TV01:

Don't mix issues.

First we are talking about a spectrum of abuse. I've said the remedy depends on the variables. You appear to be fixating on extreme physical instances. In those cases separate yourself from harm.

Why concern yourself with what God prefers? He did not intervene to begin with right?

Again, I don't know the history of this divorce or why. I always work to the template. I always point to the foundation. A believer marrying in God should not be getting to that position.

I'll stop this without completing or editing as I have to pop out. I'll tidy it up later

Best
TV

I don't get u here. You may need to explain further. Why are u suddenly removing God from d equation? I believe God is concerned about my wellbeing as well and not just about keeping his laws.

Let me address d abuse issue again. I am not fixating on extreme physical instances as u claim, though that is usually the case. For me, abuse is more psychological than physical. U may slap me once and I will ignore, but when u talk down at me all the time or treat me like a filthy rag, that, I will not take ligthly. But, because of the society we find ourselves in, someone in that kind of situation can't just wake up and say he wanna leave. Our people here don't understand or recognise the impact of psychological abuse. They can identify more with the physical one. So, once the physical one follows, the victim sees an easy way out.

ileobatojo:
Lol. Uneducated people who want to remain uneducated will not be the death of me in this place. Tying one down and flogging, dragging one along the floor by their hair are surely not serious enough. And you say I need help? Okay o abused people, wait until your spouse smashes your head in with a pestle before you know it's serious.

What ever you - or that person close to you - went through must have been serious eh? So bad that you are simply unable to broach the subject without a red haze and a total lack of balance. Do yourself a favour, leave the subject alone until you are better.

Abuse = "Tying one down and flogging, dragging one along the floor by their hair".

ileobatojo:
For the reasonable people with an ear please know that research has proven that abuse most often escalates instead of improves. Even if it doesn't, people can die from just one push.

How objective and insightful. That's right fella's, if your wife pushes you, divorce her sharp-sharp. Take heart guys, at least one person will support you.

Let me not aggravate your condition any further.

Sorry 0!

TV

^^^ Is this guy avoiding my question?

Oga, if u no know Bible naw de use am de talk abeg

Edited.

Tgirl4real:
Depending on ur def of success. In d Christian context, yes. But it doesn't guarantee plenty richies and wealth.

Wealth is not in view here. We are discussing a fulfilling and harmonious marriage

Tgirl4real:
Ok. U shouldn't be asking dat question now. U made it sound like as a Christian u have 100% guarantee ur marriage will work, forgetting that it takes 2 to make a marriage work. Secondly, Christ's primary purpose of coming is salvation not for marital bliss.

Does God fall short? Does The Lord fail to deliver? I can only testify of my own union. Uxury is us! Truth is we simply never have any "problems with each other". Troubles, yes, but we take comfort and strength in knowing we face them together. God is with us, His grace is on us. I simply will not deny Him. Neither myself or my wife have ever been physically threatening or abusive towards one another, never sworn at each other and never raised our voices at each other. We are deliriously happy. Like we say in boxing - yes 0, I boxed - train hard, fight easy. It's in the foundation. Built upon The Rock.

Tgirl4real:
And the unmarried don't? The divorced don't?

We are saying samething here. No matter your situation, u will face challenges, but it's worse when u are married. 1Cor 7

It's not necessarily worse. Marriage just has it's own unique set of issues, which may or may not present themselves to individual marriages. We/I had troubles before we even married. It's why it's for the mature and committed.

In our marriage we have experienced trouble. None that give leave for diovorce scripturally. But of course, if one of us is feeling the troubles we face are too much - or perhaps there is better on offer elsewhere - then of course we can.

Tgirl4real:
I don't understand your point here.

I beieve I've covered that now?

Tgirl4real:
Lol. Dare not. God can and even do much more. So, why not leave it to God to decide if he wants to save or not.

Is God capricious? Whimsical?? Why would He lead you into a bad marriage and then leave you there to be man or woman handled till divorce is your only remedy?

Tgirl4real:
May be I am backslidden, but I no longer agree that marriage even amongst Christians should be a do or die affair. And dat does not mean to say divorce is the best answer.

Do or die? I've always suspected that many marriages are simply manage-manage affairs of convenience, for the wrong reasons, at the wrong time, with wrong understanding and and woefully wrong expectations. That's not what God instituted, and not what we should aspire to. Your walk with God is between you and Him.

Are we done?

Best
TV

TV01:


How objective and insightful.


TV

I'm not trying to be objective or insightful. I'm telling you the simple facts. Your refusal to let go of your ignorance does not stop facts from being facts.

At the rest of the drivel you spewed, I can only laugh. If you feel like you've dealt some sort of devastating blow to me, sorry to burst your bubble but neither me nor anyone close to me have been victims of abuse. But don't worry, keep trying, maybe someday you will find something that will really pinch me.

Ah well, no point trying to get through to a self-righteous, sanctimonious person.

TV01:

What ever you - or that person close to you - went through must have been serious eh? So bad that you are simply unable to broach the subject without a red haze and a total lack of balance. Do yourself a favour, leave the subject alone until you are better.

Abuse = "Tying one down and flogging, dragging one along the floor by their hair".



How objective and insightful. That's right fella's, if your wife pushes you, divorce her sharp-sharp. Take heart guys, at least one person will support you.

