Kay 17: Wiegraf did most of the work already. Hisblud obviously didn't understand what you said, and concluded "god is information." When you were asked what the creator of God spirit, you didn't direct any effort on the question ok, start with 1+1=2 and trace it to its source.

You're the one who didn't understand this thread.
Why wiegraf didn't come back and reply me post?

You equate God with information Yes! You're right because He's the first information generator.

What you fail to know and the bone of my contection is all living things carried INFORMATION in their DNA, who wrote them?

According to the law of information "purely materials cannot generate information" meaning materials cannot generate immaterials that is only immaterials that can generate immaterials that's why human being can generate a meaningful code.

So far DNA & CELLS carry information it must surely be written by immaterials (spirit). GOD IS SPIRIT

You don't know the source of 1+1=2, and you call youself a science student.

I put it to you as an assignment, who are the founder of mathematics?

^^
That's more logic with 2 restricted outcomes(positive and negative), however I'm speaking of intuitive mathematical truths and their Source

Kay 17: ^^
That's more logic with 2 restricted outcomes(positive and negative), however I'm speaking of intuitive mathematical truths and their Source

Again define what is intuitive mathematical truth let me see, I don't want to help you on that.

But you're claiming 1+1=2

You can see your Bro ooman & weigraf.

^^

Emsuan

Its either you have something to say or not. By intuitive maths I merely meant maths since everyone including babies can distinguish 1 orange from 2 oranges.

However I'm still expecting you to educate me on how maths was created.

Kay 17: ^^

Emsuan

Its either you have something to say or not. By intuitive maths I merely meant maths since everyone including babies can distinguish 1 orange from 2 oranges.

However I'm still expecting you to educate me on how maths was created.

You make me laugh sha.. Anyway we all here to learn a new thing like information you're hearing about now, and just have it at the back of your mind that nature consist three entities not two as atheist claim. Mass, Energy, and Information. Once you believe there something call information in nature you're not an atheist.

Back on point, the 1,2,3 or A,B,C you're using today do you think they fall from heaven. Is a general agreement between group of people which everybody comply with. Just like scientific law, do you think you can pass scientific law without second/third party verification and agreement?

You need to leave this your atheist life and ask God for more wisdom.

Proffdada:
1+1+1=1 boolean logic

Don't mind the guy.

Use information as your key point anytime you meet with an atheist. Thank.

Emusan:

Don't mind the guy.

Use information as your key point anytime you meet with an atheist. Thank.

They've been inspirational for me to draw closer to God

Proffdada:
They've been inspirational for me to draw closer to God

Likewise me too.
Please anytime you're talking about scientist always seperate them because we've creation scientist they believe in God and Bible, also other sicentists who didn't believe in God and Bible.

^^^two deluded iddiots

Emusan:

Likewise me too.
Please anytime you're talking about scientist always seperate them because we've creation scientist they believe in God and Bible, also other sicentists who didn't believe in God and Bible.

I love using their faithful science against them,that's their hope, they dont wanna think outta the box and adore the Wonderful Creator

ooman: ^^^two deluded iddiots

lol, you know its the truth and you are trying hard to spit the messenger but alas what a failure of your logic - that all is matter ie mass and energy. And what do you resort to insult becos your logic has been made illogical. @emusan and profda this information stuff has made this scripture to come alive

"Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" (1 Corinthians 1:20).

there foolishness has been made evident lol

I don't actually have time, but it seems you're still talking, inexplicably

Emusan:

Yes I said it. But why simple english is so difficult for you to understand? Did I use grammar in my post?

Get the clue once again, SOFTWARE is an information generated by intelligent source "human being" is already in your body(mass & energy) all you just need to do is to make it seen by writing it down and it works with physical machine. Because it is human code that has meaning, so they name it SOFTWARE try to check the definition of software and see.

Why are you using 'caustic' words? Again, do we look like imbe.ciles?

What you yourself have been saying is that SOFTWARE and SPIRIT are the same thing, only difference being the source (and perhaps complexity, but that is even arguable). But they are..again...the same.gadamn.thing. Your words.

