We argue about the pros and cons so we do not make the mistakes of the past.  All the countries and cities you mentioned nosa101 learned to incoporated the "pros" of colonialism and are embracing progress.  So we can start by accepting the "pros" and going from there.  I don rest oh for front of my lap top!

Debating and cultural society, Go on Guys.

Me I wan talk my own;
Our main problems in Nigeria today has less to do with our Colonial masters but more to do with us (we ourselves and our leaders).
Of the 3 greatest problems in Nigerian history:1) Corruption. 2) Incompetence (governments). 3) Wars and Disease.

NONE of these problems were caused MOSTLY by our Colonial masters, but by us; we Nigerians.
We need not focus on another man’s country and what he did/didn’t do for us in the past but on how we can improve our own country.
She is my primary concern, it should be yours.

Amen ToTochopper, (na wah for your name oh)! I blush as I even type your screen name. May God forgive me. Anyway, Amen to you because you talk am right! We are our own worst enemies not the colonialists!

While colonialism has been blamed for the influx of materialism in Africa, lets not forget that social class existed in the pre-colonial era. The Osu's aka the untouchable were outcasts in the Ibo society, an unfortunate social divide that exists uptil today. Now, in the Church, every child that accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of their life is not a slave, but an adopted child of God. Read Things Fall Apart on the reaction of one man, who had to resign his membership from his Church, when the Church extended an invitation to Osus. Not even the pastor's explanation that God does not discriminate could erase his archaic views about the Osu.

If You people can believe that the rape of our resources by England for more than 70 years did not do any damage, then I guess military rule for 14 years did far less damage.

Lemme put it this way, a hausa malam was made to pay tax to queen elizabeth for owning cattle.
British Agricultural companies employed farmers and payed them low wages exported the goods to England and earned profits which they later took to England too after colonialism, yet the farmers who recieved those low wages still payed taxes again to Alaye Elizabeth I I. And also, be reminded that all the land and therefore the resources in Nigeria belonged to the Omonile Queen Elizabeth too.
The only reason Britain and France left us was due to the World War 2 agreement that Russia and the US forced them to enter before they would help end the war. The agreement proposed freeing up the colonies for free trade and relationship with all nations if not we would have lived to know what colonialism is really about, we would have seen the real colour of apatheid. Some of us would have been in Iraq now fighting for England. A war we know nothing about. Just like our grandfathers were sent to fight to protect the Asian empires during world war 2.

Una never know wetin colonialism really be.

The question was, "Was Colonisation Good for Africa" and the answere is no
Millions of Igbos wouldnt have died in the Biafra war if we werent butched up in an artificial country.
The same goes with Rwanda (Tutsis and Hutsis)
What about the oppression black south africans faces for centruries in their own homeland

Coloniastion drives a people backword and that is a fact

Look at Thailand, there was no colonisation there
and that small country is doing better than the whole of Africa combined

i am commenting based on the fact that people are entitled to their opinions here.
our major problem with colonialism is the rape of our natural resources according a writter here but my question to that is; were we aware of the existance of the so called natural resources? to what extent were the so called natural resource relevant to our society in the per-colonial africa? and how far have we gone since independence with the so-called natural resources?
the plain and bitter truth about it all is that there is no possiblity of any colonial master to be in nigeria till date without power supply above other basic needs of life.
if any of us here know about ethiopia, he/she would be quick to accept that the colonised african countries are better off.
come to the think of it, is the human cargo worse than the killing of twins?
the most important thing is that colonialism had come and gone yet africans especially leaders are still behaving as if we are not ripe to lead ourselves.
look at the governance in africa, it is like a group of coursed people who are out to kill and die to lead. people killing just to be leaders. people dying just to be on seat forever. people who are not ready to quit even when they know the people are tired of them.
technologies and religions came with colonialism and if we compare and contrast, i am always in a haste to say colonialism was the best thing that happened to africa and the worst thing was our quick discharge of the colonial masters.
i still want to remind all of us here that south africa, the only europe in afria is a product of colonialism, Abidjan popularly known as peti-paris( meaning small paris) is a product of colonialism.
africans can now enjoy a few minutes travels against months on legedez benz.
our women can now choose who to marry against the cultural slavary which will force her to marry to a 100 years man who the family is indebted to(lol). people can now communicate from their villages to america via telephone.
events can be viewed live for unimaginable distance live and direct.
if i may ask, is it better that our natural resources lay waste instead of someone coming to take some and expose others to us?
i still think colonialism was good but like seun said, it is time to move forward but our leaders need to be re-colonised at least to understand the meaning of leadership. knowing the best time to quit as that is the most important thing to avoid over-staying welcome.

