When was the last time u saw a white man in the finals of any major 100m dash? Who are those that produce arguably the most soulful music in the world. We accept stereotypes like black people having higher libido than whites and facts like we are physically superior in some sports but when someone suggests white superiority in other aspects we cry RACISM. why the double standard?

The reason why there are few whites in 100m dash has less to do with "physical superiority" and more to do with sociological factors. I can bet money on this: there are ,many whites who can perform just as well as black people and if not better when it comes to sports. The question we should be asking our selves is how come black people are more visible in some sports than they are in other sports. In Canada, it is a known fact that there are more white people in ice hockey than black people. The reason is not because white people are better at it but it is due to other factors like cost of equipment, lack of black role models in ice-hockey to look up to, ideology of the sport and other things as well. So tell me if we lived in the period of segregation in America when blacks were not allowed to particiapte in sports that whites participated in would you actually believe that whites were more superior to blacks just because you did not see any in sports? Once again social factors have more to do with blacks and sports than race or physiology.

Secondly we cannot argue that black people produce the most soulful music in the world because ART ( music, paintings, fashion, design) is subjective!!

The stereotype that black people have a higher libido than white people has been scientifically disproven time and again. Plus that stereotype was perpetuated by white people to justify the rape and over-sexualisation of black people ( Read Bell Hooks)
I may be prejudiced ( and I believe that 99% of us are) but I definitely do not ascribe to the above stereotypes because life ( our experiences and circumstances) is made up of multiple and complex factors and cannot simply be reduced to "superiority", "inferiority" or race
And probably the people that believe in those stereotypes don't know any better but that does not make them true or acceptable.

@afrobeat, though at the son of your father.

However i believe that the reason why blacks are more porminent in certain sports in the US is that you have a skewed situation where blacks are actually encouraged to take up sports (they are assumed to be intellectually defficient, more of brawn than brain) while white kids are enouraged to go into the world of academics. Thousands of sports scouts flock high schools in search of "talented" black kids to recruit. The end result: the black kids ( probably 1 in 10000 make it to the top), end up in high profile sports, for the more than 90% that will never make it, it is too late to retrace their steps back to school. While all these was going on, their white colleagues are on scholarships in several phd programs!

I believe that "race" or adaptation may play a big role in stereotypes, e.g kenyans, ethiopians, do better at long distance races because they adapt to their high altitude environment.

@Davidylan,
I agree with your arguement which I think reinforces what I said that multiple and complex factors go into our experiences in life. While looking at "race "as the only determining factor of an outcome gives us a skewed view of why blacks are predominant in athletics; on the other hand, looking at "race" as only one factor of the whole picture (i.e. multiple and complex factors) is a better way of looking at things. So yeah I agree with you

Now back to Xkape
You said:

People of Indo-Europian stock have shown over time that they are very adept at organizing large groups for productive endevour.

This just seems like a gross over-generalization with no proof to back it up. What are you saying here. When Africans built great Zimbabwe was this not a productive endeavor? When we built as you said pyramids and the sphinx, was this not a productive endeavor? When we built the Universities of Cairo and Timbuktu, I guess we were not engaging in productive endeavors. And when we built the Bini Kingdom, the Zulu Kingdom, the Kanem, Mali, Asante, Songhay Kingdoms, were we not engaged in productive endeavours?

Even Modern day Botswana is engaged in [I]productive endeavour[/I] check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botswana

Since independence, Botswana has had the fastest growth in per capita income in the world. Economic growth averaged over 9% per year from 1966 to 1999. The government has maintained a sound fiscal policy, despite consecutive budget deficits in 2002 and 2003, and a negligible level of foreign debt. It earned the highest sovereign credit rating in Africa and has stockpiled foreign exchange reserves (over $5.1 billion in 2003/2004) amounting to almost two and one half years of current imports. Botswana's impressive economic record has been built on the foundation of wisely using revenue generated from diamond mining to fuel economic development through prudent fiscal policies and a cautious foreign policy. Debswana, the only diamond mining company operating in Botswana, is 50% owned by the government and generates about half of all government revenues

They have also shown they are less impassioned and more objective in their world-view.

