Zikkyy01:

Lol! Bros I never experience this kind thing before. Don't know how it works. Anyways am sure its because my tithe is outstanding. It will resolved as soon as I remit my tithe.

Ah Oga Zikky, I see say you don get your proper mojo back. E go be the spambot - dem don even give am one kind name like that sef. The thing been catch me too on one occasion like that.

Enuwe, keep doing what you're doing.

Bidam:
The law defines our expected behavior..it is NOT LEGALISM..DON'T USE BABYLON(WORLDLY SYSTEMS) TO DEFINE GOD'S LAWS AND PRINCIPLES..THEY ARE FAR ABOVE THE WORLDY SYSTEMS.

It is very much 'legalism'. Adherence to the law is usually because the law requires it. Take the case of the father lays down certain rules for the son (defined as expected behavior), i.e. "you must do your homework when you come back from school" (punishment might be the son will be denied of his favorite program on t.v.); "you must go to bed by 10p.m., no late night t.v"; "if you must go out with friends, i want you back latest 8.00p.m". Now we know parents do this out of love for their children, but the reaction will be different from the child's end; It's most likely a stubborn child that requires these rules. without these rules, it's possible the child will not be doing his homework as required, and keep late nights. Consider a situation where there is a strong relationship between son and father, where son understands the love and wishes of the father for him; a relationship where the son 'trusts' the father's guidance; where the son knows the father want the best for him, the son will not be needing the set of rules to the right thing. He knows the father wants him to excel, there will be no rules for doing the homework; he is not going to wait for threats from the father, he will do his homework and put in extra efforts to get good grades.

So what can we say is the purpose of the law?

"According to Paul, the law has a negative purpose: It was added because of transgressions. Paul has already demonstrated what the law does not do: it does not make anyone righteous before God; it is not based on faith; it is not the basis of inheritance. So if the law is divorced from righteousness, faith and inheritance of the blessing, to what is law related? Paul says that the law is related to transgressions. A transgression is the violation of a standard. The law provides the objective standard by which the violations are measured. In order for sinners to know how sinful they really are, how far they deviate from God's standards, God gave the law. Before the law was given, there was sin (see Rom 5:13). But after the law was given, sin could be clearly specified and measured (see Rom 3:20; 4:15; 7:7). Each act or attitude could then be labeled as a transgression of this or that commandment of the law......

.....In order to clarify the relation of the law to the promise, Paul poses a contrary-to-fact hypothesis: If a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. The very way that Paul phrases this hypothesis (as a contrary-to-fact conditional statement) indicates that he does not for a moment think the law can impart life. By life Paul means living in right relationship with God: "that I might live for God". If the law could empower one to live in a right relationship with God, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. This was in fact the position of the rival teachers in the Galatian churches. They were promoting the law as the way to live for God. It was actually their position that set the law in direct opposition to the promise; it contradicted the gospel. For as Paul has already said, "if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"......

.....By reducing all to the level of sinners, the law prepares the way for the gospel. But neither should the law be viewed as if it were the same as the gospel. The law has a negative purpose: it makes us aware of our sin. But it does not, indeed it cannot, set us free from bondage to sin. The promise of blessing comes only through faith in Christ.The Law Is a Jailer and a Disciplinarian....

.....The Mosaic law was given not only as a permanent standard for all humanity but also as a temporary system to supervise a particular people. As we read through the Mosaic law we are impressed with a complex system of laws that were set in place to guide the conduct of the Jewish people. According to Paul's imagery, the law functioned as a jailer to lock up the Jewish people in a vast system of legal codes and regulations. But that lockup was meant to be only temporary...."

The above is an extract from another argument, i lifted some portion that has to do with the purpose of the law as i see it aligns with my thoughts. You can find the full article here - - - > http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Gal/Understanding-Law

Stipulating a fixed % of giving was required because the Israelite would not have supported their brothers from the tribe of Levi. We have gone beyond just complying with the requirement of the law. You need to look at the underlying source of the law, which just as stated by Christ is love. The reason Christ in Mathew 5:23-24 made the comment below:

Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

If a tither had not adopted a legalistic approach to the law, why would he/she abandon (or pass by) a brother/sister in serious need and render his tithe first (on the ground that the tithe is more important)? A behavior that does not align with Christ comment above.

