Italo I dey shame for u. Ijawkid just finished u and all u could do's constant repetition of words. Sorry to say, I am catholic and same time a christian, but when matters like 'Catholics worship Idols surfaces, I keep quiet and never speak a word'. If u can answer some of ijawkid's questions, then this whole protestant vs catholic would have been over. As a catholic, I don't support the idea of bowing down to Mary whom I don't even know her looks; the rest of my brethren can crucify me for saying this but I don't care. If the bible was compiled by catholic, then where's it in the bible we should bow before Mary's image? Ijawkid made valid points even though I don't take side with his doctrine. Ur questions are annoying. If Ijawkid and the rest of the protestant or pentecostal bow to worship their bible, that is their own cup of tea. Infact the way Christianity is going now, I don't truly _stand who are the true Christians anymore. God of the heavens and Christ Your Son I believe in. Private jets flying all around in the name of Christ.; as for who came 1st or 2nd is non of ma business, my only question is ' what is happening to Christianity as a body' or religion? *sad*

italo:

The Bible doesn't tell us that Jesus knelt to his bed and worshipped it. Why do you do it? It is YOU that has said many times that anything that Jesus did not do or command in the Bible is a sin, not me.

Italo you go make me vex o with your childish questions and reasoning...........Jesus slept on a bed and by your words you also must be inferring he worshipped it.......because I don't knw what else I do with my wooden bed apart from sleeping on it...........

If you say sleeping on my bed is idolatry then I'll knw how to handle your case.........

Let me remind you again::::I am not like you that will worship plank,stones,images etc.........

italo:

You have never talked about what the apostles would have done if they were still alive before. All you normally say is "where is it in the Bible." So why does it now matter what the apostles would have done if they were here today? Is it now acceptable to do what the apostles didn't do in the Bible? Suddenly?

The apostles used all the means of communication that existed in the first century to spread the goodnews.........except you wanna argue the apostles never communicated with the persons they tried to reach............

Its like saying Jesus wouldn't have entered okada if he existed in our time,..........

Boomark: ^You can't rough handle me. I am invincible. If you will not resort to bringing your facts from the bulletins, then get ready to start acting childishly like italo.

Is the church Christ formed a building/house? You don't even know.

The apostles and followers of Christ are his church and they are called Christians. That is why my church is called Christians not catholic. You tell an obvious lie here if you say the apostles where called catholic church.

Go and read what the bible meant by church or body of Christ. I am a Christian not a catholic.

You see! That proves my point that you are A LIER. You said that you are "INVISIBLE". That is a "BIG LIE". No human being is invisible. It is a lie for you to say that you are "invisible". As a matter of fact, this is the second lie you have posted just to avoid telling us the name of you SHAMEFUL denomination. I still don't understand the type of christian you claim to be. A christian who prefer to SIN by lieing just to avoid stating the name of his/her church. You reported that I said that ""the apostles were called catholic church."" Guess what?. THAT IS ANOTHER "LIE" I didn't say that. Show me a post where I did. What I said is that "the church founded on the Pentecost day latter (after some time) became known as the Catholic Church". That is seen in the reply I gave to [plappville(f)]. Go back and read it for yourself. So even after I promise not to use the name of your church against you when ahead to tell 2 more lie. So far you have told 3 lies and that still proves my point that you are a lier. I don't know what you are even afraid of that you resoted to use LIES, except if this you is "REALLY A SHAMEFUL ONE INDEED". Okay let me make you anothe promise. "I Promise to Stop Coming After You With My "'ATOMIC BOMB'" once you declear publicly the name of your Church". SO ONCE AGAIN CAN YOU WITHOUT THE FEAR OF ANY EVIL DECLEAR PUBLICLY THE NAME OF YOUR CHURCH. I Just hope that this won't be an opportunity to tell more LIES.

sylve11: . . . . as for who came 1st or 2nd is non of ma business, my only question is ' what is happening to Christianity as a body' or religion? *sad*

I think this is one of the most sensible points in all the posts/threads dealing with "my denomination or my abomination is better than yours."

Jesus Christ established "The Church". He did not establish The Roman Catholic Church (aka 'The Catholic Church'); or the Pentecostal Church, or the Anglican church, or the Baptist Church; or the Methodist Church; or "Power Must Change Hands Ministry", or "Koboko Ministry".

