uuuummm, there were folks who sold from their own family actually. By the way, I thought the very fact that blacks sold blacks means blacks sold their own brothers/sisters/uncles and whatever, Come on. Whatever way you want to slice and dice it, blacks sold their own kind. No were in my post did I say Africa was only for slave trade. We had lots to sell including our own people. There is no need to want to explain things away. You mentioned trade and I mentioned one of the things we traded back then and even to this day.

Like I said earlier when we accept the fact that there are differences we will move forward, tribes are different so instead of buying to historical melodrama that one our brothers and sisters just because people had the same skin color then we can't move on. The British did not think the Irish were their brothers and they both spoke English but we should hate ourselves because we traded people that didn't even speak the same dialect. You said`that we were busy traded each other whilst the Chinese and Japanese were trading silk and what not, we traded ivory and other things but it was easier to just steal from us as we were seen as inferior. The only trade you mentioned was trading of people, people in Russia sell girls for sex and India as well so Africa is not the only place modern day slavery

Are you afraid of accepting facts as just that facts? Why do you need to make the excuses and labels?? For whom do you do that self??

I am not making excuses for anyone especially myself as I am in no way involved in the past or present slave trade in Africa. The only thing am doing is trying to make sure blacks don't take the blame for everything. There's no fact to accept except the fact that all we do agree with every label we are placed with. I don't think there is any other race as guilty for colonization and its horors as blacks and there is no other race as mentally colonized as blacks. Some people even refer to themselves as having Niggerrites.
Why are you making so many excuses for the former colonial masters, for whom do you make them?

wendymanda:

Like I said earlier when we accept the fact that there are differences we will move forward, tribes are different so instead of buying to historical melodrama that one our brothers and sisters just because people had the same skin color then we can't move on. The British did not think the Irish were their brothers and they both spoke English but we should hate ourselves because we traded people that didn't even speak the same dialect. You said`that we were busy traded each other whilst the Chinese and Japanese were trading silk and what not, we traded ivory and other things but it was easier to just steal from us as we were seen as inferior. The only trade you mentioned was trading of people, people in Russia sell girls for sex and India as well so Africa is not the only place modern day slavery
I am not making excuses for anyone especially myself as I am in no way involved in the past or present slave trade in Africa. The only thing am doing is trying to make sure blacks don't take the blame for everything. There's no fact to accept except the fact that all we do agree with every label we are placed with. I don't think there is any other race as guilty for colonization and its horors as blacks and there is no other race as mentally colonized as blacks. Some people even refer to themselves as having Niggerrites.
Why are you making so many excuses for the former colonial masters, for whom do you make them?

I have no where in my post made any excuse for them but made sure to balance it all out so you see that it was not a white thing , this colonization issue, but a mind thing. We africans were not colonized long enough for us to claim we can blame colonization for this or that and so it has it's bad and good but we have absolutely No right to play the " THE WHITES ARE AFTER US GAME" at all is my point. We have done worse to self than any people have to us in all of history. Before the "WHITE" man came in recently, we have ourselves colonized others so complaining now that same happens to us is ridiculous and so speaking of it's bad and good is meaningless since we ourselves if we look back carefully into history have been masters at some point. And I do agree, all that has happened to us has been of our own doing and no one elses.

I do agree, all that has happened to us has been of our own doing and no one elses.

That is an example of the white man's apologist. Could you tell me who we colonized before recently being colonized ourselves. Also please enlight me on how we are playing the WHITE MAN ARE AFTER US game, all am saying is the colonization was not good for Africa and showing how mental colonization have ruined us.

wendymanda:


That is an example of the white man's apologist. Could you tell me who we colonized before recently being colonized ourselves. Also please enlight me on how we are playing the WHITE MAN ARE AFTER US game, all am saying is the colonization was not good for Africa and showing how mental colonization have ruined us.

Prove to me that we NEVER colonized any other people in history and maybe you have a story to tell here. If you want to pull recent then please how recent do you want to go?? 50 years?? wait a second,  in 3 years,  we would not consider colonization of Nigeria recent. You mean you want to put away all of history just for the piece you want to make your point with?? Come on ,  Unless you can prove to me that at no time in history did the Nigerian people themselves colonize any other people, all I can tell you is you can not refute my argument yourself but if you want to be honest you open yourself to that possibility that it may have happened at some time in our past. By the way, do you know that most of the hausas we have in the north were not the original people who lived up north Just cause we do not have an extensive record of our history does not mean we just came out of thing air.

Mental colonization happens to be the whole argument that COLONIZATION did this and that to us, which is rubbish cause even you have stated yourself that countries that have never been colonized, as far as we know NOW still had to deal with similar things. You used Ethiopia earlier, and I mentioned that compared to Nigeria, that country is doing worse.

Prove to me that we NEVER colonized any other people in history and maybe you have a story to tell here. If you want to pull recent then please how recent do you want to go?? 50 years?? wait a second, in 3 years, we would not consider colonization of Nigeria recent. You mean you want to put away all of history just for the piece you want to make your point with?? Come on , Unless you can prove to me that at no time in history did the Nigerian people themselves colonize any other people, all I can tell you is you can not refute my argument yourself but if you want to be honest you open yourself to that possibility that it may have happened at some time in our past. By the way, do you know that most of the hausas we have in the north were not the original people who lived up north Just cause we do not have an extensive record of our history does not mean we just came out of thing air.

Mental colonization happens to be the whole argument that COLONIZATION did this and that to us, which is rubbish cause even you have stated yourself that countries that have never been colonized, as far as we know NOW still had to deal with similar things. You used Ethiopia earlier, and I mentioned that compared to Nigeria, that country is doing worse.

