@Shahan,

Just curious. You never said anything about his relationship with T.B. Joshua. To me, that is the height of it all. Every other thing pale in comparison to it. Are you afraid to make categorical statements as many are?

you guys should throw the search light on yourselves before searching another, Jesus said "he that is without sin should cast the first stone". like shahan rightly said, we are all accountable to God and not to any man, what-ever Pastor Chris does, he would give account of. He is my MOG and his teachings has brought me far in life. i'm glad about this joy that i've found and NO MAN can take it away! I repeat, search  urself b4 u point at others.

That is what I mean about Biblical contradictions!

Supposedly we are born sinners according to the book of myths. If this is the case, surely we should be stoned to death when we are born.

Would cut down on the costs of a Sharia law court

@TayoD,

Bless you my brother. I'm not afraid to make categorical statements about anyone - Muhammad included.  

Indeed, I only make categorical statements that I can defend after gathering all the facts to the point. Yes, I read in the papers of Pastor Chris going to TB Joshua's shrine and allegations of his allowing the latter to lay hands on him. I tread carefully about allegations that have not been satisfactorily authenticated. Can anyone deny that miracles were taking place in Pastor Chris' ministry before the august visit?

Let me assure you, I'm not a Christ Embassy apologist, nor do I swallow everything and anything the pastors there teach. A case in point was my allusion to his brother's recent message justifying bribery: I was appalled!

My style of debating issues stems from my persuasions of John 7:51 - "Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?" I concede that I don't know the man Chris Oyakhilome deeply enough; and my inferences about any other person will not rest on hear-says. Same thing applies even to TB Joshua - and I know enough to bear my mind out on the fact that TB-J is a shaman.

I certainly do not swallow everything any pastor says hook-line-and-sinker. Even my pastor has made a few mistakes; but thankfully, he hasn't displayed the pride we often see in some others. In all things, a few factors I consider in issues like this are:

(a) rejoice that the name of Jesus Christ is being preached - regardless of who is preaching:
"What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice." (Php. 1:18 ).

(b) concentrate on what God wants me to do for Him - not judge another who's fulfilling his calling;
"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand." (Rom 14:4). _{that's so humbling to me.}

(c) discourage evil where we find them - and for this I cannot prejudge anyone for what I don't know:
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." - (Eph 5:11).

Of course, not everything Pastor Chris does is according to God's revealed Word; but I know some of his teachings have been a blessing to me even though I don't fellowship with them.

Cheers.  

@Shahan,

I do feel the same way as you. I believe it is on this forum that I also mentioned the fact that Pastor Chris is undoubtedly called and anointed by our Lord. It is on this premise that I find it utmostly reprehensible that he would be involved with that Charlatan called T.B. Joshua at the expense of the household of faith.

More than my concern for him is my concern for his flock. I know a lot of them first hand either as family or as friends and I find their allegiance is more to the man than to their Savior. Their Shepherd is unquestionable and unaccountable. While he rightly answers to no man but His Lord, his motives and recent style of ministration suggests a deviation from the Spirit of the Lord.

You know the greatest deceit we fall for in the body of Christ is due to the fact that "the gifts and callings of God are without repentance". As a result, even those who are falling from grace will appear to us as in line with God since we still see God's gift in manifestation in their ministries.

No doubt, T.B. Joshua as great influence on Pastor Chris which is evidenced by his ministering in the same manner as T.B. I was appalled seeing his healing ministration recently where he started pointing his finger at people and remotely controlling them just like T.B. Joshua does. This I saw myself, and not a hear-say. Something is wrong somewhere and it appears he has severed his relationship with those who could speak the truth to him in love. Others are busy singing his praise and urging him on in the face of error.

As you said, I have seen my Pastor even castigated us for not correcting his errors, and I have seen him have us question his motives, actions and associations. I wish this will be the case too.

Pastor Chris is NOT a man of God as far as i'm concerned. Each time i watched his "ministrations" the hairs on the back of my neck would always rise.

This man is a charlatan! When flock begin to see the man and not the Saviour then it is time to take a step back!

