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Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by wiegraf: 12:32am On Dec 20, 2012
Reyginus: SMH. It seems you've forgotten the arguement we are making here.
No I was simply answering a question

Reyginus: Lol. What are you doing? Are you throwing my question back to me or what?
I thought heisenberg was only showing us how limited our knowledge of physical properties at the subatomic level are? How are you now drawing that reality is not deterministic, when when heisenberg is uncertain what happens at that level?

What are you on about? Do you want me to lie to fit my desired outcome? That's not the way science works, yes?

Reyginus:
You are helping me nail you. Didn't occur to you that since we can't accurately determine the state of a system, when we do so, like we've done with the origin of the universe, it is tantamount to making unfounded claims?

No. We make predictions, nothing physical is 100% sure it would seem, as it is built around odds (and note this is for physical claims not logical, 1+1=2, absolutely). Science does not lie about that, it explicitly makes clear that as for now considering what we know and what the evidence clearly suggests (even physical, lab confirmed evidence, not just abstract), uncertainty holds and this universe is not actually deterministic, so it's all about odds. In practice though, the odds of you actually walking through a wall are so low the machine you are using might right now may not even be able to calculate the number, at least not immediately.

So again, remember effective theories. We don't need to consider quantum effects in most daily life, newtonian mechanics will do just fine. This does not mean either theory is wrong, just one is less accurate. And considering the odds and effects, using the more accurate one in by far the majority of scenario's is ridiculously silly, as the effects would be negligible.

And on another note, aren't you religious? Don't you know determinism implies predestination? Wouldn't that put a wrench into the whole sending people to hell and free will thing?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 1:06am On Dec 20, 2012
^^^ Your last line interests me. But I'm not going to touch on them.
My points are well packaged, where they appear as questions, like in 136, they are meant to be rhetorical and a polite mockery of the scientific explanations.
The question we should be asking here is, if you hold that determinism is not feasible, why then do you explain a phenomenon based on determinism?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by wiegraf: 2:41am On Dec 20, 2012
Reyginus: ^^^ Your last line interests me. But I'm not going to touch on them.
My points are well packaged, where they appear as questions, like in 136, they are meant to be rhetorical and a polite mockery of the scientific explanations.
The question we should be asking here is, if you hold that determinism is not feasible, how then do you explain a phenomenon based on determinism?

Sarcastic? Well I never. I'm now extremely offended angry angry .... sad cheesy

NOTE: I AM NOT 100%. NEITHER IS THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY AS OF NOW. THE EVIDENCE POINTS THAT WAY BUT ONE CANNOT BE FULLY CERTAIN, NOT UNTIL A TRUE THEORY OF EVERYTHING SHOWS UP.

But as it stands now, addressing the bolded question directly, we don't. Quantum mechanics is built around probabilities.

However:
wiegraf:

In practice though, the odds of you actually walking through a wall are so low the machine you are using right now may not even be able to calculate the number, at least not immediately.

So again, remember effective theories. We don't need to consider quantum effects in most daily life, newtonian mechanics will do just fine. This does not mean either theory is wrong, just one is less accurate. And considering the odds and effects, using the more accurate one in by far the majority of scenario's is ridiculously silly, as the effects would be negligible.

This does not amount to unfounded claims, at all. They are built around reason and the best information, tools etc that we have, or the evidence.

Random: philosophically, I suppose you could spin it around however you want to. But science is practical, needs some empiricism, etc. So that question I believe is more philosophical, science could care less.

Like kay said earlier
Kay 17:

Its the ultimate search is for truth not explanation. The big ban.g relates to the beginning of this Universe, there could be many more but I don't believe such. So it is not the beginning of all things, just follow the scientific arguments as they are, don't add your jara. Cos if you do, you will not understand it.


And a semi-related random tidbit, science is very happy with saying "I don't know" when it doesn't. However, that does not mean claims from elsewhere are valid, most especially when said claims have not been proven
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Kay17: 7:11am On Dec 20, 2012
Reyginus:
1. The main thing is, so long you call them assumptions, that they have a basis is not necessary. Because assumptions are not facts.
2. No I'm not. My point is simple. We can only know the causes and effect to the point we our universe began to exist. We can not know the laws governing the system from where originated our universe.
3. Thus the acceptance of any claim it makes.

