus was God he wuld never make such statement since he was flesh and all eyes could see him...........can spirits be seen?? Can God be seen??...Jesus is not Yahweh...

John 1:18 expansiates...

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the
one who is closest to the Father's heart, has
made him known......

Okpari!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature (Colossians 1:15)

I will actually be surprised if you can comprehend the meaning of this verse.

ijawkid:
Besides just open one verse in d bible that calls the holy spirit a GOD or GOD....please show everybody.....

Because we really need the holy spirit to complete d formular...

I can open many verses that shows that the Holy Spirit is God and not a god as your organisation would want you to believe Jesus is, but will you believe if I show you?

Sweetnecta: hey Olaadegbu, Frosbel is arguing against trinity in a thread near you.

he says neither Jesus nor Holy spirit is God.

Methinks frosbel is confused and he is confusing others who are blindly following him.

Sweetnecta: @Frosbel: 3 Gods, 3 persons. Is this not Trinity that Olaadegbu is talking about that you are at the same time saying does not exist? As much as I say Olaadegbu is wrong. He has something better than you in character He is consistent. He stands on principle, though deficient. You on the other hand stands on nothing. You criticized Trinity yet you are using 3 God persons to argue with me.

Can you run a serious computer program on one hand saying God is Yahweh and there is no other God and Jesus and Holy Spirit are Gods in addition and let me see how you come out?

Even though you can't understand the concept of the trinity you at least could see the inconsistencies in the anti trinitarians who are speaking from both sides of their mouths. Accept Jesus Christ as the way, the truth and the life and God will open your eyes to the truth that will make you free.

dattaswami:

There are actually only 2 entities.

1. Heavenly Father or Absolute God who is unimaginable and invisible

2. Son of God ( a devoted soul of God whome to which God wish to enter for coming to this world in human form)

Holyspirit can be considered as power of GOd or God in a spirit form.


The absolute God is unimaginable. We cannot imagine Him or see Him. He is beyond our comprehension. He is beyond the worldly logic. Such GOD created this world for His entertainment. The creation is only His dream. Thus creation is His imagination. The creation is negligible or nothing compared to God or almost nil or only God is said to be truly existing or THE TRUTH.

Such God enters into His own creation (own imagination) by selecting the most suitable soul existing in the creation known as Son of God to give His presence to us, preach, and uplift us through divine knowledge. He is known as Human Incarnation and we can see Him, touch Him, co-live with Him and clear all our doubts. Whoever see Son of God has seen the invisible God existing in Him. This is the only way to see and serve the unimaginable God.

God is impartial and comes to this world in human form in every human generation to preach the divine knowledge here on this earth. He is here only.

This verse in Isaiah 48:16 explains it all:

Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God and His Spirit, hath sent me.

The holy Trinity consists of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

frosbel:


"He was chosen before the creation of the world , but was revealed in these last times for your sake." - 1 Peter 1:20

God through his WORD had chosen Christ for our salvation even more he came in person to die for our sins.


So before Abraham I am , is a valid representation of fact. And by the way God's name is not I AM , it is Yahweh.


Just as God's word says he chose us before the foundation of the world.


"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love" - Ephesians 1:4

So if we say Christ in person pre-existed before the foundation of the world that means you and I also pre-existed before the foundation of the world following your logic.

Are you saying that Christ in person didn't exist before the foundation of the world?

OLAADEGBU:

Methinks frosbel is confused and he is confusing others who are blindly following him.

You believe in the creeds of an apostate church , while I hold on to the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You say GOD is three, I say he is ONE, even Jesus says he is ONE, the Jews say he is ONE , but you seem to know better.

Matthew 4:10 - Thou shalt worship the Lord Thy God and HIM only shalt thou serve.
Matthew 19:17 - There is none good but ONE, THAT IS, GOD. This Jesus said as rebuke.
Mark 12:29 - The first of all commandments is, Hear 0 Israel; THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD.
Mark 12:32 - None other, but HE.

Stop following church doctrine and creeds, follow JESUS .

OLAADEGBU:

Are you saying that Christ in person didn't exist before the foundation of the world?

Jesus Christ existed as a golden plan in the ultimate will of GOD to redeem mankind and restore creation but NOT as a being.

Kindly help me with this verse and tell me :

1. How many persons are present

2. which one is GOD



As I looked,

“thrones were set in place,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.
10 A river of fire was flowing,
coming out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him
The court was seated,
and the books were opened.
11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, [a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and [b]was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him.[/b] His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.



