^^ yea we will pick out a day

ooman:

of course information is immaterial. And all immaterial stuff we know of come from materials, therefore, god does not exist or he is made of matter.

THERE CANT BE INFORMATION WITHOUT SENDER, SINCE INFORMATION IS IMMATERIAL AND GOS IS ALSO IMMATERIAL, THERE CANT BE A GOD WITHOUT ITS CREATOR/SENDER TOO.





What does this have to do with wrong laws of information?





dna doesnt "have" information, it is information!



your laws are laughable because rather than prove evolution wrong, they prove that god cannot exist. You just added another point to my already full pot of reasons why god cannot exist.

Thanks man

dear ooman, You contradicted the following laws of information and therefore you fail, i think you need to first of all prove that this 2 laws of information are invalid else all you wrote above is gibberish at best-

Fundamental Law 1 (FL1)
A purely material entity, such as physicochemical processes, cannot create a nonmaterial entity. (Something material cannot create something nonmaterial.)
Physical entities include mass and energy (matter). Examples of something that is not material (nonmaterial entity) include thought, spirit, and volition (will).
Fundamental Law 2 (FL2)
Information is a nonmaterial fundamental entity and not a property of matter.

ooman:

what has been proved "scientifical"?

the only thing Emusan's thread helped me prove is that there cant be immaterial without material, information cannot send itself, there cant be a god, nature is all of material from which immaterial (which is only a delusion of material - will leave that for another time)stuff arise.

God CANNOT exist.

wrong! Check the first law

Fundamental Law 1 (FL1)

A purely material entity, such as physicochemical processes, cannot create a nonmaterial entity. (Something material cannot create something nonmaterial.)

Physical entities include mass and energy (matter). Examples of something that is not material (nonmaterial entity) include thought, spirit, and volition (will).

therefore its wrong to assume that information is a subset of matter.

ooman:
of course information is immaterial. And all immaterial stuff we know of come from materials, therefore, god does not exist or he is made of matter.

THERE CANT BE INFORMATION WITHOUT SENDER, SINCE INFORMATION IS IMMATERIAL AND GOS IS ALSO IMMATERIAL, THERE CANT BE A GOD WITHOUT ITS CREATOR/SENDER TOO.

What does this have to do with wrong laws of information?

Go back to the OP/post and read the message about materials and immaterials/about the question wiegraf asked "who pass God information".

dna doesnt "have" information, it is information!

I put it to you, what is information?

your laws are laughable because rather than prove evolution wrong, they prove that god cannot exist. You just added another point to my already full pot of reasons why god cannot exist.

But you believe there's information in nature.

Kay 17:

LmAOo!! This is sad! So its your sincere belief that mathematics is what people agree about like languages? Unfortunately that's ignorant.

I have asked you before but let me ask you again Does mathematics has a founder?

Mathematical truths are abstracts which are not agreed over nor created by anyone. They are immutable structures which the Universe itself is grew on. All human societies independently from one another, have had elaborate understanding of mathematics.
Information is likewise uncreated, how do you create a triangle eh? If you can create information, then you should be able to add as many sides or angles to a triangle as one wants, and it wld remain a triangle. Unfortunately it doesn't.

See you! Wisdom is good ooo

I believe you know gravity it's nature force. Is it nature that provide the law of gravity?

What I'm saying in short is before 1,2,3, A,B,C, shapes being used some people have sat down an agreed on it. Chlorine is a gas in nature but is it nature that give it the name?

You spirit argument is shallow and inconsistent. [b]Naturalism and Materialism do not argue against information, nor immaterial (Reason) or Cognition. It just your misconceived notions on Materialism.

@bold- did I say they disagree? But they (naturalism/materialism) made us to know and agree over the years that nature consists only matters (mass/energy) which atheism, humanism, evolutionism based their believe. Where do you put your brain whenever you're reading.

Karl Marx said "I exist therefore I think" which simply places Materialism as the prerequisite foundation for even the immaterial to setup.

You skip laws of information try and reread it.

Artificial intelligence can be term artificial information which is a mimicking of real information in man. Now according to ooman, if the material can create the immaterial, is it the machine (matter) that created the software(immaterial) controlling it? No its a higher intelligence that put the 'software' in the machine. Extrapolate to information in man(matter), who put the information in man? Definately a Higher Information aka intelligence

@wiegraf I'm sorry I didn't reply your post.

In summary of my OP.

Over the years naturalism/materialism (which atheist, humanist, evolutionist derived their stand) made us to understand that nature consists only matters (mass/energy). Now information has been confirmed in nature i.e DNA with the laws of information make it clear that this information found in all living DNA is not as a result of evolvement or by chance (meaning these informations must have been passed by immaterials thing because materials cannot produce immaterials "according to laws of INFORMATION". The question now is "according to the law of information, materials cannot produce immaterials and nature consists only matters. Then, who wrote DNA information?

In Genesis 2:7 says "And the Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground (matters, but nothing happen), and He breath a breath of life (information, then something happen) into his nostrils, and the man became a living soul (everything in his system begin to function)". Why can't you accept this simple logic of formation of human rather than "apelike without any logical reasoning".

I have explain myself enough about INFORMATION an its four attributes. The answer I want now without twisting or prolonging issue is "DNA information was written by who?"

Emusan:
I have asked you before but let me ask you again Does mathematics has a founder?


See you! Wisdom is good ooo

I believe you know gravity it's nature force. Is it nature that provide the law of gravity?

What I'm saying in short is before 1,2,3, A,B,C, shapes being used some people have sat down an agreed on it. Chlorine is a gas in nature but is it nature that give it the name?


@bold- did I say they disagree? But they (naturalism/materialism) made us to know and agree over the years that nature consists only matters (mass/energy) which atheism, humanism, evolutionism based their believe. Where do you put your brain whenever you're reading.



