Bidam:

2 Timothy 3:17 - And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

1. This is the same thing we've been saying, faith in Christ is = Salvation and that's what will remain, not saved by faith in Christ and then ADDING the law of Moses to continue in the salvation. The law of Moses had no role in salvation and will not have any role in continuing the walk.

2. This is what people keep telling you again and again. There're are things written in the law of Moses that you don't do today which is part of the "All Scriptures...". Yes, all scriptures is given but not all applies to you. This is a simple truth. If your child is rebellious, will you kill or stone that child to death because it is written in scriptures and\or that all scriptures apply to you?

ayoku777:

correct, the law of moses foreshadows Christ and what he is coming to accomplish. Now that the person who owns the shadow has entered the building, will you continue to interact with the shadow. You would most definitely look ridiculous to the man, when he is standing in your front and you're still talking to his shadow. That is how christians who still live by the dos and don'ts of the law look to Christ, the one whom the law forshadows.

So you're right, the law points to Christ. And if a signpost points to a house, what you do is move over to the house it points to and begin living there, not pitch a tent and camp with the signpost that was pointing to the house. The law was fulfilled when the person it was pointing to, Jesus, rose from the dead. Our life now is in Christ and our obligation is to being led of his spirit.

ayam not disputing that..you are the ones belittling the OT MY QUESTION IS: Did Paul and the other disciples preach JESUS using the New Testament?

what is the difference between trouble and wahala?

Bidam: ayam not disputing that..you are the ones belittling the OT MY QUESTION IS: Did Paul and the other disciples preach JESUS using the New Testament?

Abeg comot for road joor . When they were writing the NT, didn't the Holy Ghost tell you it was a progressive revelation? Or did they repeat the OT? The NT was written by the revelation of Christ to the Apostles.....make sure to pen that down. That's the purpose of choosing the twelves, to teach them what He, Christ wanted for His church.

Goshen360:

^



I told you earlier the two laws - of Moses and of Christ were used by another name interchangeably. The Jewish law in that context is still the law of Moses. It was called the Jewish law because it was given to the Jews, not to Christians or Gentiles. If I have $100 and I give it to, does it still belong to me after giving it to you? Off course, it shall be called yours. Have you found such phrase in scriptures called "Christianish law"? Off course not, because Christians are under Christ's law - LOVE! That's the bedrock of our Christianity.

So the Jewish law, that is, the law of the Jews is the same as the law of Moses, right?

What do the Scriptures say is the relationship between the Jews, their law and Christ?

The law of God is the law by which God operates a given time and dispensation. That's why I said and teach, we are not under law doesn't mean we are lawless. NO! It means we are still subject to the law of God in operation at a given time. In this time, age and dispensation; the law of God is the law of Christ and that's what Christians are under or subject to, not of Moses. At some times in scriptures when the law of Moses was in effect, scripture calls the law of Moses the law of God, that's what they had at that time.

You're saying that God changes His standards from dispensation to dispensation? That God is subject to change?

Goshen360:

1. This is the same thing we've been saying, faith in Christ is = Salvation and that's what will remain, not saved by faith in Christ and then ADDING the law of Moses to continue in the salvation. The law of Moses had no role in salvation and will not have any role in continuing the walk.

2. This is what people keep telling you again and again. There're are things written in the law of Moses that you don't do today which is part of the "All Scriptures...". Yes, all scriptures is given but not all applies to you. This is a simple truth. If your child is rebellious, will you kill or stone that child to death because it is written in scriptures and\or that all scriptures apply to you?

you are not getting my point. When Paul told Timothy "that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures"

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did it include the NT?

Goshen360:

So you derive faith from obeying the law of Moses because it is written in scriptures? Then your faith is truly in shadows because Christ is the substance of the law. Your faith then must be in Christ, not the shadows.

Try and pay attention, Goshen. I'm hard-pressed to see the connection between the above and the question I asked.

Bidam: you are not getting my point. When Paul told Timothy "that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures"

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did it include the NT?

Ihedinobi:

Try and pay attention, Goshen. I'm hard-pressed to see the connection between the above and the question I asked.

Well, all your questions are further generating another question and you're just going in circles. When I ask you a question, you dodge it and when you ask me, I answer you. I will soon be off from computer for today in few minutes. The one I do today don do. TBC!