Part of the answer to your question what is hapening to Christianity as a body is the consequence of this insane denominationalism; just as 'tribalism' and 'ethnicism' are dragging Nigeria down, denominationalism is having a corrupting and corroding effect on what Christianity is supposed to be.

In the earliest days, the Church did not have any of these denominational adjectives; instead the Church was simply identified where a particular branch of the one Church met: e.g. the Church at Ephesus, the Church at Antioch, the Church in Rome, 'the Church that meets in your home' etc.

When Ignatius, who was not a Roman Catholic, coined the expression "catholic", he did not mean it as a denomination at all. He was trying to highlight the oneness of the Church; and he meant by catholic essentially universal. It is a pity that Roman Catholics reject this original meaning of catholic; that they dissociate themselves from the catholic Church, which is the universal Church, in order to advance their very very sad denominationalism!

It is true that about 200-250 years after Ignatius coined the word catholic with its original meaning, a particular appropriation of the word took place particularly in the time of Theodosius (and Damasus); even that does not compare with the misuse of the word today.

As for the other denominations (other than Roman Catholic), each has its own problems including shortcomings on both orthodoxy and orthopraxy. So no one is perfect. It may appear paradoxical that the Church in its different faces or denominations has all these problems. Yet we need to bear a number of things in mind: the warnings from Jesus Himself and from the apostles that wolves etc will come into and be inside the Church! Second, even as for Christians who are trying to do right, there is one thing we must remember: one can only do it if one constantly submits to the Holy Spirit. I think this is where we miss it and this is a very significant cause of all these our difficulties.

As for the private jet people, many of the leaders practising and teaching these things may not even be Christians at all; or at best, what they are practising is not Christianity even if they are honest but genuinely mistaken. Unfortunately, their followers are too blinded by bling, desire or even greed to be concerned to pay attention to the not very hard to understand teachings of Jesus and the apostles on subjects like that. I don't think anyone who reads, understands and tries to be guided by 1 Timothy 6 will have difficulties seeing the private jet fad for the worldy nonsense that it all is.

Boomark:

You are seriously interested in current affairs while we are interested in bringing you back to God.

You are interested in things synonymous to: who is the first president of Jamaica? Who discovered that mosquito can bite? Etc.

Who are these protestants you kept mentioning as if they stole something from you?

There he goes again TAKING SOMEONE ELSE'S "PANADOL". Right nown you are being "punished" for thaking Fixking's "Panadol" and as you can see, he is not here to help you state the name of your denomination. And you have the gots to go and take ijawkid's "Panadol". It seems you like "Panadols" meant for other. So you have not learnt to mind you own business. Well it is only a "-----" that will keep repeating the same mistake. On the other hand Your, "Punishment" will end once you declear publicly the name of you church. Go-Boomark! Go-Boomark! Declear it public.

Ubenedictus: i guess bookmark na deeper life!

That is why he rebuked idol worshipers "deeperly."

sylve11: Italo I dey shame for u. Ijawkid just finished u and all u could do's constant repetition of words. Sorry to say, I am catholic and same time a christian, but when matters like 'Catholics worship Idols surfaces, I keep quiet and never speak a word'. If u can answer some of ijawkid's questions, then this whole protestant vs catholic would have been over. As a catholic, I don't support the idea of bowing down to Mary whom I don't even know her looks; the rest of my brethren can crucify me for saying this but I don't care. If the bible was compiled by catholic, then where's it in the bible we should bow before Mary's image? Ijawkid made valid points even though I don't take side with his doctrine. Ur questions are annoying. If Ijawkid and the rest of the protestant or pentecostal bow to worship their bible, that is their own cup of tea. Infact the way Christianity is going now, I don't truly _stand who are the true Christians anymore. God of the heavens and Christ Your Son I believe in. Private jets flying all around in the name of Christ.; as for who came 1st or 2nd is non of ma business, my only question is ' what is happening to Christianity as a body' or religion? *sad*

Well said bro!

Ubenedictus: This is anoda word play, christian vs catholic, kind of! He did! Wow! I'm a member of that building and the apostles are d foundation stone.

hahaha, oh, like wen u were born, bookmark was d name written on ya forehead.

no u aren't a catholic, that is probably becos u don't believe u were sent to d whole world to proclaim d kingdom!

Are you saying that catholic used the remains of the apostles to lay the foundation of their church building in Rome sa as to fulfil what he said "on this rock i will build my church." this is illiteracy.
Sorcery and rituals are now being unveiled. When Obadiah777 said it i thought he was joking.