Nigeria was formed in 1914 so now please tell me who Nigeria colonized. People who are the most mentally colonized are the ones that usually call the argument rubbish. You really don't think that the Mustard gas that was used to massacre Ethopia had no effect on their current state?come on.

wendymanda:



Nigeria was formed in 1914 so now please tell me who Nigeria colonized. People who are the most mentally colonized are the ones that usually call the argument rubbish. You really don't think that the Mustard gas that was used to massacre Ethopia had no effect on their current state?come on.

Oh my gosh!!! you keep deviating. Way before 1914, the people still existed and as groups colonized other peoples. What do you keep deviating from the point? What has the mustard gas used on ethiopia to do with this?? You are the same person who came up with Ethiopia was not colonized argument and I am telling you that it does not necessarily mean that they are better off cause of that. Stop going off on tangents and by the way being able to say something is rubbish is not slavery but shows one is maybe willing to use ones mind. You are busy throwing in this and that but when you hit a wall, you deviate. That is not how to argue though. Basically, you have yet to show that colonization is to blame for a single thing but you have shown that whether or not the people were colonized or not, it is up to the people to decide what their end will be. I mean come on. Even india is doing better than Nigeria is and yet the country was under the british for longer. My point is this, most all people have, be it under the flag of a nation or as a people, have experienced colonization or themselves colonized another group at one time of another in history. Nigeria's case and even africa's case is not unique and so should not be treated as a unique case. We have no excuse and no blame to put on colonization more than the rest of the world that experienced same.

Oh my gosh!!! you keep deviating. Way before 1914, the people still existed and as groups colonized other peoples. What do you keep deviating from the point? What has the mustard gas used on ethiopia to do with this?? You are the same person who came up with Ethiopia was not colonized argument and I am telling you that it does not necessarily mean that they are better off cause of that. Stop going off on tangents and by the way being able to say something is rubbish is not slavery but shows one is maybe willing to use ones mind. You are busy throwing in this and that but when you hit a wall, you deviate. That is not how to argue though. Basically, you have yet to show that colonization is to blame for a single thing but you have shown that whether or not the people were colonized or not, it is up to the people to decide what their end will be. I mean come on. Even india is doing better than Nigeria is and yet the country was under the british for longer. My point is this, most all people have, be it under the flag of a nation or as a people, have experienced colonization or themselves colonized another group at one time of another in history. Nigeria's case and even africa's case is not unique and so should not be treated as a unique case. We have no excuse and no blame to put on colonization more than the rest of the world that experienced same.

Why is that my arguments are diviations but when you ignore viable arguments thats not going off on some tangent. Ok you said that Nigeria colonized people and am telling you that Nigeria did not exist as an entity until 1914 when the British brought a bunch of people that had only skin color in common and imagined a Nation. It is extremely important to be precise when arguing so you don't hit on a wall and try to find a way out by calling the rebutal deviation. Now that it is again established that Nigeria came into being in 1914 and since then has not colonized anyone can you now please tell me who was colonized by the people living in present day Nigeria? Or who was colonized by whatever existed before it was called Nigeria (I suspect this is the only one you can answer even though this is not what your former argument was).

You ask what has Mustard gas to do with this? Do you really think Mustard Gas bomb has nothing to do with the current state of Ethopia? Come on next thing you will say the Namibian genocide of the 1900s has nothing or Heroshima has nothing to do with the state of the country. You can do better than that.

India is bigger than Nigeria and even if India is doing better than Nigeria you forget that Japan that was not colonized is doing better than India. You easily forget that I mentioned China and Japan because it does not fit into your argument but am the one going off on a tangent. In the case you did not know this colonization has had an effect and if you think that a country or a people can only be measured by their wealth then how sad. The reason I denounce the effect of colonization and will forever maintain that its effects were and are worse than the good it did. The colonized people hate themselves, want proof of that right here on Nairaland is proof from one inferiority complex to the other based on how they compare to whites. The white man's syndrome has infected all that have been colonized, even in your India majority of the poor are of dark skin because in their caste system only people that look closest to white are good enough to have money and be in power. Watch Bollywood movies anything. Whether or not yo want to believe that the evils of colonization were worse than the measly good of "building roads, education and hospital" it is true. None of the infrastructure esablished because of colonization was worth it. People in Africa and other countries were alive without them and are worse off with them. The Naitive Indians rearranged their whole system to accomodate the colonizers and what good it did them, didn't the American government take away their land, send them on a march thousands of miles away to give them a "sovereign nation" within the US. You can sing all you want and be the apologists for the colonizer till thy kingdom come but the truth is Colonization was good for only the colonial masters. The only thing colonization has done for us is make us the mumu, if we succeed then it is all thanks to the colonizers, if we don't then it is all thanks to the stupidity of the black race that can succeed at anything. You can try and convince me about alot of things but not the "good" colonization has done for us. Unless hating oneself is a "good " then no.

wendymanda:


[b/]There was something we have that the West needed and still needs so trading would have still been possible without colonization. Also it is engineered into the humans to explore and I feel that through exploration Africa would have been able to learn certain European things without us being trarted like brutes.[/b]

Kobojunkie:

But we were busy trading our own brothers and sisters into slavery before colonization?? I mean can you beat that one?? LOL,

wendymanda:



Before we repeat the embedded lines that we sold our brothers and sister, first of all the Arabs started the slave trade by trading black Africans. Also no one was trading their own brothers but people they captured in wars, just like the Romans did not think the Brits were their bothers when pillaging. No one sold their brothers, kinsmen but they sold people they considered enemies. I think when we recognize that just like we have recognized that black is different from white is when we will move forward. Even though we want to maintain we are brothers and sisters and sing cumbaia we are not, Nigeria was not one country but people of different tribes who had nothing in common but skin color.

