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Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion - Religion (1) - Nairaland

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Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 8:14pm On Dec 17, 2012
Reyginus: This is what I'm talking about.
But Lb, I have a problem with your 2. He is right on that one.
Number one is the claim of science, but in 2 lies its contradiction.
Let's take the big b.ang as our case study. Is there any proof for the big bang? If the big b.ang is actually the begining, where came the materials that initiated it? Have you seen anti-matter?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 8:17pm On Dec 17, 2012
Simply read about the big bang and dark matter.


The big bang theory is based on the phyiscal laws of the universe



Observational evidence

"[T]he big bang picture is too firmly grounded in data from every area to be proved invalid in its general features."
Lawrence Krauss[55]
The earliest and most direct kinds of observational evidence are the Hubble-type expansion seen in the redshifts of galaxies, the detailed measurements of the cosmic microwave background, the relative abundances of light elements produced by Big Bang nucleosynthesis, and today also the large scale distribution and apparent evolution of galaxies[56] predicted to occur due to gravitational growth of structure in the standard theory. These are sometimes called "the four pillars of the Big Bang theory".[57]
Precise modern models of the Big Bang appeal to various exotic physical phenomena that have not been observed in terrestrial laboratory experiments or incorporated into the Standard Model of particle physics. Of these features, dark matter is currently subjected to the most active laboratory investigations.[58] Remaining issues, such as the cuspy halo problem and the dwarf galaxy problem of cold dark matter, are not fatal to the dark matter explanation as solutions to such problems exist which involve only further refinements of the theory. Dark energy is also an area of intense interest for scientists, but it is not clear whether direct detection of dark energy will be possible.[59] Inflation and baryogenesis remain more speculative features of current Big Bang models: they explain important features of the early universe, but could be replaced by alternative ideas without affecting the rest of the theory.[notes 5][citation needed] Viable, quantitative expla
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Reyginus(m): 8:50pm On Dec 17, 2012
That is not the problem. Let me make it simple: is there any scientific experiment to prove the big b.ang?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by wiegraf: 9:25pm On Dec 17, 2012
Reyginus: That is not the problem. Let me make it simple: is there any scientific experiment to prove the big b.ang?

What do you mean? To recreate the big b.ang or to test its predictions and effects?

On another note, the whole article has a rather poor or biased understanding of the scientific method and effective theories. There's just too much wrong in there that it would take too long to tackle. Anyone who has problems with it should just google 'scientific method'
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 9:31pm On Dec 17, 2012
wiegraf:

What do you mean? To recreate the big b.ang or to test its predictions and effects?

On another note, the whole article has a rather poor or biased understanding of the scientific method and effective theories. There's just too much wrong in there that it would take too long to tackle. Anyone who has problems with it should just google 'scientific method'


Reyginus: That is not the problem. Let me make it simple: is there any scientific experiment to prove the big b.ang?



What do you mean? You want the big bang recreated? There are numerous pieces of evidence supporting the big bang model

Prmordial gas clouds, the age of the universe, expansion of space etc.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Reyginus(m): 9:43pm On Dec 17, 2012
wiegraf:

What do you mean? To recreate the big b.ang or to test its predictions and effects?
What is the proof that there was a big b.ang in the first? Do you only use an experiement to test predictions and effects?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Reyginus(m): 9:47pm On Dec 17, 2012
Logicboy03:






What do you mean? You want the big bang recreated?
Politely speaking, this is a silly question. Why do we ask for an experiment or a proof, is to recreate what we are experimenting or proofing, or to establish a truth?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 9:52pm On Dec 17, 2012
Reyginus: Polite speaking, this is a silly question. Why do we ask for an experiment or a proof, is to recreate what we are experimenting or proofing, or to establish a truth?


Look there are tests and extrapolation on the density and temperature of the expanding universe backwards to get the big bang.


Just google it. Jeez
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Reyginus(m): 10:04pm On Dec 17, 2012
Logicboy03:


Look there are tests and extrapolation on the density and temperature of the expanding universe backwards to get the big bang.


Just google it. Jeez
Lol. You are deliberately misfiring.
How can there be a test of an expanding universe backward to the big bang?lol. How do you test the temperature and density of a phase that is past?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 10:20pm On Dec 17, 2012
Reyginus: Lol. You are deliberately misfiring.
How can there be a test of an expanding universe backward to the big bang?lol. How do you test the temperature and density of a phase that is past?


Simple. The universe is expanding. You trace the trends of its current expansion backwards.



