michelin89:

eh? The bible says the two shall become one but still one go rule on the other?

How can one rule on himself?

Please don't take this as an insult but anyone who grew up in a loving and stable home with a mother and a father that deeply cared and loved one another would understand that concept.
One does not even have to be a Christian to get it.

We are all a product of our upbringing.
Someone who saw her father batter and bruise her mom would see marriage different from someone who saw a supportive caring father.

A child who grows up in a polygamous home where the various wives bickered and clamoured for the "kings" attention in the midst of palpable hostility will view marriage differently.

But God is able to heal those wounds.

+osisi:

Please don't take this as an insult but anyone who grew up in a loving and stable home with a mother and a father would understand that concept.
One does not even have to be a Christian to get it.

What the hell are you talking about?

I am trying to get why there seems to be a contraddiction between these two verses and here you are giving me the child with a difficult childhood crap. Please keep your opinions to yourself, when else you decide to insult other people claiming you don't mean it as an insult.

I might not have had the most wonderful childhood but that doesn't mean I should drink everything those who came from a lovable family say.

To hell with you and your lovely family.  

michelin89:

What the hell are you talking about?

I am trying to get why there seems to be a contraddiction between these two verses and here you are giving me the child with a difficult childhood crap. Please keep your opinions to yourself, when else you decide to insult other people claiming you don't mean it as an insult.

I might not have had the most wonderful childhood but that doesn't mean I should drink everything those who came from a lovable family say.

To hell with you and your lovely family. 

No wonder you made your utterances.
It was clear what your problems were.
If you don't seek to work through them,you'll end up with an abusive man and raise angry and confused children just like yourself.
This is your time to break that chain.
You have my utmost sympathy.

almondjoy:

I do not deal with men without jobs! Never have and never will.

Here the man had a job before they got married, along the way something unplanned for happened

almondjoy:

The reason we are both in the medical field! Not some "businessman or businesswoman shit".

We can not all be doctors, engineers and the likes. The world, like marriage is built such that we can compliment each other. If the farmer does not produce food, you might not have the energy to practice your chosen marketable field. Zoologist and Botanist have their role in the development of Africa to that enviable height we aspire for

almondjoy:

Yes, no condition is permanent. But for you to plan, you must learn to make wise choices in life. I am so glad I do not have to be faced with such a problem.

What we can only control in life are the inputs, the outputs are a function of our inputs and some unknowns beyond our control. Some say GOD, others NATURE and some other factors which we could have controlled but did not envisage

almondjoy:

I have set my standards and I live by them. You set yours and live by them.

+osisi:

No wonder you made your utterances.
It was clear what your problems were.
If you don't seek to work through them,you'll end up with an abusive man and raise children just like yourself.
This is your time to break that chain.
You have my utmost sympathy.

What the hell are you talking about?
Have you got brains at all?
Do you link every unhappy to childhood to an abusive father, mother?
Are you so stupid?
I don't care if you are 30 and you are married with kids, but you speak like a retarded bitch.
I wonder how your husband is capable of coping with a dickhead like you.

@ my earlier post
And please can someone explain that contraddiction?

almond,

if I may, let me give an example that just might shed a little more light:

Prior to Katrina, there hadn't been a hurricane in New Orleans in 100 years I believe. Of course, the city council and FG planned and planned and planned. I also remember watching on CNN every hurricane system some special on "what happens if a cat 5 hurricane strikes New Orleans?" and again, they would show whatever latest technology they had that, including giant suction pumps, would help minimize the impact of a hurricane. We both know what happened when Katrina landed.

My point(s): Though we should always hope for the best and plan for the worst, there are things that are beyond our control. Such things, ala Katrina, are referred to as, "acts of God".

darling sis-in-law, Dalby n my2cents u be jeje great brains at work. . . .rob on

michelin89 n +osisi. . . abeg peace o, no fight

@all posters. . . if u wona argue, argue! explain ya point but please don't fight!!!!!

efuah:

darling sis-in-law, Dalby n my2cents u be jeje great brains at work. . . .rob on

michelin89 n +osisi. . . abeg peace o, no fight

I was just looking for someone to explain something and that bitch came up with my childhood being characterized by an abusive parent.
She doesn't know a damn about me. How dares she make such a remark? She is simply detestable.