I TAG THIS IRRELEVANT AND SO DOES NOT CHANGE WHAT I POSTED EARLIER IN YOUR STATEMENT THAT TRADE WOULD HAVE DONE THIS OR THAT [/b]

wendymanda:

Slavery of the many stories for why it started another one was that the Americans tried to enslave American Indians but they told them there were black people that could go a whole day without eating and bam they enslaved us. Also they did not only trade humans with Africans, the attraction to South Africa was not merely for slave trade, not even it was for diamonds. The white man will for anything the shines and sparkles and will find arguments to conceal. Wasn't another argument that blacks were lazy. How can we be lazy when we are the one doing their work and not eating for a whole day. Beat that!!

[b] AGAIN THIS RESPONSE DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT COLONIZATION HAS DONE TO NIGERIA SO IT IS IRRELEVANT

[/quote]

wendymanda:


Also slavery was not the only trading even though it's the only one that is pronounced the most, thwere was the trade of ivory and many other minerals so we should not be blinded by what we were fed, Ngugi Wa Thiongo summerized it in an amaizing way in his introduction to the essay "Decolonizing the Mind: The Politics of Language in African Literature."

uuuummm, there were folks who sold from their own family actually. By the way, I thought the very fact that blacks sold blacks means blacks sold their own brothers/sisters/uncles and whatever, Come on. Whatever way you want to slice and dice it, blacks sold their own kind. No were in my post did I say Africa was only for slave trade. We had lots to sell including our own people. There is no need to want to explain things away. You mentioned trade and I mentioned one of the things we traded back then and even to this day. Africans have been trading humans among other things, long before the "white man" came in to the picture. Back over 2000 years ago, there are records of black slaves in rome and in greece. No where is it written that there were no Nigerian slaves back then and to this day we see the same trade going on. It does not necessarily have much to do with colonialism if you really want to be honest.

[quote author=wendymanda link=topic=12021.msg1803632#msg1803632 date=1198941852]
Like I said earlier when we accept the fact that there are differences we will move forward, tribes are different so instead of buying to historical melodrama that one our brothers and sisters just because people had the same skin color then we can't move on. The British did not think the Irish were their brothers and they both spoke English but we should hate ourselves because we traded people that didn't even speak the same dialect. You said`that we were busy traded each other whilst the Chinese and Japanese were trading silk and what not, we traded ivory and other things but it was easier to just steal from us as we were seen as inferior. The only trade you mentioned was trading of people, people in Russia sell girls for sex and India as well so Africa is not the only place modern day slavery

Please spend time to actually read my posts instead of inserting your ideas into them. No where did I post such. You reached that conclusion all on your own and note above where I point out again that I never posted that it was the only thing africans traded but one of the many things africans traded.

wendymanda:

am not making excuses for anyone especially myself as I am in no way involved in the past or present slave trade in Africa. The only thing am doing is trying to make sure blacks don't take the blame for everything. There's no fact to accept except the fact that all we do agree with every label we are placed with. I don't think there is any other race as guilty for colonization and its horors as blacks and there is no other race as mentally colonized as blacks. Some people even refer to themselves as having Niggerrites.
Why are you making so many excuses for the former colonial masters, for whom do you make them?

No Where in my post have I made any excuse for anyone. I have basically made it clear that almost all peoples on this planet have at one time or another been involved in colonizing another. again my focus has not been on any particular nation but on peoples. Before Nigeria was united, like in my last post, the individual groups have at one time or another been involved at some point or another more than likely.

Prove to me that we NEVER colonized any other people in history and maybe you have a story to tell here. If you want to pull recent then please how recent do you want to go?? 50 years?? wait a second, in 3 years, we would not consider colonization of Nigeria recent. You mean you want to put away all of history just for the piece you want to make your point with?? Come on , Unless you can prove to me that at no time in history did the Nigerian people themselves colonize any other people, all I can tell you is you can not refute my argument yourself but if you want to be honest you open yourself to that possibility that it may have happened at some time in our past. By the way, do you know that most of the hausas we have in the north were not the original people who lived up north Just cause we do not have an extensive record of our history does not mean we just came out of thing air.

Mental colonization happens to be the whole argument that COLONIZATION did this and that to us, which is rubbish cause even you have stated yourself that countries that have never been colonized, as far as we know NOW still had to deal with similar things. You used Ethiopia earlier, and I mentioned that compared to Nigeria, that country is doing worse.

NOTICE THE USE OF THE WORD COUNTRY IN THIS CASE

wendymanda:
Nigeria was formed in 1914 so now please tell me who Nigeria colonized. People who are the most mentally colonized are the ones that usually call the argument rubbish. You really don't think that the Mustard gas that was used to massacre Ethopia had no effect on their current state?come on.

Again, You brought up the argument that countries that were never colonized are doing better and Ethiopia was brought into the picture to show that is not necessarily the case. Sure the Country Nigeria came into existence in 1914 but the people who lived in that area did not fall out of thing air and may AGAIN have themselves colonized other people's even before the creation of the NAME and country NIGERIA in 1914. History of these people go way back before 1914, even though the country itself was formed in 1914.

