mazaje: I got some of these questions from another board but will like you to answer them.

1. Do you believe that you have a soul that survives death?
2. If you answered yes to #1, where is this soul currently located in the human body? (Be specific)
3. How is this soul affixed to the body while you are alive?
4. By what means does it become disconnected from the body at the point of death?
5. Do animals, insects and unicellular organisims have souls? If no, why not?
6. By what means do we obtain this soul? Why is it not described in any scholarly work regarding the conception of human beings?
7. Where is our soul before we are conceived?Is it created out of "nothing"? What is it created out of? How is the soul distinct from the body?
8. Is the soul different from consciousness?
9. Is there a difference between the soul and the intelligence/character of the human?

For example: if a person sustains severe brain damage that dramatically alters their character or intellect(it happens a lot) completely, does that mean:

a) The soul sustained equal damage to the brain and is changed in exactly the same way?
b) The soul was not damaged, but parts of it are thereafter "locked off" due to the physical damage?

This ones will do for now.

From a biblical point of view, answer to (1) is NO. Case closed.

A living man is a living soul, so is a living animal. "....man BECAME a living soul" - Gen 2:7

When people die, we say souls perished - ie the people died.

Nothing survives after death. The brain is the centre of intelligence, so if it dies, we die. Without the brain, no more intelligence for a human.Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else.

Only those who misunderstand the Bible will dance around this.

TroGunn:

From a biblical point of view, answer to (1) is NO. Case closed.

A living man is a living soul, so is a living animal. "....man BECAME a living soul" - Gen 2:7

When people die, we say souls perished - ie the people died.

Nothing survives after death. The brain is the centre of intelligence, so if it dies, we die. Without the brain, no more intelligence for a human.Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else.

Only those who misunderstand the Bible will dance around this.

They are ever learning and dancing round in circles , and never coming to a knowledge of the truth.

TroGunn:

From a biblical point of view, answer to (1) is NO. Case closed.

A living man is a living soul, so is a living animal. "....man BECAME a living soul" - Gen 2:7

When people die, we say souls perished - ie the people died.

Nothing survives after death. The brain is the centre of intelligence, so if it dies, we die. Without the brain, no more intelligence for a human.Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else.

Only those who misunderstand the Bible will dance around this.

@Trogunn I wouldn’t want us to digress the discussion, so I have created a thread for this your quote here https://www.nairaland.com/1147695/body-soul

TroGunn:

From a biblical point of view, answer to (1) is NO. Case closed.

A living man is a living soul, so is a living animal. "....man BECAME a living soul" - Gen 2:7

When people die, we say souls perished - ie the people died.

Nothing survives after death. The brain is the centre of intelligence, so if it dies, we die. Without the brain, no more intelligence for a human.Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else.

Only those who misunderstand the Bible will dance around this.

Huh? what bible are you reading?

Reyginus: I like the way the thread is going. Not like the usual Pull Him Down syndrome.

Lol, so you noticed.....

mazaje:

Numbers are represented by symbols. . . .

You and I both know that there is a world of difference between a concept and the symbols that represent it.

Let's proceed:

There is a way that soft ware is affixed to a disk and it is well explained here



So what does our soul make our body do?. . . Is it our soul that make us reason, think, dream, display emotion etc?

Which of the two above do you want me to expand upon?

They are not random. The brain is made up of cells called neurons. These cells have nerve endings called synapses and dendrites. Nerve endings release chemical and electrical stimuli to communicate with each other. This brain communication forms neuro-pathways in the brain and is the basis for how the brain works. Lets take the temporal lobes for example. . .When I listen to rap music for example, my brain responds through the activity of these lobes. At the top of each temporal lobe is an area responsible for receiving information from my ears. The underside of each temporal lobe plays a crucial role in forming and retrieving memories, including those associated with rap and other types of music on general. They have a working process and are not random. . .

It appears that you still missed the question I was asking even after I gave a small essay to explain my question. I was asking a question of the will however you have answered a question of mechanism. My question wasn't about how these chemical reactions start to work but why they begin to work in a certain way in the first place.

