It was good in short term but very bad in long term.

those are good points about political stability and having a federation of states.
but I'm not sure about these two points:

Only institutions like the armed forces, foreign policy, judiciary, and legislature should be supported at the center.
Economy, Commerce, Industry, foreign investment, works, science, technology, education, even civil policing, all should be regionalized.

Is there an example of a successful system like this?
I feel that the center will be very weak/forced. Might as well break the nation into three different countries.

Finally, stop paying public officers, or making public service some form of titular office. Make military service and public office a required duty, similar to jury duty in some parts of the world. Everybody should participate in some form of governance, which will vary according to your level of education. For example, after high school, compulsory military service. After university, compulsory public service, whether local government, or state, or even federal level. This I think will influence the orientation of Nigerians to a large extent, and give them a sense of belonging.

I think NYSC is enough. Other than that, volunteer service should remain what it is. volunteer.
I don't think citizens (in any country for that matter) will respond favorably to being forced into uncompensated labor.

millitary service and public office can never be compared to jury duty.
jury duty is nothing. The closest equivalent I can think of is environmental sanitation day. except people on jury duty actually get paid some compensation! and jury duty is once in a decade or so as compared to once every month for sanitation day in Nigeria.

^^
Well, eight of the world's largest countries are governed as federations, with varying degrees of autonomy. The US, Switzerland, Pakistan, Germany, Australia, The United Arab Emirates, are regarded as federations. In fact, even Nigeria is in actuality a federation, with an imposed unitary approach to governance, brought on by the military.
The UAE is a very good example. The various emirates were standalone, up till the late 60s, when Sheikh Zayed of Abu Dhabi invited the other rulers to form a federation. In the UAE, every form of administrative and civil governance is done at the level of each respective emirate, while foreign policy, military capability, are at the centre. Interestingly, there are no elections in the UAE, as leadership is hereditary. But its a stable state nonetheless.

Regarding the issue of volunteer service, I'd still say that some form of compulsory service beyond NYSC is required. NYSC on its own is weak and expensive to manage. After all the draft was introduced in the US at some point during the First World war. Until Nigeria attains some level of maturity, some compulsory form of service to the nation would be helpful.

niyimat

Five years later,some people from another area came and met your place still disorganized but you already had your answer the 'robbers'. Thirty years after some small small children came and you still repeated the same ugly scenario. Forty years later, a boy that was born 2 years ago came and asked 'uncle why is your apartment so disorganized?,and you said 'oh it was forty years ago some robbers came and burgled my home'. Now tell me who is to blame for this disorganized state after 50yrs?.

@niyimat

The "uncle" is behaving like a typical "tenant or Nigerian, perhaps he lacks any sense of belonging or ownership of the said property/land. Is it any different from how a lot of so called 'Nigerians' behave? Do they have any genuine affinity and love towards their environment, neighbours, and street, let alone country? Some internet Nigerians may claim to be more 'enlightened' but those who actually exercise power behave exactly like disinterested [/b]and [b]disloyal 'tenant' or 'uncle' hence they loot and export their loot offshore not even to their villages except for the odd house or two . The land use Act or law of Nigeria does not engender ownership or sense of belonging with the attendant 'foreignness' of most so called Nigerians outside of their immediate ethnic domain . Development does not happen in an atmosphere of 'innate' sense of insecurity. The 'Uncle' may be right in his 'hopelessness' or worse, so does not have the compelling need to reorganise or 'improve' one's situation or environment. Is it any wonder 'slums' happen? It's not just material 'poverty' but 'psychic' dislocation happening to the 'victim'. It's deeper than what meets the 'eye' of the observer. The Nigerian perceived 'nationalism' begin and end on the 'football' pitch when they are winning or there are some booty/loot to share amongst the ruling elite. Even a case of 'poor pass becomes acceptable for ambassadorial position. In short a person or society without high expectation for self, where mediocrity is entrenched and acceptable, that household or society will be doomed hence after fifty years we are having this kind of conversation. It's as if we are in a 'marriage of convenience' full of all manner of subterfuge and disloyalty to self and 'society' or 'country'.In an environment such as ours, it's a miracle that we are still a 'country' because we have never really had any serious national conversation about our assumed 'union', 'unity', 'nation' and 'citizenship' Interestingly, majority of our so called ruling elite do not have faith in the 'country' hence they take pride in owning a 'foreign' passport and visa. You put your money where you have faith in .