The law for us as Christians is not in the form of written codes, our connection with God is not based on a list of dos & don'ts, it is based on our relationship with Christ. We fulfill the law by trusting in Christ and allowing the spirit of God to lead us.

Romans 8:14 (NKJV)
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Enigma:

Ah Oga Zikky, I see say you don get your proper mojo back. E go be the spambot - dem don even give am one kind name like that sef. The thing been catch me too on one occasion like that.

no be small thing o! In fact am going to tithe something this Sunday to celebrate my freedom.

Enigma:
Enuwe, keep doing what you're doing.

Thank you bros.

Bidam: And stop dat foolish thinking of yours by saying God only spoke to the isrealites in the OT concerning tithes and offering..the Isrealities are just Types of what is to come..

Type of what?

Bidam:
We are priest and Jesus is our High priest in the order of melchizedek..we pay our tithes to Jesus and not the temple..

Since there is no command to ignore the temple and pay tithe to Jesus, don't you think you are taking away from the law? The law says tithe to levite and even Jesus approved that levite should receive the tithe, why are you not adhering to the law? Did Jesus tell you to tithe to him?

Oga Zikky......I have to confess, without any contradiction, the below is a master piece. May God increase you in his knowledge. Our tithe brothers can't simply get it and refused to get it - The law was given for a purpose and had since completed the purpose for which it was given. We do no longer need the law since it was given to lead people to faith and Grace. Below is masterpiece!

Zikkyy:

It is very much 'legalism'. Adherence to the law is usually because the law requires it. Take the case of the father lays down certain rules for the son (defined as expected behavior), i.e. "you must do your homework when you come back from school" (punishment might be the son will be denied of his favorite program on t.v.); "you must go to bed by 10p.m., no late night t.v"; "if you must go out with friends, i want you back latest 8.00p.m". Now we know parents do this out of love for their children, but the reaction will be different from the child's end; It's most likely a stubborn child that requires these rules. without these rules, it's possible the child will not be doing his homework as required, and keep late nights. Consider a situation where there is a strong relationship between son and father, where son understands the love and wishes of the father for him; a relationship where the son 'trusts' the father's guidance; where the son knows the father want the best for him, the son will not be needing the set of rules to the right thing. He knows the father wants him to excel, there will be no rules for doing the homework; he is not going to wait for threats from the father, he will do his homework and put in extra efforts to get good grades.

So what can we say is the purpose of the law?

"According to Paul, the law has a negative purpose: It was added because of transgressions. Paul has already demonstrated what the law does not do: it does not make anyone righteous before God; it is not based on faith; it is not the basis of inheritance. So if the law is divorced from righteousness, faith and inheritance of the blessing, to what is law related? Paul says that the law is related to transgressions. A transgression is the violation of a standard. The law provides the objective standard by which the violations are measured. In order for sinners to know how sinful they really are, how far they deviate from God's standards, God gave the law. Before the law was given, there was sin (see Rom 5:13). But after the law was given, sin could be clearly specified and measured (see Rom 3:20; 4:15; 7:7). Each act or attitude could then be labeled as a transgression of this or that commandment of the law......

.....In order to clarify the relation of the law to the promise, Paul poses a contrary-to-fact hypothesis: If a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. The very way that Paul phrases this hypothesis (as a contrary-to-fact conditional statement) indicates that he does not for a moment think the law can impart life. By life Paul means living in right relationship with God: "that I might live for God". If the law could empower one to live in a right relationship with God, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. This was in fact the position of the rival teachers in the Galatian churches. They were promoting the law as the way to live for God. It was actually their position that set the law in direct opposition to the promise; it contradicted the gospel. For as Paul has already said, "if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"......

.....By reducing all to the level of sinners, the law prepares the way for the gospel. But neither should the law be viewed as if it were the same as the gospel. The law has a negative purpose: it makes us aware of our sin. But it does not, indeed it cannot, set us free from bondage to sin. The promise of blessing comes only through faith in Christ.The Law Is a Jailer and a Disciplinarian....