@TayoD,

I welcome your sound reasoning and appreciate your perspective on the issue. No doubt Pastor Chris has a certain element of pride, fed by the crowd he draws. I'm persuaded that his connection with TB Joshua was a grave mistake; but his lack of remorse over that issue began to raise doubts in many quaters.

I remember as well that Pastor Chris has also castigated many other ministers in the past. An example was when he repudiated the idea of pastors explaining the Word used in Greek or Hebrew. Guess what? He is now using the same Greek words in his recent teachings, e.g. Three Kinds of Wisdom, in which he spoke about Sophia and other ideas.

That said, what is wrong remains wrong - 'anointing' or not. To defend a theft and refuse to correct evil as in the case of the N49m seed offering, does not highlight his calling as a true servant of God.

Well, showing no remorse over an issue simply means two things, either pride or he still knows for sure who he is, why should we be so stiff-necked to continue contemplating on the pride-side, common now, turn and check the flip side, the man is still causing changes in the lives of people as in getting people saved which is the biggest miracle ever. But if y'all stay there criticising him, how does it affect him than for him to turn your criticism into an energy to move on, christianity is a relationship between a man and God, like a marriage no 3rd party, that is why whatever you say about him doesn't count. LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE as an example and lets emulate you.

By the way, how did Pastor Chris castigate men of God that used Hebrew or Greek in their teaching?,

Defending a theft? Are you without sin? Is your righteousness based on works? how come with all ur errors your sins are not imputed against you by reason of grace when you confess to God? God's way is way different from man's, I'm not saying Pastor Chris is all perfect but we need to know all about a matter before passing out judgement.

I must confess this man has had a great, not positive, impact on my christian life in recent years.

In my university days at Unilag, I adored this man's ministry (Love World Fellowship) and our own fellowship shared a lot of fellowship with his own fellowship. I was greatly blessed by his teachings and I considered him a very good teacher, probably second only to Rev. Chris Okotie.

However, in recent years, he has delved into a place which is very fertile in terms of drawing Nigerians, who incidentally are always seeking miracles to our myriad of problems rather than taking steps of faith and doing things about the problems.

I have always said that faith is a great thing but faith is only great when that faith is in God, not human activity or actions. I am yet to meet anyone who has recieved a miracle from any such gathering, neither have I ever met anyone who knows someone who recieved such miracles. Against the background of what doctors say about some of the recipients of such miracles, I am inclined to disbelief these miracles.

I must add that I watched one such miracle thing on TV a couple of years ago and a man born blind had just recieved his sight. He knew the colour of the pastor's tie. To me, the miracle in that is the fact that the man had recieved such knowledge of colours within a few minutes.

I still like listening to his teaching though. It can still be refreshing

lysaa:

Well, showing no remorse over an issue simply means two things, either pride or he still knows for sure who he is, why should we be so stiff-necked to continue contemplating on the pride-side, common now, turn and check the flip side, the man is still causing changes in the lives of people as in getting people saved which is the biggest miracle ever.

I sincerely would have wished that you didn't throw things in a wishy-washy way. Let me ask you: if a pastor led 120 million to Jesus Christ in order that they might be saved, does that make pride excusable at any level? Do you know what pride really is in the sight of God?

It is one thing for someone to have been proud and later repent before God and still do the "first works". But to savour world-wide popularity and still be proud in the sight of God does not make God change His mind about the sin He condemned in His Word.

lysaa:

But if y'all stay there criticising him, how does it affect him than for him to turn your criticism into an energy to move on, christianity is a relationship between a man and God, like a marriage no 3rd party, that is why whatever you say about him doesn't count. LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE as an example and lets emulate you.

Whatever I say about anyone may not count - but it counts before God who has given us the Scriptures to test everything and seek fellowship with people who will not be headstrong in their pride; especially when such pride is fed by those who see nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with it.

lysaa:

By the way, how did Pastor Chris castigate men of God that used Hebrew or Greek in their teaching?,

I thought you knew so very much of the man before seeking to defend everything about him? At least, it is on record that he castigated other pastors, and particularly disliked Okotie for his exegisis of Scripture using the Greek and Hebrew words. It came rather as a surprise a few weeks later that the same Oyaks that didn't like another person using the Greek or Hebrew started doing the very thing he denounced!