Yes Nigeria works as a federation. but the goal should be to work toward more unity/ integration because to me, that's the best and is more foolproof against secession. Nigeria already has a weak center so there's no point in weakening the central government any further.

Regarding the issue of volunteer service, I'd still say that some form of compulsory service beyond NYSC is required. NYSC on its own is weak and expensive to manage. After all the draft was introduced in the US at some point during the First World war. Until Nigeria attains some level of maturity, some compulsory form of service to the nation would be helpful.

how do you mean by level of maturity?
I don't think i'm understanding your idea of compulsory, un-paid public service. can you give examples?  
isn't it logical that it will be exponentially more expensive to manage than NYSC?

The US ended forced military draft after the disaster of Vietnam war in the 70s.

Jenifa_:

Yes Nigeria works as a federation. but the goal should be to work toward more unity/ integration because to me, that's the best and is more foolproof against secession. Nigeria already has a weak center so there's no point in weakening the central government any further.

Pretend that oil revenue were $0. Then why would anyone be opposed to dividing the country? How wouldn't this leave everyone better off?

Anyway, just wanted to point out to you that federalism and unity/integration are antithetical.

The British for the most part designed Nigeria properly. . . 3 largely independent states. A centralist government makes no sense for a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural country like naija. Only reason we do things as we do now is because of oil money.

cheikh:

niyimat
@niyimat

The "uncle" is behaving like a typical "tenant or Nigerian, perhaps he lacks any sense of belonging or ownership of the said property/land. Is it any different from how a lot of so called 'Nigerians' behave? Do they have any genuine affinity and love towards their environment, neighbours, and street, let alone country? Some internet Nigerians may claim to be more 'enlightened' but those who actually exercise power behave exactly like disinterested [/b]and [b]disloyal 'tenant' or 'uncle' hence they loot and export their loot offshore not even to their villages except for the odd house or two .

The land use Act or law of Nigeria does not engender ownership or sense of belonging with the attendant 'foreignness' of most so called Nigerians outside of their immediate ethnic domain . Development does not happen in an atmosphere of 'innate' sense of insecurity. The 'Uncle' may be right in his 'hopelessness' or worse, so does not have the compelling need to reorganise or 'improve' one's situation or environment. Is it any wonder 'slums' happen? It's not just material 'poverty' but 'psychic' dislocation happening to the 'victim'. It's deeper than what meets the 'eye' of the observer.

The Nigerian perceived 'nationalism' begin and end on the 'football' pitch when they are winning or there are some booty/loot to share amongst the ruling elite. Even a case of 'poor pass becomes acceptable for ambassadorial position. In short a person or society without high expectation for self, where mediocrity is entrenched and acceptable, that household or society will be doomed hence after fifty years we are having this kind of conversation. It's as if we are in a 'marriage of convenience' full of all manner of subterfuge and disloyalty to self and 'society' or 'country'.

In an environment such as ours, it's a miracle that we are still a 'country' because we have never really had any serious national conversation about our assumed 'union', 'unity', 'nation' and 'citizenship' Interestingly, majority of our so called ruling elite do not have faith in the 'country' hence they take pride in owning a 'foreign' passport and visa. You put your money where you have faith in .

Another brilliant post by my bro! You make it easier so some of us don't have to keep repeating ourselves. Well said!

Kilode?!
Another brilliant post by my bro! You make it easier so some of us don't have to keep repeating ourselves. Well said!

@Kilode?!

Thanks my bro You flatter me and make me believe the hype How do you do? Long time I've not come across you here? What's up?

^^ I've been around bro. Just on other threads. It's not easy to keep preaching those broad fundamental messages. But we have to keep at it for the sake of out people.

well done.

ekt_bear:

Pretend that oil revenue were $0. Then why would anyone be opposed to dividing the country? How wouldn't this leave everyone better off?