Extrapolation of the expansion of the Universe backwards in time using general relativity yields an infinite density and temperature at a finite time in the past.[12] This singularity signals the breakdown of general relativity. How closely we can extrapolate towards the singularity is debated—certainly no closer than the end of the Planck epoch. This singularity is sometimes called "the Big Bang",[13] but the term can also refer to the early hot, dense phase itself,[14][notes 1] which can be considered the "birth" of our Universe. Based on measurements of the expansion using Type Ia supernovae, measurements of temperature fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background, and measurements of the correlation function of galaxies, the Universe has a calculated age of 13.75 ± 0.11 billion years.[16] The agreement of these three independent measurements strongly supports the ΛCDM model that describes in detail the contents of the Universe
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 10:22pm On Dec 17, 2012
Reyginus: Lol. You are deliberately misfiring.
How can there be a test of an expanding universe backward to the big bang?lol. How do you test the temperature and density of a phase that is past?


i need your answers here please wink
http://www.nairaland.com/1135609/christian-answers-series-1-why
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by edogho(m): 10:47pm On Dec 17, 2012
I don't care all u are saying. Mi only question that i want answered is that i want some1 to give me just one reason why all the apes and monkeys hasn't evolved to a complete human or why man hasn't evolved into something else. If i don't see any reasonable comment,then science is exactly as the beginner of this thread stated.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by wiegraf: 10:50pm On Dec 17, 2012
Reyginus: What is the proof that there was a big b.ang in the first? Do you only use an experiement to test predictions and effects?

That is how you test any theory. Logical evidence to back up the empirical is good as well. Big ban.g has both.

Random: The big ban.g occured, that is a fact. Just like say rain, if it is raining there must have been a way rain was formed. Same thing with the big ba.ng, we can see various effects and deduce so and so are happening or happened that lead to this. With rain for instance we could say pressure changes led to the excess moisture in the atmosphere an thus rain. We can then make predictions to test the theory, so assuming we'd never come across lightning before, we could say if so and so conditions arise then lightning should strike. We then go out and try to create or find these conditions, if we do find lightning then lo and behold, our theory is very likely correct.

This is where things may get a little muddled up, our theory need not be completely accurate or know certain details, like the cause. This does not mean it is wrong though, it means it's simply not complete. As time goes on we work on it and improve it, bit by bit. Newton's theory of gravitation for instance is not wrong, he never claimed to know what caused gravitation or some details about how it works. Even today, it is the default theory used for most day to calculations as using general relativity, which is more accurate, is a lot more complicated and on such small scales as found in your day to day activities the differences between results from the 2 theories are so minute it would be silly to use gr. Anyways, the point is this, newton's theory is not wrong, it's just not complete. General relativity is an improvement on it, and in fact as gr is not complete either there will come a time when a more accurate theory will improve on it, and that won't make gr wrong either.

With the big ba.ng, proof is everywhere, it undoubtedly occurred. What we do not know are some of the details related to how, like what caused it. That does not mean we accept it on faith, it just means some of the details need work, and with time it will be improved.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by edogho(m): 10:51pm On Dec 17, 2012
Logicboy03:


i need your answers here please wink
http://www.nairaland.com/1135609/christian-answers-series-1-why
you say you are logicboy abi? Abeg o. If you didn't experience or let me use see or feel the big bang happening,how do you now claim its true. Such notion is even against science itself. I want proofs before i explode. Mi head is full with all this drama.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 11:02pm On Dec 17, 2012
edogho: I don't care all u are saying. Mi only question that i want answered is that i want some1 to give me just one reason why all the apes and monkeys hasn't evolved to a complete human or why man hasn't evolved into something else. If i don't see any reasonable comment,then science is exactly as the beginner of this thread stated.



lolz.....speciation


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation


I don know why people dont read.



Monkeys will give birth to more evolved monkeys

Humans to more evolved humans.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 11:08pm On Dec 17, 2012
edogho: you say you are logicboy abi? Abeg o. If you didn't experience or let me use see or feel the big bang happening,how do you now claim its true. Such notion is even against science itself. I want proofs before i explode. Mi head is full with all this drama.


A very raw explanation is if you notice the rate expansion of a balloon to a particular size at a temparature when air is being blown from a machine, you can trace it backwards to a point where you can extimate that it was flat.

Something like that
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Reyginus(m): 11:20pm On Dec 17, 2012
Logicboy03:


Simple. The universe is expanding. You trace the trends of its current expansion backwards.



You still don't get it. The problem still is, the big b.ang in the sense of the supernova of a black hole is still not explained. The document only succeeded in taking us to the first phase of things, it didn't tell us how the big b.ang happened. Did it? Like science, I need proof that their was a bang, and not an erroneous description of a singularity as it.
Going by your article, if the big b.ang is the singularity that results in tracing our calculation backward, and caused by a supernova, a greater problem will arise: can a singularity(the begining of all beginings) be caused?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 11:32pm On Dec 17, 2012
Reyginus: You still don't get it. The problem still is, the big b.ang in the sense of the supernova of a black hole is still not explained. The document only succeeded in taking us to the first phase of things, it didn't tell us how the big b.ang happened. Did it? Like science, I need proof that their was a bang, and not an erroneous description of a singularity as it.
Going by your article, if the big b.ang is the singularity that results in tracing our calculation backward, and caused by a supernova, a greater problem will arise: can a singularity(the begining of all beginings) be caused?