Goshen360:

Abeg comot for road joor . When they were writing the NT, didn't the Holy Ghost tell you it was a progressive revelation? Or did they repeat the OT? The NT was written by the revelation of Christ to the Apostles.....make sure to pen that down. That's the purpose of choosing the twelves, to teach them what He, Christ wanted for His church.

You yourself have already said Mathew, mark,luke and John are OT scriptures, so i don't see what point you are trying to make here.

Goshen360:

See as I dey laugh you in tongues. Honestly I don't expect this kind of question from you. Oh, so you still think 'burden' is just like what we call somebody's wahala this days right? That word burden also mean trouble. So, if some give you trouble, bear it. How can you do that except for LOVE....that is by obeying the law of Christ? It is the same word the Apostles already said the Mosaic laws was and never wanted to add more or burden the Gentile Christians with it.

Expanded Bible (EXB)
28 It has pleased the Holy Spirit that you should not have a heavy ·load [burden] to carry, and we agree. You need to do only these things: 29 Stay away from any food that has been ·offered [sacrificed] to idols, eating any animals that have been strangled, and blood, and any kind of sexual sin [see v. 20]. If you stay away from these things, you will do well. ·Good-bye [Best wishes; May you fare well]. 30 So they ·left Jerusalem [were sent off/dismissed] and went to Antioch where they gathered the ·church [congregation; assembly] and ·gave them [delivered] the letter. Acts 15

I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to do here, Goshen. Bearing one another's burdens is helping one another, sharing in one another's difficulties and challenges and lightening each other's load. What does "eye for an eye" have to do with that?

Goshen360:

Another wayo way of dodging question. I thought you said you were ready for me tonite

Ihedinobi:

So the Jewish law, that is, the law of the Jews is the same as the law of Moses, right?

What do the Scriptures say is the relationship between the Jews, their law and Christ?



You're saying that God changes His standards from dispensation to dispensation? That God is subject to change?

This question ought to set "thinking men"....THINKING

Bidam: You yourself have already said Mathew, mark,luke and John are OT scriptures, so i don't see what point you are trying to make here.

Bidam, I don't know when or how long I'm gonna be with you in all these matters. Don't you understand still that the law of Moses was still in effect when Christ was born? If it was done away with, then what law did Christ said he came to fulfill? Matthew to John are OT. Christ was born into the Old and the second purpose is, to establish the teachings that will carry on into the New, not according to the OT, that is, after he had done fulfilling the Old by the Cross. Do you still need me to teach or tell you these little things?

Ihedinobi:

I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to do here, Goshen. Bearing one another's burdens is helping one another, sharing in one another's difficulties and challenges and lightening each other's load. What does "eye for an eye" have to do with that?

Ihedinobi:

I'm not sure what exactly you are trying to do here, Goshen. Bearing one another's burdens is helping one another, sharing in one another's difficulties and challenges and lightening each other's load. What does "eye for an eye" have to do with that?

Why read the scriptures and say it must mean this or that? It can mean beyond what we think it means. Look at it this way, maybe you will understand.....Greek wan start be that o

The word 'burden' is from the Greek word, baros and it means: heaviness, weight, burden, trouble from here, http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G922&t=KJV

As usual, take those meanings and key back into the context. You have all what the writer intents, not just limited to what you think the writer intended.

Therefore, "Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ" = "Bear ye one another's heaviness, weight, burden, trouble, and so fulfil the law of Christ".

If somebody have trouble or brings trouble to you, positive or negative, you must bear it as a Christian. At least you know trouble can be positive or negative.

Bidam: Another wayo way of dodging question. I thought you said you were ready for me tonite

hahaha very funny. Hope he answers tomorrow.

Goshen360:



Why read the scriptures and say it must mean this or that? It can mean beyond what we think it means. Look at it this way, maybe you will understand.....Greek wan start be that o

The word 'burden' is from the Greek word, baros and it means: heaviness, weight, burden, trouble from here, http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G922&t=KJV

As usual, take those meanings and key back into the context. You have all what the writer intents, not just limited to what you think the writer intended.