Is it not so clear that we have :

1. GOD
2. Son of MAN ( Christ )



And was Christ not led into the presence of Almighty Yahweh ?

Also where was the 3rd person of the trinity during this whole event, please tell us .

frosbel:


Jesus Christ existed as a golden plan in the ultimate will of GOD to redeem mankind and restore creation but NOT as a being.

In other words you are saying that Jesus Christ did not exist just as we didn't exist before the foundation of the world.

"But thou, Beth-lehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose going forth have been from of old, from everlasting (Micah 5:2).

What does this verse say about Jesus Christ's existence?

frosbel:


Jesus Christ existed as a golden plan in the ultimate will of GOD to redeem mankind and restore creation but NOT as a being.

dont push it,

this is not absolutely a bible teaching.

That there was a plan for Jesus to come to earth as a human does not mean that he did not exist befor coming to earth.

The book of micah 5:2
that foretold the coming of the masaiah said that his Origin is from old.

Peace

truthislight:

dont push it,

this is not absolutely a bible teaching.

That there was a plan for Jesus to come to earth as a human does not mean that he did not exist befor coming to earth.

The book of micah 5:2
that foretold the coming of the masaiah said that his Origin is from old.

Peace

Don't even start telling me that Jesus existed as angel Micheal from ancient times


Read the below from a brother which makes perfect sense :


Micah 5:2
But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times. (NIV)

1. “Origins” literally signifies a “going out,” hence a beginning or birth, and thus the verse is saying that the birth of the Messiah has been determined, or appointed, from everlasting. In contrast to the Messiah who had an origin, the true God is without origin.

2. The ancient Jews read this verse and realized that it spoke of the birth and birthplace of the Messiah. One of the few things the Jews at the time of Jesus did understand about the Messiah was that he would be born in Bethlehem (Matt. 2:3-6). Yet of the Jews who read, studied, and understood the verse, there is no record that any of them concluded from the wording that Jesus had to be “God incarnate.”

3. The context of Micah makes it clear that the “ruler” from Bethlehem will not be God. This ruler will be born, and have “brothers.” No Jew ever thought God could be born, and the thought of the Creator of the Heavens and earth having brothers was absurd to them. These verses are speaking of God’s anointed king, and the Word declares, not that this ruler will be God, but rather that Yahweh will be “his God” (v. 4). Thus, this text of Micah is clear: a child will be born in Bethlehem and the Israelites will be his brothers, but he will grow up to deliver and rule the nation and stand in the strength of Yahweh his God.

frosbel: Kindly help me with this verse and tell me :

1. How many persons are present

2. which one is GOD



As I looked,

“thrones were set in place,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.
10 A river of fire was flowing,
coming out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him
The court was seated,
and the books were opened.
11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, [a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and [b]was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him.[/b] His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.



Is it not so clear that we have :

1. GOD
2. Son of MAN ( Christ )



And was Christ not led into the presence of Almighty Yahweh ?

Also where was the 3rd person of the trinity during this whole event, please tell us .

God the Father and the Son of Man, but compare the description of the Father (Ancient of Days) with that of the Son (Son of Man) and see what you will come up with:

"And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters" (Rev. 1:13-15).

Don't you think this phenomenon emphasises the doctrine of the Trinity, that is, one God in three persons, but not three Gods?

OLAADEGBU:

God the Father and the Son of Man, but compare the description of the Father (Ancient of Days) with that of the Son (Son of Man) and see what you will come up with:

"And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters" (Rev. 1:13-15).

Don't you think this phenomenon emphasises the doctrine of the Trinity, that is, one God in three persons, but not three Gods?

But how can it be ?

All through Daniel and the book of Revelations a clear dictinction is made between Yahweh and Jesus Chirst.


If I were to take your logic , the following verse :

“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, [a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power ; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.



could be interpreted as :


“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was GOD , [a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached GOD and was led into his presence. 14 GOD was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Surely this does not make sense to you right ? How can God give power and authority to himself , something which he already possesses ?


Please don't start , you got my brain spinning, I better get back to work

frosbel:

But how can it be ?

All through Daniel and the book of Revelations a clear dictinction is made between Yahweh and Jesus Chirst.


If I were to take your logic , the following verse :

“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, [a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power ; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.



could be interpreted as :


“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was GOD , [a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached GOD and was led into his presence. 14 GOD was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Surely this does not make sense to you right ? How can God give power and authority to himself , something which he already possesses ?


Please don't start , you got my brain spinning, I better get back to work

How can it be? This reminds me of a bible character that asked the same question, trying to work out the workings of God. Check out the following verses in the same Revelation chapter 1 and tell me who you think is speaking.

