obadiah777: keep fulfilling prophesy Reyginus.

okay o, u win

Reyginus: okay o, u win

Christ wins. I am but a lowly servant disseminating that sound doctrine

I might write about other things later, but these are what bother me most:

obadiah777: Heaven is a domicile in your spirit. you go into heaven in your spirit not in your physical environment. once you are at the level of spirituality that the lord requires, he will open the door of your spirit into heaven.

and

obadiah777: ITS INSTRUCTIONS. LIKE, DO NOT KILL, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT JUDGE, DO NOT COVET ETC ETC. these are instructions on how to get closer to the lord. thats that verse you posted. however the other verse i posted is for when you are now with the lord because now you are operating from a godly objective spirit. i am just reiterating. Glad you got it.

These go against EVERYTHING the Bible teaches about salvation. You can't get to a "level" of spirituality that the Lord requires -- He is perfect and He requires perfection, and we all have already failed, we can't undo all the evil we did in our lives. And we can't even do good things!! Just look at Isaiah 64:6:

But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away.

We're so wicked that even our best efforts are just filthy rags in God's eyes!

God's word is very clear about it: we all are in desperate need for God's grace and mercy, we're lost without it.

Let's read Ephesians 2:8-9:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

We didn't get close to God through the things we did or didn't do. We couldn't, even our best actions are filthy!! But we are saved! But we're saved through faith. It's a gift, it's not something we achieved, it's not what we did or did not do. You won't stand up in front of God and say, "Here I am, I reached what you required, I deserve to receive my reward from you." No way! You won't boast about how good you were and how much awesome things you did, you will only bow down before God in thankfulness for the amazing grace that He showed, letting his Son suffer in our place. We never deserved any of it, we deserved death.

But when we claim we deserve God's rewards, heaven, or just anything, we're lost. God lifts up the humble, but He resists the proud. And that's why I'm writing. Because, if obadiah777 or anybody else believes that he can get accepted by God because he does good things and doesn't do bad things, he's lost. Only by accepting that I'm bad and God is good can I go and ask for His grace, and His grace is the only way to Him.

Paul continues in verse 10:

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

So yes, once we're saved, we have the awesome privilege that we can walk in the good deeds that God prepared for us to walk in. We will do good things. Not to get to God, but because we're already there with Him. Can you see it? We can't come to God through doing good things because before He takes us in we can't even do anything good! But now, as part of His family, we are invited to take part in His good work! He made us each a path that we can walk in, full of treasures, good things we can do to bring glory to Him! Just think about it, can anything be a greater honor than that? Could anything move us to a deeper humility...

tiberius84: I might write about other things later, but these are what bother me most:



and



These go against EVERYTHING the Bible teaches about salvation. You can't get to a "level" of spirituality that the Lord requires -- He is perfect and He requires perfection, and we all have already failed, we can't undo all the evil we did in our lives. And we can't even do good things!! Just look at Isaiah 64:6:


We're so wicked that even our best efforts are just filthy rags in God's eyes!

God's word is very clear about it: we all are in desperate need for God's grace and mercy, we're lost without it.

Let's read Ephesians 2:8-9:


We didn't get close to God through the things we did or didn't do. We couldn't, even our best actions are filthy!! But we are saved! But we're saved through faith. It's a gift, it's not something we achieved, it's not what we did or did not do. You won't stand up in front of God and say, "Here I am, I reached what you required, I deserve to receive my reward from you." No way! You won't boast about how good you were and how much awesome things you did, you will only bow down before God in thankfulness for the amazing grace that He showed, letting his Son suffer in our place. We never deserved any of it, we deserved death.

But when we claim we deserve God's rewards, heaven, or just anything, we're lost. God lifts up the humble, but He resists the proud. And that's why I'm writing. Because, if obadiah777 or anybody else believes that he can get accepted by God because he does good things and doesn't do bad things, he's lost. Only by accepting that I'm bad and God is good can I go and ask for His grace, and His grace is the only way to Him.