Let me use your illustration to show you what I mean...

For instance, you seem to be of the view that when you listen to rap music there is a chain of events which trigger certain responses and then based on previous responses to music, you decide whether you like it or not. The way you answered the question seems to suggest that it is the stimuli itself that determines whether you will want to listen to it again.
So just to be clear, are you saying that once you listen to a rap song, you will have no other choice than to press the replay button as long as you have a particular music history?
Or are you still in control of how you respond to the stimuli i.e. can you still choose not to replay the song even if you like it?

Basically my question is who is in control of your thoughts? is it you (i.e. your will) or are your thoughts merely a chemical response to random stimuli and therefore can happen no other way? Where does the autonomy lie?

In short: Can you choose what you want to think about and proceed to think about it?

davidylan:

Huh? what bible are you reading?

hmm good question! I created a thread to avoid derailing mazaje and anony had already started, am still waiting for his response. Frosbel maybe you could help out since you are not ever learning becos you have come to the knowledge of the truth!

hisblud: @Trogunn I wouldn’t want us to digress the discussion, so I have created a thread for this your quote here https://www.nairaland.com/1147695/body-soul

Thx. We'll take it up from there.

davidylan:

Huh? what bible are you reading?

The same bible that clearly shows what soul is and that it dies - not the convoluted Greek-derived definition of soul. Let's leave Anony to sort himself out here. Will lay bare my points with scriptural backing in the other thread.

Mr_Anony: You and I both know that there is a world of difference between a concept and the symbols that represent it.

Let's proceed:

Which of the two above do you want me to expand upon?

So what does our soul make our body do?. . . Is it our soul that make us reason, think, dream, display emotion etc?

It appears that you still missed the question I was asking even after I gave a small essay to explain my question. I was asking a question of the will however you have answered a question of mechanism. My question wasn't about how these chemical reactions start to work but why they begin to work in a certain way in the first place.

Ok.. . . .

Let me use your illustration to show you what I mean...

For instance, you seem to be of the view that when you listen to rap music there is a chain of events which trigger certain responses and then based on previous responses to music, you decide whether you like it or not. The way you answered the question seems to suggest that it is the stimuli itself that determines whether you will want to listen to it again.
So just to be clear, are you saying that once you listen to a rap song, you will have no other choice than to press the replay button as long as you have a particular music history?
Or are you still in control of how you respond to the stimuli i.e. can you still choose not to replay the song even if you like it?

Basically my question is who is in control of your thoughts? is it you (i.e. your will) or are your thoughts merely a chemical response to random stimuli and therefore can happen no other way? Where does the autonomy lie?

In short: Can you choose what you want to think about and proceed to think about it?

Thought is something that develops with time based on stored memory and knowledge which have everything to do with the brain, the will to think I believe is a function of stored memory and knowledge which is all initiated in the brain. . .Infants who have no knowledge of anything or stored memory in their brains are unable to think for themselves, they can only speak to themselves. . . .As we grow and store more memory in our brains and gain more knowledge, we develop the ability to internalise this speech, and can eventually have a purely internal monologue. . . .So my answer to you question is yes, you can chose what you want to think about and go ahead to think about it. . .The thinking all involves different mechanisms in the brain. . .The will to think I believe is all initiated in the brain. . .

davidylan:

Huh? what bible are you reading?

can you show a portion of the bible that say that the soul is immortal?

If not, and it is not contain in the bible but you still wish to pass such as the truth its then either God was sleeping when the bible was written or the concept of an immortal soul is false and not the truth of the bible but a product of greek philosophy of plato.

TroGunn:


Nothing survives after death

THIS IS ABSOLUTE HERESY YOU NEED TO BE LASHED THOROUGHLY WITH KOBOKO FOR THE BOLDED STATEMENT

ECCLESIASTES 12 VS 7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it

2 ESDRAS 14 VS 35 For after death shall the judgment come, when we shall live again: and then shall the names of the righteous be manifest, and the works of the ungodly shall be declared.

obadiah777: THIS IS ABSOLUTE HERESY YOU NEED TO BE LASHED THOROUGHLY WITH KOBOKO FOR THE BOLDED STATEMENT

My dear that's the fact life. Forget the fanciful Greek philosophy. More details below from the other thread:

In the bible, the word "soul" is used to mean a person, an animal, or the life a person or an animal has.

