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|Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by therationa(m): 3:28pm On Feb 26, 2008|
One of Jesus's founding doctrine was the doctrine of passive non-resistance to evil and violence. This is expounded in the books of Luke 6: 27 - 28 and Matthew 5: 39 - 41.
[tr][td]Luke 6: 24-31[/td][td]Matthew 5: 37-45[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]24But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. [/td]
37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [/td][/tr]
These are some of the most preposterous words attributed to Jesus. He is commanding people to love, not least their enemies. Love, the classic sense of the word, is a sentiment that is gained and not commanded. Loving ones enemies is not the route to resolving the tension that may exist between both parties. Negotiation and discussions are a better way to deal with ones enemies than the blanket expenditure of ones love.
Further, why should one NOT resist evil? Basically, he takes from an individual the legitimate right to defend himself. If a man walks into your house and takes away your books, do you also give him you clothes? If he strikes you, would you show him the other cheek? How many Christians adhere to this standard?
Here is what George Smith has to say about this doctrine;
Why? For what possible reason should one offer oneself as a sacrificial animal in this way? Such questions, however, do not apply to Jesus, because he is interested only in obedience, not in presenting rational arguments. In fact, when viewed in this context, this commands begin to make sense. We are not to judge others, Jesus says, which is merely another facet of suspending ones critical faculties. We are to tolerate injustice, we are to refrain from passing value judgements of other people -- such precepts require the obliteration of one's capacity to distinguish the good from the evil; the require the kind of intellectual and moral passiveness that generates a mentality of obedience. The man who is incapable of passing independent value judgements will be least critical when given orders. And he will be unlikely to evaluate the moral worth of the man, or the supposed god, from whence those orders come. Source: Atheism: The case Against God, George H. Smith, Page 325.
No wonder they are called "The Flock", servile little machines, at the beck and call of clerics and deities!
Are there any Christians today who follow these precepts of Jesus? If you don't, are you justified in calling yourself a Christian?
Some of my other threads
The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
Danger! Religion May Damage Your Intelligence And Your Mind If Not Your Wealth
Does Anyone Not Know What The Permian–triassic Extinction Event Is ?
What Are Spiritual Truths?
Road To Damascus Incident: Paul's Account
Noah, Kangaroos, Sloth, Polar Bear And Panda In A Wooden Boat
Resurrection Accounts In The Gospel: Reconciliation Wanted
Does Jesus Know What Causes Sin? Thank Goodness He Doesn't.
The Dreadful Plight Of Apostasy In The Bible
Is The European Union Prophesied In The Bible? Is It The Anti-christ?
Jesus And The Old Laws
What Can Be Said To Be Definitely Known About Jesus?
Origin Of Christianity And Diabolical Mimicry In Anticipation
Hell Past, Hell Present; Which Do You Prefer?
The intimate Act And Christian Teaching
Scientific Rationalism, Reason And Faith: Which Produces Systematic Knowledge?
On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus, Part 2:
On The Historical Reliability Of The Bible
When And From Where Did Jesus Ascend Into Heaven
When Was Jesus Born?
On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus [/b]13012dg
[b] Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence.
What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved?
Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written?
God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitler
Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10
What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity?
Faith-healer And Evangelist, Maurice Cerullo, Investigated
What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada?
Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma
On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2
How Is Salvation Achieved?
Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
When Was Jesus Crucified?
On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
Where Did Sin Originate?
For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
Has Atheism Got Principle? No
It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
Great Books About Non-belief
Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God?
Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
What lasting Benefits Did Jesus Bring Into The World?
The Catholic Doctrine, Original Sin And Evolution
Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
Genesis Vs Genetics
Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by therationa(m): 11:15pm On Feb 28, 2008|
Would you try and stop a burglar breaking into your home? Why? That is not what Jesus would have done!