Paul continues in verse 10:


So yes, once we're saved, we have the awesome privilege that we can walk in the good deeds that God prepared for us to walk in. We will do good things. Not to get to God, but because we're already there with Him. Can you see it? We can't come to God through doing good things because before He takes us in we can't even do anything good! But now, as part of His family, we are invited to take part in His good work! He made us each a path that we can walk in, full of treasures, good things we can do to bring glory to Him! Just think about it, can anything be a greater honor than that? Could anything move us to a deeper humility...

CHURCH DOCTRINE. YOU HAVE WRITTEN A LOAD OF BOLLOCKS. WHAT ARE YOU SAVED FROM ?

obadiah777: CHURCH DOCTRINE. YOU HAVE WRITTEN A LOAD OF BOLLOCKS. WHAT ARE YOU SAVED FROM ?

It's doctrine for good reason. I wonder why you even refer to the Bible if you reject simple truth like the quote from Ephesians 2.

I'm saved from God's wrath that comes on those who reject His grace. He hates evil, and we are born evil (and our actions prove it.)
He didn't have to provide us a way from under righteous judgment, yet He did, and He did it on His own expense.
All He's asking for is that we accept that we're at fault, and turn to Him for grace.
But even this first step is His work in us, because, out of our evil nature, we would never do such a thing as accepting we're bad.

Question: Do you think you are, or you can ever get, good enough for God, out of your own strength?

tiberius84:

It's doctrine for good reason. I wonder why you even refer to the Bible if you reject simple truth like the quote from Ephesians 2.

I'm saved from God's wrath that comes on those who reject His grace. He hates evil, and we are born evil (and our actions prove it.)
He didn't have to provide us a way from under righteous judgment, yet He did, and He did it on His own expense.
All He's asking for is that we accept that we're at fault, and turn to Him for grace.
But even this first step is His work in us, because, out of our evil nature, we would never do such a thing as accepting we're bad.

Question: Do you think you are, or you can ever get, good enough for God, out of your own strength?

you do know that most of pauls letters were not to the world at large but to the elect men of Israel ? the elect men of israel were saved by grace. the rest of us have to work out our own salvation. we only get permanently saved under 2 conditions

1-while we are in the truth, christ returns

2-if we die in the truth, then whenever we reincarnate, we reincarnate back spiritually alive and will be spiritually alive forever. these are the only 2 ways for the rest of us to be saved forever. only the elect got saved by grace.

revelation 14 vs 13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them." did you read that ? the only way the rest of us are getting saved permanently is if we die in the lord or if christ comes while we are still in the faith.

thats one thing about alot of church doctrine, they conveniently forget the parts of the new testament letters where it says TO THE BRETHREN WITH ME IN CORINTH, OR ANTIOCH ETC ETC. THOSE LETTERS ARE NOT FOR THE WORLD AT LARGE WHEN IT COMES TO SALVATION. THOSE ARE FOR THE ELECT.

FOR EXAMPLE. SOME GUYS WAS USING GALATIANS 1 VS 4 TO SAY THAT WE ARE ALL SAVED. I TOLD HIM LOOK AT GALATIANS 1 VS 2. THATS WHO IS SAVED. THE BRETHREN THAT WAS WITH THEM. NOT THE WHOLE WORLD. THE NEW TESTAMENT IS PAULS LETTERS TO SPECIFIC PEOPLE.

GALATIANS CHAPTER 1 VS 1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead ) 2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia: 3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

obadiah777: you do know that most of pauls letters were not to the world at large but to the elect men of Israel ? the elect men of israel were saved by grace. the rest of us have to work out our own salvation. we only get permanently saved under 2 conditions

Ephesus is in modern-day Turkey. Not many Jews there, sorry. Rome? Corinth? Or the rest? He was mostly ministering among the Gentiles, even though his heart was longing for the Jews. When he's talking about brethren, it's about the believers, not the Jews. Just look up the names he mentions. Hardly any Jewish names.

I can't imagine how one would even start becoming good enough...
How could you undo the things you already did?
God can't just ignore them, He's just.