Anyway, just wanted to point out to you that federalism and unity/integration are antithetical.

The British for the most part designed Nigeria properly. . . 3 largely independent states. A centralist government makes no sense for a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural country like naija. Only reason we do things as we do now is because of oil money.

I don't think federalism and unity are antithetical. there are varying levels of federalism like ajanlekoko already pointed out.

ex. the US is a federalist state and in fact, the central govt was strengthened more in the decades after their civil war of secession between the north and south.

when you give too much power to regions/states and too little to the central govt, the the chance of the country breaking up is very high because each region will want to do its own thing at the expense of the other regions.
Nigeria is already weak as it is so no need to weaken the central govt further unless you are for secession.

you can have federalism with a relatively strong central govt. I definitely don't want Nigeria falling apart so I think the central govt should maintain some control over the economy and foreign investment.

by the way, what do you guys think of Osun state governor's OYES program?
It's a volunteer program for youth. 150k people registered for only 20k available spots!
I think sometimes we underestimate how much Nigerians are willing to participate in active citizenship. They are probably just looking for a leader/ form of direction. 

what i'm hoping for is for the president to build a good transportation system through all three regions in order  to facilitate communication and exchange of goods and ideas. I think this is the key to integrating+uniting the three regions of the country. over time our differences will become more and more blurred.

Jenifa_:

I don't think federalism and unity are antithetical. there are varying levels of federalism like ajanlekoko already pointed out.

Federalism and centralized gov't certainly are.

ex. the US is a federalist state and in fact, the central govt was strengthened more in the decades after their civil war of secession between the north and south.

I'm not sure that this is accurate? Federal gov't is very strong due to certain laws passed/institituions created, but the US States are FAR more independent than the Nigerian ones.

Right now Nigeria is a fake federalism.

when you give too much power to regions/states and too little to the central govt, the the chance of the country breaking up is very high because each region will want to do its own thing at the expense of the other regions.
Nigeria is already weak as it is so no need to weaken the central govt further unless you are for secession.

I don't think secession is a bad idea. I think if you thought about what would happen if naija didn't have any oil, you will agree.

Jenifa

what i'm hoping for is for the president to build a good transportation system through all three regions in order to facilitate communication and exchange of goods and ideas. I think this is the key to integrating+uniting the three regions of the country. over time our differences will become more and more blurred.

@Jenifa
There are fairly good transportation system existing in Nigeria relative to other African countries. It's not perfect by no stretch of the imagination. The exchange of goods and services already exist without the government. Businesses already are venturing out. I'll wish for the government to decentralise by transferring some large government departments out of Abuja to different parts of the country. That action in itself will force Nigerians from different parts of the country to move about and partake of other cultures and perhaps help expand the economy beyond the city centres and what we have now.

^-- I strongly disagree.

It costs more to transport a container from Lagos to Abuja than from China to Lagos. If that doesn't reflect on how poor the transportation system in this country is, I dunno what does. As I've said earlier. . . in a certain sense, this means that Lagos is closer to China (and the rest of the world) than it is to Abuja.

Transportation in this country might be good by African standards, but that isn't good enough.

Regarding your latter point. . . Africa (and the rest of the developing world) as a whole is urbanizing. Urbanization is not a bad thing. And it doesn't make much sense to fight it.

Kilode?!

^^ I've been around bro. Just on other threads. It's not easy to keep preaching those broad fundamental messages. But we have to keep at it for the sake of out people.
well done.

@Kilode?!

Thank you Bro Well, what else can we do? It's pretty difficult and interesting. Our forebears have done their bit.

Which other interesting treads are out there? I am not too good at exploring/navigating Nairaland etc. Perhaps I am stuck at the Politics/Economics  and Foreign Affairs sections. I enjoy reading some interesting opinions at times outlandish and funny too. Nigeria is Great indeed. . Sense of humour is very important hence I enjoy reading some funny comments. Do you have any sections/treads to recommend to me?

ekt_bear:

^-- I strongly disagree.