Gen 2:7 - shows the person is the soul. Same as Gen 1:24 - "And God said, Let the earth bring forth living souls after their kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth, after their kind. And it was so" (Darbys).

Example of soul being used to refer to "life is Acts 20:10 - "To whom, when Paul had gone down, he laid himself upon him, and embracing him, said: Be not troubled, for his soul is in him". (Douay Rheims). Most translations use life, though it should be soul.

Now to the questions:

1. When God formed man, “Gen 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground”, was he alive or not alive then before God breath into him?
He wasn't alive, of course before God gave "breath of life" or life-force ( also called spirit). Lifeless Body + breath of life = living man (= living soul). The "breath of life" is different from soul - different words are used.

2. The brain, centre of intelligence, was/is it not part of the formed man apart from the breath of God?
Yes, God created man's body with a brain, but without the "breath of life" from God, it remained lifeless.

3. Is it not the combination of dust(formed man including his brain) and God’s breath that together form a Living soul?
This is very correct, from Gen 2:7

4. When you say, Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else, does the breath of God dies along with the body?
The "breath of life" is not a living being, by itself. It's impersonnal. It's the spark of life that's from God. When one dies, the person no longer has that life-force. In a way we can say that "breath of God" returns to God because he is the source of life, but not as an independent intelligent living being.
Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life"

5. Quoting you, “A living man is a living soul”, are you meaning “ a living body is animated by a living soul”?
No. A living man is a living soul. A dead man is a dead soul. End of. Body + breath of life = living man ( living soul). Souls (humans or animals) die.
Ezekiel 18:4 - "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Ezekiel 22:27 - "Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain"
Jas 5:20 - "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins".
Acts 3:23 - "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."
Rev 16:3 - "And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea".

6 Finally, what did Jesus mean in this verse --> Matt 10:28-29 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.NIV

Here soul is used to mean "life" or prospect of life. Jesus here meant we should be concerned about God who can deprive us of life. Satan and his agents can kill us, but God can give us life again ( in ressurection). Only God can permanently take away life from a person - as if by burning in a fire, meaning permanent destruction without possibility of ressurection.

TroGunn:

My dear that's the fact life. Forget the fanciful Greek philosophy. More details below from the other thread:

In the bible, the word "soul" is used to mean a person, an animal, or the life a person or an animal has.

Gen 2:7 - shows the person is the soul. Same as Gen 1:24 - "And God said, Let the earth bring forth living souls after their kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth, after their kind. And it was so" (Darbys).

Example of soul being used to refer to "life is Acts 20:10 - "To whom, when Paul had gone down, he laid himself upon him, and embracing him, said: Be not troubled, for his soul is in him". (Douay Rheims). Most translations use life, though it should be soul.

Now to the questions:

1. When God formed man, “Gen 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground”, was he alive or not alive then before God breath into him?
He wasn't alive, of course before God gave "breath of life" or life-force ( also called spirit). Lifeless Body + breath of life = living man (= living soul). The "breath of life" is different from soul - different words are used.

2. The brain, centre of intelligence, was/is it not part of the formed man apart from the breath of God?
Yes, God created man's body with a brain, but without the "breath of life" from God, it remained lifeless.

3. Is it not the combination of dust(formed man including his brain) and God’s breath that together form a Living soul?
This is very correct, from Gen 2:7

4. When you say, Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else, does the breath of God dies along with the body?
The "breath of life" is not a living being, by itself. It's impersonnal. It's the spark of life that's from God. When one dies, the person no longer has that life-force. In a way we can say that "breath of God" returns to God because he is the source of life, but not as an independent intelligent living being.
Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life"

5. Quoting you, “A living man is a living soul”, are you meaning “ a living body is animated by a living soul”?
No. A living man is a living soul. A dead man is a dead soul. End of. Body + breath of life = living man ( living soul). Souls (humans or animals) die.
Ezekiel 18:4 - "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Ezekiel 22:27 - "Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain"
Jas 5:20 - "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins".
Acts 3:23 - "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."
Rev 16:3 - "And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea".