"None of them can by any means redeem his brother,
Nor give to God a ransom for him—
For the redemption of their souls is costly,
And it shall cease forever" – Psalm 49:7-8

But I didn't come here to argue with you, I just wanted to post a big fat warning against this heresy that you can get saved by your good works.

tiberius84:

Ephesus is in modern-day Turkey. Not many Jews there, sorry. Rome? Corinth? Or the rest? He was mostly ministering among the Gentiles, even though his heart was longing for the Jews. When he's talking about brethren, it's about the believers, not the Jews. Just look up the names he mentions. Hardly any Jewish names.

I can't imagine how one would even start becoming good enough...
How could you undo the things you already did?
God can't just ignore them, He's just.

"None of them can by any means redeem his brother,
Nor give to God a ransom for him—
For the redemption of their souls is costly,
And it shall cease forever" – Psalm 49:7-8

But I didn't come here to argue with you, I just wanted to post a big fat warning against this heresy that you can get saved by your good works.

WHATS HERESY IS YOU THINKING YOU ARE SAVED. SAVED FROM WHAT ? THE ONLY PEOPLE SAVED ARE THOSE WHO DIE IN THE LORD AND THOSE IN THE LORD WHEN CHRIST RETURNS. WHATEVER SIN YOU COMMIT, YOU WILL PAY FOR IT GALATIANS 6 VS 7. YOU ARE NOT SAVED. ONLY THOSE WHO ARE PERMANENTLY SPIRITUALLY RESSURECTED ARE SAVED. AS WE SPEAK TODAY THOSE WILL BE THE FIRST FRUITS AND THEN WHOMEVER HAS DIED IN THE LORD FROM THE YEAR 1 AD.

Romans 5:6-9:

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

There. From wrath. Through Christ. And all this written to the Romans, most of them Gentiles.
Just look at the list of names in the last chapter. There are only handful of people where he says "my countrymen," all the rest are non-Jews.

In Genesis 12, when God blesses Abram, He says: "in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."
When Jesus ascends to heaven he commands His disciples to make disciples of all nations.

Romans 9 tells about how God decided to make the Gentiles as the Jews alike:

... that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Then he quotes from Hoseah! "I will call them My people, who were not My people, and her beloved, who was not beloved."
Colossians 3:11: "... where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all."

The whole book of Acts is about how the church shifted from Jewish to mostly Gentile (more non-Jews turned to the way, as they called it, than Jews, that's how.)
It all started with Peter's vision, then later Barnabas and Paul was sent out to the nations from Antioch.

It's all so very clear that there is no difference between Jewish believers in Christ and other believers in Christ.
Yes, there is a completely different treatment of the nation Israel, and yes, they will again have a huge part in history, apart from the church.
But today, in this time of grace, we believers of Christ are the same. Because what is believing in Christ if not looking up on Him as our savior?
You asked me what to be saved from. I think I did give you an answer with the first quote, from Romans 5.

Please, I beg you, just put aside everything and read what the the Bible says. It's so clear about these things.

tiberius84: Romans 5:6-9:


There. From wrath. Through Christ. And all this written to the Romans, most of them Gentiles.
Just look at the list of names in the last chapter. There are only handful of people where he says "my countrymen," all the rest are non-Jews.

In Genesis 12, when God blesses Abram, He says: "in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."
When Jesus ascends to heaven he commands His disciples to make disciples of all nations.

Romans 9 tells about how God decided to make the Gentiles as the Jews alike:


Then he quotes from Hoseah! "I will call them My people, who were not My people, and her beloved, who was not beloved."
Colossians 3:11: "... where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all."

The whole book of Acts is about how the church shifted from Jewish to mostly Gentile (more non-Jews turned to the way, as they called it, than Jews, that's how.)
It all started with Peter's vision, then later Barnabas and Paul was sent out to the nations from Antioch.

It's all so very clear that there is no difference between Jewish believers in Christ and other believers in Christ.
Yes, there is a completely different treatment of the nation Israel, and yes, they will again have a huge part in history, apart from the church.
But today, in this time of grace, we believers of Christ are the same. Because what is believing in Christ if not looking up on Him as our savior?
You asked me what to be saved from. I think I did give you an answer with the first quote, from Romans 5.

Please, I beg you, just put aside everything and read what the the Bible says. It's so clear about these things.