Na wah O! These Oyibo people will not have any problems during the second colonialism at all. Our fellow brothers will welcome them, feed them and arm them.

My dear brother, the fact that your father left you a trust fund while you were still a baby, thereby unaware of it does not give your uncle the right to snatch it from you.

Secondly, you do not need to be colonised and raped before technology can be shared or sold to you.

Thirdly, why do you think Countries that resisted colonialism or dismantled in from their system are among the two most prosperous countries in the world even more prosperous than the colonialists themselves?

I no fit shout. For Those of you that favour colonialism, before the second colonialism, we will carve out a space in Africa for you and tell the colonialists where to find you.

And by the way, how do you mean "they brought religion". So we didn't have religion? Abeg rephrase to "they brought their religion"

thank you my brother and theire was judiasm in africa before coloniasm as well as our own
it just comes to show the disease black people have "everything white is good"
Like i said, somebody please tell me why Thailand is better than all of africa, THEY WERE NOT COLONIZED

Saudi Arabia sef, why are they doing better than colonized Nigeria.

i disagree, colonialism was bad bad bad for Nigeria .No need to elaborate in my opinion

ebeledi:

thank you my brother and theire was judiasm in africa before coloniasm as well as our own
it just comes to show the disease black people have "everything white is good"
Like i said, somebody please tell me why Thailand is better than all of africa, THEY WERE NOT COLONIZED

thank u o! and even the UAE that chidichris is writting from.
its unfortunate that some people do not have a clue. since when is oppression (in every sense of the word) good for anything or anyone? These people are the cause of most of our problems especially the nigerian civil war. for anyone who cares, go and rean 'the biafra story' it was an eye opener for me.

Yes.
Nigeria has $40Billion in Foreign reserve and are the happiest people in the world.

@babasin

Abi? We are very lucky indeed! With those qualities you mentioned, Nigeria should be among the G8 nations!

In fact, you people that are yet to make up your mind about the advantage or disadvantage of colonialism should first kneel fox and thank Hitler. If not for his second world war Britain and France would not have negotiated with the US and Russia over freeing their colonies. If not, we for still dey COLO!

Haile Hitler!

Without colonialism, Nairaland wouldn't have existed
Well, as they say, ignorance is bliss, sometimes, would we care more about technology, high standard of living, materialism if it werent for colonialism?

all other countries that were not colonized are surviving.

xkape said:

You cannot explain away the genetic nature of human traits in a bid to protect yourself from percieved inferiority or superiority
Some people will always be better at some things than others simple. wether by nature or by nuture. if you're so convinced it is nuture then we should nuture our children so they can dominate the world instead of staying here m,aking excuses for ourselves
Anytime someone points out the backwardness of the black race in terms of technology, someone points out Egypt
1. There is no proof that the people of ancient egypt were a homogenous group of negroid africans. In fact evidence sucjh as hairs obtained fromhundreds of mummies suggest otherwise. a black mans hair cannot lie can it? At best ancien egyptians were a mixed race group with different races achieving dominance over centuries
2. much  of the culture and civilization of ancient egypt was obtained from ancient phoenicians and other meditereanean groups who are definitely not black.
3. the kingdoms of zimbabwe were dfinitely unique among african kingdoms interms of the grandeur of their buildings but this was not sustained over the centuries nor did it spread effectively to the rest of black africa.

I've never read so much ignorant rubbish in my entire life, made even worse by coming from an African.

Listen up Mr. You know absolutely NOTHING about Ancient Egypt.

