lysaa:

News Flash: the church is born of God and have overcome all criticism.

U know how we do it from back in the days to this time? We keep talking whether u like it or not. All we know is that the word never fails. This is our secret and our strength.

When a church has "overcome all criticism" then that church can no longer be said to be of God because Him that God loveth, he chasteneth.

Since when did Seun and his nairaland become God's annointed apostolic voice and instrument for chastising, purging or pruning His church? Are you trying to be of help to the Holy Spirit? I think He knows how best to do His job.

@babyosisi,

now u guys have been yapping about this money just because u heard a guy brought stolen money right? do u know what has happened after then ? of course no. Just be careful what u say cos ur words is ur own judgement.

@backslider,

"Holier than thou" is acting "hoiler than God".

@Davidylan,

Thank God u said Criticism, which i rightly said too. It means to Judge which God condemns. As long as the judgement is coming from man and not from God we move on forcefully.

This u are doing is far from chastening cos chastisement is done in love not in mockery.

Ezekiel 34:2
Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

Nahum 3:1
Woe to the bloody city! it is all full of lies and robbery; the prey departeth not;

Habakkuk 2:9
Woe to him that coveteth an evil covetousness to his house, that he may set his nest on high, that he may be delivered from the power of evil!


And Another WOE FROM GOD HIMSELF

Matthew 23:16
Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the[b] child of hell [/b]than yourselves.

@Backslider As christians, we were born Holy when we were born again and as such we must live Holy lives. However, this is not the same as living 'holier than thou' lives. I Suggest you guys(church police) go look for the pastor of one of the many Christ Embassy branches in Lagos who recieved money from the man; tell him what you have to say and hear his own side of the story so that you dont continue to heap condemnation on yourselves.

@Backslider As christians, we were born Holy when we were born again and as such we must live Holy lives. However, this is not the same as living 'holier than thou' lives. I Suggest you guys(church police) go look for the pastor of one of the many Christ Embassy branches in Lagos who recieved money from the man; tell him what you have to say and hear his own side of the story so that you dont continue to heap condemnation on yourselves.

lysaa:

@babyosisi,

now u guys have been yapping about this money just because u heard a guy brought stolen money right? do u know what has happened after then ? of course no. Just be careful what u say because your words is your own judgement.
@backslider,

"Holier than thou" is acting "hoiler than God".

@Davidylan,

Thank God u said Criticism, which i rightly said too. It means to Judge which God condemns. As long as the judgement is coming from man and not from God we move on forcefully.

This u are doing is far from chastening because chastisement is done in love not in mockery.

If the Church has returned the stolen money at it's altar to the rightful owners then post us the link and stop speaking in coded language.
I will be the first to say they have done the right thing, until then,that singular action of keeping or spending that money is not any example to emulate.

@donnie,

@Backslider             As christians, we were born Holy when we were born again and as such we must live Holy lives. However, this is not the same as living 'holier than thou' lives. I Suggest you guys(church police) go look for the pastor of one of the many Christ Embassy branches in Lagos  who recieved money from the man; tell him what you have to say and hear his own side of the story so that you don't continue to heap condemnation on yourselves.

And while we look for that Pastor, we will also like to get in touch with Oyhaks himself who wrote a commendation letter to the man.  Here is what Oyhaks wrote in the letter: "I trust you are both fine and experiencing the glory of God in a greater measure laughing your way through, "  "In your life, God will do mighty things. He will cause you to excel and lift you up so high that the world can't but take notice of you, in Jesus' name. Amen"  See http://www.thisdayonline.com/archive/2003/03/30/20030330rel01.html

I guess we have all indeed taken notice of this thief in sheep's clothing.  And for those who say Oyahks had no hand in this money, I guess you have to come up with some other lies to explain away the letter he signed adressed to the thief.

The only people who heap condemnation on themselves are those who claim white to be black and vice versa.  How can anyone try to defend this daylight robbery in the name of Christianity?!

@ donnie threatening us with God's condemnation as though this was a juju worship makes me laugh.
Christs embassy is not on trial here,I don't even know much about the Church, but the act of keeping stolen money is despicable and should be condemned by every Christian who is truly a Christian.

Please my brothers and sisters,I am beside myself in shock.
Is the situation in Nigeria so desperate that stealing can now be spiritualized amongst Christians?
If the Church in Nigeria has sunk this low,we all should be very concerned.