NOW YOU ARE JUST GOING OFF TOPIC. NO ONE SAID THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW AND GENTILES. JEWS AND GENTILES GOT UNITED UNDER THE LAW IN EPHESIANS 2 VS 14. LISTEN, YOU GOT THAT CHURCH DOCTRINE. TIME TO RELEARN. READ THE BIBLE ( BOTH NEW AND OLD TESTAMENT CUZ I CAN SEE YOU ARE A NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIAN )

obadiah777: REVELATION 19 VS 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. SO GOSHEN SERIALLINK JOAGBAJE FROSBEL IJAWKID OLADEGBU AND ALL THE CHRISTIANS ON NAIRALAND I HOPE YALL READY TO FIGHT BRITAIN AND THE EUROZONE AND CHINA AND ALL THE OTHER WORLD ARMY. YALL BETTER START YALL PUSH-UPS AND WEIGHT-LIFTING AND KARATE LESSONS. WE HAVE A HUGE TASK AHEAD OF US. OF COURSE THE MIGHT OF THE WORLD ARMY WOULD HAVE BEEN SERIOUSLY REDUCED BY ARMAGEDDON SO OUR TASK WILL BE EASY SOMEWHAT.

Lmao.....chei u won't kill me with laugh....

I'm dumbelling already...getting ready for the war....hope ur strapped mate??

So is it only the "elect man of Israel" who get saved by grace? I can see no way you can prove such a weird doctrine from scripture, other than putting together a few Bible verses taken out of context.

But I give up. At least others will get a chance to see it better where your doctrine is heretic.

Here are some things about your first post that I wrote before, but didn't post because they are just funny small things.

obadiah777: Heaven is a domicile in your spirit. you go into heaven in your spirit not in your physical environment. once you are at the level of spirituality that the lord requires, he will open the door of your spirit into heaven. its within you LUKE 17 VS 20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: VS 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you

The Pharisees idea of the Messiah was a military ruler who would drive out the Romans from Palestine and establish a new Jewish kingdom. Jesus simply told them his kingdom is not about that, it's not something people will be able to point at, his kingdom is the *people* following him, not some military power. He wasn't talking about weird spiritual doors and the like.

obadiah777: LUKE 17 VS 34-37 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. YOU ARE BEING RECRUITED TO BE AN EAGLE THAT WILL FEED ON THE SPIRITUALLY DEAD. THAT WILL DEFEAT THE DEAD OF THE WORLD. WITH YOU WILL THE LORD BREAK THE WICKED RULERS OF THE WORLD. THIS IS RAPTURE. YOU ARE SELECTED FOR THE LORDS ARMY.

"Where the eagles, there is the body." That's not some weird spiritual truth, that was just a common way of saying "look for the signs, they are clear." Because, if you see the eagles (vultures, really) flying around, you can expect a dead body somewhere down on the earth. They were asking Jesus "Where, Lord?" and he basically said: "open your eyes, and you'll see."

But off I go.

ijawkid:

Lmao.....chei u won't kill me with laugh....

I'm dumbelling already...getting ready for the war....hope ur strapped mate??

i stay strapped chief, with the two edged sword that is ( hebrews 4 vs 12 )

tiberius84: So is it only the "elect man of Israel" who get saved by grace? I can see no way you can prove such a weird doctrine from scripture, other than putting together a few Bible verses taken out of context.

But I give up. At least others will get a chance to see it better where your doctrine is heretic.

Here are some things about your first post that I wrote before, but didn't post because they are just funny small things.



The Pharisees idea of the Messiah was a military ruler who would drive out the Romans from Palestine and establish a new Jewish kingdom. Jesus simply told them his kingdom is not about that, it's not something people will be able to point at, his kingdom is the *people* following him, not some military power. He wasn't talking about weird spiritual doors and the like.



"Where the eagles, there is the body." That's not some weird spiritual truth, that was just a common way of saying "look for the signs, they are clear." Because, if you see the eagles (vultures, really) flying around, you can expect a dead body somewhere down on the earth. They were asking Jesus "Where, Lord?" and he basically said: "open your eyes, and you'll see."