The name which the Egyptians called their country was KEMET (Black nation). They called themselves KEMMUI (blacks). On inscriptions at the temple of Edfu, they report that they ''came from the south''. That they were led to Egypt by the God Horus. (The Orisha, Lisa, Olisah, Oliseh pantheons of African religion are descended from Horus-at. The full name of the deity.)

All the ancient Greek historians, Aristotle, Diodorus of Sicily, Plato, reported that the Egyptians were ''very black'' ''with wooly hair''.

The practices of the Ancient Egyptians are mirrored in contemporary African societies - divinity of kings, matrilineal succession, bride price, circumcision, festivals, oracles, shrines, pouring of libation, masquerades etc.

There is no other region of the world most of these things are practised but in black Africa.

Is it linguistics? The Wolof language today spoken in Senegal is said to be a virtual carbon copy of the ancient Egyptian language Mdu Ntr (pronounced Medu Neter).

Cheikh Anta Diop, eminent African historian, researched and published inter alia, stunning congruences between Medu Neter and other West African languages, as did Olumide Lucas with regard to the Yoruba language.

For instance Dwarf in Yoruba is called Danga.

Dwarf in Ancient Egyptian? Danga!

Water in AE: Miri

Water in Yoruba: (O-mi)

Water in Igbo: Miri

There are numerous other congruences.

Many ethnic groups in West Africa and beyond have a tradition of ancient migration from the Nile Valley. Oduduwa for instance is believed to have fled Egypt with his folllowers to avoid conversion to Islam when the Jihadists stormed the empire in 600 AD.

TRUTH IS - BLACK PEOPLE CIVILIZED THE WORLD.

By the way, in ancient times, all of Africa south of Egypt was known as Ethiopia. Kush (or Nubia) was also a powerful black kingdom in present day Sudan whose pyramids are OLDER than those of Egypt.


The Ancient Chronicles   
 

The KJV Bible
   And the sons of Ham; Cush (Nubia), and Mizraim (Egypt), and Punt (East Africa), and Canaan (Palestine).  And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.  He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.    And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.  Genesis 10:6-10

   And they (the sons of Judah upon entering Canaan) found fat pasture and good, and the land was wide, and quiet, and peaceable; for they of Ham had dwelt there of old.  (Perhaps why the biblical curse on Canaan was invoked, for the Semites had long coveted this land.)  I Chronicles 4:40

   Israel also came into Egypt; and Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham, They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt; wondrous works in the land of Ham, and terrible things by the Red Sea. Psalms 105:23, 106:21-22

   And the lord said, like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia.  For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.  Isaiah 20:3, 43:3

   And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down.  Ezekial 30:4

   (Pharaoh's daughter)  I am black, and comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon. Song of Solomon  1

   Ethiopia and Egypt were her strength and it was infinite. Nahum 3:9

Kebra Nagast (Ethiopian bible - "The Glory of Kings"
   Solomon has taken a wife not of his color, who is moreover black, for he has married the daughter of Pharaoh.


The Greek Chronicles

Herodotus (Known in trhe west as the Father of History)

Origins of the Oracle of Dodona

'' At Dodona, however, the priestesses who deliver the oracles have a different version of the story: two black doves, they say, flew away from Thebes in Egypt, and one of them alighted at Dodona, the other in Libya (Africa), The story which the people of Dodona tell about the doves came, I should say, from the fact that the women were foreigners, whose language sounded to them like the twittering of birds, As to the bird being black, they merely signify by this that the woman was Egyptian. -book II

Colchians are of Egyptian Descent
   But it is undoubtedly a fact that the Colchians are of Egyptian descent, My own idea on the subject was based on the fact that they have black skins and wooly hair, and secondly, and more especially, on the fact that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians are the only races which from ancient times have practiced circumcision. -book II

Aristotle
   Those who are too black are cowards, like for instance, the Egyptians and Ethiopians.  But those who are excessively white are also cowards as can be seen from the example of women, the complexion of courage is between the two - Physiognomy, 6

Diodorus of Sicily

Origins of the Egyptians

''The Ethiopians say that the Egyptians are one of their colonies, which was led into Egypt by Osiris.  They claim that at the beginning of the world Egypt was simply a sea but that the Nile, carrying down vast quantities of loam from Ethiopia in its flood waters, finally filled it in and made it part of the continent, They add that the Egyptians have received from them, as from authors and their ancestors, the greater part of their laws.'' -Universal History, book

More from Diodorus of Sicily - Ancient Greek Historian.