Really? Are apartheid, slavery, segregation and the modern day treatment of Native Indians in North America examples of an "Objective World-View"? Maybe you should elaborate on what you mean here because I am not sure I understand what you mean by this.

Botswana has maintained one of the world's highest economic growth rates since independence in 1966. Through fiscal discipline and sound management, Botswana has transformed itself from one of the poorest countries in the world to a middle-income country with a per capita GDP of $10,000 in 2005. Two major investment services rank Botswana as the best credit risk in Africa.

Diamond mining has fueled much of the expansion and currently accounts for more than one-third of GDP and for 70-80% of export earnings. Tourism, financial services, subsistence farming, and cattle raising are other key sectors.

On the downside, the government must deal with high rates of unemployment and poverty. Unemployment officially is 23.8%, but unofficial estimates place it closer to 40%. HIV/AIDS infection rates are the second highest in the world and threaten Botswana's impressive economic gains. An expected leveling off in diamond mining production overshadows long-term prospects. Life expectancy at birth: total population: 33.74 years - male: 33.9 years - female: 33.56 years (2006 est.)

Colonialism was terrible for the continent and every Nigerian should know that. Why the hell are Yorubas, Hausas and Ibos in the same freakin country? What kind of slowpoke would do this.

Everyone whines about why Africans don't like each other and completely ignore that they are forced to live with groups that have routinely invaded their territories (See: Yoruba and Hausa).

The Maps of the entire West Africa, Central Africa and Eastern Africa needs to be redrawn. It is completely wrong. Why are Yorubas and the people of Dahomey in seperate countries? Why are people in Benin city not considered Yorubas even though they have been ruled by Yoruba kings for hundreds of years?

When the colonial maps were being drawn, it is clear that they did not pay any regards to people that lived there.

I am tired of dealing with the Hausa Gernerals/Muslims in North. And while I have no personal problems with the Igbos, I feel they deserve to have their own country. Nigeria is in its current situation because no one is willing to work for the good of the entire country. So, divide the country up into a size that people will be willing to work for. Split the country into 3 zone along the lines of the rivers.

@ Afeni

Who will get the third of the Country with the oil wells?

There would be some oil in the western portion (Yoruba and other groups), but most of the oil would go to the Eastern portion (Igbos and other groups east of the river niger).

I am Yoruba by the way. People are fooling themselves if they believe that oil is the end all of existence.

The oil is not the key to the future, but it would definitely make a difference if the income was spent now building up the infrastructure of Nigeria and creating Jobs. Unfortunately, nobody will give up the rights to the oil, so your idea of splitting the Country up is a bit of a pipe dream I am afraid.

I am certain that the Yorubas would be willing to give up the oil in the east of river Niger if it means that they get to free themselves of the failed State called Nigeria. There are plenty of Yorubas and other western groups that are overseas that would come back home and set up companies to ensure that the Odua nation (what ever its called) succeeded. Those Yorubas would not do that now because they have little if any love for Nigeria as a whole.

afrobeat:

If you are implying that groups of people can be superior to other groups of people then this is contradictory. You imply that no human being is superior to another but groups of people can be superior to other groups of people. But aren't groups of people made up of individual human beings? If individual human beings are contained in groups of people and no individual human being is superior to another individual human being then it necessarily follows that no group of people are superior to other groups of people.

Furthermore, the fact that you actually imply this reinforces my point that although you do not say with your mouth that you are inherently inferior to white people you imply it with your thinking and your arguments.

What the spook are u saying? Anytime someone suggests u people should stop griping abou this racism thing and get on with ur lives u shout U feel inferioir to whites. i dare sa that u and ur band are the inferior ones. ur inferiority is so deep-seated u cant even suggest it to urself. Classic freudian symptoms.