The big bang doesnt explain everything.

I think christianity has made you guys demand for perfect systems since you are used to claims of perfection by god and Jesus.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Reyginus(m): 11:44pm On Dec 17, 2012
wiegraf:

That is how you test any theory. Logical evidence to back up the empirical is good as well. Big ban.g has both.

Random: The big ban.g occured, that is a fact. Just like say rain, if it is raining there must have been a way rain was formed. Same thing with the big ba.ng, we can see various effects and deduce so and so are happening or happened that lead to this. With rain for instance we could say pressure changes led to the excess moisture in the atmosphere an thus rain. We can then make predictions to test the theory, so assuming we'd never come across lightning before, we could say if so and so conditions arise then lightning should strike. We then go out and try to create or find these conditions, if we do find lightning then lo and behold, our theory is very likely correct.

This is where things may get a little muddled up, our theory need not be completely accurate or know certain details, like the cause. This does not mean it is wrong though, it means it's simply not complete. As time goes on we work on it and improve it, bit by bit. Newton's theory of gravitation for instance is not wrong, he never claimed to know what caused gravitation or some details about how it works. Even today, it is the default theory used for most day to calculations as using general relativity, which is more accurate, is a lot more complicated and on such small scales as found in your day to day activities the differences between results from the 2 theories are so minute it would be silly to use gr. Anyways, the point is this, newton's theory is not wrong, it's just not complete. General relativity is an improvement on it, and in fact as gr is not complete either there will come a time when a more accurate theory will improve on it, and that won't make gr wrong either.

With the big ba.ng, proof is everywhere, it undoubtedly occurred. What we do not know are some of the details related to how, like what caused it. That does not mean we accept it on faith, it just means some of the details need work, and with time it will be improved.
What exactly is your point? You are equating the formation of rain with the big b.ang? Seriously? What is the water cycle to begin with? What is the function of hydrometer in a phenomenon without a proof?
For now, all you've said are based on assumptions that are even erroneous to put it rightly.
How is proof everywhere yet you've not given any one that supports it?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Reyginus(m): 11:49pm On Dec 17, 2012
Logicboy03:

The big bang doesnt explain everything.

I think christianity has made you guys demand for perfect systems since you are used to claims of perfection by god and Jesus.


No, not christainity but science. Let's not deviate.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 11:55pm On Dec 17, 2012
Reyginus: No, not christainity but science. Let's not deviate.


The big bang is the most useful cosmological theory on the origin of the universe. Ittakes a backwards modelling of the expansion of the universe along with certain physical laws of the universe to egt to a a certain point in history.



You want a total explanation made easy for you of the origin of the universe. God and read genesis if the big bang is too complicated and not spoon-feedable for you
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Reyginus(m): 12:00am On Dec 18, 2012
Logicboy03:


A very raw explanation is if you notice the rate expansion of a balloon to a particular size at a temparature when air is being blown from a machine, you can trace it backwards to a point where you can extimate that it was flat.

Something like that
Wow! This might help us a lot.
Okay, we've traced our balloon to the point where we can draw an inference that it was flat. The issue thus becomes, how did it become flat?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 12:05am On Dec 18, 2012
Reyginus: Wow! This might help us a lot.
Okay, we've traced our balloon to the point where we can draw an inference that it was flat. The issue thus becomes, how did it become flat?


That is the the problem all scientists are getting to. There are many observations of the universe that scientists use to deduce what happened at a point at the beginning of the universe. But there is a point they cant get past.


Are you expecting scientists to know exactly what happened?

We may never know what happened before the balloon was flat. not an easy task
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Reyginus(m): 12:12am On Dec 18, 2012
Logicboy03:


The big bang is the most useful cosmological theory on the origin of the universe. Ittakes a backwards modelling of the expansion of the universe along with certain physical laws of the universe to egt to a a certain point in history.



You want a total explanation made easy for you of the origin of the universe. God and read genesis if the big bang is too complicated and not spoon-feedable for you
Nothing is complicated here. Only that science whose truth can only be gotten from proof is making 'unfounded claims'. Have you ever seen an anti-matter?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Reyginus(m): 12:15am On Dec 18, 2012
Logicboy03:

Are you expecting scientists to know exactly what happened?

We may never know what happened before the balloon was flat. not an easy task

But how come 'we' ascribed it to an explosion? What do you call it when an assumption is taken to be the truth?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 12:21am On Dec 18, 2012
Reyginus: But how come 'we' ascribed it to an explosion? What do you call it when an assumption is taking to be the truth?



Expansion not an explosion.