.....The Mosaic law was given not only as a permanent standard for all humanity but also as a temporary system to supervise a particular people. As we read through the Mosaic law we are impressed with a complex system of laws that were set in place to guide the conduct of the Jewish people. According to Paul's imagery, the law functioned as a jailer to lock up the Jewish people in a vast system of legal codes and regulations. But that lockup was meant to be only temporary...."

The above is an extract from another argument, i lifted some portion that has to do with the purpose of the law as i see it aligns with my thoughts. You can find the full article here - - - > http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Gal/Understanding-Law

Stipulating a fixed % of giving was required because the Israelite would not have supported their brothers from the tribe of Levi. We have gone beyond just complying with the requirement of the law. You need to look at the underlying source of the law, which just as stated by Christ is love. The reason Christ in Mathew 5:23-24 made the comment below:

Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

If a tither had not adopted a legalistic approach to the law, why would he/she abandon (or pass by) a brother/sister in serious need and render his tithe first (on the ground that the tithe is more important)? A behavior that does not align with Christ comment above.

The law for us as Christians is not in the form of written codes, our connection with God is not based on a list of dos & don'ts, it is based on our relationship with Christ. We fulfill the law by trusting in Christ and allowing the spirit of God to lead us.

Romans 8:14 (NKJV)
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Zikkyy:

It is very much 'legalism'. Adherence to the law is usually because the law requires it. Take the case of the father lays down certain rules for the son (defined as expected behavior), i.e. "you must do your homework when you come back from school" (punishment might be the son will be denied of his favorite program on t.v.); "you must go to bed by 10p.m., no late night t.v"; "if you must go out with friends, i want you back latest 8.00p.m". Now we know parents do this out of love for their children, but the reaction will be different from the child's end; It's most likely a stubborn child that requires these rules. without these rules, it's possible the child will not be doing his homework as required, and keep late nights. Consider a situation where there is a strong relationship between son and father, where son understands the love and wishes of the father for him; a relationship where the son 'trusts' the father's guidance; where the son knows the father want the best for him, the son will not be needing the set of rules to the right thing. He knows the father wants him to excel, there will be no rules for doing the homework; he is not going to wait for threats from the father, he will do his homework and put in extra efforts to get good grades.

So what can we say is the purpose of the law?

"According to Paul, the law has a negative purpose: It was added because of transgressions. Paul has already demonstrated what the law does not do: it does not make anyone righteous before God; it is not based on faith; it is not the basis of inheritance. So if the law is divorced from righteousness, faith and inheritance of the blessing, to what is law related? Paul says that the law is related to transgressions. A transgression is the violation of a standard. The law provides the objective standard by which the violations are measured. In order for sinners to know how sinful they really are, how far they deviate from God's standards, God gave the law. Before the law was given, there was sin (see Rom 5:13). But after the law was given, sin could be clearly specified and measured (see Rom 3:20; 4:15; 7:7). Each act or attitude could then be labeled as a transgression of this or that commandment of the law......

.....In order to clarify the relation of the law to the promise, Paul poses a contrary-to-fact hypothesis: If a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. The very way that Paul phrases this hypothesis (as a contrary-to-fact conditional statement) indicates that he does not for a moment think the law can impart life. By life Paul means living in right relationship with God: "that I might live for God". If the law could empower one to live in a right relationship with God, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. This was in fact the position of the rival teachers in the Galatian churches. They were promoting the law as the way to live for God. It was actually their position that set the law in direct opposition to the promise; it contradicted the gospel. For as Paul has already said, "if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"......

.....By reducing all to the level of sinners, the law prepares the way for the gospel. But neither should the law be viewed as if it were the same as the gospel. The law has a negative purpose: it makes us aware of our sin. But it does not, indeed it cannot, set us free from bondage to sin. The promise of blessing comes only through faith in Christ.The Law Is a Jailer and a Disciplinarian....