Oh my gosh!!! you keep deviating. Way before 1914, the people still existed and as groups colonized other peoples. What do you keep deviating from the point? What has the mustard gas used on ethiopia to do with this?? You are the same person who came up with Ethiopia was not colonized argument and I am telling you that it does not necessarily mean that they are better off cause of that. Stop going off on tangents and by the way being able to say something is rubbish is not slavery but shows one is maybe willing to use ones mind. You are busy throwing in this and that but when you hit a wall, you deviate. That is not how to argue though. Basically, you have yet to show that colonization is to blame for a single thing but you have shown that whether or not the people were colonized or not, it is up to the people to decide what their end will be. I mean come on. Even india is doing better than Nigeria is and yet the country was under the british for longer. My point is this, most all people have, be it under the flag of a nation or as a people, have experienced colonization or themselves colonized another group at one time of another in history. Nigeria's case and even africa's case is not unique and so should not be treated as a unique case. We have no excuse and no blame to put on colonization more than the rest of the world that experienced same.

wendymanda:

Why is that my arguments are diviations but when you ignore viable arguments thats not going off on some tangent. Ok you said that Nigeria colonized people and am telling you that Nigeria did not exist as an entity until 1914 when the British brought a bunch of people that had only skin color in common and imagined a Nation. It is extremely important to be precise when arguing so you don't hit on a wall and try to find a way out by calling the rebutal deviation. Now that it is again established that Nigeria came into being in 1914 and since then has not colonized anyone can you now please tell me who was colonized by the people living in present day Nigeria? Or who was colonized by whatever existed before it was called Nigeria (I suspect this is the only one you can answer even though this is not what your former argument was).

You ask what has Mustard gas to do with this? Do you really think Mustard Gas bomb has nothing to do with the current state of Ethopia? Come on next thing you will say the Namibian genocide of the 1900s has nothing or Heroshima has nothing to do with the state of the country. You can do better than that.

India is bigger than Nigeria and even if India is doing better than Nigeria you forget that Japan that was not colonized is doing better than India. You easily forget that I mentioned China and Japan because it does not fit into your argument but am the one going off on a tangent. In the case you did not know this colonization has had an effect and if you think that a country or a people can only be measured by their wealth then how sad. The reason I denounce the effect of colonization and will forever maintain that its effects were and are worse than the good it did.The colonized people hate themselves, want proof of that right here on Nairaland is proof from one inferiority complex to the other based on how they compare to whites. The white man's syndrome has infected all that have been colonized, even in your India majority of the poor are of dark skin because in their caste system only people that look closest to white are good enough to have money and be in power. Watch Bollywood movies anything. Whether or not yo want to believe that the evils of colonization were worse than the measly good of "building roads, education and hospital" it is true. None of the infrastructure esablished because of colonization was worth it. People in Africa and other countries were alive without them and are worse off with them. The Naitive Indians rearranged their whole system to accomodate the colonizers and what good it did them, didn't the American government take away their land, send them on a march thousands of miles away to give them a "sovereign nation" within the US. You can sing all you want and be the apologists for the colonizer till thy kingdom come but the truth is Colonization was good for only the colonial masters. The only thing colonization has done for us is make us the mumu, if we succeed then it is all thanks to the colonizers, if we don't then it is all thanks to the stupidity of the black race that can succeed at anything. You can try and convince me about alot of things but not the "good" colonization has done for us. Unless hating oneself is a "good " then no.

I had to go back again to the page before this to get this again for you

Kobojunkie:

The very fact that you make that all about colonization just blows whatever you have to the NO MAKE SENSE zone. Are you seriously telling me that China and where it is at today is because it was not colonized according to you?? No comment from me on that one cause you just hanged your point there!!

Ethiopia is not doing better than Nigeria, you do know that right?? Countries that were never colonized all had there down time. Even China is still to be classified as an under developed country. Do not be fooled by the side you see. If you had been in china about 47 years ago, you would understand why I say we have been the reason why we are were we are to were today.

I don't see people saying that if not for colonialism, we would not have doctors and the likes. The point I am actually trying to make is it has been almost 50 years since the end of colonial rule in that nation and we are doing worse than we were back then as a nation and worst is that most of the harm has been caused by factors within and not by the colonials. Hence the reason why I completely agree with the poster that urged that we move forward and stop with the NIGERIA IS WHERE IT IS TODAY CAUSE OF COLONIALISM.

If you are trying to argue that hate and disregard is a result of colonization, then I seriously say we end this now. From the very beginning, man has been known to turn on his own brother for various reasons, Mother's against their own children, fathers against their own sons. Many of this existed from the beginning.

Even in Japan, there has existed a class system, even in China, from long before we can remember. I do believe colonizers only took advantage of this where they could to get their end just as countries and nations take advantage of wholes in systems to their advantage. It has been the way of the world from so long in history and I do not think even now that most of the world have moved on from colonization mentality, that will end. No We will find something else to put the blame on instead of dealing with reality and solving issues. From the Egyptians to the greeks to the romans, the hausas and many other people in history who have colonized other people, it has been the same, play on the people's weakness, which already existed long before the colonizers came into the picture, to their own ( colonizers) advantage.

Let us talk about Nigeria as a colonized nation. Why should we remain stagnant for so long after independence. Like somebody said earlier, we have some bunch of nincompoops parading themselves as self made Messiahs. What excuse do they have almost 50 years after independence. Right from Tafawa Balewa to Ironsi's aberration, then Gowon blind interregnum to Buhari's misplaced priorities, then the brazen brigandage and blatant robbery of Babangida's regime to the genocidal reign of Abacha and the appalling government of OBJ. I am sick of talking colonialism for half a century. Safe for people like Awolowo with his vision for the old western region I am yet to see any leader in Nigeria. All the rest are bunch of buffoons who wants power for what they are going to get from it not for the interest of the nation and the people. What we need is a leader not a president. Any fool can be president but not everybody can have the vision of a leader.