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by Cassiel(f): 12:26am On Feb 29, 2008|
Are you like a religous scholar or something,Therationa?I admire your vast knowledge on religous issues
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by therationa(m): 10:39am On Feb 29, 2008|
I will answer with this quote taken from Gore Vidal's speech;
The great unmentionable evil at the center of our culture is monotheism. From a barbaric Bronze Age text known as the Old Testament, three anti-human religions have evolved --Judaism, Christianity, Islam. These are sky-god religions. They are, literally, patriarchal --God is the omnipotent father-- hence the loathing of women for 2,000 years in those countries afflicted by the sky-god and his earthly male delegates. The sky-god is a jealous god, of course. He requires total obedience from everyone on earth, as he is in place not for just one tribe but for all creation. Those who would reject him must be converted or killed for their own good. Ultimately, totalitarianism is the only sort of politics that can truly serve the sky-god's purpose. Any movement of a liberal nature endangers his authority and that of his delegates on earth. One God, one King, one Pope, one master in the factory, one father-leader in the family home.
; Source: http://www.isebrand.com/Gore_Vidal_Monotheism_1992.htm
The progress of human civilization is in danger if superstitions are allowed to grow unchecked. Just like the doctors and scientist study viruses and bacteria in the hope of minimizing their impact of humans, I study religion for the same reason.
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by imhotep: 11:23am On Feb 29, 2008|
Shoddy biblical scholarship - as usual
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by therationa(m): 11:26am On Feb 29, 2008|
Why don't you rebut by arguments rather than just comment sloppily. I want to see your arguments.
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by imhotep: 11:28am On Feb 29, 2008|
This level of sloppy biblical scholarship deserves no response.
Go and improve yourself before asking dumb questions.
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by therationa(m): 11:34am On Feb 29, 2008|
Well, yet again. The last refuge of the coward. Nowhere to hide now, can't even think of a rebuttal? C'mon, address the verses I mentioned above.
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by imhotep: 11:37am On Feb 29, 2008|
You have been unable to defend atheism and evoltuion.
You have also failed to lampoon the bible. You merely revealed your inner shallowness.
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by therationa(m): 11:45am On Feb 29, 2008|
When I see you thrashing about like this, I know I have got you. I have asked you to defend the subject of this post (ie Jesus doctrine of passive non-resistance to evil) yet you have said NOT a single word about it. You only want to thrash about from here to there, and there.
We are not talking about atheism and evolution on this post. There are other posts for that. Please, stay on topic.
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by LordReed(m): 2:16pm On Feb 29, 2008|
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
If this is the purpose of the dat passage why then do u condemn it? Because as u well know the sun n rain benefit both the just n unjust. Why does it not benefit only those deserving/just? U may say it can't make value judgements but u as a human who makes value judgements still choose to forgive do u not or do always get ur revenge/justice on those who wrong u?
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by tpaine: 11:20am On Mar 02, 2008|
Interestingly, there's not been a single rebauttal of therationa's arguments on this thread. Wonder why!
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by TheSly: 11:48am On Mar 02, 2008|
because no matter what u say or prove,he will never stop believing that ''he is a descendant of monkey or gorillaz''
So why wasting my time? i'v got important things to do rather than to waste time here. .
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by tpaine: 12:28pm On Mar 02, 2008|
But this thread is not about ''he is a descendant of monkey or gorillaz'' ie evolution. It is about Jesus's view on self-defense, a far cry from evolution - so I think it deserve a serious rebuttal.
Incidentally, I do not think therationa's idea of evolution is ''he is a descendant of monkey or gorillaz''. If I remember my biology correctly, I think evolution simply says humans and apes and primates have a common ancestor; not that humans are descended from apes. - a major difference.
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by LordReed(m): 8:16am On Mar 03, 2008|
I asked therationa a question he has not answered.
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by ppanther(m): 2:10pm On Mar 07, 2008|
Permit me to say here that the issue
of rebutting your arguments is irrelevant.
Why? You ask.
Analogy: imagine trying to interpret a
Yoruba poem with Igbo, just because a few
words in Yoruba SOUND LIKE Igbo.
Let me explain:
You said: "Love, is a sentiment"
Well, you'll only have to read the Bible to
find out the Bible's OWN definition of
love. Not exactly your average
dictionary definition of love, the kind
that you are avoiding a "blanket expenditure"
"Suspending critical faculties"? Let me tell you something
about suspending critical faculties.