I heard an earful of scams and dirty deals including forgery of all kinds run by suppossed born again believers on my recent trip home.
Sad to say that Nigeria as a whole has become desensitized to certain crimes.
Bribery,cheating,favoritisms,embezzlements are no longer frowned out and some Christians are willing beneficiaries of these.

God will not change his standards to suit Nigerians.
We have to be very careful.

@TayoD

GOD BLESS YOU

May He Bless with the Blessings of The deep.

In the TRUE JESUS NAME
Amen

@babyosisi,

Is the situation in Nigeria so desperate that stealing can now be spiritualized amongst Christians?

Your statmement reminds me of what Jesus said: "If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!"  No wonder Nigeria is in such a mess.  If the church that is meant to be the light is so engrossed with corruption and the love for mammon, what hope is there for the society at large?!  It is so disgustingly frustrating!!!

That is why WE need to purge ourselves and live a holy Life and then Preach the message of true repentance

@ babyosisi,

We don't need u to tell the world when we have done the right thing or not but the Spirit of God in us communicates to whomever is ready to hear. I never knew we have Christians of your type these days, honestly. U are stretching to know the root of a matter so u will have what to say. Isn't that pathetic? Its easy to say "I am a christain" yet retain those elements of the world. The christian life is inside out not outside in. . their information is not based on what they see on the outside. depending on stories written for cheap attention, u dont know embelishment sells those stuff. 

I am not coding anything. We tell u what u should know, if it concerns u and nobody is threatening u, just simply telling u the implications of all u are doing in the name of chastisement from the Bible. Anyways, if i want to continue dragging with u, it might take forever because i have seen u guys are not ready to drop this matter. I could go on and on with u, but hey, there is a way that seems right to a man but the end of it destroys him. I understand when there is a red light sign (stop) of the spirit and a green light. U guys can keep talking this way.  

Life is spiritual and our words are spirit(pneuma) and life (or death), it depends on what u want.

lysaa:

@ babyosisi,

We don't need u to tell the world when we have done the right thing or not but the Spirit of God in us communicates to whomever is ready to hear. I never knew we have Christians of your type these days, honestly. U are stretching to know the root of a matter so u will have what to say. Isn't that pathetic? Its easy to say "I am a christain" yet retain those elements of the world. The christian life is inside out not outside in. . their information is not based on what they see on the outside. depending on stories written for cheap attention, u don't know embelishment sells those stuff.

I am not coding anything. We tell u what u should know, if it concerns u and nobody is threatening u, just simply telling u the implications of all u are doing in the name of chastisement from the Bible. Anyways, if i want to continue dragging with u, it might take forever because i have seen u guys are not ready to drop this matter. I could go on and on with u, but hey, there is a way that seems right to a man but the end of it destroys him. I understand when there is a red light sign (stop) of the spirit and a green light. U guys can keep talking this way. 

Life is spiritual and our words are spirit(pneuma) and life (or death), it depends on what u want.

My dear like I said earlier,your Church is not on trial.
The act of keeping stolen money by any "church" is.
Yes there are indeed plenty of Christians like me.
There are a zillion who would like not to be associated with theft of any kind and would promptly return any stolen property if we came into it in error and later found out it was stolen,several of them have spoken loud and clear on this thread.

All what you have written and continue to write makes absolutely no sense and to drag Christianity to it is laughable.
And for you to even attempt to use the Bible to cover it is despicable.
I ask you again,if that money was stolen from your business,would you like it returned?

@ lysaa you claim there has been other developments in the case,why are you not eager to say what it is,has the money been returned to the proper owners?

Any unbelievers reading this would shudder why a thing as elementary as stealing should be a source of argument.
The Pastor did not steal,but received money proven to be stolen,even Okija shriners and Amadioha worshippers will not keep such money.
These things should not even be mentioned amongst us as becometh saints.