Please spend time to actually read my posts instead of inserting your ideas into them. No where did I post such. You reached that conclusion all on your own and note above where I point out again that I never posted that it was the only thing africans traded but one of the many things africans traded.

They traded with China and Japan. The West Indies was "discovered" as Comebucus was looking for another trading route to India that would be faster.

But we were busy trading our own brothers and sisters into slavery before colonization?? I mean can you beat that one?? LOL,

This is you response to my statement so how am I inserting anything. I think you should reread your own post or even modify them to fit what you want instead of ranting off. How am I ranting off when you yourself said the above.

am not making excuses for anyone especially myself as I am in no way involved in the past or present slave trade in Africa. The only thing am doing is trying to make sure blacks don't take the blame for everything. There's no fact to accept except the fact that all we do agree with every label we are placed with. I don't think there is any other race as guilty for colonization and its horors as blacks and there is no other race as mentally colonized as blacks. Some people even refer to themselves as having Niggerrites.
Why are you making so many excuses for the former colonial masters, for whom do you make them?

No Where in my post have I made any excuse for anyone. I have basically made it clear that almost all peoples on this planet have at one time or another been involved in colonizing another. again my focus has not been on any particular nation but on peoples. Before Nigeria was united, like in my last post, the individual groups have at one time or another been involved at some point or another more than likely.

  It sucks to assume doesn’t it? You assumed I was making excuses for someone and when I made the same assumption of you quickly realize how annoying it is. And you have been making excuses for the colonial masters by saying that the problem in Nigeria, Ethiopia and the likes is not because of colonization and the likes, oh please. Ethiopia was not colonized the brutality that came with the attempt had an effect. Therefore I brand your above argument irrelevant. Just because the individual groups at some point colonized people does not mean that British colonization does not have effect. How do you know the people that were colonized by different tribal groups did not have an effect on them? You’re changing the whole debate to something else colonization of anybody or its attempt is not good neither for the nation nor the people.

Mental colonization happens to be the whole argument that COLONIZATION did this and that to us, which is rubbish cause even you have stated yourself that countries that have never been colonized, as far as we know NOW still had to deal with similar things. You used Ethiopia earlier, and I mentioned that compared to Nigeria, that country is doing worse.

NOTICE THE USE OF THE WORD COUNTRY IN THIS CASE

I still don’t get what point you’re trying to get across here? Please explicate further.

Again, You brought up the argument that countries that were never colonized are doing better and Ethiopia was brought into the picture to show that is not necessarily the case. Sure the Country Nigeria came into existence in 1914 but the people who lived in that area did not fall out of thing air and may AGAIN have themselves colonized other people's even before the creation of the NAME and country NIGERIA in 1914. History of these people go way back before 1914, even though the country itself was formed in 1914.

Maybe if you told me the name of the people they colonized then I would know where you’re going with this argument. Even if they had colonized people did it occur to you that those people would have been re colonized by the British or which ever European colonists there? Therefore that argument is null and void.

I had to go back again to the page before this to get this again for you

No disrespect but what

If you are trying to argue that hate and disregard is a result of colonization, then I seriously say we end this now. From the very beginning, man has been known to turn on his own brother for various reasons, Mother's against their own children, fathers against their own sons. Many of this existed from the beginning.

This spiel is highly irrelevant.

Even in Japan, there has existed a class system, even in China, from long before we can remember. I do believe colonizers only took advantage of this where they could to get their end just as countries and nations take advantage of wholes in systems to their advantage. It has been the way of the world from so long in history and I do not think even now that most of the world have moved on from colonization mentality, that will end. No We will find something else to put the blame on instead of dealing with reality and solving issues. From the Egyptians to the greeks to the romans, the hausas and many other people in history who have colonized other people, it has been the same, play on the people's weakness, which already existed long before the colonizers came into the picture, to their own ( colonizers) advantage.

I’m arguing that because of European colonization there is the white syndrome where people think they are inferior and only things of white approval are accepted. Oh so you know that there is a colonization mentality. Your argument is not straight forward, there is a colonization mentality but colonization is not the reason for some of the problems that exists today. You said that in three years it would have been 50 years since colonization ended however you did not notice that non of the current presidents and former are under 50 years old. You don’t recognize that they were alive when the whites had power and seemed that blacks will never be able to rule or have wealth. Am not saying that greed is not in the heart of men and colonization is the only blame for the current state of Nigeria, but colonization highly partook in it.

Let us talk about Nigeria as a colonized nation. Why should we remain stagnant for so long after independence. Like somebody said earlier, we have some bunch of nincompoops parading themselves as self made Messiahs. What excuse do they have almost 50 years after independence. Right from Tafawa Balewa to Ironsi's aberration, then Gowon blind interregnum to Buhari's misplaced priorities, then the brazen brigandage and blatant robbery of Babangida's regime to the genocidal reign of Abacha and the appalling government of OBJ. I am sick of talking colonialism for half a century. Safe for people like Awolowo with his vision for the old western region I am yet to see any leader in Nigeria. All the rest are bunch of buffoons who wants power for what they are going to get from it not for the interest of the nation and the people. What we need is a leader not a president. Any fool can be president but not everybody can have the vision of a leader.