6 Finally, what did Jesus mean in this verse --> Matt 10:28-29 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.NIV

Here soul is used to mean "life" or prospect of life. Jesus here meant we should be concerned about God who can deprive us of life. Satan and his agents can kill us, but God can give us life again ( in ressurection). Only God can permanently take away life from a person - as if by burning in a fire, meaning permanent destruction without possibility of ressurection.

TOO MANY POINTS MADE I DONT KNOW WHERE TO START LOL. ANYWAY THE BREATH OF LIFE IS A SYMBOLIC PHRASE FOR SAYING 'SPIRIT'. 'PNEUMA' 'SPIRITUS'. AND THE SOUL IS ETERNAL. WHILE THE BODY DIES AND GOES INTO THE GROUND, THE SOUL RETURNS TO GOD ( ECCLESIASTES 12 VS 7 ). HOWEVER WHILE THE SOUL AS AN ENTITY IS ETERNAL, THE SOUL CAN BE SHUTDOWN AND 'KILLED'. MEANING IT CAN BE DETACHED FROM ITS LIFE SOURCE. LIKE THERE ARE HUMANS WALKING AROUND TODAY WITH DEAD SOULS. THEIR SOULS ARE NOT LIVING. SO IN CONCLUSION, THE SOUL AS AN ENTITY IS ETERNAL HOWEVER THE SOUL CAN BE PUT IN DARKNESS ( KILLED IN HELL )


MATTHEW 10 VS 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

EZEKIEL 18 VS 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

JOHN 6 VS 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. <<< THE LORD CAN MAKE YOUR SOUL ALIVE OR HE CAN KILL IT IN DARKNESS.

AND I USE SOUL AND SPIRIT INTERCHANGEABLY BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SAME THING. SOUL IS ATTACHED TO A BODY. THATS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE. WHILE THE SPIRIT IS DETACHED FROM A BODY IN DEATH.

Mazaje speaks as though the brain, and not the entire human, is a being of itself.

I have had this very same discussion on the brain with atheists on this forum ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

I reproduce that which I wrote which is relevant to some of Anony's very simple, clear and lucid points -

Deep Sight:

Now this has always intrigued me: when people say – it’s all about the brain.

I ask you: What is the Brain’s motivation in doing these things? Is the Brain a self-satisfying entity that for its own idiosyncrasies creates these mind states?

To put the question in simpler terms – do those neurons in your brain have a motivation for doing what they do? Because you are making it appear as though true life is all about the neurons and that what we enjoy in the world: love, wealth, pleasure, passion – are only side-effects or residue of the activity of such neurons. You are making the Neurons the only things that have purpose, whereas we, complete beings that we are, are purposeless, and rely on the whims of our neurons, obeying the commands of such neurons in whatever state.

This would mean that we are slaves, and have no will or consciousness, but are mere puppets being controlled by our masters – the neurons. The neurons are now the super race – they control us in absoluteness, and we are irrelevant.

In short, you have made the brain a being all by itself. The rest of you exists only to satisfy that little clump of matter.

Now this to me is just like the statement of that great carpenter: “Is man made for the Sabbath, or the Sabbath made for man?”

Is the brain made for man, or man made for the Brain?

You make it appear as though man is made for the brain.

I would have thought that the brain is a TOOL via which man apprehends the world.

Deep Sight:

Right. Might i ask you two to re-focus.

You are busy talking about the capacities of the brain. That is very well understood. But you need to respond one way or the other to my suggestion that it is a TOOL which man uses to APPREHEND the world. What say you to that?

In this do not be led astray by the fact that physical substances as you pointed out can affect the mood or state of mind. Given that the brain is a tool of the intangible mind, this is only to be expected, as it works in strict and direct association with the entire physiology of the man.