.....The Mosaic law was given not only as a permanent standard for all humanity but also as a temporary system to supervise a particular people. As we read through the Mosaic law we are impressed with a complex system of laws that were set in place to guide the conduct of the Jewish people. According to Paul's imagery, the law functioned as a jailer to lock up the Jewish people in a vast system of legal codes and regulations. But that lockup was meant to be only temporary...."

The above is an extract from another argument, i lifted some portion that has to do with the purpose of the law as i see it aligns with my thoughts. You can find the full article here - - - > http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Gal/Understanding-Law

Stipulating a fixed % of giving was required because the Israelite would not have supported their brothers from the tribe of Levi. We have gone beyond just complying with the requirement of the law. You need to look at the underlying source of the law, which just as stated by Christ is love. The reason Christ in Mathew 5:23-24 made the comment below:

Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

If a tither had not adopted a legalistic approach to the law, why would he/she abandon (or pass by) a brother/sister in serious need and render his tithe first (on the ground that the tithe is more important)? A behavior that does not align with Christ comment above.

The law for us as Christians is not in the form of written codes, our connection with God is not based on a list of dos & don'ts, it is based on our relationship with Christ. We fulfill the law by trusting in Christ and allowing the spirit of God to lead us.

Romans 8:14 (NKJV)
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Zikky, you have made very good points on this topic another epic explanation.
Diligent students of the bible will understand what you have written.
The laws are given to the children of Israel to help them form a United Nation after their slavery experience in Egypt.
We should remember, they went in as a family unit and came out in their millions without any laws or constitution defining them as a nation. Hence, God gave them the rules and regulations to make them to be a different nation among the heathens (notably the Canaanites, Jebusites, Ammonities etc).
These 'legalistic' law brings death if they disobeyed, reason why the death of Jesus Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law. This has been the most important discussions in Apostle Paul's letters to the various converted Jewish Christians, that the laws are done with and they should embrace the grace of God.

I will recommend to every student of the bible to read this book: 'Unlocking the Bible' by David Pawson

RanchOwner:

I will recommend to every student of the bible to read this book: 'Unlocking the Bible' by David Pawson

How do I get this book please? Hard copy please. Thanks

@zikky..Out of context analogy..God's laws are spiritual.It doesn't appeal to ur carnal senses. The whole purpose of the Law is Love

@Bidam

before i answered you,zikky has already knocked you off balance, but then let me still touch some points;

Bidam:
@bernimore...you make me laff..you neither know the scriptures nor the power that lies therein.

you better laugh like a jakkal, and then come out to tell us a fraudulent 'power' to distort the reasoning of the gullible, ole!

.Did Jesus actually tells u He came to annul the law?

have you met jesus before? dont tell me that he dines with you! you read about him in the scriptures,isn'nt it? book of hebrews was an inpired scripture, heb 7:18-22 ''there was an annulment of the the law'' its not me that wrote it,ok? if you have problem with it,its because of your fraud!

Hear the words of the master Himself,the epitome of success

what kind of dindinrin are you? epitome of success,so jesus has turned to money making ritualist, stinking rasoning!

you read but do not understand, see the key word ''RIGHTEOUSNESS''

if you lived by the law,why do you cherrypicked tithing, but yet when your son/daughter insults you you refuse taking him/her out for stonning to death! why? can you see how foolish you are by cherrypicking, ANYONE WHO BREAKS ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE COMMANDMENTS!

:DDO NOT THINK THAT I HAVE COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW OR THE PROPHETS; I HAVE NOT COME TO ABOLISH THEM BUT TO FULFILL THEM. I TELL YOU THE TRUTH, UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH DISAPPEAR, NOT THE SMALLEST LETTER, NOT THE LEAST OF A PEN, WILL BY ANY MEANS DISAPPEAR FROM THE LAW UNTIL EVERYTHING IS ACCOMPLISHED. ANYONE WHO BREAKS ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE COMMANDMENTS(tithes and offerings) AND TEACHES OTHERS TO DO THE SAME WILL BE CALLED LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, BUT WHOEVER PRACTICES AND TEACHES THESE COMMANDS WILL BE CALLED GREAT IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. FOR I TELL YOU THAT UNLESS YOUR [size=14pt]RIGHTEOUSNESS SURPASSES THAT OF THE PHARISEES AND THE TEACHERS OF THE LAW[/size], YOU WILL CERTAINLY NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN(MAT5:17-20)

...

you think hebrews 7:18-22 that talks about annulment of the law contradicts MAT5:17-20 above? then if hebrews 7 is inferior yet you cherrypicked 'order of melchi' in d book of hebrews, are you not fraudulent? pauline epistles and not an inspired scripture? ah you don 'kolo'

ole!