It costs more to transport a container from Lagos to Abuja than from China to Lagos. If that doesn't reflect on how poor the transportation system in this country is, I dunno what does. As I've said earlier. . . in a certain sense, this means that Lagos is closer to China (and the rest of the world) than it is to Abuja.

Transportation in this country might be good by African standards, but that isn't good enough.

Regarding your latter point. . . Africa (and the rest of the developing world) as a whole is urbanizing. Urbanization is not a bad thing. And it doesn't make much sense to fight it.

Strong exaggeration there. It definitely does not cost more to transport a container from Lagos to Abuja.
Isn't a large percentage of the haulage in the United States done by road?

^--

"The blue line goes to Badagry [west of Lagos]. It just makes sense to take that on to Togo and to Ghana. It will create trade and move people and also goods across west Africa. It probably sounds ludicrous, it might not even work, but we need to think about expanding in these ways.

[size=15pt]"I understand it costs more money to take a container from Lagos to Abuja [the Nigerian capital] than it does to ship one from China to Lagos. Unbelievable. Rail, hopefully, will change a lot of that."[/size]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/14/lagos-railway-change-lives-nigeria

I'm not sure what fraction of transport in the US is done via road versus rail, water, etc.

Road networks in the US are obviously far superior to those in naija, greatly reducing costs. I'd imagine you'd want to transport a container via rail though than by road.

cheikh:

Kilode?!
@Kilode?!

Thank you Bro Well, what else can we do? It's pretty difficult and interesting. Our forebears have done their bit.

Which other interesting treads are out there? I am not too good at exploring/navigating Nairaland etc. Perhaps I am stuck at the Politics/Economics  and Foreign Affairs sections. I enjoy reading some interesting opinions at times outlandish and funny too. Nigeria is Great indeed. . Sense of humour is very important hence I enjoy reading some funny comments. Do you have any sections/treads to recommend to me?

I spend most of my NL time in this section also. The jokes section if funny if you like that. I think the Romance section is funnier though

But for me, it's Politics/Foreign Affairs/Culture/Sports on NL

ekt bear

It costs more to transport a container from Lagos to Abuja than from China to Lagos. If that doesn't reflect on how poor the transportation system in this country is, I dunno what does. As I've said earlier. . . in a certain sense, this means that Lagos is closer to China (and the rest of the world) than it is to Abuja.

Transportation in this country might be good by African standards, but that isn't good enough.

Regarding your latter point. . . Africa (and the rest of the developing world) as a whole is urbanizing. Urbanization is not a bad thing. And it doesn't make much sense to fight it.

@ekt bear

I acknowledge that our transportation system is not perfect let alone good but it does not mean that the costs have to be outlandish. The high costs of transporting a container from Lagos to Abuja is because of the inherent 'Naija' Egunje factor not 'normal' costs. Nigeria economic scene is 'abnormal' and does not usually follow the usual 'economic' norms and laws. You'll be surprised to know as I was informed by a good friend(Oyinbo) that somethings are cheaper in Onitsha and Nnewi than Lagos and Port Harcourt yet the later places are sea ports of entry. How do you explain that? I have also met some business men from Kinshasa(DRC) who regularly do business from those places and I begin to wonder what is wrong with the 'normal' laws of economics in the rest of the world. Nigeria is indeed a funny place to do business Only true 'economic cowboys' do business and survive it the Naija way. You have to learn a whole new 'economics' lessons besides certain fundamentals that are universal. That' s what makes Nigeria unique and very profitable for entrepreneurial renegades
Urbanisation may be increasing all around the world but is it really desirable and ok? Is it not as a result of bad planning, skewed economic development(Nigeria/colonial)?etc, I think we can do better with active future oriented planning/projections. Presently, we are not doing that like other places in the world e.g. Curitiba(Brazil), most Australian cities, Casablanca(Morocco) etc,  When I say de-centralise, I am actually envisaging a scenario where the large parastatals like NPA can be broken up between Lagos, Warri, Sapele, Calabar and some inland ports like Lokoja and Makurdi. Immigration and Customs & Excise can be broken up into small units and away from Abuja and Lagos to perhaps Ondo and Taraba states etc. It relieves unnecessary pressure on already congested colonially inspired cities. Our banks will have to think creatively and proactively too. Presently, they are lazy and engaging in mimicry and nothing inspiring or original for a developing environment like Nigeria. There are loads of reasons I am not pro heartless and soulless urbanisation. I know that the developing world has been caught in "urbanisation" drive, but we can do something before it actually descends like Sao Paolo(Brazil),Manila(Philipines) and Cairo(Egypt), Kingston(Jamaica). Believe me it's terrible for the majority of the inhabitants of such cities.

