carefreewannabe:

Me, too.

I am so curious IF he will still argue in the woman's best interest

lets wait and see because asking the girl to actually carry the baby to term is more traumatic than an abortion

carefreewannabe: ok, what IF the girl doesn't want to go through the pregnancy that reminds her of this horrible incident?
would YOU force her to do so?
what IF she doesn't want to keep the baby, neither give it away and deal with the fact that her child grows up somewhere else.

Decisions made under bitterness, sorrow, shock, confusion..conditions etc. Are regretted later in life believe me.

My advice would be to let her have the baby, then put her through some rehabilitation process...with time, and when the wounds on her soul must have been healed, she come to love accept the child, and be thankful that it wasn't aborted.

CrazyMan:
Decisions made under bitterness, sorrow, shock, confusion..conditions etc. Are regretted later in life believe me.

My advice would be to let her have the baby, then put her through some rehabilitation process...with time, and when the wounds on her soul must have been healed, she come to love accept the child, and be thankful that it wasn't aborted.

Look! I have never been molested, neither have I had an unwanted pregnancy. Yet, I know that I don't want to have a child from a rap.ist.
Therefore, the argument that a decision made under bitterness, shock, confusion conditions is not valid.

Then, have you ever talked to a woman who got a child as a consequence of rap.e? I have. And I can tell you that no therapist could help her not to have feelings of hatred towards the child. Even though she knew that the child was innocent, maternal feelings that the child needed couldn't be developed.

It's good that you are an advocate of life BUT a woman's life is of value too and can be destroyed by an unwanted pregnancy under the circumstances of rape. So let women decide for themselves. They have to deal with the consequences, not you.

Mynd_44:
lets wait and see because asking the girl to actually carry the baby to term is more traumatic than an abortion

Let the girl decide what is best for her. For some it will be abortion, for others adoption. Some will want to keep the baby.

very tricky.
How many ladies would abort if JZ molested them or any other famous and admired world celeb?
I am sure many would abort because the molester is a useless pathetic nobody and so the baby is viewed as such.
I can't tell.

Inasmuch as I'm against the whole idea of abortion, honestly if i were molested and pregnant my one and only thought will be to get rid of that child.

R.ape does a lot to the victims psych, having a constant reminder of the horror could slowly kill you in the absence of God's grace. I can't promise to love that child as i should, and I'll feel worse hating it for a crime it didn't commit than killing it in the first place.

carefreewannabe: Let the girl decide what is best for her. For some it will be abortion, for others adoption. Some will want to keep the baby.

In cases where your emotions is badly affected (e.g rape), its not wise to take decisions on your own...cos you might have regrets...a better advice would be to confide in an elderly person.

Let me give you an example...suppose you get robbed off your last penny, and you were reduced to trekking a 20km road under the scorching sun....let's say you miraculously get home alive, and find a mob beating the same people who robbed you...and they're crying and begging for mercy, would you listen to them...you won't..infact you would even join in the beating..why because your emotions have been badly affected.

But suppose you happen to see them 5 years time...probably in a cell telling you they're now born again christians and have changed and all that...your reply to them even if you don't forgive them would be quit different from how it would have been when your soul was still terribly wounded...you would even be glad that they're alive and a changed people.

Now do you get what I'm trying to say?

uj_sizzle: Inasmuch as I'm against the whole idea of abortion, honestly if i were molested and pregnant my one and only thought will be to get rid of that child.

R.ape does a lot to the victims psych, having a constant reminder of the horror could slowly kill you in the absence of God's grace. I can't promise to love that child as i should, and I'll feel worse hating it for a crime it didn't commit than killing it in the first place.

Thank you

carefreewannabe:
Look! I have never been molested, neither have I had an unwanted pregnancy. Yet, I know that I don't want to have a child from a rap.ist.
Therefore, the argument that a decision made under bitterness, shock, confusion conditions is not valid.