But off I go.

try to read the old testament sometime. this is the meat of the bible. the new testament is mostly letters to specific people. thats why you err.

First of all, sorry for my previous impatience.

Could you elaborate on your general doctrine a little bit, because I'm not sure I get all the meaning behind some of the expressions you use. I realize it, for example, that you refer to "church doctrine" in a rather negative sense, as if the church was something bad and lost or misled. I'm not sure what you mean by "New Testament Christian," and what are the alternatives (considering Christianity is tied to Christ's coming, and that's of course in the New Testament / Covenant – I can't see the possibility of this covenant with Christ before His death.)

And in general, what is your point on God's idea/plan/purpose with mankind in general, with Israel in particular, why Jesus came and died (the necessity for it, the reasons behind it, the results thereof), the categories of people today (you seem to refer "the elect of Israel" as a separate category, then Christians, then the unbelievers; but correct me if I'm wrong.) Or what is "spiritually resurrected" or "dying in the Lord/Christ." Where can we learn about the spiritual level God demands from us and what would make us know we reached it (or getting closer.) And similar things that you find important. It would make it much easier for me to understand where you're coming from.

And, especially, why do you things Paul's (and others') letters from the New Testament were only to particular groups of people? We can read it in some of them that Paul tells them to distribute it to some other churches, and we know it from history that all the early Christian churches knew about these letters and treated them as God's word (that's how they ended up being collected and canonized.)

Many thanks.

tiberius84: First of all, sorry for my previous impatience.

Could you elaborate on your general doctrine a little bit, because I'm not sure I get all the meaning behind some of the expressions you use. I realize it, for example, that you refer to "church doctrine" in a rather negative sense, as if the church was something bad and lost or misled. I'm not sure what you mean by "New Testament Christian," and what are the alternatives (considering Christianity is tied to Christ's coming, and that's of course in the New Testament / Covenant – I can't see the possibility of this covenant with Christ before His death.)

And in general, what is your point on God's idea/plan/purpose with mankind in general, with Israel in particular, why Jesus came and died (the necessity for it, the reasons behind it, the results thereof), the categories of people today (you seem to refer "the elect of Israel" as a separate category, then Christians, then the unbelievers; but correct me if I'm wrong.) Or what is "spiritually resurrected" or "dying in the Lord/Christ." Where can we learn about the spiritual level God demands from us and what would make us know we reached it (or getting closer.) And similar things that you find important. It would make it much easier for me to understand where you're coming from.

And, especially, why do you things Paul's (and others') letters from the New Testament were only to particular groups of people? We can read it in some of them that Paul tells them to distribute it to some other churches, and we know it from history that all the early Christian churches knew about these letters and treated them as God's word (that's how they ended up being collected and canonized.)

Many thanks.

geezz i would have to write a book with all these questions. in a nutshell God created man. man fell. man gets detached from God. this man who fell from grace was the one who was given the laws statutes and commandments ( psalms 147 vs 19 and 20 ). after the flood new races of people are formed from ham shem and japeth. these new races of people are gentiles because they dont have the laws. so now the world is divided into 2 factions > jews and gentiles. gentiles are used by God to discipline the jews. after serious discipline by slavery and all kinds of unimaginable violence the lord picks the ones who are still dedicated and committed to the word and who have not veered into worshipping idols of the gentiles ( hosea 5 vs 15 ) ( revelation 14 vs 4 ). the lord is the master numerologist. he works with numbers. he wants 144,000. these will be his righteous rulers in the kingdom he will set up after this gentile kingdom runs its course. he wants the 144,000 to have everlasting salvation so he sends christ to die for them. reason for this is that it would take a long time for 144,000 righteous people to physically die before gaining permanent salvation ( because the only way you are SAVED is if you die in christ ( revelation 14 vs 13 )). now that he has sealed the leaders of his righteous kingdom, now it is time to start sealing the inhabitants. the inhabitants get sealed only if they die in christ ( revelation 14 vs 13 ). as such you are not saved until you die physically in christ. a lot of people are saved and then backslide etc etc. or some people say they are saved and commit all kinds of unimaginable sin. as such only he who makes it to the end ( death bed ) is saved ( revelation 14 vs 13 ). now once you die as a saved person ? you are saved forever. in your reincarnated lives you will return to earth as saved. you will never ever ever go back to being not saved again. this is what is meant by SAVED. you only get saved when you reach the finishing point. hope that all makes sense.

geezz i would have to write a book with all these questions. in a nutshell God created man. man fell. man gets detached from God.