Kilode?!

I spend most of my NL time in this section also. The jokes section if funny if you like that. I think the Romance section is funnier though
But for me, it's Politics/Foreign Affairs/Culture/Sports on NL

@Kilode?!

Oh thanks Bro I'll definitely go to the Romance section, I could do with some rib cracking laughs and Culture too.

ekt_bear:


I'm not sure that this is accurate? Federal gov't is very strong due to certain laws passed/institituions created, but the US States are FAR more independent than the Nigerian ones.

Right now Nigeria is a fake federalism.
I don't think secession is a bad idea. I think if you thought about what would happen if naija didn't have any oil, you will agree.

well my point was that Nigeria shouldn't adopt this kind of federalism quoted below because we are still very fragile.
there are varying levels of federalism. i.e the north was allowed to go ahead with their sharia laws. but letting each region take full control over their economy,commerce etc will be calling for trouble.

and the US fed govt does take power away from the state "when/as necessary." ie the "necessary and proper" clause in order to protect the country. because unity of the country is the ultimate goal. although US is a federalist country.

I'm definitely not for secession. If Nigeria didn't have oil, I still wouldn't support secession.

Only institutions like the armed forces, foreign policy, judiciary, and legislature should be supported at the center.
Economy, Commerce, Industry, foreign investment, works, science, technology, education, even civil policing, all should be regionalized.

Jenifa_:

If Nigeria didn't have oil, I still wouldn't support secession.

What are your reasons for saying this? Aren't people better off managing their own affairs?

What is the basis for Nigerian unity other than oil?

And with your sort of reasoning, why shouldn't all of West Africa be one country? 

The real problem I have with your philosophy is that most of the components of Nigeria are being stifled right now. Nigeria is a country where the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. So we'll continue to bumble along together indefinitely, rather than achieving great heights separately.

cheikh:

Jenifa
@Jenifa
There are fairly good transportation system existing in Nigeria relative to other African countries. It's not perfect by no stretch of the imagination. The exchange of goods and services already exist without the government. Businesses already are venturing out. I'll wish for the government to decentralise by transferring some large government departments out of Abuja to different parts of the country. That action in itself will force Nigerians from different parts of the country to move about and partake of other cultures and perhaps help expand the economy beyond the city centres and what we have now.

I just wish the govt could do something/ come up with measures to integrate the country better. You seem to know more about the system than I do and I have to agree with you that it partially has to do with location of cities like you pointed out. cities are generally the central points or "melting pots"

ex. people living in southern Nigeria are so disconnected from the north( and vice versa) in so many ways. I was embarrassed to meet people from Niger and Chad that ask me about hausa movie stars and I didn't even know there was a booming movie industry up there in my own country. I mean I sort of knew but it was just a wow moment for me how clueless I am about people in my own country. we just aren't connected enough I guess. take nairaland for example. it's mostly representative of  just 50% or southern half of the country.

I know the issue is a lot more complicated but i'm sure there are things to be done to facilitate integration.

This kind of goes back to ajanlekoko's point about turning "colonial legacies" around and making it our own. I guess I agree with him on more points than I had realized.

ekt_bear:

What are your reasons for saying this? Aren't people better off managing their own affairs?

What is the basis for Nigerian unity other than oil?

And with your sort of reasoning, why shouldn't all of West Africa be one country? 