1. We necessarily hold facts with assumptions. Neither are interpretations facts per se.

2. As I said earlier, if you don't want to work with some assumptions, you can't speak of the origin of the Universe as you are now, cos the physical laws present at the beginning probably doesn't recognize causality.

3. If you understand the workings of Science, you'd understand its claims. And as I said earlier they are provisional.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 1:22pm On Dec 20, 2012
wiegraf:

Sarcastic? Well I never. I'm now extremely offended angry angry .... sad cheesy

NOTE: I AM NOT 100%. NEITHER IS THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY AS OF NOW. THE EVIDENCE POINTS THAT WAY BUT ONE CANNOT BE FULLY CERTAIN, NOT UNTIL A TRUE THEORY OF EVERYTHING SHOWS UP.

But as it stands now, addressing the bolded question directly, we don't. Quantum mechanics is built around probabilities.

However:


This does not amount to unfounded claims, at all. They are built around reason and the best information, tools etc that we have, or the evidence.

Random: philosophically, I suppose you could spin it around however you want to. But science is practical, needs some empiricism, etc. So that question I believe is more philosophical, science could care less.

Like kay said earlier


And a semi-related random tidbit, science is very happy with saying "I don't know" when it doesn't. However, that does not mean claims from elsewhere are valid, most especially when said claims have not been proven
Lololol. Extremely offended? SMH.
I like how you put it: ...NOT UNTIL A TRUE THEORY OF EVERYTHING SHOWS UP.
I will take that to mean that every theory, the big bang inclusive, on ground now is FALSE.
Confusion!!!
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 1:35pm On Dec 20, 2012
Kay 17:

1. We necessarily hold facts with assumptions. Neither are interpretations facts per se.

2. As I said earlier, if you don't want to work with some assumptions, you can't speak of the origin of the Universe as you are now, cos the physical laws present at the beginning probably doesn't recognize causality.

3. If you understand the workings of Science, you'd understand its claims. And as I said earlier they are provisional.
1. I would like to know how we hold facts with assumptions.
2. That we are working with assumptions points to not knowing what happened in the beginning. Since we don't know, whatever we are holding unto is incomplete and thus uncertain. Holding them now as the real deal is baseless. Now you mixing things up. If the laws(I don't think they are physical) present in the onset 'propably' doesn't recognize casuality, why then does science make causal claims?
3. Lol. Is it possible for anything true to be provisional?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Kay17: 2:01pm On Dec 20, 2012
@reyginus

1. An example: you see a dog and believe you saw a dog. You used the assumption your senses are correct.

2. If you believe you can work with pure facts, why ask me for the cause of the Universe, if you know nothing about the laws supposedly present in the beginning? Your questions of why wouldn't make any sense.

3. More or less knowledge. As to truth, huge question marks we have about it.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 2:20pm On Dec 20, 2012
Kay 17: @reyginus

1. An example: you see a dog and believe you saw a dog. You used the assumption your senses are correct.

2. If you believe you can work with pure facts, why ask me for the cause of the Universe, if you know nothing about the laws supposedly present in the beginning? Your questions of why wouldn't make any sense.

3. More or less knowledge. As to truth, huge question marks we have about it.

1. You are not getting the point. You know it is a dog because it has the anatomy of a dog. A dog by the way, has come to be understood. In the case of the big bang, your assumptions cannot hold any fact, because no fact has been initially established.
2. That's what I'm trying to make you understand. For science to make ways, they often make unfounded claims. I only want you to acknowledge it.
No. It will not make sense only if science make factual claims.
3. Lol. You didn't answer my question here. Let me repeat it, is it possible for any true to be provisional? Yes or No?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by wiegraf: 3:44pm On Dec 20, 2012
Reyginus: Lololol. Extremely offended? SMH.
I like how you put it: ...NOT UNTIL A TRUE THEORY OF EVERYTHING SHOWS UP.
I will take that to mean that every theory, the big bang inclusive, on ground now is FALSE.
Confusion!!!