I can't be a catholic because am not deluded to practice idolatry.

sylve11: Italo I dey shame for u. Ijawkid just finished u and all u could do's constant repetition of words. Sorry to say, I am catholic and same time a christian, but when matters like 'Catholics worship Idols surfaces, I keep quiet and never speak a word'. If u can answer some of ijawkid's questions, then this whole protestant vs catholic would have been over. As a catholic, I don't support the idea of bowing down to Mary whom I don't even know her looks; the rest of my brethren can crucify me for saying this but I don't care. If the bible was compiled by catholic, then where's it in the bible we should bow before Mary's image? Ijawkid made valid points even though I don't take side with his doctrine. Ur questions are annoying. If Ijawkid and the rest of the protestant or pentecostal bow to worship their bible, that is their own cup of tea. Infact the way Christianity is going now, I don't truly _stand who are the true Christians anymore. God of the heavens and Christ Your Son I believe in. Private jets flying all around in the name of Christ.; as for who came 1st or 2nd is non of ma business, my only question is ' what is happening to Christianity as a body' or religion? *sad*

d reason y u dont care if ijawkid is kneel b4 his bible is becos u dont recognise hypocrisy, d reason u aren't seeing scripture passage is because u dont how far abt italo and ijawkid's arguement. If reason u dont agree with d cath. Church is because u dont undastand her teachings.

Lovethywilbedon: You see! That proves my point that you are A LIER. You said that you are "INVISIBLE". That is a "BIG LIE". No human being is invisible. It is a lie for you to say that you are "invisible". As a matter of fact, this is the second lie you have posted just to avoid telling us the name of you SHAMEFUL denomination. I still don't understand the type of christian you claim to be. A christian who prefer to SIN by lieing just to avoid stating the name of his/her church. You reported that I said that ""the apostles were called catholic church."" Guess what?. THAT IS ANOTHER "LIE" I didn't say that. Show me a post where I did. What I said is that "the church founded on the Pentecost day latter (after some time) became known as the Catholic Church". That is seen in the reply I gave to [plappville(f)]. Go back and read it for yourself. So even after I promise not to use the name of your church against you when ahead to tell 2 more lie. So far you have told 3 lies and that still proves my point that you are a lier. I don't know what you are even afraid of that you resoted to use LIES, except if this you is "REALLY A SHAMEFUL ONE INDEED". Okay let me make you anothe promise. "I Promise to Stop Coming After You With My "'ATOMIC BOMB'" once you declear publicly the name of your Church". SO ONCE AGAIN CAN YOU WITHOUT THE FEAR OF ANY EVIL DECLEAR PUBLICLY THE NAME OF YOUR CHURCH. I Just hope that this won't be an opportunity to tell more LIES.

u have started making unuseful arguement! I dont see y u are picking out his word "invisible" stick to d stuff at hand.

sylve11: Italo I dey shame for u. Ijawkid just finished u and all u could do's constant repetition of words. Sorry to say, I am catholic and same time a christian, but when matters like 'Catholics worship Idols surfaces, I keep quiet and never speak a word'. If u can answer some of ijawkid's questions, then this whole protestant vs catholic would have been over. As a catholic, I don't support the idea of bowing down to Mary whom I don't even know her looks; the rest of my brethren can crucify me for saying this but I don't care. If the bible was compiled by catholic, then where's it in the bible we should bow before Mary's image? Ijawkid made valid points even though I don't take side with his doctrine. Ur questions are annoying. If Ijawkid and the rest of the protestant or pentecostal bow to worship their bible, that is their own cup of tea. Infact the way Christianity is going now, I don't truly _stand who are the true Christians anymore. God of the heavens and Christ Your Son I believe in. Private jets flying all around in the name of Christ.; as for who came 1st or 2nd is non of ma business, my only question is ' what is happening to Christianity as a body' or religion? *sad*

