The moral man came to the
judgment,
but self righteous rags would not
do;
the men who had crucified Jesus
had passed off as moral men, too;
the soul that had put off salvation,
“Not tonight; I’ll get saved by and
by,
no time now to think of religion!”
at last they had found time to die.
Refrain
And O, what a weeping and
wailing,
as the lost were told of their
fate;
they cried for the rocks and the
mountains,
they prayed, but their prayer
was too late

Logicboy03: 2012 was a landmark year on Nairaland religion section where atheists really came out of the woodwork.

Many religious people got to know atheists very well and so, I want to know what the religious people now think about atheists?

ignorant op who thinks life revolves around him. atheism has been popular and perhaps more sanely expressed on the forum since almost its inception. I've known atheists very well since like forever. There is no change, compare psalm 14, no change.

Image123: The moral man came to the
judgment,
but self righteous rags would not
do;
the men who had crucified Jesus
had passed off as moral men, too;
the soul that had put off salvation,
“Not tonight; I’ll get saved by and
by,
no time now to think of religion!”
at last they had found time to die.
Refrain
And O, what a weeping and
wailing,
as the lost were told of their
fate;
they cried for the rocks and the
mountains,
they prayed, but their prayer
was too late

Cool story

Affiliated:

Cool story

Better than Twilight...

Affiliated:

Cool story

it's actually a song my dear. Observe the moral of the song.

Affiliated:

Objective: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations

Reality: the quality or state of being real

The views on right and wrong differ between individuals. I'm sure some of the things that are right to me are wrong to you for example I see nothing wrong in homosexual people's orientation but I'm sure homosexuality would be wrong to you.
So how can morality be an objective reality? To answer your question "NO" and it will never be

It is a reality(fact) that humans are moral beings, all humans regardless of their religious/spiritual affiliation possess something called conscience. It is also a reality that certain human behaviours are generally seen as right and wrong by fellow humans regardless the feelings or thoughts of the person responsible for the act.
Robbery and theft are universally wrong no matter how you personally feel about it. You can't rapé a two year old girl because you feel its right and hope its right. Its damn wrong in all societies. That's a reality


You can't tell me that there's no such thing as right or wrong. If it were so, we would cease to exist or we'll be living in a state of anarchy.

J12:

It is a reality(fact) that humans are moral beings, all humans regardless of their religious/spiritual affiliation possess something called conscience. It is also a reality that certain human behaviours are generally seen as right and wrong by fellow humans regardless the feelings or thoughts of the person responsible for the act.
Robbery and theft are universally wrong no matter how you personally feel about it. You can't rapé a two year old girl because you feel its right and hope its right. Its damn wrong in all societies. That's a reality


You can't tell me that there's no such thing as right or wrong. If it were so, we would cease to exist or we'll be living in a state of anarchy.

I agree with almost all of the above. If you say Morality is an objective reality in the sense that all humans must be moral then I can't argue with you
If however you say that Morality is an objective reality in the sense that all humans must possess the same moral values then that's just wrong.

Humans have been conditioned to accept certain acts as wrong over many years. If we were conditioned to accept the opposite as wrong then that's how it would be. But even then there are still some minority who we classify as evil that weren't conditioned or the conditioning didn't work on.

I know there's right and wrong but I'm saying right and wrong is subjective

Image123:
it's actually a song my dear. Observe the moral of the song.

OK. Cool song story... Better than Billie Jean

this thread is really funny. i am a christian, no apologies. But over the last few months, if nairaland religious threads would be my scale used to weigh and maybe answer the question posed by the OP i'd say no. When i think about why atheists spend so much time arguing back and forth with christians and ever so often say they feel its their duty to liberate christians from the so-called "enslavement" of religion. I look at how often insults are traded, anger bubbling up and down like a volcano and i ask seriously? they think they can actually say something to make me wanna be like them? again? so angry, bragging about knowledge with nothing that can actually change a life in the real world and not on some threads? SO NO. MORALLY THEY MAY BE BETTER THAN HYPOCRITICAL 'CHRISTIANS' BUT NOT TRUE CHRISTIANS. cant speak for other religions

Affiliated:

I agree with almost all of the above. If you say Morality is an objective reality in the sense that all humans must be moral then I can't argue with you
If however you say that Morality is an objective reality in the sense that all humans must possess the same moral values then that's just wrong.