Then you probably shouldn't be the one blowing the trumpet here..because you have no idea of what it feels like to be r.aped.

carefreewannabe: Then, have you ever talked to a woman who got a child as a consequence of rap.e? I have. And I can tell you that no therapist could help her not to have feelings of hatred towards the child. Even though she knew that the child was innocent, maternal feelings that the child needed couldn't be developed.

She probably had the child under her trauma...

carefreewannabe: It's good that you are an advocate of life BUT a woman's life is of value too and can be destroyed by an unwanted pregnancy under the circumstances of rape. So let women decide for themselves. They have to deal with the consequences, not you.

True...but advising a r.aped victim to make decisions herself isn't wise.

Are YOU telling me to NOT BLOW THE TRUMPET BECAUSE I have never been raped nor have had an unwanted pregnancy? WHO ARE YOU? A MAN!
YOU are not even able to become pregnant!!!!!! So before YOU tell ME or ANY WOMAN how to go on about rap.e and unwanted pregnancy, you should STOP TALKING FIRST! 'CAUSE YOU HAVE THE LEAST IDEA OF WHAT IT IS LIKE. You have set yourself a trap.

I have made my decision not have a baby from a r.apist a long time ago!
So if something horrible like that happens to me, God forbid, I made the decision before I became a victim and traumatized. Get it, please.

Most women think of what they would do in such a case BEFORE it even happens.
And just because someone is traumatized, it doesn't mean that YOU have the right to decide for them.
Besides THERE ARE WOMEN who had abortions because of r.ape and NEVER regretted it.
And even if they have regrets, they have them because of THEIR OWN decision NOT BECAUSE OF YOUR DECISION. IT'S THEIR LIFE! NOT YOURS!

Hmmm. See wahala oo

It is argued that in these tragic cases the great value of the mental health of a woman who becomes pregnant as a result of rape or incest can best be safe-guarded by abortion. It is also said that a pregnancy caused by rape or incest is the result of a grave injustice and that the victim should not be obliged to carry the fetus to viability. This would keep reminding her for nine months of the violence committed against her and would just increase her mental anguish. It is reasoned that the value of the woman's mental health is greater than the value of the fetus. In addition, it is maintained that the fetus is an aggressor against the woman's integrity and personal life; it is only just and morally defensible to repel an aggressor even by killing him if that is the only way to defend personal and human values. It is concluded, then, that abortion is justified in these cases.
Andrew Varga

hornipipe: It is argued that in these tragic cases the great value of the mental health of a woman who becomes pregnant as a result of rape or incest can best be safe-guarded by abortion. It is also said that a pregnancy caused by rape or incest is the result of a grave injustice and that the victim should not be obliged to carry the fetus to viability. This would keep reminding her for nine months of the violence committed against her and would just increase her mental anguish. It is reasoned that the value of the woman's mental health is greater than the value of the fetus. In addition, it is maintained that the fetus is an aggressor against the woman's integrity and personal life; it is only just and morally defensible to repel an aggressor even by killing him if that is the only way to defend personal and human values. It is concluded, then, that abortion is justified in these cases.
Andrew Varga

I don't agree with every single point but I basically agree with this position. Thank you!

Im not gonna lie or pretend, if I was in a situation where I was raped and got pregnant, I would immediately terminate the pregnancy.

carefreewannabe: Are YOU telling me to NOT BLOW THE TRUMPET BECAUSE I have never been raped nor have had an unwanted pregnancy? WHO ARE YOU? A MAN!
YOU are not even able to become pregnant!!!!!! So before YOU tell ME or ANY WOMAN how to go on about rap.e and unwanted pregnancy, you should STOP TALKING FIRST! 'CAUSE YOU HAVE THE LEAST IDEA OF WHAT IT IS LIKE. You have set yourself a trap.

Stop being irrational...you made it clear that you have zero knowledge on rape...you've never been a victim, and I don't pray for you to become one.

If you haven't experienced something, avoid throwing conclusion based on what you think.

I've had the opportunity to console a r.ape victim, and believe me misguided comments such as this gibberish (telling her to decide for herself) you're typing isn't a wise move.