Let me not aggravate your condition any further.

Sorry 0!

TV

Oh and by the way, I just wanted to commend you on the spectacular brand of Christianity you're practicing. You with the perfect Christian recipe for life making spiteful comments at someone who you believe to have been seriously abused? Which church did they teach you that one in?

I'm not sure what this thread is about. I thought i knew when i read the first few posts on page 1 but then it seems to have devolved.

1 Cor 7:12-16 gives you a reason to divorce ONLY in the case the unbelieving spouse chooses to depart (but you do know that does not make you free to remarry unless the spouse is dead).

I think i understand TV01's point and its not simply that a spouse put up with abuse - it is simply that a believer willing to go into marriage should do so PRIMARILY with God's direction. Doing this will not guarantee a stress-less marriage but it definitely guarantees that you are going into it with the person that God specifically chose for you. With that in mind, should mistakes cause you both to resort to divorce at the drop of a hat? Not really.

davidylan: I'm not sure what this thread is about. I thought i knew when i read the first few posts on page 1 but then it seems to have devolved.

It most certainly has. In the thread from which this one spawned, I'd taken a stance that TV01 wanted explained. I started this one to address his questions and relate my position to the Bible. It was my intention and hope that the thread would naturally evolve into an examination of the Bible's position on abusive relationships.

For some reason, it didn't appear to suit TV01 to understand me and pursue a respectful and civil discussion into the issue on hand. His questions seemed to be an effort to misunderstand me. He has refused to take the opportunity I offered him to explain his intentions with them.

As you can see for yourself, his "tawdriness and general slowness" has all but disappeared now that he can teach people in abusive relationships how to live their lives.

1 Cor 7:12-16 gives you a reason to divorce ONLY in the case the unbelieving spouse chooses to depart (but you do know that does not make you free to remarry unless the spouse is dead).

Now this is where I believe that we have any real debate, if at all. Verse 15 says categorically that the believing spouse is not bound by the marital covenant if the unbelieving spouse repudiates it. And my pursuit of deeper meanings was to show how and that this makes perfect sense.

I think i understand TV01's point and its not simply that a spouse put up with abuse - it is simply that a believer willing to go into marriage should do so PRIMARILY with God's direction. Doing this will not guarantee a stress-less marriage but it definitely guarantees that you are going into it with the person that God specifically chose for you. With that in mind, should mistakes cause you both to resort to divorce at the drop of a hat? Not really.

I think that TV01 is just pontificating and sermonizing. I don't believe he cares a damn about people caught in such troubles. What is Christlike about that? The Bible says of Christ that He does not quench a smoking wick or break a bruised reed. It also says that God knows our frame that we are dust. It says that the Spirit helps our infirmities. It also says that we ought to bear one another's burdens. What kind of help is he giving these wounded people telling them what they ought or ought not to have done with nary a suggestion of how they can find healing? That's why I call him self-righteous and sanctimonious.

As for abusive relationships, the fact is that they exist. People are getting killed in many ways in the homes they share with supposed best friends. Children are being destroyed on a daily basis by such relationships. No doubt, both parties involved in abuse are culpable. I actually hold that to be true. But I don't see our in-house defenders of the "institution of marriage" producing any worthwhile solution.

Not everyone who leans on a Bible and lives in a church is a Christian. And Christians can be mistaken about other people's relationship with God. Jesus Himself said that the elect can be deceived. Not all of us grow up enough spiritually in time to be able to identify impostors before we marry them. It's deplorable but reality. And when they've done it, there are consequences to suffer. What use is it to them lashing them all over again with continued reminders of their past foolishness? None, I say. Especially when they've repented.

There's a great deal of Christ that the vast majority of Christians are not in possession of. That is the reality and while we should exhort one another to learn Christ, we have no business bullying anyone into the deeper wonders of Him. When those of our brethren err because of their ignorance of Christ, our rebuke must be tempered with a quick eye for any sign of repentance which we must take hold of to restore them. Or else Satan will have the advantage of us.

This is what I hoped to bring to the fore with this discussion.

Finally, unless the two are Christians, not nominally but actually and truly, there is no real marital covenant. This is the Word of God. What we have in such a case is a sham. If one is a Christian and the other is pleased to remain in union with them, by all means, they should stay together. The presence of the Christian makes the marriage real and true. Upon a repudiation of that union (which I think is more often than not the case), the Christian is free to leave. Free even to remarry if the reader of 1 Corinthians 7 is honest.

Bearing that in mind, is abuse, whatever the sort, not evidence of displeasure with the union? Is divorce evident only when someone has filed papers? We are Christians, the deeper realities are committed to us for blessing this world around us. As such we ought to be able to address things beyond what is said/done/heard.

TV01:

Wealth is not in view here. We are discussing a fulfilling and harmonious marriage

OK

Does God fall short? Does The Lord fail to deliver? I can only testify of my own union. Uxury is us! Truth is we simply never have any "problems with each other". Troubles, yes, but we take comfort and strength in knowing we face them together. God is with us, His grace is on us. I simply will not deny Him. Neither myself or my wife have ever been physically threatening or abusive towards one another, never sworn at each other and never raised our voices at each other. We are deliriously happy. Like we say in boxing - yes 0, I boxed - train hard, fight easy. It's in the foundation. Built upon The Rock.