I barely made an observation but didn't know it fit michelin to a T.
Need I say more.
I guess you didn't learn proper language to use in public either
kpele!

@ michelin

there is NO contradiction

they are one in the sense of one flesh, one mind, one purpose.

The man must lead/head because even in the greatest unions, there comes a time when there is no agreement, at that point, the head must make the move in the interest of the rest.

No matter the level of unity between a couple, there are some issues they will not be able to agree on, in those cases, the man is supposed to exercise leadership with the best interests of all concerned. That is just the practicality of the matter, unless of course you feel that on EVERY issue you will agree with your husband.

+osisi:

I barely made an observation but didn't know it fit michelin to a T.
Need I say more.
I guess you didn't learn proper language to use in public either
kpele!

You are obtuse and brainless.

You are not worth discussing with.

have a nice day.

debosky:

@ michelin

there is NO contradiction

they are one in the sense of one flesh, one mind, one purpose.

The man must lead/head because even in the greatest unions, there comes a time when there is no agreement, at that point, the head must make the move in the interest of the rest.

No matter the level of unity between a couple, there are some issues they will not be able to agree on, in those cases, the man is supposed to exercise leadership with the best interests of all concerned. That is just the practicality of the matter, unless of course you feel that on EVERY issue you will agree with your husband.

Thanks for your explanation.

na fight again

:p

I think I am in a good position to answer that. I grew up in a family where at an early age we had the comfort of life. That was not to be after my 11th birthday as my dad had a problem in his office and was forced to resign. My mum is in the teaching profession and I can tell you there was not absolute peace in the house. Life gradually became difficult and my mum will sometimes react when there were some pecuniary issues at home.

But we all my siblings and mum still had respect for my dad and accorded him the respect he deserved as the head of the family. We sometimes despised him but he was still the head of the family, we sometimes disobeyed him but he was still the head of the family. Life was hard but my mum stood by the family, though she would raise her voice and complain that she was fed up but she would cook and place food on the table for my siblings and dad. That didn't make her the head of the family. My dad was still the head. Going to the University was a problem but she didn't have to prostitute. She had to go borrowing and sometimes had to visit friends and relatives hoping for a gift. That still didn't make her the head of the family.

Today we only look back at the past and say if God and shown us what was in front, we would have endured without seldom complaining and despising my dad, because we are all gainfully employed and doing well in our chosen careers. Who knows what we would have been if we insulted our dad everyday,despised him everyday. I believe God would not have made a way for us because we didn't honour him. I will also ask where will my mother had been today if she had deserted the family then, I believe none of us would have wanted to see her.

THE MAN IS STILL THE HEAD NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCE, ALL HE NEEDS IS PRAYERS, ENCOURAGEMENT AND SUPPORT.

Luka na GOD go bless u, everything happens for a reason. There are no GAPS, its all part of the divine plan. In retrospect, even as frail humans we see it all

Wow, I was not even receiving notification that there were new posts!

I can't believe the different directions this post has taken, people like to insult each other for know reason!

Anyway, for people who are not sure about my position, I really don't care enough about the head of household thing to fight for it in a relationship unnecessarily. But what I dislike is when a man uses this title to excuse any ill treatment he asserts against his wife.

I think this is a factor affecting many divorces nowadays and people need to realise it. Money and jobs can go at any time in a marriage and it is how the couple come together that keeps the marriage going. If the man takes out his frustrations and feeling of de-masculinity on his wife and decides not to work hard then fine.

@Dalby - you are speaking to me like I don't understand how hard it is to find a job. The issue is not him having a job but him not looking for one. When you have a family, you put them before yourself whether you are a man or woman. Okay, let the woman stop stressing herself too and decide to quit her job so she can sit at home with him. Then what?