Goshen360:

How do I get this book please? Hard copy please. Thanks

Any good bookshops and through Amazon or Ebay

Goshen360:

How do I get this book please? Hard copy please. Thanks

As said already, most good bookshops will be stocking the book.
Furthermore, you can get many other books by David Pawson, he is a good bible expositor.
Check out his website www.davidpawson.com

Bidam:
..God's laws are spiritual.

...and you (Bidam) are carnal.

Bidam:
The whole purpose of the Law is Love

..and did the law achieve it purpose?

As long as you continue to be guided by the mosaic law, you'll miss the opportunity to live according to the law of Christ. Maybe the mosaic law was meant for you, maybe you belong to the category of people that Paul listed in 1 Timothy 1:9-10

(KJV)
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine

You said the purpose of the law is love, how can the law achieve it when it is just a subset of love? what happens if it is not complete and cannot address all that love stand for? Take the commandment "thou shall not kill" for example, the commandment says its a sin to kill, but it did not say you shall not not 'hate'. As long you don't kill you have not sinned even though you so hate that person to extent you would have loved to send him/her to the other side. The only thing stopping you is the commandment that says you shall not kill. Then you belong to the category of people listed in 1 Tim. 1:9-10. Consider Christ version of that commandment here:

Matthew 5:21-22 (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Now tell me Bidam, which of these is more complete? is it the one that deals with your external actions; the one that says you should not kill but is silent about (or even allows you to) hate? or is the one that that deals with the motive of the heart? which of these truly reflect Love (the purpose of the law)? You cannot be living according to the both laws, not when one already addresses the other. So Bidam, why live according to the mosaic law when you have access to its source?

This applies also to your attempt at tithing according to law. You Bidam are acting like a new recruit and the mosaic law is your garrison commander, when he says jump, you jump and when he tells you to tithe you tithe Your act of tithing is 'legalistic', it is an offering based on a response to stipulated requirement (some written letters) rather than the sincere offering of the heart, and this is contrary to what Christ preached. So you can understand why Apostle Paul did not encouraged the gentiles to tithe, it would amount to leading them away from Christ and back to the law.

Your case is made even worse because you are responding to a part of the law that was not even made for you. God defined his tithe and said it should be given to the levite as an inheritance. What that means is that when God says the Israelite robbed him, he was referring to the tithe given to the Levite as their inheritance. You cannot be paying the Levite inheritance to your pastor, and you cannot even be paying the inheritance because it was the duty of the people of Israel to pay, not yours.

So Bidam, this is my sermon for this beautiful Sunday morning specially dedicated to you

I hope you still remember that the Lord instructed that just as the priest of old lived off the meat on the altar in a similar manner preachers like zikkyy should also enjoy the fruit of their labor. So don't forget to drop your tithe and offerings in the offering plate on your way out

Forget this Tithe of a thing! Hey! This is xmas how are you preparing? I know quiet well that every body is trying to meet up, but be conscious of your spiritual life with God!

This is my question... If I pay my tithe, will I go to hell?!

tchidi: This is my question... If I pay my tithe, will I go to hell?!

Nobody is saying you shouldn't pay your tithes if you want to. What we want christians to know is that as believers we are under no obligation to tithe. All our giving should be free will as we purpose in our heart. However the danger in tithing or keeping other laws of moses implies that you have rejected christ's sacrificial death and opted to remain under the law of moses.

Pastor Kun:

Nobody is saying you shouldn't pay your tithes if you want to. What we want christians to know is that as believers we are under no obligation to tithe. All our giving should be free will as we purpose in our heart. However the danger in tithing or keeping other laws of moses implies that you have rejected christ's sacrificial death and opted to remain under the law of moses.