Bless ur union. I am happy u have a blissful marriage. Yours is a testimony that blesses the heart. However, it does not mean that bible believers that built on the rock still can't meet a brick wall in marriage. Are u denying that it's purely by God's grace your marriage is working? Forget that you think you know the principles, you should realise that it takes two to make this thing work. If your spouse starts misbehaving towards you, I bet u won't be finding it easy.

I am not canvassing for divorce. But I don't see why we should compel someone to live with an unrepentant abusive spouse all in the name of Christianity. If one spouse is not willing to do what it takes to make the marriage work, I don't believe it's right to hold the other spouse bound. I asked about handling sexual urges, but I guess that isn't important here.

It's not necessarily worse. Marriage just has it's own unique set of issues, which may or may not present themselves to individual marriages. We/I had troubles before we even married. It's why it's for the mature and committed.

Ok. But u will agree, they are additional issues anyway.

Is God capricious? Whimsical?? Why would He lead you into a bad marriage and then leave you there to be man or woman handled till divorce is your only remedy?

Let me throw the question back at you; why would God be so bothered about the success of your marriage in the first place when it was a choice you made after all. Marriage is one of the non-essentials of the Christian faith. Marriage is not compulsory, so, I don't believe God is bound to help you make it work esp. if it will affect your salvation/sanity. He cares about your general well being; spirit, soul and body. How you choose to live in that body, you will account for.

Do or die? I've always suspected that many marriages are simply manage-manage affairs of convenience, for the wrong reasons, at the wrong time, with wrong understanding and and woefully wrong expectations. That's not what God instituted, and not what we should aspire to. Your walk with God is between you and Him.

Are we done?

I guess so, cos it seems u are eager to close the chapter. But I will surely wanna have this conversation with you again some years down the line. I may not be a first hand case, hence no case study. But I believe there will be by then.

Let me bring this up again;

I asked this question some months back. I have a friend that has been subjected to abuse from her spouse for a while, it finally got out, they seperated for about a week, 3rd party got involved and they are now back together. However, she still can't connect sexually with her hubby. She has forgiven him, though he isn't truly repentant. His apologies are just mere lip service. How can she solve this intimacy issue and connect back with her husband? Divorce is not an option of course.

Ihedinobi:
Now this is where I believe that we have any real debate, if at all. Verse 15 says categorically that the believing spouse is not bound by the marital covenant if the unbelieving spouse repudiates it. And my pursuit of deeper meanings was to show how and that this makes perfect sense.

I think that TV01 is just pontificating and sermonizing. I don't believe he cares a damn about people caught in such troubles. What is Christlike about that? The Bible says of Christ that He does not quench a smoking wick or break a bruised reed. It also says that God knows our frame that we are dust. It says that the Spirit helps our infirmities. It also says that we ought to bear one another's burdens. What kind of help is he giving these wounded people telling them what they ought or ought not to have done with nary a suggestion of how they can find healing? That's why I call him self-righteous and sanctimonious.

As for abusive relationships, the fact is that they exist. People are getting killed in many ways in the homes they share with supposed best friends. Children are being destroyed on a daily basis by such relationships. No doubt, both parties involved in abuse are culpable. I actually hold that to be true. But I don't see our in-house defenders of the "institution of marriage" producing any worthwhile solution.

Not everyone who leans on a Bible and lives in a church is a Christian. And Christians can be mistaken about other people's relationship with God. Jesus Himself said that the elect can be deceived. Not all of us grow up enough spiritually in time to be able to identify impostors before we marry them. It's deplorable but reality. And when they've done it, there are consequences to suffer. What use is it to them lashing them all over again with continued reminders of their past foolishness? None, I say. Especially when they've repented.

There's a great deal of Christ that the vast majority of Christians are not in possession of. That is the reality and while we should exhort one another to learn Christ, we have no business bullying anyone into the deeper wonders of Him. When those of our brethren err because of their ignorance of Christ, our rebuke must be tempered with a quick eye for any sign of repentance which we must take hold of to restore them. Or else Satan will have the advantage of us.

This is what I hoped to bring to the fore with this discussion.

God bless you sir for this. I quite understand your position now. And it surely saves me the tym of reading from the scratch.

Finally, unless the two are Christians, not nominally but actually and truly, there is no real marital covenant. This is the Word of God. What we have in such a case is a sham. If one is a Christian and the other is pleased to remain in union with them, by all means, they should stay together. The presence of the Christian makes the marriage real and true. Upon a repudiation of that union (which I think is more often than not the case), the Christian is free to leave. Free even to remarry if the reader of 1 Corinthians 7 is honest.

Bearing that in mind, is abuse, whatever the sort, not evidence of displeasure with the union? Is divorce evident only when someone has filed papers? We are Christians, the deeper realities are committed to us for blessing this world around us. As such we ought to be able to address things beyond what is said/done/heard.

hmmm . . .

To the bloded, I say NO. If I have to leave my spouse today, I doubt I will file for a divorce except when the needed arises.

Tgirl4real:
I asked this question some months back. I have a friend that has been subjected to abuse from her spouse for a while, it finally got out, they seperated for about a week, 3rd party got involved and they are now back together. However, she still can't connect sexually with her hubby. She has forgiven him, though he isn't truly repentant. His apologies are just mere lip service. How can she solve this intimacy issue and connect back with her husband? Divorce is not an option of course.