I can agree when you say that . I can say yes at a certain time in history and in a certain place certain people can do better than others in certain aspects/fields but I would never use that to say that it means that the group doing better at that point in time in that particular field is superior. Superior is such a wrong choice of word.

You are contradicting urself becos u do not want to hear the word inferior.
On the athleticism issue. Fine there are social fac tors involved in some sport but what social factor stops u from running? u r using the example of american society (like any americo-centric person that now turns around to talk about feeling inferior) What about other countries without a large population of blacks, where are thier hundred meter runners. The Japanese, some parts of eastern europe, middle east. what social factors prevent these ones from doing the most naturral of sports??
Besides, srinting has been traced to the presence of the protein actinin in the muscles and the prevalence of the protein has been shown to have a strong genetic link.
An inordinate number of the worlds prodigies have been shown to be of Jewish extraction even amongst europeans. what do you have to say to this?
slave traders preffered slaves from the west coast of africa because a greater number of them survide the sea crossing .
why?
U cannot explain away the genetic nature of human traits in a bid to protect urself from percieved inferiority or superiority
Some people will always be better at some things than others simple. wether by nature or by nuture. if u r so convinced it is nuture then we should nuture our children so they can dominate the world instead of staying here m,aking excuses for ourselves
Anytime someone points out the backwardness of the black race in terms of technology, someone points out Egypt
1. There is no proof that the people of ancient egypt were a homogenous group of negroid africans. In fact evidence sucjh as hairs obtained fromhundreds of mummies suggest otherwise. a black mans hair cannot lie can it? At best ancien egyptians were a mixed race group with different races achieving dominance over centuries
2. much of the culture and civilization of ancient egypt was obtained from ancient phoenicians and other meditereanean groups who are definitely not black.
3. the kingdoms of zimbabwe were dfinitely unique among african kingdoms interms of the grandeur of thier buildings but this was not sustained over the centuries nor did it spread effectively to the rest of black africa. so what is ur argument
4. do u realise that by the time europeans firt landed on the shore of west africa . the local civilizations had not even effectively discovered the wheel and axle?

Ok so the europeans have a head start, so get over it and move on. Run like u know how to

Afeni:


The Maps of the entire West Africa, Central Africa and Eastern Africa needs to be redrawn. It is completely wrong. Why are Yorubas and the people of Dahomey in seperate countries? Why are people in Benin city not considered Yorubas even though they have been ruled by Yoruba kings for hundreds of years?

HOLD UP! Because that is not how the Bini's tell their own history. There were Bini Kings ruling the Benin Kingdom before Oranmiyan came to Benin. And we believe he was the son of a Benin King that had been banished. Furthermore, Oranmiyan did not stay long in Benin. He left his son from a Bini woman to rule Benin. You can read some more info here
http://www.edofolks.com/html/hist.htm
I realise that everyone has their own history. I just wanted to draw your attention to the fact that the Bini's don't believe the whole " The Bini's have been ruled by Yoruba Kings for Hundreds of years" bit so that we don't take it as taken for granted.

Interesting read (not done reading). I have a link that you should see aswell. If I were you, I will not be so quick to accept the sugar coated history that your elders are spreading. Sure, it is embarrasing to be ruled by a foreign ruler but it was hundreds of years ago. As far as I am concerned, we are one now (Yoruba and Bini). Howerver I will like to find out more about the Bini sub-group. Do you people speak Yoruba? What States are you in, and about what percent of the total population of Nigeria do you make up?

Anyway, the link to the acticle that I used to make the assumption that Bini and Yoruba are a lot closer than many would have you believe is

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+ng0015)

Edit: Please, copy the link and paste it in your browser. It would work that way.