Are they or are they not made of the same thing, abstractions/concepts/inforwhargarbl? SOFTWARE is SPIRIT too, just like you claim consciousness to be SPIRIT as well, SOFTWARE is just less complex. See? SOFTWARE is like a baby SPIRIT in your parlance. Consciousness is daddy SPIRIT

So again, all abstractions to you are SPIRIT. Or some are and others are not, why? Because you say so? Even if you say that you'll attach the word SPIRIT only to a certain level of sophisticated infowhargarbl, then in theory, one can write software that would be that sophisticated, or, Artificial Intelligence. See? Or would an AI not be software as well? SOFTWARE is SPIRIT.

Considering you have a 'clue' I don't know why I have to point this out.

Emusan:
*Note: information can only come from intelligent source/sender like human being and it has been discovered that the most complex and meaningful code has ever come from human.

Where do you get this drivel from? Ah, xtian sites.

Again, so, which intelligence wrote the first information? Which intelligent information was responsible for the first intelligent information?

Emusan:
See where you got it wrong, human's DNA is responsible for LIFE and it has also been comfirmed that they carry code billions times bigger than any present code this generation has ever generated. Then ask yourself who wrote those code? So human informations are called software gene (spirit) because they dont know how it came into an existence. Remember all information can be trace back to an intelligent source/sender.

As above, oh great genius. And look up simple things like the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life]game of life[/url] and fractals in nature (btw, do you notice DNA clearly listed there?). There's another thread floating around atm about complexity and patterns in nature evolving.

And please, game of life may require you to initially program it, but that's not the point. The point is to demonstrate how complex can evolve from simple. So, as long as simple, basic ingredients are available and interacting, given the time scales involved and other factors, complexity and patterns must evolve. You do not require an intelligence for anything. Simple can form complex, and indeed does so all around us in nature. Do you have a clue now?

Emusan:
It has been answered.

Where? Don't waste my time or try to judge.

Emusan:
This's the most logical & intelligent question ever asked on this thread. But here are your answers, the major argument here or anywhere in the world is that nature exist and how it came into and existence? 1) some says it happened by chance, 2) some says a supernatural force responsible for it, 3) and some says a SPIRIT (GOD) exist that cause the causes. Definitely one option must correct. The question now is, how individuals arrive at their final claim? The race begins, number 1) said at a point of sigularity for unknown reason something begins to expand causes our universe. Number 2) said somebody was coming with a chain from above and spread the universe. Number 3) said a SPIRIT (God) spoke and universe was made through His word.
*NOTE: there are many claims about the formation of the universe but I just give these three example.
Another question arise here, what support individual claim?
Again, Number 1) said nature consists of only matters (mass and energy) nothing like SPIRIT. Number 2) said through metaphysics everything was revealed. And Number 3) said the same SPIRIT reveal itself to some peoples through revelations and inspiration and everything was written down. Then we left with no conclusion because can we say individuals were wrong? No! But fact and prove hold the truth.

Now what hold the major fact is "INFORMATION". In 2006, Dr. Werner Gitt an information scientist for both human and machine language propose definition for information with other scientist and reach an agreement to be called Universal Definition of Information, UDI. Then UDI contains four attributes which I have explained. Then anything outside or lack one of these attributes is not regard as INFORMATION. Let me just quote some laws about information but I won't explain it, though they're more than these.
1) Purely materials can't generate information
2) All informations require a sender or must have an intelligent source/sender
3) Informations can't be generate through a statistical processes

One of the matters that made up earth is living thing i.e human being, with latest research it has been discovered that human's cells & DNA carry informations that resemble human code and find its way complied with four attributes of UDI. So for birds to stop flying, it needs a new informations in its DNA, for human to evolve from apelike need a set of information into its DNA e.t.c

Now that human being carried an information in its DNA, let ask ourselves these questions base on the quoted laws above.
*Since human has information in its DNA, who wrote those information? since all information can be trace back to an intelligent source/sender, L2
*How come human has information since information can't be generate from purely matters? L1
*If nature happen by CHANCE, how come human carry information? Since no amount of time and chance that can generate meaningful informations.