You're blatantly ignoring effective theories. Is it beyond your comprehension? Also note, unlike religion, science is very content with saying it does not know. However, every time science and religion have clashed, religion has received some good bu.tt ra.pe. So, the bold is probably wrong, or since it's a matter of degree on the grand scale of things, at the very least science is a hell of a lot more accurate than religion. Then again you're careful enough to say "I will take that", implying you realize that it's just your subjective opinion, even if just subconsciously. Nice save...cheesy
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Kay17: 5:49pm On Dec 20, 2012
@regynus

1. What if the dog you saw was an illusion? Or you were in a trance or some altered reality What fact will use to prove that dog is real

2. Maybe I wasn't clear to you. The assumptions Science was making, you made the same too, believing the events leading to the big ban.g were under the same laws as now!

3. I answered it.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 5:58pm On Dec 20, 2012
wiegraf:

You're blatantly ignoring effective theories. Is it beyond your comprehension? Also note, unlike religion, science is very content with saying it does not know. However, every time science and religion have clashed, religion has received some good bu.tt ra.pe. So, the bold is probably wrong, or since it's a matter of degree on the grand scale of things, at the very least science is a hell of a lot more accurate than religion. Then again you're careful enough to say "I will take that", implying you realize that it's just your subjective opinion, even if just subconsciously. Nice save...cheesy


What effective theory?
You're trying to bend the blunder you made. Before anything, I would like you to admit the error you made. Or explain to me what you mean by: 'until a true theory shows up'.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 6:09pm On Dec 20, 2012
Kay 17: @regynus

1. What if the dog you saw was an illusion? Or you were in a trance or some altered reality What fact will use to prove that dog is real

2. Maybe I wasn't clear to you. The assumptions Science was making, you made the same too, believing the events leading to the big ban.g were under the same laws as now!

3. I answered it.
Lol.
1. Is it even possible to consciously see an illusion?
2. As it stands now, it doesn't matter what I believe. That I even believe in anything does not make it true. Don't forget the concern here is the claim of science. I really don't understand how it is possible to believe a theory without facts on the events prior to creation and still claim science is all facts.
3. With a yes or no?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by wiegraf: 6:34pm On Dec 20, 2012
Reyginus:
What effective theory?
You're trying to bend the blunder you made. Before anything, I would like you to admit the error you made. Or explain to me what you mean by: 'until a true theory shows up'.

Erm, what blunder?

Not until a 'a true theory of everything'? Is that what you were on about when you said FALSE?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_everything

Quantum mechanics/the standard model is not a theory of everything. Neither is general relativity.

String theory is a theory of everything, incomplete and unproven. There are others, all incomplete, not yet falsifiable. So string theory for instance is not a 'true' theory, it's more a very grand hypothesis. When it is confirmed and proven 'true' then it will become a 'true theory of everything', in my speak.

And after all of that, you still don't know what effective theories are? Gr and quantum mechanics, nay, the standard model are 'true' theories, tested and confirmed...

I state you should wait for a true theory of everything before settling determinism because gr and quantum mechanics are not linked yet, so we don't have the full picture. There might still be a deterministic foundation which qm builds on (though I personally doubt that)

*smh*
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Kay17: 8:51pm On Dec 20, 2012
Reyginus: Lol.
1. Is it even possible to consciously see an illusion?
2. As it stands now, it doesn't matter what I believe. That I even believe in anything does not make it true. Don't forget the concern here is the claim of science. I really don't understand how it is possible to believe a theory without facts on the events prior to creation and still claim science is all facts.
3. With a yes or no?

1. Optical illusions for example.

2. You weren't convincing with your point here.

3. Science doesn't say much about truths, its more concerned with knowledge.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 10:16pm On Dec 20, 2012
wiegraf:

Erm, what blunder?