Agreed.

this man who fell from grace was the one who was given the laws statutes and commandments ( psalms 147 vs 19 and 20 ).

Actually, those verses talk about Jacob, not Adam (who fell.) In fact, Jacob, also known as the man Israel, is used in a metaphorical sense, referring to the whole nation. The man who did get the law was Moses, about 500 years after Jacob lived.

after the flood new races of people are formed from ham shem and japeth. these new races of people are gentiles because they dont have the laws.

The law, as I stated above, based on the books of Genesis and Exodus, was given much after the flood. In fact, Shem is the ancestor of Abraham, who's the father of Isaac, who's the father of Jacob whom Psalm 147 refers to. (Check out Genesis 11:10-26 for the genealogy of Abraham from Shem.)

so now the world is divided into 2 factions > jews and gentiles. gentiles are used by God to discipline the jews. after serious discipline by slavery and all kinds of unimaginable violence the lord picks the ones who are still dedicated and committed to the word and who have not veered into worshipping idols of the gentiles ( hosea 5 vs 15 ) ( revelation 14 vs 4 ).the lord is the master numerologist. he works with numbers. he wants 144,000. these will be his righteous rulers in the kingdom he will set up after this gentile kingdom runs its course. he wants the 144,000 to have everlasting salvation so he sends christ to die for them.

By now I know that you reject the idea that Christ died for everyone, so I'm not surprised. Of course, you have to throw out most of the New Testament for that (saying it was only for certain groups, when in fact it was talking in very general terms.)

I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. (Romans 1:16)
Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4)
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. (1 John 5:1)

reason for this is that it would take a long time for 144,000 righteous people to physically die before gaining permanent salvation

Sorry, but to me it seems like you're saying the situation sort of got out of hand, so God had to figure out some workaround real quick.

( because the only way you are SAVED is if you die in christ ( revelation 14 vs 13 )). now that he has sealed the leaders of his righteous kingdom, now it is time to start sealing the inhabitants. the inhabitants get sealed only if they die in christ ( revelation 14 vs 13 ). as such you are not saved until you die physically in christ. a lot of people are saved and then backslide etc etc. or some people say they are saved and commit all kinds of unimaginable sin.

I think the problem is that you think of it as if it depended on our capabilities whether we can make it. But of course, you base it on works, not on grace. Now, of course we can't make it, we are weak. But, it does not depend on our ability to hold on to Christ, it depends on HIS ability to hold on to us.

Besides, I already quoted you something about being saved:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

It's talking about having been saved (by grace!) as something that has already happened. And yes, you can come with how those letters are not applicable to us, but so far you failed to come up with any valid explanation for the why. To me (and the entire Christian world) it is clear that they were written to not a select few, but the whole (growing) community.

as such only he who makes it to the end ( death bed ) is saved ( revelation 14 vs 13 ). now once you die as a saved person ? you are saved forever. in your reincarnated lives you will return to earth as saved. you will never ever ever go back to being not saved again. this is what is meant by SAVED. you only get saved when you reach the finishing point. hope that all makes sense.

Sorry, it doesn't. The Bible never mentions anything like we would come back / reincarnate / anything along those lines. Besides, point me at a person who already did it and, as such, is "saved." I assume he should be a perfect person. Yet, we've never seen such a man.

I will not have time to continue this debate, I have other things to attend to, but I ask you, even beg you, once again, please, go back to the actual text, then read what others wrote about it. Please stop judging "church doctrine" – they weren't just made up for the fun of it, instead, hundreds of people endured unimaginable suffering and gave their very lives to defend and preserve them for us. I'm sad because I know all I can expect is a three-liner all-caps response about how misled I am, but I'm still trying...