This is a very serious case and also not surprising. A woman submits herself willingly each time she has sex (which is why sex is emotional for women and physical for men) and i can understand how difficult it feels to want to submit her body time and time again to a previous abuser. Your friend needs to go speak with a mature christian with her husband, if the husband isnt willing to repent then i think she has every right to leave the marriage.

davidylan:

This is a very serious case and also not surprising. A woman submits herself willingly each time she has s[i]e[/i]x (which is why s[i]e[/i]x is emotional for women and physical for me) and i can understand how difficult it feels to want to submit her body time and time again to a previous abuser. Your friend needs to go speak with a mature christian with her husband, if the husband isnt willing to repent then i think she has every right to leave the marriage.

I agree

davidylan:

This is a very serious case and also not surprising. A woman submits herself willingly each time she has s[i]e[/i]x (which is why s[i]e[/i]x is emotional for women and physical for me) and i can understand how difficult it feels to want to submit her body time and time again to a previous abuser. Your friend needs to go speak with a mature christian with her husband, if the husband isnt willing to repent then i think she has every right to leave the marriage.

I think u are the first guy on NL that understands this situation. I created a thread to discuss it then and people gave a lot of suggestions that didn't work. I believe the primary reason why she is still in that state is cos my hubby's attitude hasn't changed one bit and it makes it even more unbearable. She just doesn't want him touching her at all and he doesn't just understand why. She is yet to heal.

The thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/1001433/lack-intimacy-hubby

https://www.nairaland.com/1002122/marriage-sex-divorce-christianity

@ David,

If and when she eventually leaves, would she be sinning if she decides to re-marry?


TV01, still waiting for you.

Tgirl4real:

God bless you sir for this. I quite understand your position now. And it surely saves me the tym of reading from the scratch.

Glad I could help, ma'am

hmmm . . .

To the bloded, I say NO. If I have to leave my spouse today, I doubt I will file for a divorce except when the needed arises.

I can say with no doubt that breaking up is hard for anyone who wants to make the relationship work. That's why it's far easier to take the abuse than to leave. And I know firsthand what I'm talking about. However, abuse is itself a rejection of the abused. And this rejection is in reality divorce which the abused ought to accept as such. But, to fulfill all righteousness (and it is right and proper that Christians do), the papers should follow.

Tgirl4real: @ David,

If and when she eventually leaves, would she be sinning if she decides to re-marry?


TV01, still waiting for you.

Is it Christian for a man to do as her hubby did and not repent? By their fruits we shall know them. If in all this time there is yet no repentance, I believe 1 Cor 7:15 comes into play since the man has proved to be none of Christ's.

I say therefore that she's free to remarry. But does she really need to? That's what I think she should sort out.

Tgirl4real: @ David,

If and when she eventually leaves, would she be sinning if she decides to re-marry?


TV01, still waiting for you.

this is a hard question as somehow a lot of us christians tend to read the bible strictly by the letter (well you cant marry her as long as her husband aka the abuser is still alive). But i believe an abusive husband is NOT a believer in the first instance and by virtue of his violence has pretty much destroyed the marriage covenant. Left to me, if madam prayerfully finds another true christian man, she is not bound to her ex.
I do not for one second believe God intends for us to suffer for ending up in marriage to one willing to destroy us.

Why i am worried about the literal LETTER interpretation of the bible as against prayerful consideration is that i know MANY MANY christians who wont even consider marrying a single never-married parent. Considering this a sin.

Ihedinobi:
I think that TV01 is just pontificating and sermonizing. I don't believe he cares a damn about people caught in such troubles. What is Christlike about that? The Bible says of Christ that He does not quench a smoking wick or break a bruised reed. It also says that God knows our frame that we are dust. It says that the Spirit helps our infirmities. It also says that we ought to bear one another's burdens. What kind of help is he giving these wounded people telling them what they ought or ought not to have done with nary a suggestion of how they can find healing? That's why I call him self-righteous and sanctimonious.

I agree and i have been on the receiving end of this before... i have had to leave someone just because she did not fit the "biblical" model of a wife by other's standards. The funny thing though is that with benefit of hindsight, i cant help but realize she ended up being the girl with the best attributes of a christian wife i have ever been with. Thanks to her, i have very little patience with bible-breathing girls who pray 97 times a day, speak in tongues but are cantankerous, lazy and have a problem with understanding their roles as a wife in the home.

davidylan:

I agree and i have been on the receiving end of this before... i have had to leave someone just because she did not fit the "biblical" model of a wife by other's standards. The funny thing though is that with benefit of hindsight, i cant help but realize she ended up being the girl with the best attributes of a christian wife i have ever been with. Thanks to her, i have very little patience with bible-breathing girls who pray 97 times a day, speak in tongues but are cantankerous, lazy and have a problem with understanding their roles as a wife in the home.

lol @bolded. I feel your pain, bro.

Ihedinobi:

It most certainly has. In the thread from which this one spawned, I'd taken a stance that TV01 wanted explained. I started this one to address his questions and relate my position to the Bible. It was my intention and hope that the thread would naturally evolve into an examination of the Bible's position on abusive relationships.