Humans have been conditioned to accept certain acts as wrong over many years. If we were conditioned to accept the opposite as wrong then that's how it would be. But even then there are still some minority who we classify as evil that weren't conditioned or the conditioning didn't work on.

I know there's right and wrong but I'm saying right and wrong is subjective

All humans cannot possess the same moral values.

Its impossible since most human values are relative. However, some moral values have stood for ages and they're likely to remain that way till infinity. These are absolute moral values that cut across all human societies and cultures.

In other words, Some moral values are subjective, some aren't.

J12:

All humans cannot possess the same moral values.

Its impossible since most human values are relative. However, some moral values have stood for ages and they're likely to remain that way till infinity. These are absolute moral values that cut across all human societies and cultures.

In other words, Some moral values are subjective, some aren't.

OK. examples of an absolute moral vice is murder according to you. But do you think all societies in all times viewed murder as something wrong?

What is the atheist frame of reference for morality? This a the most pertinent question since the comparison is between the atheist and the religious (who already have an establish frame of reference).

Image123:
ignorant op who thinks life revolves around him. atheism has been popular and perhaps more sanely expressed on the forum since almost its inception. I've known atheists very well since like forever. There is no change, compare psalm 14, no change.

Why do you hate me? Seriously? remain small for you, Enigma and Deepsight to carry cane and flog me!


Anyways, does psalm 14;1 apply to Seun and Bill gates?

Lord_Reed: What is the atheist frame of reference for morality? This a the most pertinent question since the comparison is between the atheist and the religious (who already have an establish frame of reference).

The christian and muslim have a flawed frame of morality in their sexist and slave-loving holy books.


Atheists have nothing but reasoning and philosophy to fall back to

Logicboy03:

Why do you hate me?

Anyways, does psalm 14;1 apply to Seun and Bill gates?

i love you, at least more than i love tbj. What do you think of psalm 14, does it apply to you?

Logicboy03:

The christian and muslim have a flawed frame of morality in their sexist and slave-loving holy books.


Atheists have nothing but reasoning and philosophy to fall back to

So on what basis is there going to a comparison since you say they are flawed? By your reasoning atheists are superior case closed, go home and celebrate.

Affiliated:

OK. examples of an absolute moral vice is murder according to you. But do you think all societies in all times viewed murder as something wrong?

Yes. Prove me wrong

J12:

Yes. Prove me wrong

So what was human sacrifice? Or burying slaves with kings?

J12:

Yes. Prove me wrong

Well I don't have the records of all society at all times but I'll make the best of the information available to me.

First of all murder is : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.

So we need to differentiate killing and murder. I could say murder is unlawful killing and everyone knows laws are subjective. Killing in and of itself isn't immoral.

Lord Reed:

So what was human sacrifice? Or burying slaves with kings?

Thank you for your input but these killings fall withing the laws so it isn't murder per se.

Killing people is not per se immoral. It is deemed immoral in certain circumstances, in which it is called "murder". when it is not considered to be immoral, It's called something different, such as "justified homicide".

So murder is immoral because it is a term used specifically to describe immoral acts. I.e. It's simply semantics.

In regards to war, killing people is never wrong... soldiers have no problem signing up to kill people, and neither does the country that contracts them, yet the moment that that same soldier comes home and shoots someone because s/he cut him off on the freeway, the killing is then wrong.

You can also argue that murder is neither right or wrong-it just is. Whether or not it is immoral is a contention amongst human beings. You'd never see two tigers sitting up in a jungle contemplating whether or not they should eat a zebra because it's "wrong" to kill.


