Ihedinobi:

The law is useless to a Christian merely because he is not judged by it? Alright then, by what is the Christian judged?

the christian is NOT judged only unbelievers are. DO U KNOW WHO A CHRISTIAN IS?

MostHigh:

Wise man if all has been fulfilled on the cross as you say then why is there still sin in the world?

And what about your own cross?

Are you rushing towards it.

Or running away from it?

Do you understand what the word fulfilled means?

Oga MostHigh

Sin is not in the world because the Law hasn't been fulfilled, sin is in the world coz people are not being led of the Spirit of God that the finished work of Christ gives to all who accept Christ. The solution to carnality in the life of a believer isn't moral laws but the spirit-led life.

So the law stands fulfilled and will never be required again, whether for salvation or for righteousness or even perfection. Its all faith in Christ and fellowship with His spirit now

ayoku777:
Oga MostHigh

Sin is not in the world because the Law hasn't been fulfilled, sin is in the world coz people are not being led of the Spirit of God that the finished work of Christ gives to all who accept Christ. The solution to carnality in the life of a believer isn't moral laws but the spirit-led life.

@bolded, The mosaic law lovers will never understand.

Zikkyy:

i did not interpret your post to say zikkyy doing a recon for ihedinobi's enjoyment. have done a personal recon and don't see any relationship between my post and the scripture you referring to You first need to understand my post before asking for a recon. The 1 Timothy verse you referring to served the purpose when Paul made reference to it in 1 Corinthians 9.

This was what my post said:

Ihedinobi: I imagine you can reconcile this with the same Scripture you quoted on Goshen's thread from Paul's first letter to Timothy talking about how all Scripture is inspired by God and useful for instruction, correction, rebuking, exhortation and making perfect the man of God. I'd like to hear the reconciliation.

It was a request for you to show how that post agrees with a part of Scripture you evinced acceptance of.

my post was saying that one that is spirit led do not need to make reference to the written law (mosaic) to know he should not kill (for example). unless you are telling me the spirit himself is not aware of this fact and also need to consult the written law for such guidance. If Jesus did not need to law to guide his personal conduct why do i need the law now that i have Christ in me?

Fine. What do you use the Law for? Edit: who is the man of God that Paul was referring to in his letter to Timothy and what did he say the Scriptures are useful to him for? Is the "law" of Moses included in the Scriptures or not?

Ihedinobi:
Fine. What do you use the Law for?

this man you be journalist? why the question and answer? and you will be the one to answer a question with another question if i adopt your approach to responding to questions here, my response would be "what do you think i use it for"

but since am not Ihedinobi, i will tell you i don't use the for anything i don't need it.

Zikkyy:

if one cannot create the actual building from the model, of what use is the model then? we know the Jews could not achieve love by reliance on the law.

With the model of a building, one understands what to expect of the actual building itself.

Zikkyy:

this man you be journalist? why the question and answer? and you will be the one to answer a question with another question if i adopt your approach to responding to questions here, my response would be "what do you think i use it for"

but since am not Ihedinobi, i will tell you i don't use the for anything i don't need it.

I edited that post, sorry. You may want to look at it again.

Zikkyy:

Not really. My focus has been on the moral aspect of the law e.g. the 10 commandment.

Ok. Tithes are part of the ten commandments?

with all the references to the OT in the NT teachings by the apostle, most of these teachings would have been greek to you if you don't have knowledge of what they talking about. anyways, it's still greek to some people.

So we need the Law to comprehend Grace. What are you quarreling about then?

Zikkyy:

this man you be journalist? why the question and answer? and you will be the one to answer a question with another question if i adopt your approach to responding to questions here, my response would be "what do you think i use it for"

but since am not Ihedinobi, i will tell you i don't use the for anything i don't need it.

@ Zikkyy

Hehheeeh, you're right, that is the flaw with Ihedinobi, he doesn't express his own views and stand, he only keeps questioning yours.

Zikkyy:

you are not adding value to this discussion if all you do is ask questions

I don't agree with you.