Tayo D, now i feel real sorry for you. I actually thought you had some information at least from the Interview Pastor Chris granted on this matter. Now i know that all your references are made to some soft sell magazine somewhere. You do not have full info on the matter and you have passed judgement. Is it not christian to hear two sides of a story first? May God forgive you. For the purpose of those who will like to know Pastor Chris never wrote that letter. He never instructed the letter to be written. It was only after his attention was drawn to the letter that he asked his staff to look for the writer of the letter who had since explained himself. The signature was not his neither was the letter written with his knowledge or consent. The money never got to Pastor Chris or to the ministry's accounts. I have warned you guys in love to be careful but you will not listen. Like those foolish journalists you too are looking for your own share of punishment.

why are you just bringing that up now?
So was the thief lying when he said he donated the money to the Church,since you know better and agree with us that a Church should not keep stolen money,why have you been silent regarding where the money is and is not?

[b]However, Newswatch in the March 31, 2003 edition sub-titled; "Oyakhilome's Church in N39m Theft Scandal" actually brought a twist to the whole episode. The publication was able to establish that the general cashier of Sheraton Hotel who claimed responsibility for the stolen money is a leader of sort in "Christ's Embassy". During preliminary police investigations, the hotel cashier (whose name is given as Lawrence Agada) revealed that he stole the money and expended it all to meet some of the needs of the church; to support some of her numerous outreach programs and satellite branches. To mention a few among other programs that Agada supported, he gave in millions on different occasions to sponsor Christ Embassy's popular "Night of Bliss". He also donated to the regular "Prosperity Convention" which is held regionally by the most senior Pastor. Agada supported likewise various branches of the church like the Agege, Ogba, Oke-Ira, and Ashade branches in rent payment, purchases of musical instruments, and chairs.

There was no indication that the cashier used part of the stolen money for anything else apart from giving it in different forms of donations to the Church. Up till the time of this publication there has been nothing to show that the young man did anything for himself or his family out of the N39m he stole. It seems Agada is now beginning to realize that he was under some kind of a negative influence of a mysterious spirit. Something came upon him and kept pushing him to go and carry the hotel's money to the church whenever there was any call for money in the church. Elizabeth (who is Agada's wife and an administrative staff of the Church) confirmed been privy to the whole deal. She says she was worried at a point knowing the money does not belong to her husband and that one day they may be required to pay it back to the hotel. They have no business of their own beside, but she was sure 'God' was the one talking to her husband to steal the money for the Church.

He also have a commendation letter from Pastor Chris Oyakhilome (which contain some prophecies) to show for all his "generosity". In the letter of commendation the Pastor acknowledged the donation of a generator said to be valued at over N4m. Among other things stated in the letter which was signed by Oyakhilome, it reads; "I trust you are both fine and experiencing the glory of God in a greater measure laughing your way through, " The prophecy therein says; "In your life, God will do mighty things. He will cause you to excel and lift you up so high that the world can't but take notice of you, in Jesus' name. Amen". With this type of acknowledgment, commendation and prophecy from "the ultimate man of God," Agada didn't need to think twice in responding with more millions from the Hotel's coffer to meet the various demands of the Church. It is most amazing that while the man of God hoped that Agada and Elizabeth were "laughing their way through" he did not border to find out how a mere cashier was getting the millions of Naira he was laundering on the church.

The Pastor of the Ifako branch of Christ Embassy confirmed that Lawrence Agada is their right hand man in the church. Everything Agada claimed he bought for the church and all the money he donated were confirmed to be true. Most of these things were found in the premises of both the headquarters and branch churches of Christ Embassy. It is on record that Agada sponsored some of his Pastor's trips abroad some costing as much as N400,000 : 00. Despite all these, the overall leadership of the church is seeking to affirm the legitimacy and legality of all they received from Agada. It is disturbing that the Church through her legal representative is so concerned with the fact that Agada is "a mere Cell or Unit leader in the Church" and not a Pastor. The Church Lawyer also seems satisfied with the fact that from his investigations, Agada only spent about N22m on the church and not the whole N39m. These are just extracts from the shocking developments and the ungodly attitude of the Church authority in their response to the whole matter. I will advice you obtain a copy of the said Newswatch magazine for more details.[/b]

So my brother donnie,is all the above made up,if so why didn't Christ embassy sue the paper to clear it's name?
I am asking questions any reasonable person would ask.

Is this Pastor Lawrence Agada not one of the 2 pastors who used to be involved in fishing out the miraculously healed on the televised miracle show of Christ Embassy?

babyosisi:

My dear like I said earlier,your Church is not on trial.