Ok. Thanks.

Pastor Kun:

Nobody is saying you shouldn't pay your tithes if you want to. What we want christians to know is that as believers we are under no obligation to tithe. All our giving should be free will as we purpose in our heart. However the danger in tithing or keeping other laws of moses implies that you have rejected christ's sacrificial death and opted to remain under the law of moses.

Kunle actually had no insulting words? That's scary. There is no danger in tithing or doing any good work like tithing, alms giving, fasting, prayer, reading Bible, etc as far as you know that they don't save you or justify you.

Image123:
Kunle actually had no insulting words? That's scary. There is no danger in tithing or doing any good work like tithing, alms giving, fasting, prayer, reading Bible, etc as far as you know that they don't save you or justify you.

Bros, abeg leave matter for Mathias joor We know it doesn't save nor justifies BUT the way your MoGs are preaching-teaching tithing matter na wha. They are the very ones that teaches tithing makes ONE rich or bless and if not done, they're cursed. See, I have proven the word of God to be true - One CANNOT be blessed and cursed AT THE SAME TIME.

Christians are already blessed BECAUSE of what Christ did. We are ONLY working\walking from a blessed life. We're NOT trynna be blessed by tithing neither are Christians instructed to tithe under the New Testament in order to be blessed - That's the Old Testament; doing thing and God will do that. Your preachers should rather be teaching Christians to give by Grace.

Finally, Malachi 3:8-10 had being proven times without numbers to be falsely placed in the context of New Testament Christian giving. It was the product of the law and you know too well, Christianity is not operating under the law of Moses. Abeg give y'self a break joor

[quote
author=Goshen360]I will like to stop here as other scriptural verses of
Hebrews 7 further explains the better privileges we have in Christ
Jesus. To this end, legalistic tithing is NO WHERE
INSTRUCTED TO THE NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS.

This Thread is further open to questions, criticism
and sound doctrine. You are welcome![/quote]

I finally took out time to study Goshen's expose on Hebrew 7. He didn't mention this though but I wish to add that another reason why NT Christian cannot tithe, along with the fact that God nullified the old commandment must include ending tithe, can be found in Jesus words: WE CANNOT PUT NEW WINE IN OLD WINE SKIN. If Jesus discouraged it, natures abhorred it, God cannot uphold it. Does the end to tithing today.

DrummaBoy:

I finally took out time to study Goshen's expose on Hebrew 7. He didn't mention this though but I wish to add that another reason why NT Christian cannot tithe, along with the fact that God nullified the old commandment must include ending tithe, can be found in Jesus words: WE CANNOT PUT NEW WINE IN OLD WINE SKIN. If Jesus discouraged it, natures abhorred it, God cannot uphold it. Does the end to tithing today.

what kind of foolish reasoning is this wine is wine..The Holy Spirit of OLD is still the Same Holy Spirit of the New..God's laws has not changed they were fully expanded by Chrsit and buttressed by Paul.only the priesthood which is the wineskin has changed. i keep telling you this but you wouldn't listen..SMH

O foolish Bidam. Who has bewitched you?

Before you Goshen clearly portrayed Christ crucified, why do you still continue with this weak and beggarly issues done away with at calvary?

How can any unveiled mind read Goshen's expose and not see that the old is done away and in its place there is new priesthood and a new law? Without even reading Goshen I had told U the new priesthood birth the Priesthood of all Believers and he mentions it in his expose and here U are yearning Okpata.

smh...

I quoted Jesus' words: you cannot put new wine in old wine skin because it fits the picture the writer in Hebrew was trying to paint and the picture the whole of the NT painted. That is why it is NEW TESTAMENT.

I don't blame Bidam. These are the lies most Pentecostal churches propagate to rid people of their money.

I actually sort Goshen out here bc I needed the clarification and I believe I got. Bidam, shine your eyes and you too may get it...

DrummaBoy: O foolish Bidam. Who has bewitched you?

Before you Goshen clearly portrayed Christ crucified, why do you still continue with this weak and beggarly issues done away with at calvary?