WOW! Here comes The Judas Iscariot (the traitor). Now pay attenshion let me tell you a story that you may know. When Our Lord Jesus wanted to start his public ministry He prayed to God and fasted for 40days and 40nights before he went out to select the 12 men with which He intends to start His first church with. Imagine out of the 12 men selected by Jesus Himself 1 of them Judas Iscorit became a Traitor. Since Christ in His first church consisting of 12 Apostles, had just 1 Judas, this means that if The Holy Roman Catholic Church is to be a Perfect Church like that of Christ, then out her approximatley 1.8Billion members globaly there must be atleast 150million "Judases" of which you are one of them. The effect of these numerous judases is what the church has been suffering from. Starting from the day of the great apostles Peter and Paul, to our time of BenedictXVI and till the end of the world. See my friend, I am not surprise to hear something like this from a catholic (if at all you are). We have had many Judases like you in the past, Mathine Luther is one of your kind. So was HenryVIII, John Calvin, Gordiano Bruno, Joseph Stalin and many of them who did not belive in the True Faith that was handed on to them. Just as Jesus did not teach Judas how to betray people so did no Catholic priest or faithful taugth you to worship idol. Just as judas was neithe one of the 12 nor one of the enemies of Jesus, so do you not belive in the catholic faith nor in the doctrines of the enemies of The Holy Roman Catholi Church like Ijawkid. If you don't like Christianity, as a traitor go and become a Moslems and if possible join the Boko Haram boys to launch full attack on Christianity. Look my friend, nobody is beging you to be a Catholic. Have you ever seen Catholics beg people to become one of them just as these SHAMELES PROTESTANTS do?. Go and read JOHN6:66 otherwise know as "JOHN666" Jesus never begged anybody to belive in Him or become one of his followers. If you have a problem with the catholic church go first thing tomorrow morning, imediately after The Holy Mass and meet your Parish Priest for explanations or visit the sites that are in my previous post. Finaly as an advice if truely you a catholic (because I can bet you a not, since I have seen "Christians" like Boomark, who don't even know the name of their church talkless of the teachings of their denomination, hide behind the back drops of NairaLand to insult the Catholic Church) STOP BEHAVING LIKE A PROTESTANTS who protest about things they don't understand insteed of doing the honourable things like asking questions or making research on there own. THANKS.

sylve11: Italo I dey shame for u. Ijawkid just finished u and all u could do's constant repetition of words. Sorry to say, I am catholic and same time a christian, but when matters like 'Catholics worship Idols surfaces, I keep quiet and never speak a word'. If u can answer some of ijawkid's questions, then this whole protestant vs catholic would have been over. As a catholic, I don't support the idea of bowing down to Mary whom I don't even know her looks; the rest of my brethren can crucify me for saying this but I don't care. If the bible was compiled by catholic, then where's it in the bible we should bow before Mary's image? Ijawkid made valid points even though I don't take side with his doctrine. Ur questions are annoying. If Ijawkid and the rest of the protestant or pentecostal bow to worship their bible, that is their own cup of tea. Infact the way Christianity is going now, I don't truly _stand who are the true Christians anymore. God of the heavens and Christ Your Son I believe in. Private jets flying all around in the name of Christ.; as for who came 1st or 2nd is non of ma business, my only question is ' what is happening to Christianity as a body' or religion? *sad*

Experience has taught me that you cannot have a reasonable exchange with Ijawkid and Boomark, that's why I'm using their tactic of repetitive baseless accusations against them.

If you want a reasonable argument to thrash the issue, why not take the bull by the horn. Let's discuss it. I'll answer the question you have asked and ask my own questions.

Ans - Nowhere does the Bible say we should bow before Mary's image.

Qstn 1 - does that make it wrong, because it is not explicitly stated in the Bible?

Qstn 2 - do you really think that answering Ijawkid's questions will end Protestant against Catholic attacks, because I've answered them dozens of times on nairaland and the attacks have not ended.

Qstn 3 - are you saying we can only bow to one who we have seeing one-on-one? That would exclude Jesus too.

Qstn 4 - are you sure you are a Catholic? - when you don't even seem to know what the Catholic Church is.

Qstn 5 - since you say you are a Catholic... Have you ever worshipped Mary or any other being but God?

Qstn 6 - in all your years of going to Catholic Church, do you know anybody (including family and friends) who worships Mary or any other being but God?

Please answer my questions since you were the one advising me to answer Ijawkid's questions. Lead by example.

@ Enigma,

The Catholic Church is not a "denomination" of the Church. It is the one true Church that was founded by Christ.