[/]Out of the assumption about formation of the universe through my explanation, which one do you think is most likely correct?[/b]

Just type your answer don't quote me.

I will reply the rest tomorrow.

Oh boy na wa... What flavor of whargarbl is this? Keep it short please, time....

wiegraf: I don't actually have time, but it seems you're still talking, inexplicably

You're back from searching & browsing the internet, you're welcome.

Why are you using 'caustic' words? Again, do we look like imbe.ciles?

Well, If you say so.

What you yourself have been saying is that SOFTWARE and SPIRIT are the same thing, only difference being the source (and perhaps complexity, but that is even arguable). But they are..again...the same.gadamn.thing. Your words.
Are they or are they not made of the same thing, abstractions/concepts/inforwhargarbl? SOFTWARE is SPIRIT too, just like you claim consciousness to be SPIRIT as well, SOFTWARE is just less complex. See? SOFTWARE is like a baby SPIRIT in your parlance. Consciousness[/] is daddy SPIRIT.

You need to leave this atheism and ask God for wisdom. Very simple explanation yet is difficult for you to digest. I won't repeat myself again because a 5years old baby can understand what I put up there.

But just let me say this, software & DNA code are both information and I have explained why SOFTWARE is called SOFTWARE and DNA code is called SPIRIT above.

Where did I use the word 'consciousness' in my post? Consciousness is an atheist word keep it to yourself.

Where do you get this drivel from? Ah, xtian sites.

Where do you get your own presupposition atheist site.

Again, so, which intelligence wrote the first information? Which intelligent information was responsible for the first intelligent information?

Without being sentimental, take a walk around the street and begin to ask people this question [b]"How the nature came into being"

I'm very sure you will get some response like 1) it happened by chance 2) God created it 3) somebody laid it e.t.c meaning it must surely attach to something, and I have explained individuals claim and what support their claims.

There's another thread floating around atm about complexity and patterns in nature evolving.

Information is not about complexity and patterns, INFORMATION is about meaningful code that's why anything outside its(information) four attributes is not regard as an information.

You do not require an intelligence for anything. Simple can form complex, and indeed does so all around us in nature. Do you have a clue now?

Have you read about Intelligent Design? even though they didn't attached it to a creator so there's something intelligence about nature not just patterns.

Oh boy na wa... What flavor of whargarbl is this? Keep it short please, time....

It hurt right?

hisblud: lol, you know its the truth and you are trying hard to spit the messenger but alas what a failure of your logic - that all is matter ie mass and energy. And what do you resort to insult becos your logic has been made illogical. @emusan and profda this information stuff has made this scripture to come alive there foolishness has been made evident lol

[size=15pt]never said that[/size]

Yes! If the earth was billion of yrs old, humans & animals would've drank it all up. We would have no oceans. If humans existed 4 billions of yrs like d Darwinists claim, we would 've ran out of air too.

ooman:
never said that

Then what is your claim and the laws that supported it?

Afterall scientist can't do without law!

ooman:

[size=15pt]never said that[/size]

you dont have to say it explicitly but implicitly you do. Ooman evaluate this and give your opinion - ALL atheist are naturalist, and naturalist believe in evolution which comprise of only matter. Do you agree or disagree?

hisblud: you dont have to say it explicitly but implicitly you do. Ooman evaluate this and give your opinion - ALL atheist are naturalist, and naturalist believe in evolution which comprise of only matter. Do you agree or disagree?

agree.

whatever information you think exist in nature in only a product matter, just like thoughts are products of the brain

ooman:
agree.

Again for you to agree nothing like atheist.

whatever information you think exist in nature in only a product matter,

Where did you put your brain when you're reading laws of information that says "purely materials can't generate information" now you're saying it's a product of matter

just like thoughts are products of the brain

Ooman! Thoughts are product of information because they're immaterials together with 'will'.

Emusan:
Again for you to agree nothing like atheist.