For some reason, it didn't appear to suit TV01 to understand me and pursue a respectful and civil discussion into the issue on hand. His questions seemed to be an effort to misunderstand me. He has refused to take the opportunity I offered him to explain his intentions with them.

As you can see for yourself, his "tawdriness and general slowness" has all but disappeared now that he can teach people in abusive relationships how to live their lives.



Now this is where I believe that we have any real debate, if at all. Verse 15 says categorically that the believing spouse is not bound by the marital covenant if the unbelieving spouse repudiates it. And my pursuit of deeper meanings was to show how and that this makes perfect sense.



I think that TV01 is just pontificating and sermonizing. I don't believe he cares a damn about people caught in such troubles. What is Christlike about that? The Bible says of Christ that He does not quench a smoking wick or break a bruised reed. It also says that God knows our frame that we are dust. It says that the Spirit helps our infirmities. It also says that we ought to bear one another's burdens. What kind of help is he giving these wounded people telling them what they ought or ought not to have done with nary a suggestion of how they can find healing? That's why I call him self-righteous and sanctimonious.

As for abusive relationships, the fact is that they exist. People are getting killed in many ways in the homes they share with supposed best friends. Children are being destroyed on a daily basis by such relationships. No doubt, both parties involved in abuse are culpable. I actually hold that to be true. But I don't see our in-house defenders of the "institution of marriage" producing any worthwhile solution.

Not everyone who leans on a Bible and lives in a church is a Christian. And Christians can be mistaken about other people's relationship with God. Jesus Himself said that the elect can be deceived. Not all of us grow up enough spiritually in time to be able to identify impostors before we marry them. It's deplorable but reality. And when they've done it, there are consequences to suffer. What use is it to them lashing them all over again with continued reminders of their past foolishness? None, I say. Especially when they've repented.

There's a great deal of Christ that the vast majority of Christians are not in possession of. That is the reality and while we should exhort one another to learn Christ, we have no business bullying anyone into the deeper wonders of Him. When those of our brethren err because of their ignorance of Christ, our rebuke must be tempered with a quick eye for any sign of repentance which we must take hold of to restore them. Or else Satan will have the advantage of us.

This is what I hoped to bring to the fore with this discussion.

Finally, unless the two are Christians, not nominally but actually and truly, there is no real marital covenant. This is the Word of God. What we have in such a case is a sham. If one is a Christian and the other is pleased to remain in union with them, by all means, they should stay together. The presence of the Christian makes the marriage real and true. Upon a repudiation of that union (which I think is more often than not the case), the Christian is free to leave. Free even to remarry if the reader of 1 Corinthians 7 is honest.

Bearing that in mind, is abuse, whatever the sort, not evidence of displeasure with the union? Is divorce evident only when someone has filed papers? We are Christians, the deeper realities are committed to us for blessing this world around us. As such we ought to be able to address things beyond what is said/done/heard.

This is a bold scriptural humane approach to the realities on ground.

davidylan:

I agree and i have been on the receiving end of this before... i have had to leave someone just because she did not fit the "biblical" model of a wife by other's standards. The funny thing though is that with benefit of hindsight, i cant help but realize she ended up being the girl with the best attributes of a christian wife i have ever been with. Thanks to her, i have very little patience with bible-breathing girls who pray 97 times a day, speak in tongues but are cantankerous, lazy and have a problem with understanding their roles as a wife in the home.

Well said bruv. There is a lot of hyprocricy in Christiandom. I see a lot of bible believing, fire for fire christian marriages going down d drain everyday. These men married the most spiritual women of their time ignoring the ones that appear wordly but are truly believers at heart.

The reason why it appears that most christian marriages are working is cos of the bond of the church. A thorough soul search will reveal that these folks are miserable in their marriages. We see husbands take shyte from their wives cos they want to fit the model of a 'perfect husband'. Wives ride our their hubbys all in the name of equality. It's all sheer hyprocricy.

My hubby and I had a lot of issues at the early stage of our marriage. He wanted the early morning dovotion, 24hr tongue speaking, church activity driven kinda wife and he wasn't even ready to take the lead or live by example. I guess cos I had a good grasp of scriptures and I always emphasise living right he thot I was the typical 'tongue-speaking, demon binding, fire breathing' kinda church girl.

My approach to Christianity is strictly biblical. I don't do lip service and I am not a man pleaser

Tgirl4real:

Well said bruv. There is a lot of hyprocricy in Christiandom. I see a lot of bible believing, fire for fire christian marriages going down d drain everyday. These men married the most spiritual women of their time ignoring the ones that appear wordly but are truly believers at heart.

The reason why it appears that most christian marriages are working is cos of the bond of the church. A thorough soul search will reveal that these folks are miserable in their marriages. We see husbands take shyte from their wives cos they want to fit the model of a 'perfect husband'. Wives ride our their hubbys all in the name of equality. It's all sheer hyprocricy.