Nobody can try a church but people can speak against a church knowingly or maybe a freudian slip. which is my point.

babyosisi:

@ lysaa you claim there has been other developments in the case,why are you not eager to say what it is,has the money been returned to the proper owners?

read my post again and don't mis-quote me.

babyosisi:

Yes there are indeed plenty of Christians like me.
There are a zillion who would like not to be associated with theft of any kind and would promptly return any stolen property if we came into it in error and later found out it was stolen,several of them have spoken loud and clear on this thread.

zillions like u i have found out now, that are peering into matters like this just to find a reason to stand on for disassociation. But at last, Donnie has done u a favor by sayin something on it, at least that should be a chill pill for u or u still want to hear more?

babyosisi:

All what you have written and continue to write makes absolutely no sense and to drag Christianity to it is laughable.
And for you to even attempt to use the Bible to cover it is despicable.
I ask you again,if that money was stolen from your business,would you like it returned?

well it makes no sense because we don't view things alike. That was why i said u should have the mind of Christ on issues before throwing out a quick judgement. yes, my posts could sound despicable,appalling or unwitty because u read them and want to analyze them like words from a novel, it definately won't make sense. let The word of God Illuminate your mind and u will see differently.

babyosisi:

Any unbelievers reading this would shudder why a thing as elementary as stealing should be a source of argument.
The Pastor did not steal,but received money proven to be stolen,even Okija shriners and Amadioha worshippers will not keep such money.
These things should not even be mentioned amongst us as becometh saints.

My point, u see how u think?. . .
U are the one causing complications here. Putting your nose where it shouldn't be. All u need to get is what can be available to u. Left for me, people like u need no explanation how the money went because its not your business. As in, not what u should busy yourself about.

babyosisi:

So my brother donnie,is all the above made up,if so why didn't Christ embassy sue the paper to clear it's name?
I am asking questions any reasonable person would ask.

simple, we are not ruled by the senses. Thats why we are not reasonable like u.

I never knew Christ embassites were superhumans.
This is all beginning to make sense.
It's now a case of we versus you!
God have mercy!!!

Is this an offshoot of Jehovah witness or the mormons?

My point, u see how u think?. . .
U are the one causing complications here. Putting your nose where it shouldn't be. All u need to get is what can be available to u. Left for me, people like u need no explanation how the money went because its not your business. As in, not what u should busy yourself about.

You can say the above and get away with it only in Nigeria.
If that hotel the money were stolen from was mine,it would be my business and you and yours would be answering that question .

well it makes no sense because we don't view things alike. That was why i said u should have the mind of Christ on issues before throwing out a quick judgement. yes, my posts could sound despicable,appalling or unwitty because u read them and want to analyze them like words from a novel, it definately won't make sense. let The word of God Illuminate your mind and u will see differently.

illuminate my mind to exalt a mere man above the words of Christ,God forbid.

zillions like u i have found out now, that are peering into matters like this just to find a reason to stand on for disassociation. But at last, Donnie has done u a favor by sayin something on it, at least that should be a chill pill for u or u still want to hear more?

I am not peering into any matters,as a matter of fact,I am not loosing a bit of sleep on this matter,donnie said the money did not reach pastor Chris,the question is did the money reach Christ embassy?did he know the money was stolen?,what did he do afterwards?
You can't tell me the papers,the hotel and this Lawrence guy made this all up.
What is wrong in answering very simple questions.
Has this man been exalted above all others that asking questions of his intergrity become an abomination?

babyosisi:

I never knew Christ embassites were superhumans.
This is all beginning to make sense.
It's now a case of we versus you!
God have mercy!!!

Is this an offshoot of Jehovah witness or the mormons?

U don't know a believer is more than a human?? we vs u is what has been onhere. and as for Jehovah witness. . yeah, lol, we witness Jehovah.

babyosisi:

You can say the above and get away with it only in Nigeria.
If that hotel the money were stolen from was mine,it would be my business and you and yours would be answering that question .
illuminate my mind to exalt a mere man above the words of Christ,God forbid.

There was police involved according to the story on ur post. What did they do about their finding? Thank God The hotel is a well known one. Ask them "How far" and if the law enforcement was bribed, how come that same source did not publish it.

pity u dont understand the illumination part of my post. can't help u girl.