Where did you put your brain when you're reading laws of information that says "purely materials can't generate information" now you're saying it's a product of matter



Ooman! Thoughts are product of information because they're immaterials together with 'will'.

what nothing did i 'agree'?

well, your laws of information are wrong then

that is if your brain is immaterial, then you are right.

ooman:

agree.

whatever information you think exist in nature in only a product matter, just like thoughts are products of the brain

do you agree then information is immaterial

hisblud: do you agree then information is immaterial

normally, yes

as in dna, no

ooman:

normally, yes

as in dna, no

then as emusan said you are not an atheist. Do you agree

ooman:
what nothing did i 'agree'?

You agree that information is immaterials, then there's nothing like atheist because atheist don't believe in spirit.

well, your laws of information are wrong then
that is if your brain is immaterial, then you are right.

Who an I to give law (I'm not yet reach that level huh) for information. I know you've serached and browsed the internet very well if the laws of information I quoted are wrong, you would have quoted me wrong. Do your brain doesn't contain DNA?

normally, yes
in dna, no

Logical ooman! You like prolonging issue sha.. Why no in DNA?
Or do you mean DNA doesn't have information?

When you said you're coming back to this thread I thought you're coming to proof all the quoted laws wrong but I don't know you're with no tangible fact.

@ooman
Now that it has been proved to you scientifical that there's a creator who made heaven and earth try to amend your ways. He's 'able and just' to accept you back no matter what you have done. Isaiah 1:18 says "come now, and let us reason together (God is calling you & I), saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool forget about caustic words you have used against Him, He's ready to forgive you. 1 John 1:8-9 says "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and truth isn't in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrightousness.

There's no much time again decide now and be save, I know you're once a Christian but never mind He will accept you.

Hebrew 9:27 says "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement"

End time is around, I pray the Lord God will give us grace no to miss it in Jesus name. God loves you and I love you too. Join the gosple to move God's work forward. God bless you!

This is a thread that must not be allowed to go down. Lets keep it up bros

Emusan:
You agree that information is immaterials, then there's nothing like atheist because atheist don't believe in spirit.

of course information is immaterial. And all immaterial stuff we know of come from materials, therefore, god does not exist or he is made of matter.

THERE CANT BE INFORMATION WITHOUT SENDER, SINCE INFORMATION IS IMMATERIAL AND GOS IS ALSO IMMATERIAL, THERE CANT BE A GOD WITHOUT ITS CREATOR/SENDER TOO.

Emusan: Who an I to give law (I'm not yet reach that level huh) for information. I know you've serached and browsed the internet very well if the laws of information I quoted are wrong, you would have quoted me wrong. Do your brain doesn't contain DNA?

What does this have to do with wrong laws of information?

Emusan: Logical ooman! You like prolonging issue sha.. Why no in DNA?
Or do you mean DNA doesn't have information?

dna doesnt "have" information, it is information!

Emusan: When you said you're coming back to this thread I thought you're coming to proof all the quoted laws wrong but I don't know you're with no tangible fact.

your laws are laughable because rather than prove evolution wrong, they prove that god cannot exist. You just added another point to my already full pot of reasons why god cannot exist.

Thanks man

Emusan: @ooman
Now that it has been proved to you scientifical that there's a creator who made heaven and earth try to amend your ways. He's 'able and just' to accept you back no matter what you have done. Isaiah 1:18 says "come now, and let us reason together (God is calling you & I), saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool forget about caustic words you have used against Him, He's ready to forgive you. 1 John 1:8-9 says "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and truth isn't in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrightousness.

There's no much time again decide now and be save, I know you're once a Christian but never mind He will accept you.

Hebrew 9:27 says "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement"

End time is around, I pray the Lord God will give us grace no to miss it in Jesus name. God loves you and I love you too. Join the gosple to move God's work forward. God bless you!

what has been proved "scientifical"?

the only thing Emusan's thread helped me prove is that there cant be immaterial without material, information cannot send itself, there cant be a god, nature is all of material from which immaterial (which is only a delusion of material - will leave that for another time)stuff arise.

God CANNOT exist.

My last post was conveniently ignored

Emusan:

You make me laugh sha.. Anyway we all here to learn a new thing like information you're hearing about now, and just have it at the back of your mind that nature consist three entities not two as atheist claim. Mass, Energy, and Information. Once you believe there something call information in nature you're not an atheist.