Lovethywilbedon: Dear sister, plappville[f] you are very correct. The Church was born on the day of PENTECOST. But on that day she was born, she had no NAME. No child comes into the world bearing a name. Girl! did you come into this world bearing a name?. NO! but after some time you became known as Plappville[f] {and not ellivqqalq[m]}. That is exactly what happened to the ONE AND ONLY TRUE CHURCH FOUNDED BY CHRIST. She was born on the day of pentecost, but after some time she became known as THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH {and not protestant or penticostal church}. Sister, do you understand it now?. That is why I am still proud to be a Catholic. So you can help me to tell your protestant brothers to stop protestesting about a TRUE FACT that they cannot change.

I shake my head at the bolded!! When I created a thread about this, some folks were ranting and spewing shit. Only a few honest and knowledgeable folks like striktlymi, Enigma, belabela and others gave me reasonable answers.

This is what happens when you misinterprete scriptures to explain the history of your Church! The only true church?? Smh!!! STRONG DELUSION = 2 Thessalonians 2:11 that is!

@Mr Ube, I'm on mobile now, I'll address your post on the other thread later!

italo: @ Enigma,

The Catholic Church is not a "denomination" of the Church. It is the one true Church that was founded by Christ.

@ italo

The Roman Catholic Church (aka 'The Catholic Church') is just another denomination; it is not the Church or "the one true Church" founded by Christ.

The real one true Church founded by Christ is the Church of Christ aka the Christian Church aka the universal Church aka the catholic Church.


The real one true Church founded by Christ which is the catholic Church has members in the Anglican Church, the Lutheran Church, the Baptist Church, the Evangelical Church the Pentecostal Church etc etc and even includes people who do not belong to any denomination.


The real one true Church founded by Christ is even found where just two or three are gathered in Jesus' name.

@italo

Don't even expect to have a honest argument wit this folks especially this enigma of a guy.He can continue to live in self delusionam

I gave up arguing wit him about 2 months ago when wr argued whether st Augustine beleived in papal supremacy.The dude is very crafty and mischievious.To think I once held him in high esteem to even vote him into poster of the year 2 years ago

@italo

Don't even expect to have a honest argument wit this folks especially this enigma of a guy.He can continue to live in self delusion

I gave up arguing wit him about 2 months ago when wr argued whether st Augustine beleived in papal supremacy.The dude is very crafty and mischievious.To think I once held him in high esteem to even vote him into poster of the year 2 years ago

chukwudi44: @italo

Don't even expect to have a honest argument wit this folks especially this enigma of a guy.He can continue to live in self delusion

I gave up arguing wit him about 2 months ago when wr argued whether st Augustine beleived in papal supremacy.The dude is very crafty and mischievious.To think I once held him in high esteem to even vote him into poster of the year 2 years ago

You are creating unnecessary enmity and you are behaving like a child. Do you notice that since these issues about whether the Roman Catholic Church "gave us the Bible" (or is the only church etc) started you have thrown several insults (some particularly bad) at me and I chose not to repay you? Initially, I even tried to turn some of them into jokes hoping that you will calm down and see sense but it just became worse.

Well, my approach here has never been particularly to make friends. So, if you choose to keep on your current path I will not dissuade you. I can only pray that one day you will come to understand and realise the kind of motive, logic and philosophy that necessitate challenging the falsehoods being spread about the contribution of the Roman Catholic Church.

What is more, I will pray that your eyes, heart and mind become open to see that your commitment should be to Christ rather than to any particular organisation.

Lovethywilbedon: You see! That proves my point that you are A LIER. You said that you are "INVISIBLE". That is a "BIG LIE". No human being is invisible. It is a lie for you to say that you are "invisible". As a matter of fact, this is the second lie you have posted just to avoid telling us the name of you SHAMEFUL denomination. I still don't understand the type of christian you claim to be. A christian who prefer to SIN by lieing just to avoid stating the name of his/her church. You reported that I said that ""the apostles were called catholic church."" Guess what?. THAT IS ANOTHER "LIE" I didn't say that. Show me a post where I did. What I said is that "the church founded on the Pentecost day latter (after some time) became known as the Catholic Church". That is seen in the reply I gave to [plappville(f)]. Go back and read it for yourself. So even after I promise not to use the name of your church against you when ahead to tell 2 more lie. So far you have told 3 lies and that still proves my point that you are a lier. I don't know what you are even afraid of that you resoted to use LIES, except if this you is "REALLY A SHAMEFUL ONE INDEED". Okay let me make you anothe promise. "I Promise to Stop Coming After You With My "'ATOMIC BOMB'" once you declear publicly the name of your Church". SO ONCE AGAIN CAN YOU WITHOUT THE FEAR OF ANY EVIL DECLEAR PUBLICLY THE NAME OF YOUR CHURCH. I Just hope that this won't be an opportunity to tell more LIES.