Let's say you are sick. For you to be treated by a
doctor, you have to "suspend your critical faculties"
and trust that this fellow in white robes actually knows
a bit more than you about how your body operates.
Does that make you a fool? Does that mean you
are brainless, since you are supposed to know
enough about yourself to treat yourself?
It's only enlightened self-interest to admit that
there are some things beyond you and that
you need HELP. That is even why you read a
lot of material from folks better versed in atheism
Finally, the Bible is the Word of GOD! Granted, very bold claim.
To you, maybe very irrational claim, afterall there are
volumes of "inspired" documents out there.
Why do I want to stress this point? Because the Bible
is its own interpreter. It doesn't pander to anybody's
pet ideas about "injustice", "moral worth of man", "rational
How would our world be if the law of gravity was so "liberal"
as to know the right time to operate and when to ease
off a bit? How comforting that some things are FIXED,
granting a certain stability and peace of mind!
P.S. Just a thought; could you really have a fruitful
negotiation/discussion without "refrain[ing] from
passing value judgment [on] other people"?
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by huxley(m): 3:40pm On Jul 30, 2008|
On this one of my earlier threads (in the now infamous pseudonym therationa) I broached the morally repugnant subject of non-resistance against evil, one of Jesus's core messages. How many Christians live their lives by this standard?
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by huxley(m): 10:10am On Aug 05, 2008|
Is it right to curse someone who steals from you?
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by huxley(m): 9:27am On Oct 20, 2008|
Is George Bush right to go after the Taliban?
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by mazaje(m): 9:39am On Oct 20, 2008|
I doubt if george bush believes in christainity. . . he is just using it as a cover up to futher his agenda. . . the religious right in america is clearly what is wrong with religion today . . . . kill the enemy is what they advocate for most of the time . . . . its hard to believe that people like newt gingrich, rudy guliani, mitt romney, rush limburg, sean hannity, karl rove, vice president cheiney, and donald rumsfield believe in the religion the profess to adhere to. . . . . .
|Re: Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil by Merdeka: 7:08am On Mar 07, 2009|
You seem to have nailed the issue therationa! You've actually stumbled onto the very reason Jesus wound up being tortured to death - the fact that his entire purpose rotated around love. The thing is that Jesus was very specific about what love actually is, whereas you've adopted the bland Disney version which is nothing but a caricature of Jesus' idea. According to the Bible, "God is Love" - not "God is loving", a description of him that we can interpret based on our own philosophy of what love is. The idea is that love is not a concept but a person - our actions only qualify as love if they resemble his.
In short, Jesus' teaching on love amounts to "hate absorbed is hate defeated". He was not advocating standing there waiting for bad men to hit you, he was talking about storming the enemies' territory to bring care for the broken, understanding for the hate-filled and forgiveness for the hopelessly messed up. That sort of thing makes people want to hurt you; that's why he wants his people to turn the other cheek.
You look at His teaching in the same way as the people did that heard him - impractical idealism. Why should they love the occupying force of the Roman army when they should be fighting them and achieving political freedom? Because Jesus was not interested in a political kingdom but in "the Kingdom of Heaven" - the character of God that "speaks up for those who cannot speak for themselves". People that don't value their own lives or possessions as much as they value the welfare of even their worst enemies. You're right - it's not a way to get rich, but Jesus suggested that there were even more important things than money and personal health. Important enough that you would be prepared to lose everything standing up for God's big three priorities justice, mercy & faithfulness.
It's not popular - Israel has always rejected it. You see them still with more of an interest in political freedom than in love; how well is that working out for them? I'm not singling them out - Jesus' teaching is no more popular with "Christians" either. As he said "the road is narrow and few travel on it."
If you want to know what Jesus' love looks like, look at what he did, look at people that tried to live it out like the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King. Ghandi thought it was the answer to the world's problems even though he was a Hindu. If you're interested, I have some thoughts on it at http://bloodwoodtree.org/war/.
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