Out of respect for anonymity, i'm sure a lot of us, like me, have personal stories of this to tell to be honest. An uncle of mine is a reverend... hmmm his marriage has been a complete sham for the last 15 years but they remain together obviously as a front to the unsuspecting church members that indeed God is "in control". Those of us who know them on the inside cannot help but shake our heads in sorrow as the man weeps silently for the "mistake" he made.
Another uncle of mine was told NOT to marry his wife because she appeared worldly, was not part of the fire-breathing camp we all grew up in. He stuck it out for 4 yrs and finally married her against all opposition. My own mother literarily disliked her for years and spoke bad about her until i had the chance to live with them for 2 yrs. I had to basically tell her to keep quiet and go live with them to know that woman is one of the best things that every happened to my uncle! Today everyone is falling over themselves to wipe her feet - i guess being a top manager in an oil company also helps too.

The church of today = hypocrisy. Having grown up embedded in the church, i am now better able to sift the wheat from the chaff. Like i used to tell my mother, if Ruth or Rahab lived in our times... they would have been run out of town by the same people who use lift them as christian examples today.

Ruth ke...she would have been termed a cheap harlot that couldn't wait for a man to approach her.

Ihedinobi:

Is it Christian for a man to do as her hubby did and not repent? By their fruits we shall know them. If in all this time there is yet no repentance, I believe 1 Cor 7:15 comes into play since the man has proved to be none of Christ's.

I say therefore that she's free to remarry. But does she really need to? That's what I think she should sort out.

Yes, she might really not need to. Question is: how does she handle sexual urges? She is still pretty young. Would she just turn herself to compulsory nun? Can she have sex without being married?

Tgirl4real: Ruth ke...she would have been termed a cheap harlot that couldn't wait for a man to approach her.


Yes, she might really not need to. Question is: how does she handle sexual urges? She is still pretty young. Would she just turn herself to compulsory nun? Can she have sex without being married?

Heeeeeeee....... Make she jejeli go marry o. My hand no de dia if she no remarry o, no be me talk am o

Lol

Tgirl4real:
Bless ur union. I am happy u have a blissful marriage.

Thank you. Too kind.

Tgirl4real:
Yours is a testimony that blesses the heart. However, it does not mean that bible believers that built on the rock still can't meet a brick wall in marriage.

The use of the term "brick wall" is somewhat ambiguous? If that means problems, yes, but if it means it deteriorates to point it cannot endure, I need to know why?

Tgirl4real:
Are u denying that it's purely by God's grace your marriage is working? Forget that you think you know the principles, you should realise that it takes two to make this thing work. If your spouse starts misbehaving towards you, I bet u won't be finding it easy.

Absolutely by grace. Does that mean I can take the grace of God in vain and not apply the principles? And assume that the grace of God means I can take it for granted. Absolutely not.

- In as much as I work on my marriage, it's not from a base level. It's from a high degree of harmony, mutual affection, and a unified vision. We had this from the get-go. No mago-mago, no gamesmanship, no scheming. I'm still learning about my wife as an individual, understanding her better, to love her the more.

- Misbehaving? Why not use the term "abuse" and assume she's a psychopathic axe-weilding murderess - which is what many here do when it's a mans conduct that is in view .

- If my wife demonstrated conduct unbecoming, I'd want to know why. Firstly as her wellbeing is a top priority and secondly because I want no delterious things in or around my marriage.Note; not about me, my feelings or what I can bear. It's my sacrificial service to my wife , the health of my marriage and the well-being of my family.

- Then I'd address it with her as best I could, find the source and agree a solution together. I'd be on my knees as well. I won't believe that The Lord will abandon me. This would be even if we didn't marry as Christians and I'd converted.

Tgirl4real:
I am not canvassing for divorce. But I don't see why we should compel someone to live with an unrepentant abusive spouse all in the name of Christianity. If one spouse is not willing to do what it takes to make the marriage work, I don't believe it's right to hold the other spouse bound. I asked about handling sexual urges, but I guess that isn't important here.

- I am canvassing for marriage. As God intended it.
- Abusive? As in axe-wielding fire-starting "man" abi? I need to know the specifics. In any event I have oputlined my position severally
- So let me get this right. One - the woman - is a believing born-again (your term) Christian, and the other one is an unrepentant abusive male unbeliever? And he's not willing to make the marriage work. My question here is are you sure that he actually wants to be in the marriage?

Tgirl4real:
Ok. But u will agree, they are additional issues anyway.

Additional. I suppose And unique to marriage

Tgirl4real:
Let me throw the question back at you; why would God be so bothered about the success of your marriage in the first place when it was a choice you made after all. Marriage is one of the non-essentials of the Christian faith. Marriage is not compulsory, so, I don't believe God is bound to help you make it work esp. if it will affect your salvation/sanity. He cares about your general well being; spirit, soul and body. How you choose to live in that body, you will account for.

1. Because God is concerned about everything about those who are His.
2. Marriage is an institution established by God for mankind, for our good. How much more for His own?
3. No marriage is not essential to salvation if that's what you mean. But there is the "whole of life" while we are here on earth and marriage is a big part of that. And God cares
4. "Marriage is not compulsory" - I find this one of the most bogus and hypocrital - or plainly unthinking - statements I havbe heard on NL. If marriage is not compulsory, why is almost everyone married, has been married, plans to marry, or is fighting for divorce and re-marriage? Y'all are funny. Who is raising or planning to raise children with that ringing in there ears? So no, it's not "compulsory", but's it's instituted and prescribed - by God - and it's central to human society.