The real problem I have with your philosophy is that most of the components of Nigeria are being stifled right now. Nigeria is a country where the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. So we'll continue to bumble along together indefinitely, rather than achieving great heights separately.

1.we live in a very globalized world nowadays and I feel that that a united Nigeria gives us a better edge than three little powerless countries. ex. most powerful countries today are US, China. Even Europe formed a union for a reason.
2. we've done this for 50yrs+ and starting over will be more difficult than you think. It's easier to improve a system than overhaul it
3.who says the ijebus won't rise up against the ifes etc. or minor groups within igbo land won't start warring.

Even if all of West African were to become one country, it would take at least a century or close to that to happen. going back to point #2.
it's not just about politics and technical work. a lot of it is also personal and psychological. at least for me part of my identity is being a Nigerian and I def. don't want to lose that.


for the answer to your question about the basis of Nigerian unity, look around you to other african countries. how many besides Sudan have broken up? do they all have oil? aren't they all multicultural?

ekt_bear:

^-- I strongly disagree.

It costs more to transport a container from Lagos to Abuja than from China to Lagos. If that doesn't reflect on how poor the transportation system in this country is, I dunno what does. As I've said earlier. . . in a certain sense, this means that Lagos is closer to China (and the rest of the world) than it is to Abuja.

Transportation in this country might be good by African standards, but that isn't good enough.

Regarding your latter point. . . Africa (and the rest of the developing world) as a whole is urbanizing. Urbanization is not a bad thing. And it doesn't make much sense to fight it.

Ditto for the US, Ekubear. It costs more to transport a container from Long Beach, California to New York than from China to New York.

^-- Can you give some concrete #s for shipping?

BTW, not an apples and oranges comparison. . . Long beach to NYC is 2800+ miles, while Lagos to Abuja is 450 miles or so. 450 miles in the US I'm sure you can do at a fraction of the cost of getting from China.

Jenifa_:

1.we live in a very globalized world nowadays and I feel that that a united Nigeria gives us a better edge than three little powerless countries. ex. most powerful countries today are US, China. Even Europe formed a union for a reason.

Didn't you read the Wikileaks reports and see how the US and Shell have agents planted all throughout our gov't? Don't you think the multiculturalism of Nigeria makes it weak and prone to interference by outsiders?

Anyway, I feel more confident about a hypothetical Yorubaland (with probably 50 or 60 million+ people in it) being able to protect its interests better than Nigeria can. It isn't like the constituent countries would be banana republics.

2. we've done this for 50yrs+ and starting over will be more difficult than you think.

You prefer 50 years of banging your head against the wall, continuing with something that simply doesn't work? Period? Why not try a new approach?

It's easier to improve a system than overhaul it

Then why didn't the Soviet Union or Chekoslovakia just "improve the system"? Both of those former countries are FAR better off now than if they'd muddled along in a bad marriage.

3.who says the ijebus won't rise up against the ifes etc. or minor groups within igbo land won't start warring.

This is hypothetical fearmongering. Plus, there is nothing preventing that from happening now. . . but largely speaking it does not. Why would it be more likely to happen in a separate state than now?
Anyway, this imo is a ridiciulous point; Yoruba for the most part view themselves as one today. . . time, intermarriage, and having other rivals/enemies in the country have united us. No reason to believe this would fall apart (other than fearmongering.)

Even if all of West African were to become one country, it would take at least a century or close to that to happen. going back to point #2.
it's not just about politics and technical work. a lot of it is also personal and psychological. at least for me part of my identity is being a Nigerian and I def. don't want to lose that.

Bleh, screw that. I want economic progress. A country I can be proud of. A country that stands tall in the community of nations. Nigeria right now doesn't offer any of those things. Botched elections, mediocre presidential candidates, terrible governors and leaders, etc, etc. Why is that so compelling to you?

for the answer to your question about the basis of Nigerian unity, look around you to other african countries. how many besides Sudan have broken up? do they all have oil? aren't they all multicultural?

You've not answered the question, though. I think you are implicitly are agreeing that there is no basis for unity. Wishful thinking and dreaming is not enough.

ekt_bear:

^-- Can you give some concrete #s for shipping?