You skip laws of information try and reread it.

Mr Emusan, you didn't seem to understand what I'm saying, forget about labels, focus on the concepts themselves. When I talk about mathematics or shapes, I'm not referring to the big names they carry, rather the concepts themselves.

hisblud: dear ooman, You contradicted the following laws of information and therefore you fail, i think you need to first of all prove that this 2 laws of information are invalid else all you wrote above is gibberish at best-

laws of human information do not apply to dna then!

hisblud: Artificial intelligence can be term artificial information which is a mimicking of real information in man. Now according to ooman, if the material can create the immaterial, is it the machine (matter) that created the software(immaterial) controlling it? No its a higher intelligence that put the 'software' in the machine. Extrapolate to information in man(matter), who put the information in man? Definately a Higher Information aka intelligence

yea, who put the information in the higher intelligence??

Emusan:
Go back to the OP/post and read the message about materials and immaterials/about the question wiegraf asked "who pass God information".


I put it to you, what is information?



But you believe there's information in nature.

nature itself is information!

ooman:

yea, who put the information in the higher intelligence??

accept it there is a higher Integelligence that precedes time itself

Proffdada:
accept it there is a higher Integelligence that precedes time itself

In the absence of time, how does this higher intelligence operate?

ooman:
laws of human information do not apply to dna then!

Will you park yourself aside?

When they formulate the four attributes of information do they limit it to human's alone? If it is another person now you'll have used all sort of childish words to qualify the person. You're just twisting yourself thinking you're smart. Anything outside or lack one of the attributes isn't an information.

yea, who put the information in higher intelligent

Another way of prolonging matter!
Whether you like it or not nature comes into an existence through one means not two means. Either it happen by chance or it was created. Which way you based your believe it must be a claim and what support your claim.

If I may ask at the point of singularity that nature was formed, who put the point there?

nature itself is information.

You can see how deluded you are! Why materialism didn't discover it on set? Again information is a spirit in nature and you don't believe in spirit. I know you don't have a concrete fact. You're just palying smart.

ooman:

laws of human information do not apply to dna then!

i sense some modifying here. Why are you saying 'human' information? Its law of information. Dna contains information. Is dna immaterial?

ooman:

yea, who put the information in the higher intelligence??

do you by this accept that the Higher Intelligence does exist and He placed it in man?

ooman:

nature itself is information!

is nature immaterial or material?

Kay 17:
In the absence of time, how does this higher intelligence operate?

Stop proving nosense here, go and read your Bible Job 14:1-end you will see when Job said "Even time is not HIDDEN from Him (God)".

Answer my question at the top.

hisblud: is nature immaterial or material?

The guy doesn't know what is saying.

hisblud: is nature immaterial or material?

The guy doesn't know what he's saying.

Emusan:

The guy doesn't know what he's saying.

hehe true, i wish he could just say the laws are false, showing evidence and i guess its difficult. Ooman let me give you a little hint, when clinton was president, some scientist hoped they were in the process of decoding the information in dna. Fast forward 10years, they are still at zero. So tell me, is dna just info or it contains information that Someone put there and they have not decoded it?

hisblud: hehe true, i wish he could just say the laws are false, showing evidence and i guess its difficult. Ooman let me give you a little hint, when clinton was president, some scientist hoped they were in the process of decoding the information in dna. Fast forward 10years, they are still at zero. So tell me, is dna just info or it contains information that Someone put there and they have not decoded it?

@bold- Likewise me too! I just allow them to be saying their rubish because no scientist ever prove INFORMATION wrong.

99:9% nairaland atheist/freethinker as they called themselves are INTERNET and TEXTBOOK atheist/freethinker yet they'll be ranting nonsense.

hisblud: is nature immaterial or material?

Both

ooman:
Both

Are you kiding me?
But atheist do claim only Matters (mass/energy).

Ooman, see your life outside.

Kay 17:

In the absence of time, how does this higher intelligence operate?

Constantly

Mind u, before information there was data and it takes a very Intelligent Being to process data to information

^^
If there was no time: no before or after and the Universe wasn't created, then there wouldn't be a time or a Universe.

Kay 17: ^^
If there was no time: no before or after and the Universe wasn't created, then there wouldn't be a time or a Universe.

Stop your nonsense cowardness to deviate from the very point of this thread. Answer my question and if you can't provide answer to it then stop bringing another topic here.

The topic is "information: evidence of a creator".
My question is "DNA information was written by who?" since materials can't generate immaterials as nature comprises only matters as atheist do claim.

^^
You have faulty premises which I have disagreed to.

Mathematical truths have NO origins or causes.

I never agreed with your definition for information

I never accepted the resulting conclusion (immaterial begats immaterial)

Thus ultimately I don't agree that information leads us to a Creator

Kay 17: ^^
You have faulty premises which I have disagreed to.

Give example

Mathematical truths have NO origins or causes.

What do you mean by mathematical truth? And give example.

I never agreed with your definition for information

I don't have defination for information everything I said about information is from UDI

I never accepted the resulting conclusion (immaterial begats immaterial)

Then you don't know anything about information by the way what do you understand by SOFTWARE?

Thus ultimately I don't agree that information leads us to a Creator

Do more research about information.

Emusan:
Are you kiding me?
But atheist do claim only Matters (mass/energy).

Ooman, see your life outside.

olodo, but you are the claiming immaterial exist as information and that is what i subscribed to.

dna as information (immaterial) exist, in a sense, but it remains material and was not sent

Mr Emusan

1. Whatever you have been saying

2. 1+1 = 2 2+2=4

3.

4. OR maybe you should make a better and more coherent argument.