Diodorus devoted an entire chapter of his world history, the [i]Bibliotheke Histo[/i]rica, or Library of History (Book 3), to the Kushites ["Aithiopians"] of Meroe. Here he repeats the story of their great piety, their high favor with the gods, and adds the fascinating legend that they were the first of all men created by the gods and were the founders of Egyptian civilization, invented writing, and given the Egyptians their religion and culture. (3.3.2).

"Now they relate that of all people the Aithiopians [Ethiopians] were the earliest, and say that the proofs of this are clear. That they did not arrive as immigrants but are the natives of the country and therefore rightly are called authochthonous is almost universally accepted. That those who live in the South are likely to be the first engendered by the earth is obvious to all. For as it was the heat of the sun that dried up the earth while it was still moist, at the time when everything came into being, and caused life, they say it is probable that it was the region closest to the sun that first bore animate beings".

Diodorus continues:

"They further write that it was among them that people were first taught to honor the gods and offer sacrifices and arrange processions and festivals and perform other things by which people honor the divine. For this reason their piety is famous among all men, and the sacrifices among the Aithiopians are believed to be particularly pleasing to the divinity,"

"The Aithiopians [Ethiopians] say that the Egyptians are settlers from among themselves and that Osiris was the leader of the settlement.The customs of the Egyptians, they say, are for the most part Aithiopian, the settlers having preserved their old traditions. For to consider the kings gods, to pay great attention to funeral rites, and many other things, are Aithiopian practices, and also the style of their statues and the form of their writing are Aithiopian. Also the way the priestly colleges are organized is said to be the same in both nations. For all who have to do with the cult of the gods, they maintain, are [ritually] pure: the priests are shaved in the same way, they have the same robes and the type of scepter shaped like a plough, which also the kings have, who use tall pointed felt hats ending in a knob, with the snakes that they call the asp (aspis) coiled round them."

"There are also numerous other Aithiopian tribes [i.e. besides those centered at Meroe]; some live along both sides of the river Nile and on the islands in the river, others dwell in the regions that border on Arabia [i.e. to the east], others again have settled in the interior of Libya [i.e. to the west]. The majority of these tribes, in particular those who live along the river, have black skin, snub-nosed faces, and curly hair".

(Diodous Siculus, Bibliotheke, 3. Translated by Tomas Hagg, in Fontes Historiae Nubiorum, vol. II: From the Mid-Fifth to the First Century BC (Bergen, Norway, 1996)

So there we have it. In remote times, BLACK PEOPLE in antiquity were the foremost civilizers, educators, mathematicians, physicians, poets, and scientists on the planet. For thousands of years before there was ANY western civilization, African empires had risen and fallen. By the time the white man stirred out of his cave in Greece in 800 BC, the pyramids were already ancient relics.

Already a collector's item.

I studied the religions of Hinduism and Buddhism and to my surprise I discovered that the early depictions of Krishna and Buddha were of BLACK NEGROID MEN.

Some feel these were ancient Egyptian priests sent to those places on civilizing missions and later deified in those regions.

The world has an awful lot to thank black people for.

Additionally, in light of the foregoing, where we've seen the REAL history of blacks as unencumbered by contemporary western obfuscation and lies, it becomes all the more absurd to hear such things as ''blacks cannot rule themselves'' coming from WHITE people.

People who were children when we were grown ups, civilizing the world and inventing things.

The world really has turned upside down.

But Jen, We do not live 2000 years or 800 years ago, we are speaking of TODAY.

I was referring to xcape or whatever who wrote that Ancient Egypt was 'not black'.

I simply had to educate him.

As per the time period you mentioned, well that's not really the point. If anything it goes to show that blacks are extremely capable not just of self-governance, but of wide-ranging progress.