We are not perfect; but highly placed people send a quizzical message in their attitudes when they engage unapologetically in the very things they once denounced.

Cheers.

Children of God, remember that on that day, you will give account of every idle wrod spoken. God knows those whom he has called. Stop the insinuations and accusations. you have now turned yourselves into judges of God's prophets. You are bold o! But i do not envy you.

Dont you see that whom God has blessed is blessed and cannot be cursed? It is God's choice and He dosn't care how you feel about it.

Cant you see that nothing, be it human, power, principality, govt or authority can stand successfully against whom God has approved?

We know He is a humble man of God. He does not have to deny the glorious gospel and the power of his might to be humble. Many of you were involved in writing damaging stories about the man. Some of you were mobilized by your pastors (who did not know better then) to tear down posters advertising his programs and even campaigned against him writing articles. Those in the universities persecuted BLW members, calling them funny names and telling lies against them.

Today the man of God and his children are standing tall and great , where are you now? what has your talking left you.

Cant you see tht the more you raise persecution against Him, the more the grace and glory of God shines upon Him and his ministry. Persecution makes him stronger and more glorious in the Lord. Persecution distinguishes him in a class of glory, Cant you see? There had to be Goliath for the glory of David to be seen by all.

That is the way of the Lord. If he is not walking in the light of God, he will surely fail and be destroyed but if he is walking with God, anything you do or say against Him will work against you.

As for greek and hebrew, it is necessary when it edifies the people and not for self aggrandizement, confusing the people further.

I am speaking in love to you all. Please hear my advice.

@donnie,

In all your persuasions and defence, what has pastor Oyaks done with the case of N49m stolen money as offering?

In all your persuasions, what are we to do with the man who claims to be an MOG and defends such robbery?

In all your persuasions, pastor Oyak's use of hebrew and greek edifies people; but it was alright for him to have ridiculed others who used it, abi?

I rejoice where truth is told. Where cover-up is offered as a better alternative to exposing fraud, my hand no dey!

In love, shahan!

Shahan, do you mind if I ask where you worship?

Lol, @Easyy,

I have said before in one of the threads that for security purposes the name of my local church cannot be stated on the Forum. For this reason i have offered my email addy if anyone wants to know.

Meanwhile, my church is not affiliated with any Christ-Embassy churches.

Cheers.

You know the truth for yourselves. I am not defending him, i am speaking for truth. If you want to know the truth i think the best place to start is by hearing from those involved and not by reading junk.

Did those men say the gave Pastor Chris money? Did you hear what he said about the signatures of the letters? Did he say the letters were written with his knowledge or consent. I need not speak much but let time reveal truth.

Do not love lies, or your life will be an expression of flsehood.

The truth will always prevail over falsehood.

Churches are all about making making money!!
why should they care whether or not we go to heaven?
look how beautifully decorated churches are, yet, church members are hungry!
see the flashy cars most religious leaders have, yet, some members are not sure of eating 3 squared meals a day!
Only God can judge!

Pastor Chris!

I just love the man's preaching/teaching. Very inspiring.

Not to me it aint!!

In actual fact, without wanting to sound arrogant, the truth is his detractors really do not count, cos whether you like it or not, they that be with us are far more! Glory!

@donnie,

In actual fact, without wanting to sound arrogant, the truth is his detractors really do not count, because whether you like it or not, they that be with us are far more! Glory!

Are you refering to the size of your congregation or you are refering to God? Please be clear so we can know how to address your confusion and blatant butchering of the scriptures.

Did those men say the gave Pastor Chris money? Did you hear what he said about the signatures of the letters? Did he say the letters were written with his knowledge or consent. I need not speak much but let time reveal truth.

Now that we all know where they stole the money from, don't you think he should return the money to the rightful owner? Do you realise Banks are being fined and blacklisted for providing channels for terrorism? I'm sure your Pastor's behind would have been in jail now if he tried this in the West. Paying for stolen property is a crime. I can't believe a Man of God won't hold himself to a higher standard.

Return what money? One of those who worshiped in the same branch as Pastor Chris when asked said he did not give stolen money to church though he has given offerings at other times like any christian will do but that under pressure from his employers said he gave it to church thinking it'll save him from much trouble.