Not until a 'a true theory of everything'? Is that what you were on about when you said FALSE?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_everything

Quantum mechanics/the standard model is not a theory of everything. Neither is general relativity.

String theory is a theory of everything, incomplete and unproven. There are others, all incomplete, not yet falsifiable. So string theory for instance is not a 'true' theory, it's more a very grand hypothesis. When it is confirmed and proven 'true' then it will become a 'true theory of everything', in my speak.

And after all of that, you still don't know what effective theories are? Gr and quantum mechanics, nay, the standard model are 'true' theories, tested and confirmed...

I state you should wait for a true theory of everything before settling determinism because gr and quantum mechanics are not linked yet, so we don't have the full picture. There might still be a deterministic foundation which qm builds on (though I personally doubt that)

*smh*
Mr man, their is a difference between 'complete' and 'truth'. That a thing is not complete does not make it untrue. A thing can be complete but not true. To posit that we have to wait for a true theory only tells that the present theories are false.
So, you are still not making sense.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 10:22pm On Dec 20, 2012
Kay 17:

1. Optical illusions for example.

2. You weren't convincing with your point here.

3. Science doesn't say much about truths, its more concerned with knowledge.

1. What do you mean by optical illusions.
2. You know what I think. Truth is even better than conviction. You can be convinced on a thing that is false.
3. What is hard to admit here. You made a claim that scientific truths are provisional. I asked if truth can be provisional? Just a yes or no. Why are you making it seem difficult?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Kay17: 11:16pm On Dec 20, 2012
Reyginus:
1. What do you mean by optical illusions.
2. You know what I think. Truth is even better than conviction. You can be convinced on a thing that is false.
3. What is hard to admit here. You made a claim that scientific truths are provisional. I asked if truth can be provisional? Just a yes or no. Why are you making it seem difficult?

1. Try to Google that.

2. Ok, you haven't made sense yet.

3. I assume the truth is constant. grin
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by wiegraf: 11:28pm On Dec 20, 2012
Reyginus: Mr man, their is a difference between 'complete' and 'truth'. That a thing is not complete does not make it untrue. A thing can be complete but not true. To posit that we have to wait for a true theory only tells that the present theories are false.
So, you are still not making sense.

The hell??

String theory, theories of everything are not TRUE, they are not incomplete, they are not even THEORIES

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

They have zero empirical evidence, they have not supplied any testable predictions (that cannot be attributed to something else). If science went about calling string theory a proper theory you would be among the first people who would (rightly) come here shouting how is this science? ALL TOE ARE NOT 'TRUE' THEORIES, THEY ARE MERE HYPOTHESIS regardless of how they may seem, that is what I used the word 'true' to indicate

GR, EVOLUTION AND STANDARD MODEL ON THE OTHER HAND ARE PROPER, 'TRUE' OR GENUINE THEORIES. THESE ONES HOWEVER, ARE NOT FULLY COMPLETE UNTIL A TRUE TOE IS FOUND. They represent part of the bigger picture, which is what we are looking for.

Is that clear?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 12:23am On Dec 21, 2012
Kay 17:

1. Try to Google that.

2. Ok, you haven't made sense yet.

3. I assume the truth is constant. grin
1. How about you tell me?
2. Lol. Science might have caused it too. You can never tell. Lol.
3. I know is hard to admit you were wrong. I understand. Another problem again. You don't assume that truth is constant. We know truth is. To claim that truth is 'assumed' to be constant is self-contradictory. To assume, is to have a quality closer to truth. That I look like my father doesn't mean I am him. How can something closer to truth be truth?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 12:38am On Dec 21, 2012
wiegraf:

The hell??

String theory, theories of everything are not TRUE, they are not incomplete, they are not even THEORIES

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

They have zero empirical evidence, they have not supplied any testable predictions (that cannot be attributed to something else). If science went about calling string theory a proper theory you would be among the first people who would (rightly) come here shouting how is this science? ALL TOE ARE NOT 'TRUE' THEORIES, THEY ARE MERE HYPOTHESIS regardless of how they may seem, that is what I used the word 'true' to indicate

GR, EVOLUTION AND STANDARD MODEL ON THE OTHER HAND ARE PROPER, 'TRUE' OR GENUINE THEORIES. THESE ONES HOWEVER, ARE NOT FULLY COMPLETE UNTIL A TRUE TOE IS FOUND. They represent part of the bigger picture, which is what we are looking for.