We do not need colonised, brainwashed people of today telling us otherwise.

Jen33:

I was referring to xcape or whatever who wrote that Ancient Egypt was 'not black'.

I simply had to educate him.

As per the time period you mentioned, well that's not really the point. If anything it goes to show that blacks are extremely capable not just of self-governance, but of wide-ranging progress.

We do not need colonised, brainwashed people of today telling us otherwise.

We were strong and able to do it all on our own. And then somewhere we lost all that and found ourselves colonized and now we are no longer colonized. It has been over 47 years now in NIgeria alone and you know what the situation is. We have in almost 50 years of decolonization been killing each other.

Good for Nigeria.

You had better call them back so we can have KingsWay Mall again.

Kobojunkie said:

We were strong and able to do it all on our own. And then somewhere we lost all that and found ourselves colonized and now we are no longer colonized. It has been over 47 years now in Nigeria alone and you know what the situation is. We have in almost 50 years of decolonization been killing each other.

Depends on what you mean by 'killing each other'. People kill each other in every country. It's just a question of degree. 47 years is really not a long time at all, particularly when set against the length of time the nations you're comparing us with have been independent.

And it's not been ALL bad news since independence. The British who ruled for 60 odd years failed to build a single full fledged university in the country. Today we have over a 100 unis. Literacy rate at independence was 5%. Today its closer to 70% owing to massive investment in education by Nigerian leaders.

Back in the days of British rule, they say we were 'more content'.

But of course we would be 'content'. There was no electricity, but no one complained, since most had no experience of it.

There were few motorable roads, but none complained, because there were virtually no cars to drive.

There were very few hospitals, but none complained, since most were used to the herbalist anyway.

Today we have all these infrastructure on the ground, power lines, roads, schools, hospitals, not sufficient, but still there, unlike what obtained in the past.

So we ARE moving forward. It's not as if the British could not have done all those things. They just chose not to.

Unlike Nigerian leaders.

I'll say NO. . .
colonialism is the problem Africa is having today. The white people merged enemies into one country. Except two agree they cannot work together. . . Most, if not all the wars fought in Africa have tribal undertones.


The people claim they brought christianity and education but i say we had our own education even if it was crude. They just came and ruined our lives and today we can't stand because of the monsters ( countries) they created.

Seun,
Ethiopia was not colonised by any country so tell me which of the colonised countries that is less developed than ethiopia.
south africa today is the no 1 in africa and has the european standard and we can all testify that the longer the whites stayed the better the country.
by the way, if britain was still in nigeria till date(though not possible) there is no way we can be under darkness, getting used to bad roads and lack security to the last word.
if we are talking about colonisation, we shld be able to differentiate from the western colonial rule and the self colonial rule.
how do we express the situation in Zimbabwe? is there any form of colonialism that could have strecthed to that extent.
we have to be able to differentiate between ideological issues and realities.
the rate of insecurity in nigeria could be more deadly than colonialism. our april polls can't be experienced in a colonial era no matter how bad they colonial masters are.
if there is a way of bringing the colonial masters back, i will be at the forefront of such efforts

Any bonafide African who says colonialism was good for Africa have to be examined for mental illness. This same topic was discussed on BBC WHYS a few days ago, I was surprised that some Africans due to their current position in life could ever support colonialism in any way, the only real legacy of the generation that fought it.

The main problem is that most Africans only think for today, they don't care about the even the nearest future, not to talk of the future of their children. Many of those saying colonialism was good in some aspect were actually among the generation that betray the African continent and put the future of the current generation in jeopardy by cooperating with the former colonial masters to continue the exploitation of our resources to the benefit of the former colonial masters and for the satisfaction of their personal material interest. Those who were not with them continue to sit and talk doing nothing or take up guns and become unrealistic rebels with no clearly defined goals and objectives, thereby increasing the suffering of the ordinary people (those who don't or pretend not to know what is going on).

Colonialism was not good and will never be good. Among all the countries who have been former colonies, it is only people from Sub-Saharan African countries that have ever talk about colonialism being good, we are like the Israelites in the wilderness, those who continue to talk about going back to Egypt must be careful otherwise they will never reach the promise land.