Back on point, the 1,2,3 or A,B,C you're using today do you think they fall from heaven. Is a general agreement between group of people which everybody comply with. Just like scientific law, do you think you can pass scientific law without second/third party verification and agreement?

You need to leave this your atheist life and ask God for more wisdom.

LmAOo!! This is sad! So its your sincere belief that mathematics is what people agree about like languages? Unfortunately that's ignorant.

Mathematical truths are abstracts which are not agreed over nor created by anyone. They are immutable structures which the Universe itself is grew on. All human societies independently from one another, have had elaborate understanding of mathematics.

Information is likewise uncreated, how do you create a triangle eh? If you can create information, then you should be able to add as many sides or angles to a triangle as one wants, and it wld remain a triangle. Unfortunately it doesn't.

You spirit argument is shallow and inconsistent. Naturalism and Materialism do not argue against information, nor immaterial (Reason) or Cognition. It just your misconceived notions on Materialism.

Karl Marx said "I exist therefore I think" which simply places Materialism as the prerequisite foundation for even the immaterial to setup.

Emusan:

You to leave this atheism and ask God for wisdom. Very simple explanation yet is difficult for you to digest. I won't repeat myself again because 5years baby can understand what I put up there.

But just let me say this, software & DNA code are both information and I have explained why SOFTWARE is called SOFTWARE and DNA code is called SPIRIT above.

Where did I use the word 'consciousness' in my post? Consciousness is an atheist word keep it to yourself.

Brah, please endeavor to limit the retardation.

I have already acknowledged your reasons. You, on the other hand, I hope, have your brain working backwards. Else you're clearly trying to dodge as you avoid a simple question put up there.

So, this simple question; is AI SPIRIT or SOFTWARE? Answer it.

Also, are your SPIRITS conscious or not? If they are not conscious, then how in the hell are they any different from standard software?

Why am I pointing out things to you which you should know as you're the one selling this nonsense?

Emusan:
Where do you get your own presupposition atheist site.

That 'brain' thing I mention above.

Emusan:
Without being sentimental, take a walk around the street and begin to ask people this question "How the nature came into being"

I'm very sure you will get some response like 1) it happened by chance 2) God created it 3) somebody laid it e.t.c meaning it must surely attach to something, and I have explained individuals claim and what support their claims.

Maybe I should ask them if the moon is one giant loaf of bread as well. The &*^%^ does what other people have to say have do with this? Can you give an answer or not?

And we've all been ignoring this for a good while (just for giggle, I suppose), but what the hell kind of english is the italiced? What are you even trying to say? It makes no sense

Emusan:
Information is not about complexity and patterns, INFORMATION is about meaningful code that's why anything outside its(information) four attributes is not regard as an information.

And DNA is not meaningful? You did notice, after I even took time out to point it out, that DNA has fractal-like qualities, yes?

Emusan:
Have you read about Intelligent Design? even though they didn't attached it to a creator so there's something intelligence about nature not just patterns.

I've also read about mammy water and harry potter

Emusan:
It hurt right?

Yes it did, thank you good ser. I both wept and laughed at the folly on display....

Kay 17:

LmAOo!! This is sad! So its your sincere belief that mathematics is what people agree about like languages? Unfortunately that's ignorant.

Mathematical truths are abstracts which are not agreed over nor created by anyone. They are immutable structures which the Universe itself is grew on. All human societies independently from one another, have had elaborate understanding of mathematics.

Information is likewise uncreated, how do you create a triangle eh? If you can create information, then you should be able to add as many sides or angles to a triangle as one wants, and it wld remain a triangle. Unfortunately it doesn't.

You spirit argument is shallow and inconsistent. Naturalism and Materialism do not argue against information, nor immaterial (Reason) or Cognition. It just your misconceived notions on Materialism.

Karl Marx said "I exist therefore I think" which simply places Materialism as the prerequisite foundation for even the immaterial to setup.

We should talk about potential at some point. Though I've not fully formed ideas in my head yet, and I've not read any philosophy on the subject (probably won't, considering me..)