@ afeni
i'll try and give u some answers, the bini's predominately occupy one state(Edo), although u can find some tribes in neighbouring states that trace their origins from the binis, they dont speak yoruba they have their own dialect.

for what it's worth the whole bini and yoruba thing is a bit more complex each side have their own version of the same story and there's no sure way of telling which is true.

Are bini people also Edo?

yes they are edo, but thats also the name of a state which has other tribes.

Afeni:

If I were you, I will not be so quick to accept the sugar coated history that your elders are spreading.

Ah ah!! Wetin now. My point is that you have your version of history and we have ours. I am not accusing you of accepting "the sugar coated history that your elders are spreading" so I don't understand why you are acusing me. Please chill  

jjo:

for what it's worth the whole bini and yoruba thing is a bit more complex each side have their own version of the same story and there's no sure way of telling which is true.

very true


@ Afeni
Your link is not working. Can you paste it again

Copy the link and then paste it into your web browser. Sorry, I cant get it to work directly.


http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+ng0015)

i disagree with the point the poster tried to make that colonism was a good thing for africa 100 percent. Just ask yourself this question if colonism was so good for africa why is 80 percent of the whole population of africa living in poverty (from colonial dates till now.) please oh, ask me was africa in this type of poverty before the (god in some peoples eyes) white man came and took over the place. if it was how would kingdoms, city states, kingships, queens, arts, music have developed.

THe fact is that are ancestors lived far better than the typical african did today-- and nobody can disort that fact.

who ever said that south africa is good because the white man came to it, needs to check the facts.
were their aids orphans in SA before the white man came
why in the world were they oppressed by the (god) white man in apartheied. the only thing that make south africa good is their industry market

other than that their is still ca oss (aids, orphans, political violence, crazy hoods, gangs)


and i strongly object to the statement some one made that the gods that are ancestors worshipped were fake. Have you ever heard of igbo religion, compare that to the dynamics of christianity and you will realize that there is not much of a difference.
those gods were real and made a strong impact in people s lives.

that is enough

All dis history and geography lessons are not necessary. Simple question? Simple answer. Yes colonialism was good for Africa. The only problem is that we kept the disadvantages of colonialism---divide and conquer mentality, and did away with the good of it-education. China did the reverse and is progressing today!!!!!

saying colonism is good for africa is the equivalent of saying the white man was superior to the black man

you cant compare china to a whole continent
china was never oppressed by slavery or apartheid. and also china was not made up of 130 nations forced to be a country.
China didnt consist of 3000 different languages and ethnicities

turn on your TV and watch how bad africa as a whole is doing oh,
i beg lets be realistic, and not give praise to the evil that has swipped that continent.

there are children that have no food, no water, no employment but you say colonism was good

FACT: precolonial africans lived far more adequaetly and healthier than africans today, generally speaking

you said we kept the mentality "divide and conquer"
what else do expect if ethnicities and nations were cut off due to the lack of knowledge of borders

if you believe that it was good for africa so be it, but my question is why are you not living in your africa that the white man has made a better place

@ebeledi, are you implying that prior to colonialism, African tribes were at peace with each other?

With regards to religion, I highly doubt if Christianity was practised by the pre-colonial leaders. The traditional religion which has persisted in todays society is proof that its origin did not occur overnight, but dates back to as far as the pre-colonial age. I know that Christianity is a blessing to me, as well as to the outside world and I stand by it. Read "Things Fall Apart" to get a better grasp on the religion of the villagers, prior to the arrival of the white man. Now, tell me, how a mere idol can serve as an intercessor between God and Man. While being hailed as a classic, the novel, in my opinion has only justified the extent of the backwardness in our culture, that in today's society, would be condemnable. Read about the fate of Ikemefuna, the role of women in the society, etc. Sure, colonialism has its ills, but I'd like to think that its overall benefits overrides its short-comings. Blaming colonialism for the under-development in Africa is tantamount to not accepting blame for your own actions. If we had more than a few visionary leaders aside from Thomas Sankara, Africa would be among the leagues of the super powers, because of our natural resources.