Maybe we should try someone younger, in their 40s so that person with youngblood and not having been at anytime time been under the control of the Brits and thus filled with greed. I feel like younger people have more vigor and might be more led by change and a sense of purpose than greed. Those old potbellied fools are only for themselves

wow! the major protest against colonialism is tha they came to steal our resources but i want to qucikly ask, what happened to these resources before colonialism and what is happening to these resources after colonialism?

we must not forget that even our learned men are learned via the whites. the irony of it all is that most of the anti europeans and americans here are living there. osama bin laden was against the western education and was a big force against afghans recieving western education rather they were restricted to arabic education but funny enough, this same man including every member of his family is educated in the western world.
sadam husien used to hate americans like hell but was so much in love with the US dollars,

is any of us here ready to go back to the pre-colonial era? the truthful answer here will be NO a big no.

nigeria for instance has been 47 and will be 48 this year, how far have we gone? the most sucessful part of our lives/govt has been the department of money laundary - carrying our money to the whitemen we don't like.

won't it be better if outsiders are stealing our things and we have that for a reason rather than having home grown criminals who rape us in the interests of the whites.

Zimbabwe today is a good example of independence of which south africans who experienced apparthied has no stories to tell where a zimbabwean is.

like seun and others rightly said, it i time to move forward but the problem is, moving forward must involve where u are coming from and where u are going.

i know it is one of the greatest impossibilities of our time, obj had second and third chances in rulling nigerian and nigerians, how i wish the whites will have another chance to colonise us if possible let us go through apparthied to see if we can be like south africa the most developed african country- i mean developed all rounds.

by the way, ethiopia was not colonised by anyone but where are they today in the present scheme of things in africa? where do they belong in the who is who of african countries?

south africa paid the price of appreticeship and today they are reaping the fruits of their labour but ethiopia refused to learned claiming they knew it all but i know they will be looking for a way to be colonised by now maybe nigeria will have the opportunity to colonised ethiopia.

"we must not forget that even our learned men are learned via the whites."

Do you honestly think that law and order in pre-colonial times were under the auspices of whites? I doubt it!

i am not sure that europe ever had africa at heart,

Omobachi i could not agree with you more. There seems to be this perverted notion by the 'West' that our Africa is one big country with different different states.
You hear it all the time: "last month i went to Africa" - no you did'nt you went to Nijeria, South Africa, Liberia e.t.c. all are countries on the African Continent.
I am afraid it will be one of history's greatest understatements for me to state that the acts of colonism that was laid-upon us in yester-years "has been the single most catastrophic episode that befell mother Africa.
She has been awoken again and again and now bellowing to the citizens of the world to give her and her inhabitants the respect that is rightfuly ours.

there are some interesting arguments here.

i would say that all things considered colonialism is not the evil thing that some people on here such as wendimanda make it. we need to stop crying and going poor us. shit happens. the so called europe you're demonizing was basically in ruins 60 years ago. germany was a mess, russia was in upheaval thanks to stalin etc etc. why are they where they were today?

what would you call the rape of Nanjing? or the subjugation of China by Japan in world war 2? or hiroshima war and natural disasters have done as much harm to places as colonialism. china suffered under the cultural revolution now look at them, that could have been us.

but to stay on topic, there are countries that have were colonised that are better of than us now, how do you explain that? i read six pages hoping that someone would cite malaysia for instance, i think when they got independence around the same time as up they actually had nothing. they came and got palm kernels from us (it might be them or singapore) back then. now nigerians are going there for university. we should be ashamed of ourselves.

instead we'll probably sit and whine about how the white man screwed us over when our destiny has been in our hands since 1960.

another thing that gets me is yeah, they lumped us together and thats why we have civil wars. this is somewhat true, but guess what, africa doesn't have the monopoly on strange bedfellows. spain for instance is made up of catalans, basques, castellanos etc and they certainly don't get along. they would be a mess if not for the strong (but undemocratic) leadership of franco. if we really want to get somewhere, we need to rise above these petty issues.

If you think stealing Africa's natural resources, segregating Africans in their homeland, and drawing up nations that ended up having civil wars because of previous cultural differences was good for Africa, than that's your demented view on things.

My opinion of Colonialism, is that it was the worst thing to happen to Africa after the Atlantic slave trade. Colonists embarked on our lands at first to gather slaves (sold by Africans, but still bad). Later on after the slave trade, many European nations partook in "The scramble for Africa", where they created colonies, and made indigenous Africans build their new societies, and at the same time making them live in townships outside of the city (in most cases). Irresponsible colonists also did no research when they decided to draw maps of these new colonies, and didn't think twice about who or what could happen if the two come together.

Many if not all civil wars in Africa can be blamed on the carelessness of colonists who decided to draw maps of countries that would fail in the future. For that one reason is why you have many African nations who have split ie. Mali, East Africa, Congo, etc. . . You also have former states like India which included Pakistan and Bangladesh at one point, but ended up splitting.

To conclude, the only good thing that came out of colonialism is the infrastructure it left when it was destroyed. The rest about colonialism, I absolutely hate, and wish it never happened. I also don't mind when "colonist descendent's" leave our lands en mass, ie. Afrikaners, Angolan-Portuguese, French Ghanaian, etc. . .

http://www.globalpolitician.com/22569-africa

I culled the above link from the internet. My comment on colonialism is the sheer abundance of materialism, instant gratification and greed in our society. Our forefathers lifestyles were simple and contented.

.

Was colonisation good for Africa? - No.
But was it better than what's in place now? - Yes.

These white washed negors don't have the slightest clue as to what white supremacy as a global exploitative system is all about. And everything you daft zombies think you know will only confuse you until you fully overstand what white supremacy is.

The fact that the victims of the savagery of coloniazation are utterly oblivious as to their status as oppressed slave in a modern global economic system is enough proof that colonization and neocolonization are totally detrimental to the well being and society of the alkebulanite(or so-called black african).

These idiots don't know that these so-called colonies where actully owned and operated by companies(i.e royal niger company) that were in turn backed by the brutish/british(in the case of british colonies) bureaucratic state apparartus which enabled these companies to monopolize the use of legitimate force. Even till this very day companies like royal dutch shell own nigeria and they employ these low lives we call our leaders (who are nothing but white supremacists with black faces) to man that caricature labelled the nigerian government.