Underlying assumptions
The Big Bang theory depends on two major assumptions: the universality of physical laws and the cosmological principle. The cosmological principle states that on large scales the Universe is homogeneous and isotropic.
These ideas were initially taken as postulates, but today there are efforts to test each of them. For example, the first assumption has been tested by observations showing that largest possible deviation of the fine structure constant over much of the age of the universe is of order 10−5.[26] Also, general relativity has passed stringent tests on the scale of the Solar System and binary stars while extrapolation to cosmological scales has been validated by the empirical successes of various aspects of the Big Bang theory.[notes 2]
If the large-scale Universe appears isotropic as viewed from Earth, the cosmological principle can be derived from the simpler Copernican principle, which states that there is no preferred (or special) observer or vantage point. To this end, the cosmological principle has been confirmed to a level of 10−5 via observations of the CMB.[notes 3][citation needed] The Universe has been measured to be homogeneous on the largest scales at the 10% level.[
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by wiegraf: 12:26am On Dec 18, 2012
Reyginus: What exactly is your point? You are equating the formation of rain with the big b.ang? Seriously? What is the water cycle to begin with? What is the function of hydrometer in a phenomenon without a proof?
For now, all you've said are based on assumptions that are even erroneous to put it rightly.
How is proof everywhere yet you've not given any one that supports it?

What is this whargabble nonsense? I specified that as 'random', or did you not notice that? But regardless, even if not 'random', it is still very relevant, and you've now displayed either terrible comprehension skills or willful blindness.

The point is to show you how effective theories work. Here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_theory

I do not equate rain to the big b.ang, I use that to simply show how one would deduce or form theories from observable phenomena and sound logical assumptions, shikena. It is not supposed to be an accurate description of how rain is formed ffs. As for proof for the big ba.ng, YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN SHOWN. If you refuse to read or assess it then that's your problem, not mine. Here, plenty, again and more

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang#Observational_evidence
https://www.google.com.ng/search?q=evidence+for+the+big+bang&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Google is always a good friend.

And again, what to take from that is that a theory need not be completely accurate, but that does not mean it is wrong, it simply means it needs some work. The big ban.g is one of those and some details need to be ironed out. Actually, in a sense, you could say all physical theories today need some work until the 'theory of everything' is actually found, as it effect...everything (hence the name).
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by wiegraf: 12:33am On Dec 18, 2012
Reyginus: Nothing is complicated here. Only that science whose truth can only be gotten from proof is making 'unfounded claims'. Have you ever seen an anti-matter?

Like so many other things with science, antimatter was predicted, and guess what, it has been created/observed. For instance, the Higgs Boson which was predicted oh so long ago, eventually confirmed and found. Using only logic for the most part, einstein predicted a star would bend light, lo and behold, he was found to be correct. Sound logic, analyses that can be tested and confirmed, these are not unfounded claims. What are you on about?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Reyginus(m): 12:54am On Dec 18, 2012
wiegraf:

Like so many other things with science, antimatter was predicted, and guess what, it has been created/observed. For instance, the Higgs Boson which was predicted oh so long ago, eventually confirmed and found. Using only logic for the most part, einstein predicted a star would bend light, lo and behold, he was found to be correct. Sound logic, analyses that can be tested and confirmed, these are not unfounded claims. What are you on about?
Lol. Anti-matter has being created? Seriously? How was this possible? From which atom? Practically, not theoritically?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Reyginus(m): 12:56am On Dec 18, 2012
Logicboy03:



Expansion not an explosion.


Lol. Was it expansion or explosion that caused the big bang?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Reyginus(m): 12:59am On Dec 18, 2012
wiegraf:

What is this whargabble nonsense? I specified that as 'random', or did you not notice that? But regardless, even if not 'random', it is still very relevant, and you've now displayed either terrible comprehension skills or willful blindness.

The point is to show you how effective theories work. Here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_theory

I do not equate rain to the big b.ang, I use that to simply show how one would deduce or form theories from observable phenomena and sound logical assumptions, shikena. It is not supposed to be an accurate description of how rain is formed ffs. As for proof for the big ba.ng, YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN SHOWN. If you refuse to read or assess it then that's your problem, not mine. Here, plenty, again and more

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang#Observational_evidence
https://www.google.com.ng/search?q=evidence+for+the+big+bang&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Google is always a good friend.

And again, what to take from that is that a theory need not be completely accurate, but that does not mean it is wrong, it simply means it needs some work. The big ban.g is one of those and some details need to be ironed out. Actually, in a sense, you could say all physical theories today need some work until the 'theory of everything' is actually found, as it effect...everything (hence the name).
Why are you dancing around? The question is, what is the proof of the big b.ang since science deals in proofs?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 1:08am On Dec 18, 2012
Reyginus: Lol. Was it expansion or explosion that caused the big bang?


You are just trolling. I clearly said expansion

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