Ihedinobi:

So we need the Law to comprehend Grace. What are you quarreling about then?

I'm tired of your games! Now that the Law had already made us know Grace is better. What the heck is the law of Moses still doing for you for heaven sake? What's its purpose? Hasn't it received people are sinners and that they need a Saviour by being led us to Christ already that they might be saved by Grace and the Spirit of God might then take over from there? What kind of argument is this?

ayoku777:

Hehheeeh, you're right, that is the flaw with Ihedinobi, he doesn't express his own views and stand, he only keeps questioning yours.

The same thing he did with me yesterday and when I realized it, I stopped responding. He asks questions and when you answer him, he picks another question out of your response and keeping going in circle? Okay, tell us what the purpose of the law of Moses is still serving AFTER it has led us to Christ? He would not talk. I don't like such discussion please!

I'm off from here.

ayoku777:

@ Zikkyy

Hehheeeh, you're right, that is the flaw with Ihedinobi, he doesn't express his own views and stand, he only keeps questioning yours.

It's easy to think that we're playing a game of wits here where everyone takes sides and tries to defeat the other. That is gross foolishness. And it is the reason that some of you are failing to pay attention and therefore speaking as carelessly as you just did above.

Have I indeed on this very thread not stated where I stand on these issues? Or you need me to take sides so that we can all dig down the Cross of Christ a bit further? Take heed, be very careful about yourself and the testimony you carry.

Goshen360:

The same thing he did with me yesterday and when I realized it, I stopped responding. He asks questions and when you answer him, he picks another question out of your response and keeping going in circle? Okay, tell us what the purpose of the law of Moses is still serving AFTER it has led us to Christ? He would not talk. I don't like such discussion please!

I'm off from here.

@ Goshen

Hehehe, I feel your frustration bro, but we can't afford to give up, you know.

ayoku777:

Oga MostHigh

Sin is not in the world because the Law hasn't been fulfilled, sin is in the world coz people are not being led of the Spirit of God that the finished work of Christ gives to all who accept Christ. The solution to carnality in the life of a believer isn't moral laws but the spirit-led life.

So the law stands fulfilled and will never be required again, whether for salvation or for righteousness or even perfection. Its all faith in Christ and fellowship with His spirit now

Does faith in yashua not directly imply faith in his works?

And from your intepretation it would seem that the heavens and earth have passed away already

Na wa for these Lawless men o.

Goshen360:

The same thing he did with me yesterday and when I realized it, I stopped responding. He asks questions and when you answer him, he picks another question out of your response and keeping going in circle? Okay, tell us what the purpose of the law of Moses is still serving AFTER it has led us to Christ? He would not talk. I don't like such discussion please!

I'm off from here.

and the servant of the lord should not STRIVE but should be GENTLE unto all men, in meekness, instructing those who OPPOSE THEMSELVES, paraventure.. God will give them a repentance heart to the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTG and deliver them from the snare of the devil...."2tim2:

Goshen360:

I'm tired of your games! Now that the Law had already made us know Grace is better. What the heck is the law of Moses still doing for you for heaven sake? What's its purpose? Hasn't it received people are sinners and that they need a Saviour by being led us to Christ already that they might be saved by Grace and the Spirit of God might then take over from there? What kind of argument is this?

Iam sure your pen*s is all stinky from all those dead skin cells

And just like the goyim that need no law you clean it everyday with cotton wool

just live in love thats all you need abi (decievers)

the punishment for lawlessness is death

Lawless man.

christemmbassey: the christian is NOT judged only unbelievers are. DO U KNOW WHO A CHRISTIAN IS?

Yes I do. Romans 8:9 says it's anyone who has the Spirit of Christ.

About judgment, 2 Corinthians 5:10 says that we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Ihedinobi:

With the model of a building, one understands what to expect of the actual building itself.

keyword here is "understands". so it's not the same thing and cannot really help in building the actual structure. Now that i have the actual structure, i don't need it for myself anymore. the best i can do with the model is to sell it to you ... okay, i will 'dash' you (you know am my brothers keeper ) since you are also considering your own building after seeing my palace but considering the amount of time you have spent studying the model, am not sure you will ever erect that structure o!