If the brain were really the man himself, then -

1. People who have near - death experiences in which the brain has already shut down (they are classified as brain-dead i.e: absolute zero neural activity and heart stopped for the period) would not be able to return to consciousness reporting visions they had in such a state. You may want to do some brief research on the well-documented cases of such near-death experiences.

2. It is also very well documented that some people have dreams about future events, which turn out to play out in startling detail. This has been my personal experience from a very young age right up till today. Might you want to suggest to me in what part of the brain such details of future events were stored?


3. How would you explain telepathy, psycho-kinesis, intuition and other human paranormal phenomena?

Nevertheless the foregoing is really all an aside. Because the core question remains the role of the brain: both of you are suggesting that the brain is the actual being – that the whole of mankind obey the dictates of neurons whose motivation must be presumed to be unknown and unknowable. Those neurons are working in concert towards the holistic perception of the man. Thus he hears, sees, feels, smells and taste, among many other functions.

Who is tasting that sweet? You make it appear as though the neurons for their own pleasure are tasting the sweet. The man is tasting the sweet through the faculty of the tongue and messages sent thereby to his brain and processed therein.

And who is hearing that music. Again you both make it appear as though the neurons arte having a party drinking wine and shagging babes inside the brain as they enjoy that music. That is absurd of course. Again, we see that the MAN is hearing and enjoying the music THROUGH the faculty of the ear and messages passed to the brain thereby and processed therein.

Who is appreciating that superb piece of art by Leonardo Da Vinci? I suppose the neurons are also art gurus, and are really enjoying the oil on canvass. Of course the man, through the faculty of the eyes, and messages sent back to the brain, - is appreciating that painting.

Now the fact that the brain works in concert with other body parts proves the point conclusively.

Why do you have a pair of eyes – so that the brain can see – or so that YOU can see?

Perhaps when you have sex, the neurons in your brain are gasping oooo and aaaah, because they just love it? No, the neurons help the man to experience the sensation.

So my trouble is that you guys make it appear as though the brain is a creature of its own, and all the parts of the body are its crutches.

All the senses and the parts of your body are evidence that a being needs to apprehend the world around it. And the brain is the faculty through which we do that.

As such, if you take substances that affect the brain, of course, your mind -state will be affected. Go pour acid into the brain-box of your car – of course the state of the car will be very badly affected. That does not make the brain-box the car, It is a tool vial which the whole vehicle functions.

Thus I make this rational contention to you: wherever a complex system exists and delivers a function or functions, that system is not the recipient in itself of the functions.

Digest this, and then disprove it if you can.

A crude example is this: car = complex system. Car does not exist to drive ITSELF around for ITS own purposes. It exists to ferry MAN around.

Again: A Computer. Complex System. Does it exist to please itself, or process information for MAN? ? ?

The brain is very much like a super computer – it is the ultimate information processor. For whom, or for what, does it process all that information? For itself?

I hope you are getting an idea of how possibly ludicrous the idea you are advancing is: That the brain does all these things to please itself!

IT IS GLARING that such systems work to support something else: namely the BEING.

https://www.nairaland.com/357796/kag-atheism-dialectics-spirituality

I am not surprised that years on, these atheists adamantly reject this very simple and obvious truth: that the brain is a tool for a being, and not a being in itself.

By the way, Mr Anony made some earth-shatteringly superb posts; and any student of logic would have seen the clear points by now therein.

OTHER EXAMPLES OF THE LORD KILLING THE SOULS OF MEN

ROMANS 11 VS 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded <<< AFTER THE FIRST FRUITS WERE SELECTED, THE LORD KILLED THE SOULS OF THE REST OF ISRAEL. TILL TODAY THEY ARE WALKING AROUND IN DARKNESS. WALKING ZOMBIES

ISAIAH 6 VS 9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. <<< LORD KILLING THE SPIRIT OF THE NON-ELECT ISRAELITES. PUTTING THEM IN DARKNESS. WALKING ZOMBIES.