You have to apologise to me for calling me a lier. I said i am invincible not invisible. Have you seen how you are lying an innocent me? ;( Also show me where i said you called the apostles the catholic church. Italo and ubenedictus are notorious in twisting another persons comment. Now you have joined them in their notoriousity.

Ubenedictus: d reason y u dont care if ijawkid is kneel b4 his bible is becos u dont recognise hypocrisy, d reason u aren't seeing scripture passage is because u dont how far abt italo and ijawkid's arguement. If reason u dont agree with d cath. Church is because u dont undastand her teachings.

No, not as if I don't _stand the church's teachings. . .it is u who do not _stand me. And if italo and ijawkid had their arguments/differences in other thread, I think that's none of ma business. All I am saying is don't defend ur religion and believes, and don't believe that ur believes are better believes to another man's believe. U and Italo are guys I respect so much, not because we are members of the same faith, but because u have contributed meaning fully to religion's section of nairaland.com.

italo:

Experience has taught me that you cannot have a reasonable exchange with Ijawkid and Boomark, that's why I'm using their tactic of repetitive baseless accusations against them.

If you want a reasonable argument to thrash the issue, why not take the bull by the horn. Let's discuss it. I'll answer the question you have asked and ask my own questions.

Ans - Nowhere does the Bible say we should bow before Mary's image.

Qstn 1 - does that make it wrong, because it is not explicitly stated in the Bible?

Qstn 2 - do you really think that answering Ijawkid's questions will end Protestant against Catholic attacks, because I've answered them dozens of times on nairaland and the attacks have not ended.

Qstn 3 - are you saying we can only bow to one who we have seeing one-on-one? That would exclude Jesus too.

Qstn 4 - are you sure you are a Catholic? - when you don't even seem to know what the Catholic Church is.

Qstn 5 - since you say you are a Catholic... Have you ever worshipped Mary or any other being but God?

Qstn 6 - in all your years of going to Catholic Church, do you know anybody (including family and friends) who worships Mary or any other being but God?

Please answer my questions since you were the one advising me to answer Ijawkid's questions. Lead by example.

Ur questions are childish ones again, I am a free thinker and those questions are not meant for me. I can give u over 100 questions that u won't even dare answer, bt no I am not gonna ask u cos for u to believe all the teachings u receive from catholic church without asking questions, then who am I to ask u questions? Being a catholic doesn't mean one doesn't have right to ask his faith/doctrines questions. For if u wanna engage in an argument, its better u teach, and thence arise questions, and thence arise arguments and thence arise knowledge; thence all things been equal, ur audience/students shall remain grateful to u.

Lovethywilbedon: Dear sister, plappville[f] you are very correct. The Church was born on the day of PENTECOST. But on that day she was born, she had no NAME. No child comes into the world bearing a name. Girl! did you come into this world bearing a name?. NO! but after some time you became known as Plappville[f] {and not ellivqqalq[m]}. That is exactly what happened to the ONE AND ONLY TRUE CHURCH FOUNDED BY CHRIST. She was born on the day of pentecost, but after some time she became known as THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH {and not protestant or penticostal church}. Sister, do you
understand it now?. That is why I am still proud to be a Catholic. So you can help me to tell your protestant
brothers to stop protestesting about a TRUE FACT that they cannot change.

Scripture did not say that, the Apostles bowed to any image, they prayed, and the Holy Spirit came down. Have you been following this same method? Capital letter "NO" you have a different doctrine so how does the Catholic that is known with idolatry doctrine be thesame Church that was born on the day of *Penticost*?

Waoohhhh.…this thread is fast progressing and @ijewkid is truelly on point even if the Catholics are keeping blind eyes to these plain truth facing them.

Enigma:
The real one true Church founded by Christ which is the catholic Church has members in the Anglican Church, the Lutheran Church, the Baptist Church, the Evangelical Church the Pentecostal Church etc etc and even includes people who do not belong to any denomination.

What you are saying is that the ONE true Church of Christ teaches millions of different doctrines. One might say 'it is right to have gay bishops,' while the other says 'it is wrong.' One might say 'Holy Communion is Jesus,' while the other says 'it's just biscuit...or wafer.' 'One might say 'Jesus is God,' while the other says 'he was only a man.'