Personally, I don't care for 'head of the household thing' if this was my husband and he was shouting, 'I am still head of the household', I will say 'ok, did I say you were not?'. How much do you want to bet, the lady in question did not even ask him if he believed he was still the head of the household?

I think the arguments probably arise from her making decisions concerning how money is spent. Even if both were working, I am sure you would find arguments over money (nothing too heavy). But the fact that, only she has VOLUNTEERED to work (he has outrightly REFUSED), yet he might be insisting he will decide how all money is spent in a way that she disagrees with, this is probably what caused this argument (efuah said something about decisions).

Anyway, i don't know enough about this couple to say that much about them but I can speak of similar cases. Truthfully, I know judgement belongs to God (as i think someone else pointed out), and it is not my marriage, my friend or relative, so I am leaving it at that. This thread is getting a bit vicious (child abuse  ) and I have important things to do i.e. looking for a job!  

Peace

ell77:

@Dalby - you are speaking to me like I don't understand how hard it is to find a job. The issue is not him having a job but him not looking for one. When you have a family, you put them before yourself whether you are a man or woman. Okay, let the woman stop stressing herself too and decide to quit her job so she can sit at home with him. Then what?

A man who doesn't go out now and then does not mean he has not set his network and is not searching for a job. What I see hear is that he is not going out as often as the wife would want which is subjective and dependent on how stressed the wife is, considering the burden she's had to bear. We are all saying the same thing, I do not support laziness, but the wife can put this energy into giving him more support and encouragement to strive some more simple.

A man who doesn't go out now and then does not mean he has not set his network and is not searching for a job. What I see here is that he is not going out as often as the wife would want which is subjective and dependent on how stressed the wife is, considering the burden she's had to bear. We are all saying the same thing, I do not support laziness, but the wife can put this energy into giving him more support and encouragement to strive some more simple.

luka, nice one from u. . . . i guess u had and a rational man as a father. Some of these jobless men can be nuisance; if the wife comes home late, she's sleeping wt the boss, if she goes borrowing like u claim ur mom did, she's disgracing him (the man being the head). . . if u try to advice him on where there's a vacancy, he will say u're ordering him around. . . what the heck! I have seen joblessness b4, one of my big sis hubby had the same problem, but the guy was always out searching everywhere for a job. At the end of the day if there's no job found, we can't blame or complain that much cus we all saw how serious he was.

Well, i can't tell if this man i question is looking for a job on the net . . . but staying at home 24/7 can be quiet. upsetting! Nobody said he shd be denied of his headship, but the question is, is he still the head? if yes then simple! case close!!

@ell77 & Dalby

in todays society where every wife wants to be a working class lady, go out in the morning and come back late in d evening or at night, leaving the kids at the mercy of a househelp: just tell me "what's the role of a woman". if a man loses his role as the head of the house because he is not meeting up with his responsibilities, then a working class lady that cannot fulfil her primary responsibilty in the home should b sent packing

bros. . . no vex, calm down!

@nedsly. . . ur first post and u're angry like this? lol

[/quote]

luka:

and I can tell you there was not absolute peace in the house. Life gradually became difficult and my mum will sometimes react when there were some pecuniary issues at home.

But we all my siblings and mum still had respect for my dad and accorded him the respect he deserved as the head of the family. We sometimes despised him but he was still the head of the family, we sometimes disobeyed him but he was still the head of the family.

Equilibrium is the condition of a system in which competing influences are balanced. Everything is working together in harmony. When a party in the house especially the dad looses his job, that state of equilibrium is broken and all the competing influence (elements) and in the case of the house, dependants trying to adjust to the new state of in-equilibrium begin to move in an inharmonious manner (chaos). What was described in the case of study is not much different from the facts above, don't you think

[quote author=efuah link=topic=106200.msg1867341#msg1867341 date=1200732874]
luka, nice one from u. . . . i guess u had and a rational man as a father. Some of these jobless men can be nuisance; if the wife comes home late, she's sleeping wt the boss, if she goes borrowing like u claim your mom did, she's disgracing him (the man being the head). . . if u try to advice him on where there's a vacancy, he will say u're ordering him around. . . what the heck! I have seen joblessness before, one of my big sis hubby had the same problem, but the guy was always out searching everywhere for a job. At the end of the day if there's no job found, we can't blame or complain that much cus we all saw how serious he was.