THIS IS HOW SPIRITS ARE KILLED. THEY ARE SHUTDOWN. HOWEVER THEY ARE NEVER ERADICATED. THEY ARE IMMORTAL

obadiah777: TOO MANY POINTS MADE I DONT KNOW WHERE TO START LOL. ANYWAY THE BREATH OF LIFE IS A SYMBOLIC PHRASE FOR SAYING 'SPIRIT'. 'PNEUMA' 'SPIRITUS'. AND THE SOUL IS ETERNAL. WHILE THE BODY DIES AND GOES INTO THE GROUND, THE SOUL RETURNS TO GOD ( ECCLESIASTES 12 VS 7 ). HOWEVER WHILE THE SOUL AS AN ENTITY IS ETERNAL, THE SOUL CAN BE SHUTDOWN AND 'KILLED'. MEANING IT CAN BE DETACHED FROM ITS LIFE SOURCE. LIKE THERE ARE HUMANS WALKING AROUND TODAY WITH DEAD SOULS. THEIR SOULS ARE NOT LIVING. SO IN CONCLUSION, THE SOUL AS AN ENTITY IS ETERNAL HOWEVER THE SOUL CAN BE PUT IN DARKNESS ( KILLED IN HELL )


MATTHEW 10 VS 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

EZEKIEL 18 VS 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

JOHN 6 VS 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. <<< THE LORD CAN MAKE YOUR SOUL ALIVE OR HE CAN KILL IT IN DARKNESS.

Your confusion stems from the erroneous thinking that the "breath of life" or spirit is the same as soul. As I mentioned the terms are different. I addressed this in my post.

Eccl 12:7 tallies with Gen 2:7 on what makes man alive. The "breath of life" returns to God because God is the source of life - it doesn't mean "breath of life" is an independent intelligent being that survives separate from the body.

Deep Sight:

. . . . wherever a complex system exists and delivers a function or functions, that system is not the recipient in itself of the functions.

You can only have a point if you can show me that the Brain is conscious of itself as a creature called a brain, whose work is to control something called a man.

Well analyzed, Mazaje's POV should result in instant universal madness and meaninglessness. . . for it suggests that neurons for their own random purposes create an active thinking human being.

^^Classic! Let me see how he wriggles out of this.

Go back to the beginning Y'all and throw away all tradtion to the wind.

Are we talking bible here or tradition ?

Genesis 2 : 7 - And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

So simple ,and yet so confusing to most.

1. God formed MAN of the dust of the earth.


2. At this point MAN was lifeless or in a state of 'DEATH' for want of a better word. There is nowhere in Genesis, where we read that GOD added any other ingredient to lifeless MAN, it was simply dust at this point.

3. Then GOD breathed, mark the word BREATH , it did not say GOD added a spirit to MAN or a SOUL , it simply said GOD Bresathed the breath of life into lifeless MAN.

4. MAN became a living SOUL , get it pals, he ONLY became a living SOUL once this life from GOD entered HIM.


5. Then MAN was able to function intelligently as a result of the combination of this life with his brain and other parts that constitute his BODY.


Why is this so so complex , when the beginning lays out the Facts in plain speaking language.

TroGunn:

Your confusion stems from the erroneous thinking that the "breath of life" or spirit is the same as soul. As I mentioned the terms are different. I addressed this in my post.

Eccl 12:7 tallies with Gen 2:7 on what makes man alive. The "breath of life" returns to God because God is the source of life - it doesn't mean "breath of life" is an independent intelligent being that survives separate from the body.

AND YOUR CONFUSION LIES IN THINKING THAT SPIRIT IS DIFFERENT FROM SOUL. IT IS CALLED SOUL IN A LIVING BEING AND SPIRIT WHEN IT IS DETACHED FROM A LIVING BEING. HOWEVER IT IS THE SAME THING. THE BREATH OF LIFE IS 'SPIRITUS'. MEANING SPIRIT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritus

SEE YOU NEED TO STUDY THE ETYMOLOGY OF WORDS

obadiah777: AND YOUR CONFUSION LIES IN THINKING THAT SPIRIT IS DIFFERENT FROM SOUL. IT IS CALLED SOUL IN A LIVING BEING AND SPIRIT WHEN IT IS DETACHED FROM A LIVING BEING. HOWEVER IT IS THE SAME THING. THE BREATH OF LIFE IS 'SPIRITUS'. MEANING SPIRIT.