The generator that was bought by the other man ws taken out of the church premises.

By the way, how many of those who have embezzled billions of naira from the govt. over the years have had their pastors, priests or Imams accused of wrong doing? Why the double standard then?

In any case, such amount of money wouldn't mean much to Pastor Chris.

Even Jesus had a thief as one of his disciples. Judas did not change after all those years. Does that put a question mark on his ministry or on his calling as a Prophet of God?

Whom God hath justified, no man, not even you, can condemn.

@donnie,

I tire for your shameless defence of that which isn't associated with anything called righteousness. If you felt nothing was wrong with the stolen money, why did they bother to remove the gen from the church? If the monwy doesn't mean much to Oyahks (I guess you are his accountant), why doesn't he return seven fold and be an example in righteousness? I guess greed won't allow.

Judas may have being a thief, but at no time did he give stolen money to further Jesus' ministry. Do you realise Jesus was responsible for Judas' daily living? Why are you bent on finding a scriptures to justify an unrighteous action? I am not surprised anyway, if scriptures could be used to justify his allegiance to that devil called T.B. Joshua, I shouldn't be surprised to what extent his admireres will go to justify his unrighteous actions.

donnie:

Return what money? One of those who worshiped in the same branch as Pastor Chris when asked said he did not give stolen money to church though he has given offerings at other times like any christian will do but that under pressure from his employers said he gave it to church thinking it'll save him from much trouble.

When liars, thieves and crooks are tolerated in the house of God then something is terribly wrong somewhere! Jesus took a whip and chased money changers from the temple! Greed and covetousness in the house of the Lord!

donnie:

The generator that was bought by the other man ws taken out of the church premises.

A tacit acceptance that acceptiing the money in the first place was wrong! Why the refusal to return the money then?

donnie:

By the way, how many of those who have embezzled billions of naira from the govt. over the years have had their pastors, priests or Imams accused of wrong doing? Why the double standard then?

Because those who embezzled such money did not donate it as "seed offering" to their pastors neither where they associate pastors!

donnie:

In any case, such amount of money wouldn't mean much to Pastor Chris.

then let him do as Zacheus! Return such money 7 fold! We are not talking about whether the money means much to him or not but on whether it was appropriate to accept it in the first place!

donnie:

Even Jesus had a thief as one of his disciples. Judas did not change after all those years. Does that put a question mark on his ministry or on his calling as a Prophet of God?

Yep! Judas did not bring stolen money as "Seed offering" neither did Jesus encourage his disciples to go begging for such! Infact Jesus fed thousands from his own meagre resources! That is the example we should follow!
In the end we all know what befell Judas the thief!

donnie:

Whom God hath justified, no man, not even you, can condemn.

Whom has God justified? Can you give us the certificate of justification?

We will wait for time to reveal whom God hath vindicated or better still, for eternity, where every idle word spoken will be given account of.

donnie:

We will wait for time to reveal whom God hath vindicated or better still, for eternity, where every idle word spoken will be given account of.

. . .and where every kobo pilfered from government accounts as "seed offering" will be given account of!

well he is my pastor and i think he is doing a marvelous work for the kingdom of God. if i may ask, in what area has he really made a mistake or is he being persecuted for. this whole thing is like the case of Jesus and the Pharisees and Sadducee's and all those other guys. they were always persecuting Jesus for the issues that didn't make sense. Remmember the Sadducee's were religious leaders, and same is happening today. Even the religious leaders are persecuting pastor Chris. i mean even leaders from reputable Pentecostal churches. we could go on and on, but lets leave the whole Judgment to God OK. At the End Jesus proved he was the Son of God. Chris will be judged by God, and not by man. I think everybody should work out there salvation with fear and trembling because at the end you will not be asked to give account of what Chris did, and he will not be required to give account of your own life.

@ least the pharisees and saduccees could not accuse Jesus of demanding "seed offering" from the poor, recieving stolen government funds and "blessing it", hobnobbing with false teachers.