It is obvious the "real one true Church" cannot have millions of false doctrines in it.

1 Tim 3:15: "The Church...is the pillar and foundation of truth."

Enigma: The real one true Church founded by Christ is even found where just two or three are gathered in Jesus' name.

A joke at best.

sylve11:
All I am saying is don't defend ur religion and believes,

1Pet 3:15 "...But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have..."

You seem not to be on the same page with St. Peter, the one who has the keys to the kingdom of God.

sylve11: and don't believe that ur believes are better believes to another man's believe.

It is not just "better." It is the only true faith. There is no way to polish that and make it sound pleasing to their ears. Truth is truth and we must proclaim it.

sylve11: U and Italo are guys I respect so much, not because we are members of the same faith, but because u have contributed meaning fully to religion's section of nairaland.com.

Thank you.

sylve11:
Ur questions are childish ones again, I am a free thinker and those questions are not meant for me. I can give u over 100 questions that u won't even dare answer, bt no I am not gonna ask u cos for u to believe all the teachings u receive from catholic church without asking questions, then who am I to ask u questions? Being a catholic doesn't mean one doesn't have right to ask his faith/doctrines questions. For if u wanna engage in an argument, its better u teach, and thence arise questions, and thence arise arguments and thence arise knowledge; thence all things been equal, ur audience/students shall remain grateful to u.

So your question and Ijawkid's questions are mature questions deserving answers but Italo's questions are childish and not deserving answers.

My friend you are not a Catholic but a hypocrite - and I don't mean that as an insult, only a perfect description of you... And I have more evidence:

For you to claim to be a "Catholic" and not believe the Catholic Church on some issues means that you go to Church on Sundays and open your mouth and say: "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH", meanwhile, you don't. That is hypocrisy!

Enigma:
You are creating unnecessary enmity and you are behaving like a child.

I don't see anything wrong in his warning me of your insincerity, especially since I already know of it from first-hand experience. Don't you remember when you quoted one line from St. Ignatius letter out of context, and I got you the whole chapter of that letter to show that Ignatius idea of the Catholic Church bears no semblance to the lie that you're telling. You suddenly didn't want to hear of St. Ignatius anymore.

Hypocrisy is difficult to deal with, my dear. Look what Jesus had to say to your understudies, the Pharisees in Matthew 23. I imagine if he's not saying worse to you than whatever Chukwudi says.

Enigma: I can only pray that one day you will come to understand and realise the kind of motive, logic and philosophy that necessitate challenging the falsehoods being spread about the contribution of the Roman Catholic Church.

But you don't pray that one day we will come to understand and realise the falsehood you are spreading, abi? You would consider that an "insult."

Enigma: What is more, I will pray that your eyes, heart and mind become open to see that your commitment should be to Christ rather than to any particular organisation.

Be it far from me that I should be committed to Christ and unconcerned with his body, The Catholic Church. What sort of fake commitment would that be?

italo:

So your question and Ijawkid's questions are mature questions deserving answers but Italo's questions are childish and not deserving answers.

My friend you are not a Catholic but a hypocrite - and I don't mean that as an insult, only a perfect description of you... And I have more evidence:

For you to claim to be a "Catholic" and not believe the Catholic Church on some issues means that you go to Church on Sundays and open your mouth and say: "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH", meanwhile, you don't. That is hypocrisy!

I never start with u, veins don dey pop out from ur head! If I may ponder upon ur above statement, then I have every reason to say religion is blind! And that's the reason the world is xperiencing no peace. Ur case is worse and it wouldn't worth my while discussing 'faith' with u. . . .may be other topics, but on this, nay! Ubentus is a better companion to reason logically with on matters like this. Bye bye o.

sylve11:
I never start with u, veins don dey pop out from ur head! If I may ponder upon ur above statement, then I have every reason to say religion is blind! And that's the reason the world is xperiencing no peace. Ur case is worse and it wouldn't worth my while discussing 'faith' with u. . . .may be other topics, but on this, nay! Ubentus is a better companion to reason logically with on matters like this. Bye bye o.

The reason that you cannot discuss "faith" with me is that you don't even know your faith to start with. You proclaim "I BELIEVE!" in your parish on Sunday morning (that is if at all you even go to Church), then you proclaim "I DONT BELIEVE!" on nairaland on Sunday afternoon.