How can any unveiled mind read Goshen's expose and not see that the old is done away and in its place there is new priesthood and a new law? Without even reading Goshen I had told U the new priesthood birth the Priesthood of all Believers and he mentions it in his expose and here U are yearning Okpata.

Lol..and what is the new law? pls say..You are the one who is actually confused here not being able to differentiate God's laws written in the hearts of believers and the ritual and ceremony of Moses' law pointing to Christ's sacrifice.You need to be able to differentiate between the laws of moses which ended when Jesus died on the cross and God's law which is eternal even before Moses came on the scene.Long before the Jewish nation ever came into existence, it is declared in Genesis 26:5, "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." so i wonder what new laws you are talking about here..is it the liberty to steal, to kill, to serve other gods am actually confused as to what this new law you are talking about is.

By the way, for those skeptics out there that still believe the Law passed away at the cross. Jesus just said in Matthew 5:18 that nary a speck of His Law will pass away till heaven and earth pass and all is fulfilled. With that said, I must ask, is heaven above and the earth beneath still here? And have all prophecies been fulfilled wherein we are in the city of Heaven? No? Then this means His Law is still binding no matter what you may think or have been taught. There is no getting around the simplicity of that statement made by Christ in Matthew 5:18

I quoted Jesus' words: you cannot put new wine in old wine skin because it fits the picture the writer in Hebrew was trying to paint and the picture the whole of the NT painted. That is why it is NEW TESTAMENT.

Very dishonest of you to use a parable of Jesus to explain the hebrews context. Ok lets see what that scripture is saying since you are always learning but never able to come to the knowledge of Christ.

Matthew 9:16-17: “No one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; for the patch pulls away from the garment, and the tear is made worse. “Nor do they put new wine into old wineskins, or else the wineskins break, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined. But they put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”


“you can’t pour new wine into old wineskins.” This is one of those bad interpretations to justify the “new thing.” First we need to see this is a parable not a prophecy (Luke 5:36-37). What Jesus spoke already took place and is not to be repeated. What Jesus meant is that He did not come to strengthen the law (the old covenant) or perpetuate it but to bring people into a “new covenant” of grace (the old covenant was wearing out Hebrews 8:7-13). The context bears this out by his example of both the wine and the sewing of the garment: “No one puts a piece from a new garment on an old one; otherwise the new makes a tear, and also the piece that was taken out of the new does not match the old.” What Jesus spoke on the new wineskins already took place and is not to a repetitive act throughout history. It was accomplished almost two thousand years ago. We don’t have a new, new covenant to practice as some are teaching.

This is made even clearer in Luke 5:36-39: “Then He spoke a parable to them: “No one puts a piece from a new garment on an old one; otherwise the new makes a tear, and also the piece that was taken out of the new does not match the old. “And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine will burst the wineskins and be spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined. “But new wine must be put into new wineskins, and both are preserved. “And no one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new; for he says, 'The old is better.”’

The people did not want to change, the religious leaders were concerned about Jesus and the law being changed or removed. This is why Jesus responded, to clarify his mission “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill it” (Matt 5:17). He brought the laws requirements to completion.

I don't blame Bidam. These are the lies most Pentecostal churches propagate to rid people of their money.

i don't need your pity..if you like stay at home no go church because of tithes and offerings..SMH.

I actually sort Goshen out here bc I needed the clarification and I believe I got. Bidam, shine your eyes and you too may get it...

You got more lies to justify your error..you too shine your eyes.

I discovered my mistake too late. I later saw on this same thread that greater authorities on this matter have argued you to no avail. So like them, I leave you to your ways.

And BTW your expose on the new wine parable only lends credence to my position. I am done with you on this thread.

DrummaBoy: I discovered my mistake too late. I later saw on this same thread that greater authorities on this matter have argued you to no avail. So like them, I leave you to your ways.

And BTW your expose on the new wine parable only lends credence to my position. I am done with you on this thread.

rather it lends credence to the new covenant dispensation of grace that without the righteousness of Christ in us we cannot fulfill God's law which hasn't changed since creation and not your theory of a new law