They must stop thinking backwards and start to think and work towards a brighter future and stop talking sh1t when they are abroad.

Those talking about Ethiopia must remember that they are more stable despite their wars with the Italians in a bid to maintain their independence, until the bloody coup led by Mengistu Haile Mariam in which the Emperor was overthrown and very likely by checking the surrounding circumstances the coup was sponsored by one of the world-powers.

So, to those who want to be slaves for their entire lives, I wish they will stop criticising everthing African.

chidichris:

south africa today is the no 1 in africa and has the european standard and we can all testify that the longer the whites stayed the better the country.

Ok like seriously, SA is the worst example for your case.

Jen33:


Kobojunkie said:

Depends on what you mean by 'killing each other'. People kill each other in every country. It's just a question of degree. 47 years is really not a long time at all, particularly when set against the length of time the nations you're comparing us with have been independent.

And it's not been ALL bad news since independence. The British who ruled for 60 odd years failed to build a single full fledged university in the country. Today we have over a 100 unis. Literacy rate at independence was 5%. Today its closer to 70% owing to massive investment in education by Nigerian leaders.

Back in the days of British rule, they say we were 'more content'.

But of course we would be 'content'. There was no electricity, but no one complained, since most had no experience of it.

There were few motorable roads, but none complained, because there were virtually no cars to drive.

There were very few hospitals, but none complained, since most were used to the herbalist anyway.

Today we have all these infrastructure on the ground, power lines, roads, schools, hospitals, not sufficient, but still there, unlike what obtained in the past.

So we ARE moving forward. It's not as if the British could not have done all those things. They just chose not to.

Unlike Nigerian leaders.

My Response to your post is this?? WHAT You just gave us a lecture on how for ages, the black man practically ruled the world and built this and that. I mention we are killing each other as in literally killing each other and I am not comparing us to any other country at all when I say that. Fraud every where you look, the poor getting poorer and the rich killing to stay rich at all cost. I mean please stay with Nigeria where it is and see that the problem we have today is nothing to do with colonization at least.

You mentioned colonial days, yes the british did not build and they have their reasons. One would have to do extensive research to understand the reason for this but I dare not focus on the invaders as much as I should on the invaded and their current state today. Going by your post about how strong the black man was before the invasion. What happened to that strength just before and after the invasion? There are countries in the same africa that were never really colonized but are doing even worse and there are those that were and are doing really well.

Champred,
yes i accept to be examined mentally because existing in nigeria alone worth going for mental test.
we are 47 years old accepting the fact that we can not reverse the colonisation but what has happened within the 47 years of idenpendence?
is it possible that people of normal mentality like you preffer darkness for light?
the bottom line is that some people are still-born and whenever there is a premature delivery, it calls for incubator. we are not yet matured enough to take care of ourselves.
in words, we do not need the whites but in practice, how many of us in nairaland are based in nigeria? how many of our so called leaders have their investments in nigeria or even other african countries? why do we continue depending on them? is it not obvious that most of our slogans are propoganda used by the so called elites to get our consents in driing away of the whites only to turn us into prey.
at the end of the day, the nigerian police is now inviting the british police to come and reform them. in which areas of our lives are we sound enough to handle?
Mugabe seeked the consents of the zimbabwians in sending the whites aways from zimbabwe and today he has turned to feed on the citizens and a waring country is better than zimbabwe but initial deciept showed he had the interests of his people at heart.
abacha will always remind the western world that nigerians can take care of themselves but in realities were we doing so?
we are afraid of the whites looting our resources but to what extent have these resources changed our lives on the positive side?
in a place where known thieves are rulers. in a place where people kill to rule. where results are announced before elections. a place where proffessors do unholy and inhumane things as we saw in Iwu's april polls.
for those with sound minds, i demand a count of blessings here because from my side of observations, we drove them from our places and followed them to their places to enslve ourselves by engaging ourselves in all forms of odd jobs just to make ends meet while the joy of our resources have ended up in the house of the few opportuned politicians.