BTW, not an apples and oranges comparison. . . Long beach to NYC is 2800+ miles, while Lagos to Abuja is 450 miles or so. 450 miles in the US I'm sure you can do at a fraction of the cost of getting from China.

China-NYC is more than 2800 miles (more than 7000 miles. I think). But it's cheaper from China. This is just an observation and an acknowledgement of the capabilities of the the Chinese.

ekt_bear:

^-- Can you give some concrete #s for shipping?

You mean?

ola olabiy:

China-NYC is more than 2800 miles. But it's cheaper from China. This is just an observation and an acknowledgement of the capabilities of the the Chinese.

Shipping by water is probably just a fraction of the cost shipping by road or air. . . if it turns out that shipping by sea costs 1/5th of the distance of shipping by road, then you can ship 5X the distance at the same price.

This is a physics/business/transportation thing. . . nothing really special about China specifically. The guy I quoted probably used China as an example because they export so much stuff (and is pretty far away from Nigeria).

Anyway, the major point I (and the guy I quoted) is making is that Nigerian infrastructure right now is very bad. . . 450 miles by road from Lagos to Abuja should not be more expensive than 7K or 8k+ miles from Lagos to China. Long story short. . . we need better infrastructure.

ekt_bear:

Shipping by water is probably just a fraction of the cost shipping by road or air. . . if it turns out that shipping by sea costs 1/5th of the distance of shipping by road, then you can ship 5X the distance at the same price.

This is a physics/business/transportation thing. . . nothing really special about China specifically. The guy I quoted probably used China as an example because they export so much stuff (and is pretty far away from Nigeria).

Anyway, the major point I (and the guy I quoted) is making is that Nigerian infrastructure right now is very bad. . . 450 miles by road from Lagos to Abuja should not be more expensive than 7K or 8k+ miles from Lagos to China. Long story short. . . we need better infrastructure.

You are right.

ekt_bear:

Didn't you read the Wikileaks reports and see how the US and Shell have agents planted all throughout our gov't? Don't you think the multiculturalism of Nigeria makes it weak and prone to interference by outsiders?

Anyway, I feel more confident about a hypothetical Yorubaland (with probably 50 or 60 million+ people in it) being able to protect its interests better than Nigeria can. It isn't like the constituent countries would be banana republics.
You prefer 50 years of banging your head against the wall, continuing with something that simply doesn't work? Period? Why not try a new approach?
Then why didn't the Soviet Union or Chekoslovakia just "improve the system"? Both of those former countries are FAR better off now than if they'd muddled along in a bad marriage.

This is hypothetical fearmongering. Plus, there is nothing preventing that from happening now. . . but largely speaking it does not. Why would it be more likely to happen in a separate state than now?
Anyway, this imo is a ridiciulous point; Yoruba for the most part view themselves as one today. . . time, intermarriage, and having other rivals/enemies in the country have united us. No reason to believe this would fall apart (other than fearmongering.)
Bleh, screw that. I want economic progress. A country I can be proud of. A country that stands tall in the community of nations. Nigeria right now doesn't offer any of those things. Botched elections, mediocre presidential candidates, terrible governors and leaders, etc, etc. Why is that so compelling to you?
You've not answered the question, though. I think you are implicitly are agreeing that there is no basis for unity. Wishful thinking and dreaming is not enough.

@ bolded part. why do you think i'm arguing for more integration?
who says Nigeria can't also be united over time? Think about it, if we set the groundwork now, plenty yrs into d future, our grandkids wouldn't be able to imagine a divided Nigeria. Just like most Americans now can't imagine that Virginia existed as a separate colony from North Carolina 2 centuries ago.

your question is very abstract. you say the basis of Nigerian unity is oil. so what is the basis of cameroonian unity? or Tanzanian unity? etc
what do you think should be the basis for unity?
or are you arguing against the idea of a political state? 

I think your idea of Yoruba nation is a greater wishful thinking and dreaming than my idea of a more developed Nigeria.