You're ranting here because you probably haven't sat with a r.ped victim one on one for 30minutes.

Its not as easy as you think...most of them find it very difficult trusting people..so if you have the opportunity to speak to anyone...I would suggest you choose your words carefully.

CrazyMan:
Stop being irrational...you made it clear that you have zero knowledge on rape...you've never been a victim, and I don't pray for you to become one.

If you haven't experienced something, avoid throwing conclusion based on what you think.

I've had the opportunity to console a r.ape victim, and believe me misguided comments such as this gibberish (telling her to decide for herself) you're typing isn't a wise move.

You're ranting here because you probably haven't sat with a r.ped victim one on one for 30minutes.

Its not as easy as you think...most of them find it very difficult trusting people..so if you have the opportunity to speak to anyone...I would suggest you choose your words carefully.

Oh, have YOU been molested? If not, then follow your own advice. Thank you.

candieangel12: Im not gonna lie or pretend, if I was in a situation where I was raped and got pregnant, I would immediately terminate the pregnancy.

Stop ranting like a kid...cos abortion is not as easy as you think.

Its for heartless girls...girls with zero conscience.

Do you think its easy to walk into a clinic and say hi..I want an abortion...get real dear...

CrazyMan:
Stop ranting like a kid...cos abortion is not as easy as you think.

Its for heartless girls...girls with zero conscience.

If you haven't been molested, shut your mouth. Your own advice.

Call me heartless, it's more heartless to have a child you can't love. I have seen cases like this, have you? No? Again, don't talk about things you have no idea about.

Every woman has the right to abortion be it because of rape, unwanted pregnancy, health issues, etc. If a woman is raped, she should decide herself what she wants to do with the pregnancy. I dont think it is ethical for any person to make the choice for the woman. You can advice her, but dont pressurize her into doing something she will live to regret.

CrazyMan:
Stop ranting like a kid...cos abortion is not as easy as you think.

Its for heartless girls...girls with zero conscience.

Do you think its easy to walk into a clinic and say hi..I want an abortion...get real dear...

And who the fukc told you I am ranting? U r a man, u dont know what it takes to carry a baby for 9 months and deliver it not to talk of when the baby resulted from rape. I'd rather walk into a clinic and ask for an abortion and start going for therapy to help heal the trauma of being raped than to carry an unwanted child in my womb for 9 months and then deliver it. Call me heartless, I dont give a fukc, im just making the best decision for myself.

Hmm. This is getting really interesting

carefreewannabe:

I don't agree with every single point but I basically agree with this position. Thank you!

Mynd_44: Hmm. This is getting really interesting

its getting really boring rather

@CrazyMan

The trust is you can NEVER understand what it's like to be molested. You're a man, u couldn't possibly get the feeling. A woman who has never been raped can relate better with this than you would as a man cause r.ape is every womans nightmare.

carefreewannabe:
If you haven't been molested, shut your mouth. Your own advice.

Call me heartless, it's more heartless to have a child you can't love. I have seen cases like this, have you? No? Again, don't talk about things you have no idea about.

No you should shut up.

Your arguments have no roots.

1. You've never been r.aped...your own words.

2. You lack experience...you've never had the opportunity to console a r.ped victim...I have.

3. You post arguments based on your opinion....very illogical considering the fact that a r.aped victim has to be consoled based on reality and not how you feel.

Killing a child wouldn't make her feel any better...because the thought of how she was r.aped would still hunt her...killing that child would make her more guilty..and for you to even bring up such suggestion only shows how heartless you are.

What makes you feel she would hate the child, why do you feel the child is evil and would you vent your anger on an innocent baby simply because of a crime its father committed? Be reasonable and speak like a matured person.

You should be thinking of making that child become significant in life...and not aborting it...think like a human for once...life is precious...it must be conserved not wasted.

CrazyMan:
No you should shut up.

Your arguments have no roots.