Tgirl4real:
I guess so, cos it seems u are eager to close the chapter. But I will surely wanna have this conversation with you again some years down the line. I may not be a first hand case, hence no case study. But I believe there will be by then.

Cool!

Tgirl4real:
Let me bring this up again;

I asked this question some months back. I have a friend that has been subjected to abuse from her spouse for a while, it finally got out, they seperated for about a week, 3rd party got involved and they are now back together. However, she still can't connect sexually with her hubby. She has forgiven him, though he isn't truly repentant. His apologies are just mere lip service. How can she solve this intimacy issue and connect back with her husband? Divorce is not an option of course.

I can't make assumptions about the "abuse". Having said that, I can comment.

In as much as there was mediation, a clear basis for reconciliation should have been outlined.
"Isn't truly repentant" The abuse has not stopped? or it has, but he's not really apologetic? I'll assume the latter, as action for the fromer would presumably be as before?

The abuse has stopped. Wifey is not satisfied that hubby is suitably apologetic? I will depart from the other views.

1. If she truly wants to stay in the marriage and is after the outcome of a harmonious, loving union, she needs to act it. As hard as it may be, she needs to see beyond her hurt.

2. It may take time, but she needs to resume the sacrificial posture of a good wife.

3. His part is to respond in turn - having been won over by her conduct - restoration will follow.

4. No mention of faith, but if it exists, work it.

I've spent so much time on replying your post TG,, I don't know if I have time to point out the schoolboy errors in some of the others.

Faithfully
TV

Interesting discussion so far - let me share a few of my own thoughts.

I understand TV01's position to an extent - you should start off with God directing you, you should be sustained by God's power, but guess what? What you should have done is not very useful when things have gone down the drain. God's instructions and His grace remain our first (and last) resort as Christians and we should never discount the power therein.

I do believe God wants us to remain in marriage not just to 'endure' but to truly enjoy it. However, what I do get worried about is the 'literal' biblical interpretation that insists you remain in the 'marriage' despite all odds (except for adultery of course). It almost paints God as someone who is only concerned with maintaining a 'marriage' (even if only in name) above all else - regardless of the experience of those in the marriage. I don't think this is the intent and this is where the lack of prescriptive direction in the bible for every conceivable scenario translates into each person 'working out his salvation with fear and trembling'.

As for 'disobeying' the biblical instruction and divorcing for other reasons other than those stated, I think that's in the realm of working out your own salvation. Do all you can to reconcile, but if that fails, do what you regard as best. Many of those who hold on so stringently to the 'literal' interpretation for keeping in marriage commit other sins elsewhere (doesn't make it right). Does God withhold forgiveness for some sins while forgiving others? Will God refuse to bless a new marriage after someone has 'failed' in a previous one?

Just a few thoughts.

debosky: Interesting discussion so far - let me share a few of my own thoughts.

I understand TV01's position to an extent - you should start off with God directing you, you should be sustained by God's power, but guess what? What you should have done is not very useful when things have gone down the drain. God's instructions and His grace remain our first (and last) resort as Christians and we should never discount the power therein.

I do believe God wants us to remain in marriage not just to 'endure' but to truly enjoy it. However, what I do get worried about is the 'literal' biblical interpretation that insists you remain in the 'marriage' despite all odds (except for adultery of course). It almost paints God as someone who is only concerned with maintaining a 'marriage' (even if only in name) above all else - regardless of the experience of those in the marriage. I don't think this is the intent and this is where the lack of prescriptive direction in the bible for every conceivable scenario translates into each person 'working out his salvation with fear and trembling'.

As for 'disobeying' the biblical instruction and divorcing for other reasons other than those stated, I think that's in the realm of working out your own salvation. Do all you can to reconcile, but if that fails, do what you regard as best. Many of those who hold on so stringently to the 'literal' interpretation for keeping in marriage commit other sins elsewhere (doesn't make it right). Does God withhold forgiveness for some sins while forgiving others? Will God refuse to bless a new marriage after someone has 'failed' in a previous one?

Just a few thoughts.

You said my mind.

Hmmm...

Thanks Debosky for chipping in. God bless u all.

@ TV01,

I get your point clearly and I am satisfied. Let me just answer some of the things u raised.

TV01:
The use of the term "brick wall" is somewhat ambiguous? If that means problems, yes, but if it means it deteriorates to point it cannot endure, I need to know why?

I mean problems big enough to shake the marriage to d point of breaking it. If they will eventually turn around to have a testimony, I don't know yet cos they are still in progress.

Absolutely by grace. Does that mean I can take the grace of God in vain and not apply the principles? And assume that the grace of God means I can take it for granted. Absolutely not.

Absolutely not.

- In as much as I work on my marriage, it's not from a base level. It's from a high degree of harmony, mutual affection, and a unified vision. We had this from the get-go. No mago-mago, no gamesmanship, no scheming. I'm still learning about my wife as an individual, understanding her better, to love her the more.

I guess dis is where some of us get it wrong from the word go. We don't set things right properly. Some times we do, but humans can be deceptive.

- Misbehaving? Why not use the term "abuse" and assume she's a psychopathic axe-weilding murderess - which is what many here do when it's a mans conduct that is in view .

U got me lol here. Does it have to get to that level b4 it is accepted as abuse?