PS: If you feel that colonialism is a deterrent to the development of Africa, hey, refrain from using the inventions of colonialism, and return back to our 'blissful' past.

Ndipe:

@ebeledi, are you implying that prior to colonialism, African tribes were at peace with each other?

With regards to religion, I highly doubt if Christianity was practised by the pre-colonial leaders. The traditional religion which has persisted in todays society is proof that its origin did not occur overnight, but dates back to as far as the pre-colonial age. I know that Christianity is a blessing to me, as well as to the outside world and I stand by it. Read "Things Fall Apart" to get a better grasp on the religion of the villagers, prior to the arrival of the white man. Now, tell me, how a mere idol can serve as an intercessor between God and Man. While being hailed as a classic, the novel, in my opinion has only justified the extent of the backwardness in our culture, that in today's society, would be condemnable. Read about the fate of Ikemefuna, the role of women in the society, etc. Sure, colonialism has its ills, but I'd like to think that its overall benefits overrides its short-comings. Blaming colonialism for the under-development in Africa is tantamount to not accepting blame for your own actions. If we had more than a few visionary leaders aside from Thomas Sankara, Africa would be among the leagues of the super powers, because of our natural resources.

PS: If you feel that colonialism is a deterrent to the development of Africa, hey, refrain from using the inventions of colonialism, and return back to our 'blissful' past.

Inventions are not the purview of any one person or group of people or culture. It is a natural occurence of a thinking person.
Colonialism on the other hand, is a killer of culture, innovations, expressions and sets back than natural selection and advancement of a people. This is what colonialism has done to Africa.

Besides the land grab and disorientation of tribal lands, the convoluted countries created as a result are experiencing strife today because of the ignorance of their colonial creators.

The argument of whether we got advancement as aresult, does not hold water or even air. Nigeria and most other African cultures would have evolved faster to either import or develop an advanced society of our own which would have been better understood. Instead we have techonologies sent to us, of which we lack comprehension.

Egypt was a better advanced nation pre-colonialism than most European countries of the day. Persia had better art and phylosophers than Europe. Bronze was being minted in Benin when the europeans were still living in caves.
Colonialism was a curse on Africa as it was on the Mayans and Incas. It was devastating on our cultures and retarded our natural evolution.

As for religion, the indegenes pre-christianity were very cognisant of a higher being (Olodunmare) in Yoruba. Our deities were mere intercessors to God. They were emissaries sent by God to work for us. Ifa the oracle was and is just the voice of Olodumare, not a god in itself. Christianity and Islam opened the way to slavers and colonialists. they today have more demi-gods than all the deities of the land. It has been used as a tool of strife and oppression and turned to big business.

I think the concept of colonialism is a good thing. However I beleive strongly that colonialism as it was applied to Africa produced very little benefits to africa, it was designed strictly to profit europe. Arabia and Europe PLUNDERED Africa, broke down the emerging middle class (most inventions and developments are made within the middle class) of ancient africa, and we ended up right here, with a messed up inferiority psyche, and a good doze of self hatred, along with the present unstable social structure.


Oh by the way, a great deal of what counts for "civilization" in the western world was paid for by the plundering and rape of Africa.

Colonization had its disadvantages but also advantages. Some major disadvantages were it conquered us, it oppressed us, it sold us, it brainwashed us, it cost us lives, it brought poverty, it brought distrust among the same race, it destroyed traditions and history. The advantages were it made us concious eventhough we don't take advantage of that, it taught us from our own view that we'r our own killers, it taught us that we'r the richest continent with resources only that we don't make good use of it, it opened our eyes to innovation and dubbed her technology, it made us interactive and is the driving force why we want freedom eventhough lots of african people don't regard that by still saving traditional rulers and regarding anyone that is not rich to be inferior and therefore should call u OGA.
Colonization was a harsh experience only i would have loved it if it were called the great war or something like that cuz that way we still have pride like the asians.