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty . . . Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia . . . " (Rev. 1:8, 11).

guys, would it have helped if the prophets of old in the bible thought men so? or did they? i mean if Jesus was there from the begining...

OLAADEGBU:

How can it be? This reminds me of a bible character that asked the same question, trying to work out the workings of God. Check out the following verses in the same Revelation chapter 1 and tell me who you think is speaking.

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty . . . Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia . . . " (Rev. 1:8, 11).

Wow !!!


This is your answer


God asked us to reason together with him, not just accept anything that is put out there as fact !


"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. ................" - Isaiah 1:18a

Isaiah 41:21 "Present your case," says the LORD. "Set forth your arguments," says Jacob's King.


Even the Bereans checked up Paul's doctrines.


Acts 17:11 NIV
New International Version
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.



But according to you and deeperlife , we should not check it up, we should just accept it because the church leaders said it , no ?


The church leaders just like the pope are infallible , they cannot err in doctrine , no ?


Are we not then following the commands of men, if we refuse to validate the claims of our creeds and church doctrines against biblical truth ?

"teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." - Matthew 15:9b

ifeness:


You never cease to amaze me with the fact that you think you know the bible more than anyone else.I was born into a so called born again family,i have been there and done all that. As a kid in the deepelife bible children church at the age of 8 i asked a lot of questions which were mostly unanswered by the dump pastors we had. I even pooped a question at KUMUYI at a 1995 youth programmed. I asked him why God hated Esau in the bible and why jacob the corn artist had to take his blessings? He told me God is God and we should not question him. That did not go down well with me. I then realized that christians worship this so called God out of fear. I dont fear anyone but respect. It is clear you are scared and you know what? "A coward and fearful person dies several times before their death"

I know that most Christians believe that God is a good and loving god, and wants people to do good things. I believe that most people want to do good things and behave morally. I also believe that many Christians haven’t really read the Bible, or just read certain passages in church. This is understandable, as the Bible is hard to read due to its archaic language and obscure references. Also many priests and preachers don’t like to read certain passages in the Bible because they present a message of hate not love.

Your bible God cannot take my breath away because he doesn't exist. In fact,he should kill me now if he really exists!!!

You sound bitter. I can tell from the way you speak you feel disappointed with God. If there are questions you can't answer, being an atheist doesn't answer them. The mere fact that you're alive shows that God is good to you.
If you've been in Deeper Life you should have encountered miracles. I have encountered certain phenoma which tell me that there's God. Ask your self how did the world come to existence? By electromagnetic force? I laugh.
If you seek God you will find him. You just can't sit down, fold your arms and say God does not exist.
If you want to know whether God exists, at night shut your windom put off your light and tell God to prove that he's God to you. Let's see if you're man enough.

frosbel:

Don't even start telling me that Jesus existed as angel Micheal from ancient times


Read the below from a brother which makes perfect sense :


Micah 5:2
But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times. (NIV)

1. “Origins” literally signifies a “going out,” hence a beginning or birth, and thus the verse is saying that the birth of the Messiah has been determined, or appointed, from everlasting. In contrast to the Messiah who had an origin, the true God is without origin.

2. The ancient Jews read this verse and realized that it spoke of the birth and birthplace of the Messiah. One of the few things the Jews at the time of Jesus did understand about the Messiah was that he would be born in Bethlehem (Matt. 2:3-6). Yet of the Jews who read, studied, and understood the verse, there is no record that any of them concluded from the wording that Jesus had to be “God incarnate.”

3. The context of Micah makes it clear that the “ruler” from Bethlehem will not be God. This ruler will be born, and have “brothers.” No Jew ever thought God could be born, and the thought of the Creator of the Heavens and earth having brothers was absurd to them. These verses are speaking of God’s anointed king, and the Word declares, not that this ruler will be God, but rather that Yahweh will be “his God” (v. 4). Thus, this text of Micah is clear: a child will be born in Bethlehem and the Israelites will be his brothers, but he will grow up to deliver and rule the nation and stand in the strength of Yahweh his God.

its like you completely got me wrong.

I have not said that Jesus is Yahweh, i only pointed out that he had existed befor coming to earth, and that is what the bible says.

truthislight:

its like you completely got me wrong.

I have not said that Jesus is Yahweh, i only pointed out that he had existed befor coming to earth, and that is what the bible says.

I know.

My understanding of your position is that Jesus was an angel , which is something I disagree with.

Let us use the other article to discuss.

Thank You