- If my wife demonstrated conduct unbecoming, I'd want to know why. Firstly as her wellbeing is a top priority and secondly because I want no delterious things in or around my marriage.Note; not about me, my feelings or what I can bear. It's my sacrificial service to my wife , the health of my marriage and the well-being of my family.

- Then I'd address it with her as best I could, find the source and agree a solution together. I'd be on my knees as well. I won't believe that The Lord will abandon me. This would be even if we didn't marry as Christians and I'd converted.

I see d point u are emphasising. Not about self, but d general well being of the family. That's still a 50-50 chance. It doesn't mean it can't go otherwise if ur partner refuses to change. Most times we endure and live with what we can't change. If not, we will end up changing spouses.

- I am canvassing for marriage. As God intended it.
- Abusive? As in axe-wielding fire-starting "man" abi? I need to know the specifics. In any event I have oputlined my position severally

Lol at axe-weilding fire-starting. I thot I also made it clear that I see psychological abuse as equal or even greater than physical. And abuse can go both ways...d men are not d only guilty party.

- So let me get this right. One - the woman - is a believing born-again (your term) Christian, and the other one is an unrepentant abusive male unbeliever? And he's not willing to make the marriage work. My question here is are you sure that he actually wants to be in the marriage?

Well, since we aint looking at a particular case study, I can't really say. I refer to him as an unbeliever cos he is unrepentant. Secondly, some people will not come out straight with their intentions. Actions speak louder than words.

1. Because God is concerned about everything about those who are His.
2. Marriage is an institution established by God for mankind, for our good. How much more for His own?
3. No marriage is not essential to salvation if that's what you mean. But there is the "whole of life" while we are here on earth and marriage is a big part of that. And God cares

Thanks for exhortation.

4. "Marriage is not compulsory" - I find this one of the most bogus and hypocrital - or plainly unthinking - statements I havbe heard on NL. If marriage is not compulsory, why is almost everyone married, has been married, plans to marry, or is fighting for divorce and re-marriage? Y'all are funny. Who is raising or planning to raise children with that ringing in there ears? So no, it's not "compulsory", but's it's instituted and prescribed - by God - and it's central to human society.

No matter how ambigous or hypocritocal it may sound, it is the truth. Our fighting for it just goes to show our limitations as humans and that we are actually more carnal minded than spiritual.

If u marry u sin not. If u don't, u sin not. But the unmarried devote more time to the things of the Lord. It is written in the bible. Have the context in mind please.

Thanks so much. I really appreciate the time. Right now, I'm more concerned about this;

In as much as there was mediation, a clear basis for reconciliation should have been outlined.
"Isn't truly repentant" The abuse has not stopped? or it has, but he's not really apologetic? I'll assume the latter, as action for the fromer would presumably be as before?

Well, promises of it will never happen again and d usual crap. The hubby is not really apologetic or better put not so remorseful which could only mean that the abuse may continue. He is not really making effort at winning her love back. He expects things to just go back to normal without considering her feelings or make-up.

The abuse has stopped. Wifey is not satisfied that hubby is suitably apologetic? I will depart from the other views.

1. If she truly wants to stay in the marriage and is after the outcome of a harmonious, loving union, she needs to act it. As hard as it may be, she needs to see beyond her hurt.

2. It may take time, but she needs to resume the sacrificial posture of a good wife.

3. His part is to respond in turn - having been won over by her conduct - restoration will follow.

4. No mention of faith, but if it exists, work it.

This is the biblical approach. I pray we have positive story to tell afterwards.
Her fear is trusting and loving him just to be bitten again. She doesn't want to be hurt a second time.

I've spent so much time on replying your post TG.

Faithfully
TV

Thanks. I appreciate.

I would like to respond well to this topic, but its late and am using my phone, but reading through the whole thread, I fully understand Tv's point of view, which in summary is that if you follow God and trust in him totally he won't stare you wrong, from teaching you how to choose the right spouse, to teaching how to behave to get the best out of your spouse, that is the God way and by his grace we all pray to get that kind of marriage. Now the Ihedinobi point of view from what I see has its own merits too, though there are points I disagree with(your definition of what an illegal marriage is it throws up all sorts of wrong, so if you have not being married to you spouse and you get intimate with them, what sin are you committing then) sorry for the small interlude, but yes i also get your point about when your spouse is abusive,let them be apart, now being apart is different from re-marrying. Now the 1cor 7:15 you hinge your argument about says "but if the unbeliving depart, let him depart." Nothing was mentioned her about the believer that means the beliver is obligated to stay. And as davidlyn stated you can be apart but not allowed to marry, plus the whole chapter of the 1 cor 7 from 12 he said "but to the rest speak I, not the lord:" that means at that point it was his opinion. But God's opionion was put fort in verse 10 "and to the married I command, (yet) not I, but the lord, let not the wife depart from (her)husband. 11 but and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or to be reconciled to (her) husband and let not the husband put away (his) wife. Now to be clear in verse 8 and 9 he clearly spoke to the single ladies and widows saying if you can't hold body, please marry so you don't burn. I hope this answers your question Tgirl for your friend. If she can't stay in the marriage and she wants to seperate, then let her do so, but she should not re-marry. That's what the bible says. As for me hmmmm its gonna be a tough one, how to manage hold body. Sorry for the wrong spellings and co please forgive me.