Is that clear?
Lol. You don't understand it, do you? Let me help you out. That a theory is untrue doesn't mean it won't work. It only shows that the principle behind the workings is independent of the theories we establish. You can compose a thesis giving reasons while the sun is white. So long your reasons are logically in accordance with the already established facts, you will be scored an A. The thesis might be wrong, but your explanations work.
The theory in most cases is meant to explain to us why it thinks a particular thing operates. Though it might be untrue, but once it sounds rational to us, we accept it to be.
Now that I've solved the puzzle for you, is it clear?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Vansnickers: 12:47am On Dec 21, 2012
@OP

The Big Three of Science are Newton, Darwin and "wait for it" Sigmund Freud not Einstein, these three Men Launched the World into the "Age of Realism" era popularly known as the industrial era characterized by the great growth in science, philosophy and technology.

How can you put Dawkins in the same list as Stephen Hawking?! Are you for real? Stephen Hawkings is in a league of his own. I find your comment on Galileo very laughable! Galileo is regarded as the father of modern science, his and Copernicus's studies paved the way for Newton's Gravitational Theory, Einstein's Relativity Theory, Hawking's Theory on Black holes emitting radiation and so many others!
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by wiegraf: 1:12am On Dec 21, 2012
Reyginus: Lol. You don't understand it, do you? Let me help you out. That a theory is untrue doesn't mean it won't work. It only shows that the principle behind the workings is independent of the theories we establish. You can compose a thesis giving reasons while the sun is white. So long your reasons are logically in accordance with the already established facts, you will be scored an A. The thesis might be wrong, but your explanations work.
The theory in most cases is meant to explain to us why it thinks a particular thing operates. Though it might be untrue, but once it sounds rational to us, we accept it to be.
Now that I've solved the puzzle for you, is it clear?

You don't understand what a scientific theory is, do you? What you describe here is a hypothesis. Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothesis

wiki:
A hypothesis (from Ancient Greek ὑπόθεσις, from Greek ὑποτιθέναι – hypotithenai meaning "to put under" or "to suppose," plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon. For a hypothesis to be a scientific hypothesis, the scientific method requires that one can test it. Scientists generally base scientific hypotheses on previous observations that cannot satisfactorily be explained with the available scientific theories. Even though the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously, a scientific hypothesis is not the same as a scientific theory. A scientific hypothesis is a proposed explanation of a phenomenon which still have to be rigorously tested. In contrast, a scientific theory has undergone extensive testing and is generally accepted to be the accurate explanation behind an observation. A working hypothesis is a provisionally accepted hypothesis proposed for further research.


Now that I've solved the puzzle for you, is it clear?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Kay17: 9:47am On Dec 21, 2012
Reyginus:
1. How about you tell me?
2. Lol. Science might have caused it too. You can never tell. Lol.
3. I know is hard to admit you were wrong. I understand. Another problem again. You don't assume that truth is constant. We know truth is. To claim that truth is 'assumed' to be constant is self-contradictory. To assume, is to have a quality closer to truth. That I look like my father doesn't mean I am him. How can something closer to truth be truth?

1. Seriously try Google.

3. Ok, how do you know the truth? And prove that statement "truths are constant" true.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 12:06pm On Dec 21, 2012
wiegraf:

You don't understand what a scientific theory is, do you? What you describe here is a hypothesis. Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothesis




Now that I've solved the puzzle for you, is it clear?
lol. Dude, you have no point. You even need to understand what it means to work with the mechanisms of science, before you even understand what an unfounded claim is to science. For now we are not communicating. While I'm thinking, you are googling.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 12:15pm On Dec 21, 2012
Kay 17:

1. Seriously try Google.

3. Ok, how do you know the truth? And prove that statement "truths are constant" true.

¤What's all this talk about google. Google might give a different explanation to what you understand it to be.
¤ You don't want to answer my question, but I will answer yours.
You know a thing is true, when it is absolute. What do you mean by statement truths? Answer my question by the way.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by wiegraf: 2:11pm On Dec 21, 2012
Reyginus: lol. Dude, you have no point. You even need to understand what it means to by the mechanisms of science before you even understand what an unfounded claim is to science. For now we are not communicating. While I'm thinking, you are googling.