1. You've never been r.aped...your own words.

2. You lack experience...you've never had the opportunity to console a r.ped victim...I have.

3. You post arguments based on your opinion....very illogical considering the fact that a r.aped victim has to be consoled based on reality and not how you feel.

Killing a child wouldn't make her feel any better...because the thought of how she was r.aped would still hunt her...killing that child would make her more guilty..and for you to even bring up such suggestion only shows how heartless you are.

What makes you feel she would hate the child, why do you feel the child is evil and would you vent your anger on an innocent baby simply because of a crime its father committed? Be reasonable and speak like a matured person.

You should be thinking of making that child become significant in life...and not aborting it...think like a human for once...life is precious...it must be conserved not wasted.

1. Who told you I have never consoled a victim of rape?

2. YOU said someone who wasn't r.aped shouldn't talk. Why are you still talking?

3. Bold: Have seen TWO mothers who experienced EXACTLY this.

carefreewannabe:
1. Who told you I have never consoled a victim of rape?

And no doubt....you told her to kill the baby..without thinking of giving the poor child a chance to live.

carefreewannabe: 2. YOU said someone who wasn't r.aped shouldn't talk. Why are you still talking?

Then in that case we should both keep shut.

carefreewannabe: 3. Bold: Have seen TWO mothers who experienced EXACTLY this.

Really...maybe you should do a little search on steve jobbs...

If his teenage mother didn't give him up for adoption, you probably wouldn't have know anything called ipad and ipod.

Before you go about preaching your murderous crusade...put into consideration the future of that child and ask yourself, if its right to punish this innocent baby.

1. I am not like you and tell people what they HAVE to do. I only tell people what options they have and let them decide for themselves. I respect people and therefore encourage them to make their own decisions. Am a fan of freedom.

2. It wasn't my advice to NOT talk when you weren't a vicitim of r.ape. It was YOURS. I don't have to follow your advice but it would make sense if you did what YOU suggest others SHOULD do.

3. I don't care about Steve Jobbs. May his soul rest in peace. I know him and if it wasn't him who invited these gadgets, someone else would. I wouldn't die if nobody did. It's cool but not as cool as fining cure for some deadly diseases which can't be found because of people like you. I'm talking about therapeutic cloning but that's another topic and not meant for the romance section.

I have said enough. I accept and respect your stand on abortion and wish you would respect the opinion of other people as well without calling them murderer. This is just another way to harm people / victims.

BTW, go and visit several orphanages before you talk about Mr Jobbs and then tell me what you see there.

Awesome!

Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions....

You stated your conclusion, now I would state mine....

Now you would ask..."Shouldn't the woman who is r.aped be able to have an abortion?"

There are various reasons why abortion is not the answer.

The woman who has been r.aped has undergone a terrible trauma and injustice. She needs care, she needs love...

Will an abortion help her? First of all, the abortion will not un-r.ape the woman.

The tragedy has happened and nothing can change the past. Second, abortion brings a trauma of its own.

To see abortion as a magic wand that brings relief but no pain is to ignore the pain of countless women who suffer for years and decades after abortion.

I know of women who have been raped and then had abortions, and are in counseling not for the rape but for the abortion! In rape, the trauma is "Someone hurt me." In abortion, the trauma is "I hurt and killed someone else -- my child." That brings even more grief.

Why is rape wrong? Because someone attacks the body of an innocent person. Why is abortion wrong? Because someone attacks the body of an innocent person. That is why both rape and abortion should be rejected.

If you care about the woman who is raped, I care for her also and I also care about the child who is conceived. So why can't we love them both? Why can't we protect them both?

A rape that results in pregnancy directly involves three people: the rapist, the victim, and the child.

The victim should be helped, and the rapist should be punished. But to say the child should be killed is to punish the wrong person.

Suppose your father committed a terrible crime and the police came to your home, arrested you, and had you sentenced to death? The unfairness of that is obvious. Yet that is the same unfairness that occurs if a child conceived by rape is aborted.

Ponder on this and thanks for your time.....