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Death to all Lawlessness

Goshen360:

The same thing he did with me yesterday and when I realized it, I stopped responding. He asks questions and when you answer him, he picks another question out of your response and keeping going in circle? Okay, tell us what the purpose of the law of Moses is still serving AFTER it has led us to Christ? He would not talk. I don't like such discussion please!

I'm off from here.

Goshen, if you have seen me in debate, you will appreciate that I treat those I consider brethren differently. And even then, I vary approach according to the sensitivity of the issue at hand.

I ask questions to force you to think about what you are saying. I quite willing to let anyone think that I am unschooled in the Word when I disagree with them, but as far as I can, I will provoke such people to thought. Sometimes in my own questioning I have come to realize that I was wrong in what I thought, sometimes that happens because of someone else's questioning of things I thought were true.

The only people who hate to be questioned are those who are afraid to be wrong and it is only pride that inspires such fear.

Ihedinobi:
I quite willing to let anyone think that I am unschooled in the Word when I disagree with them, but as far as I can, I will provoke such people to thought.

you better be careful with this ya questioning, so you don't provoke somebody to the point where the man will pull a pistol on ya

MostHigh:

Does faith in yashua not directly imply faith in his works?

Before asking another question, do you understand that particular answer and how it answers your Mathew 5:19 worries. If not, explain what christ meant when he said until the law is fulfilled. pls enlighten me before moving on.

Ihedinobi:
The only people who hate to be questioned are those who are afraid to be wrong and it is only pride that inspires such fear.

i don't quite agree. it's based on expectations. if there is some form of understanding between the parties to the discussion that it's going to be a question and answer thing, i don't think there would be an issue.

Ihedinobi:

Yes I do. Romans 8:9 says it's anyone who has the Spirit of Christ.

About judgment, 2 Corinthians 5:10 says that we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

cro read my post, i said, "a christian is not judged"

shdemidemi:

Before asking another question, do you understand that particular answer and how it answers your Mathew 5:19 worries. If not, explain what christ meant when he said until the law is fulfilled. pls enlighten me before moving on.

Correction he says untill all is fullfiled

and by this (ALL) he means the kingdom age

When longevity will be returned to man

when the lion will sit with the goat

When one will not need to teach another for the love of the lord and his laws will be in thier hearts

When it will not be hard to speak up for the truth and justice because the devil and his children have been obliterated by nuke fire

when every head of the house shall be the priest of the house and king as well (no more pastors drinking human blood)....etc


so you tell me has all the above happened yet where you live?

Finally what are the ordinances of your priesthood I am very interested to know?

Ihedinobi:

Goshen, if you have seen me in debate, you will appreciate that I treat those I consider brethren differently. And even then, I vary approach according to the sensitivity of the issue at hand.

I ask questions to force you to think about what you are saying. I quite willing to let anyone think that I am unschooled in the Word when I disagree with them, but as far as I can, I will provoke such people to thought. Sometimes in my own questioning I have come to realize that I was wrong in what I thought, sometimes that happens because of someone else's questioning of things I thought were true.

The only people who hate to be questioned are those who are afraid to be wrong and it is only pride that inspires such fear.

Brother, I have sat in the hot seat on this forum many times and you know it. I'm never afraid to be questioned. That's the only way we could check ourselves against error. What I'm angry at is, it seems to look like a circle game when we come for discussion and need to edify Christian people but all time spent seem to look at though nothing is achieved. Well, I don't like wasting time for nothing.

The second point is, the issue of law of Moses and Grace of Christ is very clear from scriptures and what baffles me is someone like you holding to the law of Moses and presenting such to Christians. That calls for a doubt in your position. When we all say something, we all have basis from the word of God why we say what we say but when certain things are weighted carefully and rightly divided, we can all see our wrongs. I do not claim to be free from error or know it all. My thing is, the little I know, I tend to know it well so I can teach it well.