If you wanted to dodge you should just have ignored the post rather than bringing it to my attention. This post doesn't even make sense mostly because the grammar is a bit off. But from what I can tell, baseless assumptions everywhere. The weirdest one being the assumption that you're thinking.

You asked me to explain why I say current TOE are not true theories, I do so clearly by pointing out they're hypothesis, not theories. You try to define theory with this sorry definition,

Reyginus: That a theory is untrue doesn't mean it won't work. It only shows that the principle behind the workings is independent of the theories we establish. You can compose a thesis giving reasons while the sun is white. So long your reasons are logically in accordance with the already established facts, you will be scored an A. The thesis might be wrong, but your explanations work.
The theory in most cases is meant to explain to us why it thinks a particular thing operates. Though it might be untrue, but once it sounds rational to us, we accept it to be.

I point out you are wrong, mostly because, again

wiki:
Even though the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously, a scientific hypothesis is not the same as a scientific theory. A scientific hypothesis is a proposed explanation of a phenomenon which still have to be rigorously tested. In contrast, a scientific theory has undergone extensive testing and is generally accepted to be the accurate explanation behind an observation. A working hypothesis is a provisionally accepted hypothesis proposed for further research.

So, in your own description above, where is testing? Predictions? Nothing in there except conjecture
? How the hell is that a scientific theory? Guess what, by accepting string theory etc as proper theories science will be doing exactly what you accuse it of doing; making unfounded claims. You don't seem to know the scientific method, scientific theories etc are. You are arguing blindly it would seem

Then you tell me I don't have a point? You, ser, are now boldly trolling...
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Kay17: 2:26pm On Dec 21, 2012
Reyginus:
¤What's all this talk about google. Google might give a different explanation to what you understand it to be.
¤ You don't want to answer my question, but I will answer yours.
You know a thing is true, when it is absolute. What do you mean by statement truths? Answer my question by the way.

1. But isn't it the same Google I will source a link? Better still do it yourself and respond. Its too trivial.

3. Absolute statements make truth?? "I'm probably going to work" false? "I'm going to work" truth?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 7:20pm On Dec 21, 2012
wiegraf:



If you wanted to dodge you should just have ignored the post rather than bringing it to my attention. This post doesn't even make sense mostly because the grammar is a bit off. But from what I can tell, baseless assumptions everywhere. The weirdest one being the assumption that you're thinking.

You asked me to explain why I say current TOE are not true theories, I do so clearly by pointing out they're hypothesis, not theories. You try to define theory with this sorry definition,



I point out you are wrong, mostly because, again



So, in your own description above, where is testing? Predictions? Nothing in there except conjecture
? How the hell is that a scientific theory? Guess what, by accepting string theory etc as proper theories science will be doing exactly what you accuse it of doing; making unfounded claims. You don't seem to know the scientific method, scientific theories etc are. You are arguing blindly it would seem

Then you tell me I don't have a point? You, ser, are now boldly trolling...



You know what. I see no reason in arguing with anybody that don't want to think. Your views are as changing as you google search. If you want to think, we can continue. If you want to copy and paste, then claim you have no perfect understanding of what you are pasting, I can never understand what you think. That said, are you ready to think?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 7:22pm On Dec 21, 2012
Kay 17:

1. But isn't it the same Google I will source a link? Better still do it yourself and respond. Its too trivial.

3. Absolute statements make truth?? "I'm probably going to work" false? "I'm going to work" truth?
1. Why are you afraid of explaining a word you used which I don't understand? I don't understand.
2. Lol. What do you even term absolute statements to begin with?
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by wiegraf: 10:20pm On Dec 21, 2012
Reyginus: You know what. I see no reason in arguing with anybody that don't want to think. Your views are as changing as you google search. If you want to think, we can continue. If you want to copy and paste, then claim you have no perfect understanding of what you are pasting, I can never understand what you think. That said, are you ready to think?