The argument should not be between you and someone else but the argument should be within you. Between the Sylve11 that believes and the Sylve11 that doesn't believe.

Sort yourself out before you "start with me." Do you believe in the Holy Catholic Church... Or do you not?!

italo:

1Pet 3:15 "...But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have..."

You seem not to be on the same page with St. Peter, the one who has the keys to the kingdom of God.



It is not just "better." It is the only true faith. There is no way to polish that and make it sound pleasing to their ears. Truth is truth and we must proclaim it.



Thank you.

To ur 1st statement, anyother religion can quote same in making a point.

To ur 2nd statement, I wonder where u think the rest of the multitude who do not believe in Christ, who haven't heard about Him and who believe on their doctrine with practises that pleases the Almighty God will go (wether hell or heaven), na u come know then. And I think the pentecostals and her likes are all going to hell by ur assertion.

To ur 3rd, the 2nd and 3rd are works in relativity.

To the 4th, thank u too.

italo: What you are saying is that the ONE true Church of Christ teaches millions of different doctrines. One might say 'it is right to have gay bishops,' while the other says 'it is wrong.' One might say 'Holy Communion is Jesus,' while the other says 'it's just biscuit...or wafer.' 'One might say 'Jesus is God,' while the other says 'he was only a man.'

It is obvious the "real one true Church" cannot have millions of false doctrines in it.

1 Tim 3:15: "The Church...is the pillar and foundation of truth."

You are making a mistake; what is more you are ignoring what is in the Bible.

According to the Bible, the one true Church is not a building; even more importantly it is not an organisation! Therefore, the one true Church is not especially concerned with different organisations who are between them teaching different doctrines ---- like the Roman Catholic Church, Pentecostal Church etc etc etc

The one true Church of Christ is simply a body of people; a body of people who have accepted and are trusting in Christ. They may be individual e.g. like their brother of old the Ethiopean eunuch, they may be a small group that meets in a house e.g. the Church that met in the house of Priscilla and Aquilla or in the house of Philemon; they may meet in a bigger group as with a dedicated church building.

When they meet in a bigger group especially, it is possible that false people and even wolves may be among them; yet Jesus still knows His sheep.

Where we get information about recognising the one true Church is --- from the Bible. We are not concerned with an organisation that deceives itself with bulls etc and says it is the "only true Church". The Bible quite easily shows that the organisation is lying, in fact it is talking --- bull.

A joke at best.

Here, you are showing your colours and that of the Roman Catholic Church. What you call a joke is my statement that the true Church is even found where two or three are gathered in Jesus'name. Well, that means you are calling Jesus Christ a "joker" because He is the One who said it.

italo: I don't see anything wrong in his warning me of your insincerity, especially since I already know of it from first-hand experience. Don't you remember when you quoted one line from St. Ignatius letter out of context, and I got you the whole chapter of that letter to show that Ignatius idea of the Catholic Church bears no semblance to the lie that you're telling. You suddenly didn't want to hear of St. Ignatius anymore.

Hypocrisy is difficult to deal with, my dear. Look what Jesus had to say to your understudies, the Pharisees in Matthew 23. I imagine if he's not saying worse to you than whatever Chukwudi says.

But you don't pray that one day we will come to understand and realise the falsehood you are spreading, abi? You would consider that an "insult."

Be it far from me that I should be committed to Christ and unconcerned with his body, The Catholic Church. What sort of fake commitment would that be?

1. It seems this matter is really paining you people! In other words, that we are combatting the lies and misrepresentations that the Roman Catholic Church has fed you lot and the world is being exposed is causing you people wahala. Make una sorry oh; make una sorry gaaan. Truly, if you na like sef, make una no sorry at all! The truth hurts sometimes and you will just have to suck it, I'm afraid.

2. You may lie all you like about my "insincerity" ----- well, my posts about Ignatius' statement remain there for all to see. The problem is that the Roman Catholic Church has always lied and twisted that statement of Ignatius in the same way that it has always lied and twisted statements of other "church fathers". Now that someone with proper comprehension explains the statement accurately here, it exposes the lies and misrepresentations of the Roman Catholic Church. Because that one dey pain una, you label the person "insincere". Well, na una wahala be that.

3. This one is just a notice: if una wan play nice, I will be nice to you people; if una wan play rough, then let's get ready to rumbleeeeeee!