Use a Lexicon please.

spirit is also referred to as wind or breath.

Man is not a spirit, Man is a living SOUL.

God is a spirit and so are angels.

4151. pneuma pnyoo'-mah from 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare 5590.

This is at best an attempt at distortion and that is why you cannot quote out what the bible says as it is.

See:

hisblud:

[quote author=hisblud]
1. When God formed man, “Gen 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground”, was he alive or not alive then before God breath into him?

the guilty are afraid.
What bible passage contain exactly what you have posted up there? None.
You have to fixe up things to pass out you greek philosophy.

hisblud:
2. The brain, centre of intelligence, was/is it not part of the formed man apart from the breath of God?

i hope you will not tell us that the brain was already alive befor the breath of God was put into the man.

hisblud:
3. Is it not the combination of dust(formed man including his brain) and God’s breath that together form a Living soul?

The breath was not the soul neither the mould was the soul.

It was a combination of the two, the breath(spirit) and the body(mould) =soul.

^^^ the soul cannot exist in the absent of the other.

When the power of God leaves the body, then no more life and ofcouse no more soul.

hisblud:
4. When you say, Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else, does the breath of God dies along with the body?

the breath of God is God's spirit or God's power it belongs to God and as such goes back to God.

The this breath of life that was put into the body is NOT the soul but the life force that brought the mould to life(soul)

what that was put was the breath of life and what that leaves is the breath of life, the spirit of God.
Dont forget that it took the breath of life and the mould/body to have the soul.

hisblud:
5. Quoting you, “A living man is a living soul”, are you meaning “ a living body is animated by a living soul”?

^^^
that cant be since the spirit of God is what that animate the body and that was what it takes for bring the man to life.

Again, the man is the soul and as such it is something else that anima the man or the soul, or it is something else that keeps the man alive, it is the spirit of God that keeps the soul alive.

When the spirit of God goes into the mould it came to be the man Adam,
when the spirit of God goes into the mould it came to be a living soul.

So, man = soul sustain by the breath or the spirit of God.

now tell me:
where was the soul befor the breath of life was put into the man

frosbel:

Use a Lexicon please.

spirit is also referred to as wind or breath.

Man is not a spirit, Man is a living SOUL.

God is a spirit and so are angels.

4151. pneuma pnyoo'-mah from 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare 5590.

OF COURSE MAN IS NOT A SPIRIT. SPIRIT ONLY EXISTS WHEN THE MAN IS DEAD PHYSICALLY. YOU ARE RIGHT, MAN IS A LIVING SOUL. WHAT WAS YA POINT AGAIN FROSBEL ?

obadiah777: AND YOUR CONFUSION LIES IN THINKING THAT SPIRIT IS DIFFERENT FROM SOUL. IT IS CALLED SOUL IN A LIVING BEING AND SPIRIT WHEN IT IS DETACHED FROM A LIVING BEING. HOWEVER IT IS THE SAME THING. THE BREATH OF LIFE IS 'SPIRITUS'. MEANING SPIRIT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritus

SEE YOU NEED TO STUDY THE ETYMOLOGY OF WORDS

Biblically, spirit (breath of life) that makes the lifeless body a living soul (man) is not the same as soul. Read Gen 2:7 again.

obadiah777: OF COURSE MAN IS NOT A SPIRIT. SPIRIT ONLY EXISTS WHEN THE MAN IS DEAD PHYSICALLY. YOU ARE RIGHT, MAN IS A LIVING SOUL. WHAT WAS YA POINT AGAIN FROSBEL ?

lol ,

My point is that the spirit that returns to God after a MAN's death , is not a being representing the dead MAN , it is simply the gift of life that has returned back to GOD.