If you must know,Christ embassy or your  Pastor Chris will not save you or anyone else.
Will not guarantee you a place in the Kingdom.
He must contend for his own life like the rest of us Christians.
Only Christ can save and if we both agree on that,you are my sister.

No man is above the laws of righteousness.
Straight and narrow is that way and only very few find it.
My prayers daily is that God teach me and keep me on that narrow way.
I have no earthly church or congregation to make boast of.
Anyone that calls on the name of the Lord and abhors sin is my brother and my sister
I do not know it all,I am always willing to be taught of the Holy Ghost.

On that day,there would be Methodists,Anglicans,presbyterians,deeper lifers,RCCG,Christ Embassites and several others and the only qualifying factor would be the lives we lived here not whose tutelage we were under.
I want to be in that number,that is most important to me not what your little insignificant Church(in the grand scheme of things) did with 39 million stolen naira.

There was police involved according to the story on your post. What did they do about their finding? Thank God The hotel is a well known one. Ask them "How far" and if the law enforcement was bribed, how come that same source did not publish it.

pity u don't understand the illumination part of my post. can't help u girl.

tell us since you are in the know.What did the police do?
Did pastor Chris forbid you to say it openly?

True,you can't help me.
My help is from the Lord.

You remind me so much of the answers we get on the muslim threads.
Is it hard for you to be unambiguos?

babyosisi:

No man is above the laws of righteousness.
.

 

And what are the laws of Righteousness?

babyosisi:

If you must know,Christ embassy or your  Pastor Chris will not save you or anyone else.
.

I know this quite well because the bible says so. If u had read my post WELL ENOUGH u'd have seen it there. Apparently, u were looking for something else.

babyosisi:

that is most important to me not what your little insignificant Church(in the grand scheme of things) did with 39 million stolen naira.

see your nice post that u now ended like this, with all your propensity towards righteousness u ended in such a manner. Please don't follow people's mouth but know God for yourself by proper studying of your bible under the tutelage of the Holy spirit himself and not with head reasoning.

I'll see u guys tomorrow.

Thank you ma for such a nice submission.
I shall endeavour to learn more and desist from head knowledge and hearsay and ask the Holy Spirit for his help as you have advised.
What a kind lady thou art!!

Today I have finally met someone who knows it all.
Where have you been?

lysaa:



And what are the laws of Righteousness?

I

Is this now a quiz session?
I don't subscribe to such.
It'll do me no good

I still plead with you to tell us how this case ended.
You are still keeping that vital information from us.
Your unwillingness to tell us what eventually became of this money after it was determined to be stolen makes me uneasy.
It should make every Christian uneasy.
Why is it hidden?
Yes the papers may not have reported it.when pastor Chris learnt of the money what did he do?

babyosisi:

tell us since you are in the know.What did the police do?
Did pastor Chris forbid you to say it openly?

No i didn't tell u all u know. go and find out in the same way.

babyosisi:

True,you can't help me.
My help is from the Lord.

True, i realised that. so what have u said that i havent?

babyosisi:

You remind me so much of the answers we get on the muslim threads.
Is it hard for you to be unambiguos?

I wonder how u handle it onthere. please to be frank with u i don't understand your "Is it hard for you to be unambiguos?" or u meant unambiguous. well dear, i am but u don't seem to get me, u are only interested in how the money "waka"

No i didn't tell u all u know. go and find out in the same way.

so it's hard for you to categorically affirm that the Church either spent this stolen money (which would look bad) or gave it back which would affirm that it is a Church indeed.
My sister I don't know much about this your church except for this case and so far,it is not a place I'll like to be associated with.
If my pastor (God forbid) took money from a robber and refuses to return it,I would leave that Church in a heartbeat and if he did,I would be glad he obeyed God.

Your silence on this issue shows you are hiding something.
It does not look good at all.
Good night.

babyosisi:

Today I have finally met someone who knows it all.
Where have you been?

when did I say i know all or prove so. I know Just as lil as a pinch of salt that adds flavor to my life. Bible says we know in parts . And our knowlegde of him increases as we know his words.

babyosisi:

so it's hard for you to categorically affirm that the Church either spent this stolen money (which would look bad) or gave it back which would affirm that it is a Church indeed. Your silence on this issue hows you are hiding something. It does not look good at all.

yes go and find out from your source. Now u have the Hotel's name too. send them e-mails as well.