Eh, bros, you have no understanding at all, non. My views are changing where and how? Show me. Another baseless accusation. I've already told you all that's needed to be known without quotes, several times, so all this talk about quoting is well The quoting is even followed by explanations, WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?

If you have a problem with quoting definitions, then you are not going anywhere. You want to redefine terms as you see fit? Seriously? Theories are not hypothesis.

Theories of everything are called theories but they are not so, at all. They're not testable yet, even if they've gotten the word 'theory' attached to them. They are scientific, but not yet scientific theories. And this is not my opinion, even the wiki article makes this explicitly clear, some hypothesis are called theory but they are obviously not. If I called string theory a real theory you'd be the first here to say I was making unfounded claims, and you'd be justified. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Now, THIS HAS BEEN MY VIEW FROM THE VERY BEGGINNING HENCE MY USE OF THE WORD 'TRUE'. It's to set the distinction. There are TOE, but they're all hypothesis even if they have the word 'theory' in their names, like string theory. These are in no way true theories like gr, evolution or the standard model. Actually these aren't my views, they are the facts. I expected you to know all this, seems not, else I suppose I might have done more hand holding. But this is getting excessive.

That said ask questions, I'll be happy to oblige. Do you still have problems with why I use the word 'true'? I hope at least that's been settled.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Nobody: 10:58pm On Dec 21, 2012
wiegraf:

Eh, bros, you have no understanding at all, non. My views are changing where and how? Show me. Another baseless accusation. I've already told you all that's needed to be known without quotes, several times, so all this talk about quoting is well The quoting is even followed by explanations, WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?

If you have a problem with quoting definitions, then you are not going anywhere. You want to redefine terms as you see fit? Seriously? Theories are not hypothesis.

Theories of everything are called theories but they are not so, at all. They're not testable yet, even if they've gotten the word 'theory' attached to them. They are scientific, but not yet scientific theories. And this is not my opinion, even the wiki article makes this explicitly clear, some hypothesis are called theory but they are obviously not. If I called string theory a real theory you'd be the first here to say I was making unfounded claims, and you'd be justified. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Now, THIS HAS BEEN MY VIEW FROM THE VERY BEGGINNING HENCE MY USE OF THE WORD 'TRUE'. It's to set the distinction. There are TOE, but they're all hypothesis even if they have the word 'theory' in their names, like string theory. These are in no way true theories like gr, evolution or the standard model. Actually these aren't my views, they are the facts. I expected you to know all this, seems not, else I suppose I might have done more hand holding. But this is getting excessive.

That said ask questions, I'll be happy to oblige. Do you still have problems with why I use the word 'true'? I hope at least that's been settled.

Lol. Now that you've decided to think, can we move on? Oh yes, we can.
I'm starting from the root of the matter, the big bang.
Our theory suggests there was a massive explosion of a singularity. This stirred up the universe as we know it. It went further to posit the big b.ang was the beginning.
That claim is too much to be swallowed. I know all there is, cannot be made to explode. This thing that carried it out surely cannot be part of the singularity, neglecting the fact the theory acknowledged the action of a beginner. The options leading us to this path are, it is either the big bang is not the beginning or it is. Our theory holds it is. The self-contradiction is clear to any unbiased mind. It is not possible for a thing which was caused to begin, to be the beginning. I wonder how anybody could take such theory as the truth.
I don't know if there is a way the beginning of all things will be made to begin. Maybe you tell me.
Re: Top 10 Reasons Science Is Another Religion by Kay17: 11:56pm On Dec 21, 2012
@ reyginus. Ok I will do the work for you.
http://www.illusions.org/

http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_illusion

3. You were the one that said all absolute statements are true

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