When I was thinking about this subject yesterday after our debate, the Spirit of the Lord dropped something in my heart that the problem is not now, it all started with the Judaizer Christians that wanted to force obedience to the Mosaic law on the non-Jewish Christians and that problem continued until today. Hence, if we continue in the debate, it will not end here.

Three groups the whole bible was written to and if any bible teachers cannot find the place of these three groups, then we fall into error - The Natural Israel\Jews; The Gentiles\Non-Jews and The Church\Christians. The Christian\Church is made of the two aforementioned and to do that, Christ came and destroyed the law that put the Gentiles away from the covenant of God and Christ made a ONE NEW MAN from the two groups. Therefore, both Christians and Jews are not ruled anymore by the law of Moses but by the law of Christ.

It was the Jews that never wanted to accept the finished works of Christ that the law of Moses had ended, hereby launching a ONE PEOPLE in Christ. They adhere so much to Moses and Abraham as their patriarch not acknowledging Christ had come to replace both Abraham and Moses....says the book of Hebrews. Today, if we can accept what the word simply says and find our place in the word, then much of these problems will reduce or cease. My submission to those who read us is, Christ had fulfilled the law and Christ is the end of the law of Moses and he had made a one new man in himself which he govern by his law, not of Moses. All what I say here is all rooted in scriptures but I don't wanna write too long epistle.

Thank you brother, I'm not angry anymore and I love you all. Even though we disagree on some issues, I still love everyone here because we are all one in Christ.

Zikkyy:

you better be careful with this ya questioning, so you don't provoke somebody to the point where the man will pull a pistol on ya

....and yankee people dey always waka with at least one bullet...

MostHigh:

Iam sure your pen*s is all stinky from all those dead skin cells

And just like the goyim that need no law you clean it everyday with cotton wool

just live in love thats all you need abi (decievers)

the punishment for lawlessness is death

Lawless man.

thats law (boko haram) mentality . There is therefor now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. You sound like one of those who killed Jesus and the early christians. Are you a catholic?

Zikkyy:

keyword here is "understands". so it's not the same thing and cannot really help in building the actual structure. Now that i have the actual structure, i don't need it for myself anymore. the best i can do with the model is to sell it to you ... okay, i will 'dash' you (you know am my brothers keeper ) since you are also considering your own building after seeing my palace but considering the amount of time you have spent studying the model, am not sure you will ever erect that structure o!

You see why I said that you people are not paying attention. Have I not been insisting that the model is not even a house in itself so that it should be said that there are two houses: the model and the actual building?

I hold that Moses was only a picture of Christ. He is not a Law the same way that Christ is. The Law is Christ. However, Moses came to describe Christ to us and is useful to understanding Christ.

Now that we have got Christ, have we completely comprehended Him? What do the Scriptures say? 1 Corinthians 13:9, 12 says that we haven't and 1 John 3:2 says that we won't until Christ comes.

We are to grow up into Him in all things. That means that there is a growing up to do and it is into Him and in more than one thing. And this growing up occurs as we understand Christ. Therefore, Moses is a necessary lesson for us to attain the fullness of Christ.

Again, I reiterate: this does not mean at all that that which is in Christ can be under obligation. It means that the building that is Christ in us is under construction for as long as we are found in this earthly tabernacle and we will continue to refer to the model until the building has been perfected.

christemmbassey: cro read my post, i said, "a christian is not judged"

I don't get your point.

MostHigh:

Correction he says untill all is fullfiled

and by this (ALL) he means the kingdom age

When longevity will be returned to man

when the lion will sit with the goat

When one will not need to teach another for the love of the lord and his laws will be in thier hearts

When it will not be hard to speak up for the truth and justice because the devil and his children have been obliterated by nuke fire

when every head of the house shall be the priest of the house and king as well (no more pastors drinking human blood)....etc


so you tell me has all the above happened yet where you live?

Finally what are the ordinances of your priesthood I am very interested to know?

So, what is the significance of christ's death if the 'fulfilled' means when lion and goat will be groupies.pls try back it up with the scripture