When are people going to open their eyes and see beyond this personality-cult of defending robbery on the excuse of "every idle word" to be accounted of? This was why I questioned earlier the sort of esoteric teaching and practices that are now blowing through LoveWorld. If this is all the defence that could be offered for the mystery behind the N49m offering that the "man-in-charge" refuses to return, then it's a shame beyond reason.

And the idea of trying to equate this N49m loot to "the case of Jesus and the Pharisees and Sadducee's" simply beggars the question. In all the years that I've been reading my Bible, I haven't seen any verse where Jesus was accused of questionable means of receiving monetary offering from anyone.

In case this defence is missing the point, let us remind our friends that God scrutinizes the source of any offering brought before Him. For instance, Deut. 23:18 gives a hint on this:

"Thou shalt not bring the hire of a LovePeddler, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God."

Take the hint: if the source of the N49m is questionable, rather than assume a personality-cult worship in defence of what is clearly wrong, we should not be reading such braggadocio as this:

donnie:

Return what money?
. . .
In any case, such amount of money wouldn't mean much to Pastor Chris.

Doing the work of the Lord does not exempt an MOG/pastor from integrity of character.

I don't know what u guys are referring to as Jesus ' ministry. The ministry i have read about was not a place called church like we have today because bible says that he too went to the synagogue to worship like everyone else. save for the entire body of christ which of course is THE church. In any case, if he had had " a church" definately, all manner of people would have been in it and we definately would have heard more criticsm from the far-to-sees and sad-to-sees.

My heart goes out for all you who are laying in wait for the latest about Pst Chris just to have more reasons to disregard him and his ministry; I Pray God help you.

There was a convention held in 2005 at the stadium in Benin, this has nothing to do with Christ embassy but some members attended, it was organised by MOG from other penticostal churches. When one of the guest Pastors finished admonishing his fellow pastors how not to tear down men of God especially Pst Chris with their tongue because they bring down hindrances on their lives and ministries. They repented. These were pastors that Were struggling with their own ministry but later found out that they were the cause. "Death and life are in the power of the tongue; they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."

See, even your pastors need prosperity. without it, their ministry wouldn't grow and they won't reachout the way the vision was given to them. Stop badmouthing Pastor Chris for your own good. Left for him, he has nothing to lose. This is absolutely not what our calling as christian is. I have read most of the posts onhere shows there is no unbeliever on the thread maybe few unbels sha. but lets not lose our focus which is Christ . A lot of times we try to help God. but "it is him that justifies" Dont try to play God to say who is who. Let God be God,

@shahan, where did u get the info that pastor castigated other preacchers that used greek and hebrew in their teaching?, please go back to your archives, tapes whatever it was and get it straight. He didn't. OR maybe i don't get what u mean by castigate.

This tearing ourselves apart that we are doing here is also a strategy of the enemy, don't fall prey. Christians? Followers of God, if u know who u are please stop. In the days of John the baptist, Jesus never pointed accusing finger at John even tho he had some "reasons" to do so, neither did John at Jesus ( remember he spoke of him but at a time had doubt too). If you are who u are don't copy the world: pulling down one another for u are not of them but of God.

He that has ears let him hear.

@lysaa,

lysaa:

In the days of John the baptist, Jesus never pointed accusing finger at John even tho he had some "reasons" to do so, neither did John at Jesus ( remember he spoke of him but at a time had doubt too).

We hear you. Please could you enunciate on what you mean by Jesus had some "reasons" to point accusing fingers at John the baptist? At least we know that neither Jesus nor John the baptist had a N49 million controversy between them.

I don't think the core of the issue is that anyone is outrightly denouncing pastor Oyaks in his ministry. But what are we to do with such issues that have been mystified and got everyone raising eye-brows? Should we just pass glibly over them and pretend nothing happened?

ur answer is right where u quoted from my post, guess u quoting me is irrelevant cos u just wanted to say what u have said.

raising ur eye-brow is not helping either but sha, i have said what i have to say, those with enough liver to judge men of God should carry on.

Since when has asking questions surrounding a N49million controversy become "enough liver to judge men of God"?

Anyway, nuf said already - if all MOGs should surround themselves with mystery N49m, perhaps our spiritual climate will be for the better, abi?