Much and little is relative to individuals your little complaints might have driven the guy round the bend you know. I actually new of a guy in this situation that lost his bank job. A previously lovely home to visit now became a daily battle ground. He confided in me that it got so bad that when the wife wanted to insult him, she would start from the top, his parents and every one in his family till it gets to his turn. Staying at home was out of the question, he left the house very early and returns about 11:00pm at night. He spent over 80% of this time in the pub, discussing politics and being bought beer by old friends who new his position. Could that be classified as searching for work

He normally got home about 11pm by which time the wife and kids would have slept. They even had to withdraw the kids from school since the wife was not working, and the landlord did not make things any easier at the expiration of his rent.

Today he is the General Manager of a company, the wife drives a jeep, he has built 2 houses that I know, the children now attend one of the best schools in PH, now its one big happy family. Like the 3 years of joblessness never even happened. I really do wonder

@Dalby. . . . so who was that man deceiving? did he get his present job by sitting in pubs/discussing politics / playing cards n being bought drinks

Efuah, the answer is simple. If the man loses his job, he ceases to be the head of the household, the woman can become the head of the household and take over all the responsibilities including finances and discipline. Similarly in a two-career household, if the wife loses her job and is "too lazy" to find one, the man can bring in a second wife or divorce the "lazy" wife. That would be fair.

Efuah, the answer is simple. If the man loses his job, he ceases to be the head of the household, the woman can become the head of the household and take over all the responsibilities including finances and discipline.

Legally and Financially, yes. Biblically, no.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

IN A NORMAL SITUATION A MAN IS THE HEAD OF THE FAMILY NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

The Bible and Nigerian Tradition also says this.

The only reason when people starts asking questions is when the situation is not normal.

@Poster for the man to be shouting that he is the head of the house already shows that he is afraid that he is not, you don't go around shouting that you are your father's son except you are faced with paternity test.

The president does not get on a radio to make announcement that he is the President of Nigeria, the people around him introduces as such.

I don't necessarily think a man that does not have a job is less of the head (so far he is not a lazy arse who is at ease with joblessness). Yaradua is the head of the country yet the money he is administering belong to Nigeria. There are many women who have money but their husband adminsters the money appropriately in terms of investments, advice to the woman so much so that the increase is even better than for the husband to be working.

Do you think that woman will complain?

And for the fella who said it is what is 'below', words even fail me

conditions atimes may be like that. no problem, the man is still the head of the family.

but in this situation where the man is not willing to rise up to the challenges facing him, he could lose the respect of his headship.

the bible says a man that cannot provide for is family is worst that an infidel. do not forget, where purpose is not defined and practically substantiated, abuse is inevitable.

efuah:

@Dalby. . . . so who was that man deceiving? did he get his present job by sitting in pubs/discussing politics / playing cards n being bought drinks

Discussing politics or whatever subject gives an insight into your level of education and you analytical skill and objectivity what better way to sell yourself being in that situation.

The guy was never card player. He ran into a old client of his former work place whom he always went out of the way to accelerate his financial transactions anytime he showed up at the bank. This client is the owner of the company he now works as GM. He started up there in the sales department and was able to get some juicy contracts for the firm. About 3 years down the road, the position of GM became vacant, and he was chosen over the operations manager to be GM.

More so at the pub you hear a lot of stories, even vacancies better than in the Tuesday / Thursday Guardian newspaper. A lot of companies don't advertise vacancies you know, it through a network of information that you hear these things. Out of sight is out of mind. When your friends constantly see you, they remember your problem and you burden becomes their burden.