Thank you Naijaway for looking at it objectively. If we say colonialism did not bring anything good to Africa, then we are dishonest to ourselves. I use China for example because of the strong sense of self they have individually and collectively. Yes, they have their own problems with 3 billion people or more--- I think they have small problems. Look at their economy grow. Take a visit to the place and see how hard working they are to salvage themselves. Look in all the stores around the world, what do you see? MADE IN CHINA!!!!! The British were there too whether with slavery or not for 99 years. Did we not sell our own brothers for a cup of kain kain? Whose fault was it that we were colonized. Due to our genetic lilly-liveredness, we continue to sell our brothers and our lands to others. What America could not try in small vietnam. Naijaway, you hit the nail on the head by saying that colonialism made us realize that we are our own worst enemies.

@ Npide if that is how you describe your culture and your ancestors as backwards then good for you
i find it very offensive that you would call your own ansestors having quote "a blissful pass"
your words, i guessed this is part of the brain drain that is killing so many africans today which is part of the colonial past

just like in the US people still have us black people still have a slave mentality which is killing us
in africa we need to decolonize ourselves in order to move forward


lets not sum up africans as a lump
there were very diverse people as a whole, so before you tell me who were primitive please teach me the ethnic group you are talking about

and yes i am indeed saying tribes were at better peace with each other precolonial
if tribes were not at peace a whole race of people called the igbos would have never formed
who believed in democracy way before any white man stepped foot in africa

and by the way christianity surely wasnt practiced before the white man came *but since you feel that anything the white man does is great*

you are also using a fictional novel "all things fall apart" to justify our so called backwardness na wah if you are not a white man i dont know what to call you,

Judaism was established in precolonial africa before any white man check the facts my friend.

let me also tell you that your people (flesh and blood) were maids to these so called "saviors of africas" during the so called colonial period
being made servants in their own land by oybino na wah oh

while you sit and write your support for how colonism developed africa, why dont you also justify slavery as well as the explotation of the natural resourses you talk about like diamonds, oil, gold, etc.

the white man is probally sitting back in his computer right now and saying " yes you we colonized you fools, and you all accept it, because we are superior."

God bless

I think we should dissolve as a nation and declare ourselves a politically failed state

@nosa, then after that what else?

after that we rest

Rest where

@nosa, were u trying to say that after that they will be civil war within the new country or tribe. it keeps going on and on until it gets to a single family home and still yet no guaranteed peace because you 'll have neighbors. We just have to make the best and thats another thing that colonization has taught us; all those whites in europe and america live in peace amongst themselves, i mean they can leave their house unlocked for days and it will be without tamper but try that in other places. It boils down to respect for human live, respect for another person's property respect for government and vice versa, respect for someone's property, and all that respect brings.  
thumbs up Miltia.

MILITIA:

Rest where

Right where you are, in front of your laptop

naijaway:

@nosa, were u trying to say that after that they will be civil war within the new country or tribe.

No

naijaway:


it keeps going on and on until it gets to a single family home and still yet no guaranteed peace because you 'll have neighbors. We just have to make the best and thats another thing that colonization has taught us; all those whites in europe and america live in peace amongst themselves, i mean they can leave their house unlocked for days and it will be without tamper but try that in other places. It boils down to respect for human live, respect for another person's property respect for government and vice versa, respect for someone's property, and all that respect brings.
thumbs up Miltia.

False

My point: Ghey, worthless and moronic thread. Why? We should be happy we aren't extinct, look at the Native Americans. What we should be doing is putting the past in a dump truck and start building our economy and our identity. Has it been done before? Yes, check South Africa, Libya, India and Hong Kong. Arguing about the pros and cons of something that happened so long ago is just plain idiocy. It's not even crying over spilt milk, it's come back the next day hoping that milk goes back into the cup.