The summary of my post is that if you want to view murder strictly as semantics then it is always wrong because murder which is the name of immoral killings, changes with the dictates of the subjective law. What's murder today might not be murder tomorrow.

However if you look at it as killing someone then even now killing people can be moral

Image123:
i love you, at least more than i love tbj. What do you think of psalm 14, does it apply to you?

I asked yuou a question.....does psalm 14 apply to Bill Gates and Seun?

Lord_Reed:

So on what basis is there going to a comparison since you say they are flawed? By your reasoning atheists are superior case closed, go home and celebrate.

Atheists arent superior. All an atheist has is reason and logic to guide for morality. While it is there, it doesnt mean the atheists will use it.


As for the christians, the samrt ones dont follow the illogical parts of their holy books (slaves and sexism).

Logicboy03:


Atheists arent superior. All an atheist has is reason and logic to guide for morality. While it is there, it doesnt mean the atheists will use it.


As for the christians, the samrt ones dont follow the illogical parts of their holy books (slaves and sexism).

You still haven't answered the question of what frame of reference the comparison will be judged on.

Lord_Reed:

You still haven't answered the question of what frame of reference the comparison will be judged on.

If something is illogical and how much harm it causes. Morality starts from harm and survival.


So many christians discriminating against gay people while mosts atheist being more tolerant to them is a clear distinction between reasoning and using flawed holy books.

Discrimination because of ones sexuality causes unnecessary harm.

Logicboy03:


If something is illogical and how much harm it causes. Morality starts from harm and survival.


So many christians discriminating against gay people while mosts atheist being more tolerant to them is a clear distinction between reasoning and using flawed holy books.

Discrimination because of ones sexuality causes unnecessary harm.

And if I told you homosexuality harms the survival chances of the human race what then? As you can see without a proper frame of reference your question can not be sufficiently answered. What you are doing is simply providing an excuse to bash religion. You are not objectively sizing up the issue of morality.

Lord_Reed:

And if I told you homosexuality harms the survival chances of the human race what then? As you can see without a proper frame of reference your question can not be sufficiently answered. What you are doing is simply providing an excuse to bash religion. You are not objectively sizing up the issue of morality.

False. The bold is false.


Sorry, I dont base my morality on false statements.


Try again

Lord_Reed:

So what was human sacrifice? Or burying slaves with kings?

Doesn't mean they aren't wrong and besides, you can't classify those as murders

Logicboy03:



False. The bold is false.


Sorry, I dont base my morality on false statements.


Try again

Homosexual relationships do not produce offspring, without offspring how is the human race suppose to survive?

And you still are sidestepping the question of a frame of reference.

Logicboy03:

I asked yuou a question.....does psalm 14 apply to Bill Gates and Seun?

And i gave an answer. i love you, and does psalm 14 apply to you?

Image123:
And i gave an answer. i love you, and does psalm 14 apply to you?

Go and sleep. You confuse a question with an answer.


Either that, or you are playing foolish

Lord_Reed:

Homosexual relationships do not produce offspring, without offspring how is the human race suppose to survive?

And you still are sidestepping the question of a frame of reference.

Neither do barren couples. I dont see you complaining that barren couples are harmful to the human race.


Think before you talk. There have been gay people right from time and even the holy books acknowledge that. Yet, we reached 7 billions from thousands. Try again

J12:

Doesn't mean they aren't wrong and besides, you can't classify those as murders

In other words as long as a society deems a deed lawful onlookers whether contemporary or no are not permitted to faulty their morality?

Logicboy03:



Neither do barren couples. I dont see you complaining that barren couples are harmful to the human race.


Think before you talk. There have been gay people right from time and even the holy books acknowledge that. Yet, we reached 7 billions from thousands. Try again

Look who's talking about thinking. Did you think before you started this topic? You came here to bash religion under the guise of intelligent discourse and when faced with a simple fundamental question your brain can only devise ways to sidestep the question.

Answer the simple question and stop devising dodges. Homosexuality is not the question.

Edit: If in your reasoning having a problem with conception is akin to homosexuality, I fear for your intellect.