"and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." - Ecclesiastes 12:7

So MAN is only a SOUL because of this life that dwells within him, when the MAN dies, he becomes a BODY and no longer can be referred to as a living being or soul.

TroGunn:

Biblically, spirit (breath of life) that makes the lifeless body a living soul (man) is not the same as soul. Read Gen 2:7 again.

GENESIS 2 VS 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. <<< THIS IS WHAT THAT VERSE MEANS. THE LORD FORMED MAN. BASICALLY A PIECE OF MEAT. AND THEN THE SYMBOLIC STATEMENT COMES IN >>> 'BREATHED INTO HIS NOSTRILS THE BREATH OF LIFE' WHICH BASICALLY MEANS THE LORD PUT HIS SPIRIT >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritus IN THE SLAB OF MEAT HE CREATED. AND THE SLAB OF MEAT BECAME A LIVING SOUL. SIMPLE AND STRAIGHTFORWARD. HE PUT HIS SPIRIT IN THE MAN AND THE MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL. LETTING YOU KNOW THAT THE SPIRIT FROM GOD PLUS THE SLAB OF MEAT IS WHAT MAKES A LIVING SOUL

obadiah777: GENESIS 2 VS 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. <<< THIS IS WHAT THAT VERSE MEANS. THE LORD FORMED MAN. BASICALLY A PIECE OF MEAT. AND THEN THE SYMBOLIC STATEMENT COMES IN >>> 'BREATHED INTO HIS NOSTRILS THE BREATH OF LIFE' WHICH BASICALLY MEANS THE LORD PUT HIS SPIRIT >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritus IN THE SLAB OF MEAT HE CREATED. AND THE SLAB OF MEAT BECAME A LIVING SOUL. SIMPLE AND STRAIGHTFORWARD. HE PUT HIS SPIRIT IN THE MAN AND THE MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL. LETTING YOU KNOW THAT THE SPIRIT FROM GOD PLUS THE SLAB OF MEAT IS WHAT MAKES A LIVING SOUL

SLAB of MEAT

Speak for yourself

frosbel:

lol ,

My point is that the spirit that returns to God after a MAN's death , is not a being representing the dead MAN , it is simply the gift of life that has returned back to GOD.

"and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." - Ecclesiastes 12:7

So MAN is only a SOUL because of this life that dwells within him, when the MAN dies, he becomes a BODY and no longer can be referred to as a living being or soul.

BUT YOU DO ERR NOT KNOWING SCRIPTURES. THE BODY IS SIMPLY A PIECE OF MEAT. THE SPIRIT IS THE MAN. THE BODY IS ONLY NEEDED SO THAT THE SPIRIT CAN EXPRESS ITSELF IN A PHYSICAL FORM

JOHN 6 VS 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. <<< THE SPIRIT IS THE MAN NOT THE FLESH

frosbel:

SLAB of MEAT

Speak for yourself

Lolol.

frosbel:

SLAB of MEAT

Speak for yourself

I GUESS I STAND CORRECTED . FROSBEL IS NOT A SLAB OF MEAT. HE IS A BRONZED STATUE ADORNED WITH OPAL AND AMETHYST AND FINE ORNAMENTS

obadiah777: BUT YOU DO ERR NOT KNOWING SCRIPTURES. THE BODY IS SIMPLY A PIECE OF MEAT. THE SPIRIT IS THE MAN. THE BODY IS ONLY NEEDED SO THAT THE SPIRIT CAN EXPRESS ITSELF IN A PHYSICAL FORM

JOHN 6 VS 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. <<< THE SPIRIT IS THE MAN NOT THE FLESH

The spirit is the life from GOD, unknowingly and by quoting this verse you are simply showing us how Jesus confirmed the account of creation in Genesis.

Let's corroborate it with the following scripture from JESUS.

""Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing." - John 15:5

Without the life of GOD , either eternal for those who are saved or physical life as applicable to all MEN, we are indeed a 'DEAD BODY'.


The spirit is not a being.