Think about it you morons, if that criminal private corporate entity called nigeria derives 95% of its revenue from oil exports and royal dutch shell owns the majority shares in the oil company then who is actually the president of nigeria? Is there an all powerful invisible government?

Do we really think we can "move on" and participate successfully in the very global economy that was set up by the colonial masters specifically to exploit alkebulan(and other so-called third world countries) with impunity and expidiency? and also do so using state models that were also design to support an economy of extraction to the economic benefit of the colonialists?

Oh you imbeciles are looking at bewildering recent economic developments of some asian countries as some sort of sign that it's possible for every other nation to tow the line of modernism by implementing sound policies and good work ethic? Don't be fooled you white washed negro. These asian states are developing because the elite minority(mostly so-called jews) who own and control vast amounts of finacial capital and technology have given the go ahead. They call the shots. Besides it's not even possible for every nation to industrialize; the earth's carring capacity will be quickly surmounted and inevitable catastrophy will arrive much quicker.

So it's not about alkebulanites "getting up, dusting off and jumping into the game with their all" but it's about how the program of globalization was constructed and who plays what role.

The only way forward is complete uncompromising severance of all ties with these white devils and their asian/arab cousins and cohorts.

Let's look within and deal amongst ourselves in the continent and the diaspora. We must reconnect with our land, Gods and ancestors.

Alkebulan can be self-sufficient and will do so only after you white washed ass licking negros are caught of from the family. Be ready.

My own take is that colonialism has its drawbacks and merits: The disintegration of family units as per relocation to various cities in search of greener pastures is caused by colonialism.

But the missionaries brought the Word of God to us. Thank God for that!

yes it was good for nigeria, but we failed to build on it. look at nepa, the railway e.t.c for example, we failed to build on them and see what they have turned to.

NO!

(and I'm not reading all this bullshit)

The CAUCASIANS historically DESTROY, PLUNDER, IMPOVERISH, KILL, AND SUBJEGATE ALL people they have came in contact with.
The American Indians (over 300 tribes)  Almost wiped out
The Asian Indians
The Africans
The Australian Aborigiones
etc.

White historicall people DO NOT SHARE!!!!!!!!!

THEY ONLY TAKE!!!!
If you think they brought their bullshit religions, books, language, gunz, alcohol, and fake ass materalism is something to BEHOLD - you are FOOLISH!!!!!***********************

Debeers got the S. African Diamonds
The Dutch, British took the Kenyans, Zambians, Zimbabwe's BEST LAND, etc.

**************

If the caucasians came to trade of equal value then Africa would have risen EQUALLY or GREATER than Amerikka and Europe.

Instead EUROPEANS KEPT THEIR BOOT ON THE AFRICAN THROATS!!!!!!!!!!!!

then turn tribes against each other, you know the rest.

Today, they COLONIZE africa by lending them MONEY then selling them services they DO NOT NEED.

You think 419er's were scammers, the IMF/WORLDBANK IS MAKING A KILLIN' off africans debt.

Colonialism was good for Africa - Jan Lamprecht

>Colonialism was the best thing that ever happened to
>Africa. Colonialism brought peace to the 300 warring
>tribes of Africa. Colonialism for Africa meant more
>development than it had ever known - before or after
>colonialism.
>
>Colonialists brought far more into Africa than took
>out of it. It is for that reason that most world
>empires easily let go of the continent, with only
>white settlers opposing black rule. From London,
>Lisbon and Brussels, Africa is totally useless. Local
>white settlers understood the destruction the end of
>colonialism would bring into their lives, but for
>Europeans, colonialism was a waste of money and
>resources.
>
>The standard of living in Africa under colonialism has
>not been matched even despite billions of dollars of
>annual aid to the continent from white countries. Why
>is South Africa the powerhouse of Africa? Answer: More
>whites lived in South Africa than any place else, and
>white rule ended only 13 years ago.
>
>As whites (and Asians) were kicked out, the
>continent's collapse accelerated. When Robert Mugabe
>took away farms and other property from Zimbabwean
>whites, he pulled the rug from under his country's
>economy. This year, inflation is expected to reach
>4,000 per cent.
>
>Other excellent examples are: Mozambique and Angola.
>
>Africa's the richest continent on Earth when it comes
>to natural resources. Parts of Africa have staggering
>fertility. A friend of mine went to Rwanda. He told me
>the ground there is so fertile, the climate so wet and
>warm you can literally plant a stick anywhere and it
>will grow.
>
>The question that must, therefore, be asked is: why
>are blacks starving in the land of milk and honey? Why
>is Japan the 2nd richest nation on Earth and yet it
>has no natural resources, and is far from its
>suppliers and markets? Answer: The Japanese people.
>
>Intelligent people achieve great things. That is why
>East Asia is doing so well (except for hardcore
>communist states such as North Korea). Clever people,
>even in unfavorable conditions, are capable of doing
>well.
>
>Africa made two mistakes: (1) Expelling whites; and
>(2) adopting Socialist type models.
>
>(1) White people are ingenious and hard-working. Their
>main contribution is ability to organize and that is
>what brought prosperity to Africa. Whites contribute
>out of all proportion to their small numbers.
>
>(2) Blacks have been adopted by communists, Marxist,
>socialists, leftists and liberals - and most of these
>people believe in some form of government handouts and
>drive blacks towards socialism. Unfortunately
>communism doesn't work anywhere in the world - so why
>should it work in Africa?
>
>The most successful experiment in black capitalism
>I've ever seen occurred in the mid-1980S in South
>Africa under apartheid. President PW Both changed
>laws and allowed a black taxi industry to exist. In my
>view it is the single most successful experiment in
>black capitalism that ever occurred on the face of
>this planet. That model, if expanded, upon could be
>the future of Africa and could provide hope for black
>people everywhere.
>
>The problem is that blacks prefer the dreams of a
>socialist government giving them everything rather
>than working to improve their fate. And whites are not
>the first to come here anyway. All across southern
>Africa is evidence of (Southeast) Indians sailing here
>and mining gold, hundreds of years before whites came.
>Indians came, mined gold and took it away. The Great
>Zimbabwe ruins is nothing more than an Indian temple
>built in Africa (as propounded in a recent theory by
>an academic in South Africa and shown to be consist
>with similar temples in India). Evidence of an Indian
>presence here is myriad.
>
>Colonialism worked. Foreign aid has not. Handouts to
>Africa achieved little or nothing and will continue to
>achieve little or nothing. Colonialism did what foreign
>aid cannot - run Africa efficiently.
>
>Instead of pumping money into Africa, Europe pumped
>skilled people into Africa,who came and repeated in
>Africa what was done in Europe. By having them build
>and organise, as well as bring science and
>engineering, colonialists built Africa.
>
>Anti-colonialism is leftist bunk that has now become
>agreed upon as the "politically correct" version of
>history.
>
>*Culled from globalpolitician.com

Colonialism was a blessing. Colonialism (and it's attendant oppression) is a force of Nature and development. There isn't a single civilisation that has ever risen up without experiencing one form of oppression or colonisation.

@Op -   I am not going to analyse the merits/demerits of colonialism. I'll leave it to the 'happy contented' Nigerian pseudo-intellectual.

50 years is relatively long enough for any sane responsible people to get their 'Act' together. Nigerians/Africans have perfected the art of 'EXCUSES', spurious Reasons for shocking IRRESPONSIBILITY, INACTION and LAZINESS. When are the so called NIGERIANS going to take 'Responsibility'?. Nigerians always blame the 'other'- devil, witch, 'youthful' age of the country, religion(Islam/Christianity) colonialist, 'tribe(s)' but self/leadership. It's just too easy and comforting to blame the unseen 'other'. Whenever one listens to a Nigerian the words God this, God that or God willing is never ending in their speech/conversation. It is very rare to hear purposeful, resolute statements for 'Action' or 'mission statements'. 'Fatalism' is so normal. Do Nigerians not have 'GOALS', VISION or attainable Aspiration for SELF as a 'nation'/people? Are the Nigerian 'elite' conscious/aware of the world around them? Do Nigerians have any sense of SHAME, OUTRAGE or have they become so inured to 'Bad' everything/Ugliness around them?

this thread is a disgrace to all Nigerians and African people. and a disgrace for the thousands and thousands of responsible men and women and children who fought and died for our freedom. They are rolling in their graves!!

we forget our history when we don't learn it and we are bound to repeat the same mistakes.
Still knocking my brain in amazement and can't believe what I'm seeing.


If life was so good and rosy under colonialism why did many Africans risk their lives to end it!!

i'm currently reading about colonialism (around the world and including Nigeria) and it baffles me to come on this thread and see these comments.
what it tells me is that there isn't a good history curriculum in Nigerian schools. and we know nothing about our past.

blackspade:

If you think stealing Africa's natural resources, segregating Africans in their homeland, and drawing up nations that ended up having civil wars because of previous cultural differences was good for Africa, than that's your demented view on things.

My opinion of Colonialism, is that it was the worst thing to happen to Africa after the Atlantic slave trade. Colonists embarked on our lands at first to gather slaves (sold by Africans, but still bad). Later on after the slave trade, many European nations partook in "The scramble for Africa", where they created colonies, and made indigenous Africans build their new societies, and at the same time making them live in townships outside of the city (in most cases). Irresponsible colonists also did no research when they decided to draw maps of these new colonies, and didn't think twice about who or what could happen if the two come together.

Many if not all civil wars in Africa can be blamed on the carelessness of colonists who decided to draw maps of countries that would fail in the future. For that one reason is why you have many African nations who have split ie. Mali, East Africa, Congo, etc. . . You also have former states like India which included Pakistan and Bangladesh at one point, but ended up splitting.

To conclude, the only good thing that came out of colonialism is the infrastructure it left when it was destroyed. The rest about colonialism, I absolutely hate, and wish it never happened. I also don't mind when "colonist descendent's" leave our lands en mass, ie. Afrikaners, Angolan-Portuguese, French Ghanaian, etc. . .

THANK YOU.
Fela will call it Kolomentality. It is very widespread and evident in this thread.

even the limited infrastructure was meant to facilitate resource extraction and I won't be surprised if only british and few Nigerian subjects were allowed to enjoy them.  This was the case in many parts of Africa.

Jenifa[/b]_:

i'm currently reading about colonialism (around the world and including Nigeria) and it baffles me to come on this thread and see these comments.
[b]what it tells me is that there isn't a good history curriculum in Nigerian schools. and we know nothing about our past.

@Jenifa- Welcome to the 'good education' most Nigerians receive. Is it any wonder our 'quasi-knowledge' of history is from Fela's songs/music .
No need to be baffled, it's a true reflection of the 'state of the Nation'-Nigeria/Confusion
Everything in Nigeria must have 'Immediate' monetary value or else it's of no value to the Nigerian, including 'History' as a subject. To the average Nigerian it's not 'tangible' let alone 'Serious'/ 'Important' Education/Knowledge is in 'decline' and Ignorance is celebrated .