Therefore, "Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ" = "Bear ye one another's heaviness, weight, burden, trouble, and so fulfil the law of Christ".

If somebody have trouble or brings trouble to you, positive or negative, you must bear it as a Christian. At least you know trouble can be positive or negative.

bro tha scripture is very simple, u dont need Greek or anything to undastand it. Whats ur point?

Ihedinobi:

So the Jewish law, that is, the law of the Jews is the same as the law of Moses, right?

What do the Scriptures say is the relationship between the Jews, their law and Christ?

My brother, I have told you many times. The Jewish laws or the law of Moses is not the same as the law of Christ. Does the law of Christ asked you to stone people to death? Or does it tell you to stone rebellious children to death? I hope you show us that law if it exist in the law of Christ because I don't understand the relationship you are seeking for? What relationship exist between law of Moses and Grace?

Ihedinobi:

You're saying that God changes His standards from dispensation to dispensation? That God is subject to change?

Yes, God changes His mode of operation. He is the same God of the OT and of the NT. How come the same God said, I want a New Covenant and not just leave it at the Old? Until you understand that the shadow is gone because the substance has come, you will confusing both for the other. God Himself does not change but his ways changes - from Old Covenant to New; From law to Grace; from curse to blessing etc.

christemmbassey: bro tha scripture is very simple, u dont need Greek or anything to undastand it. Whats ur point?

The point I was making to Ihedinobi is, that 'burden' includes everything negative and positive, including troubles. Like someone slap you from behind, trying to look for your trouble....just bear it or take it with love for Christ's sake - that's love or turn the other side make the person slap the other side. After the person slap the other side, just tell the person, bless you; have you received Christ as your Lord and Saviour?

Goshen360:

Bidam, I don't know when or how long I'm gonna be with you in all these matters. Don't you understand still that the law of Moses was still in effect when Christ was born? If it was done away with, then what law did Christ said he came to fulfill? Matthew to John are OT. Christ was born into the Old and the second purpose is, to establish the teachings that will carry on into the New, not according to the OT, that is, after he had done fulfilling the Old by the Cross. Do you still need me to teach or tell you these little things?

and did what i posted say otherwise?i was just making reference to what you wrote concerning Jesus teaching the 12.. you are yet to answer my questions though.

Image123:
hahaha very funny. Hope he answers tomorrow.

Hope so too the guy wayo don too much

Bidam: Hope so too the guy wayo don too much

Which wayo? Abeg leaf mi make I sleep joor, when I wake up, I will answer ya kweshion.

Bidam: @ the emboldened before the compilations of the NT. WHAT BOOKS ARE READ IN THE SYNAGOGUE EVERY SABBATH?

Maybe you should first ask ya self if Paul was talking to Jews or Gentiles in that verse. BTW, which time you begin attend synagogue

Ihedinobi:

I imagine you can reconcile this with the same Scripture you quoted on Goshen's thread from Paul's first letter to Timothy talking about how all Scripture is inspired by God and useful for instruction, correction, rebuking, exhortation and making perfect the man of God. I'd like to hear the reconciliation.

Have done the recon already and knows that learning does not equate to adoption.

Bidam: I think you might as well tear the OT from your bible.This your statement get as e bi..are you telling us Jesus never read the Torah or Paul and the others for guidance?

Reading the mosaic law as a teaching guide is not bad e.g. to help in your understanding of the gospel. The problem really is when you now decide to live by the mosaic law. Jesus or Paul did not teach that you should subject ya self to the requirements of the mosaic law.

Bidam:

2 Timothy 3:17 - And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

This letter was a personal message to Timothy, and not to the church.understand it as such pls.

Bidam: you are not getting my point. When Paul told Timothy "that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures"

---

did it include the NT?

Paul was talking about the New Testament alone and nothing of the old. Timothy was only a young man adopted by Paul during his sojourn.

Bidam: As an Orthodox Rabbi, Paul taught that Torah was indeed for Gentiles -- not for salvation, but as the direction they should be encouraged to follow subsequent to coming to faith. (As i mentioned, this was proclaimed by the Jerusalem council in Acts 15:21).

@the bolded.You mean we Gentiles on being born again should follow the Torah Hope you know the Torah contains 613 laws in all.How many of them do you and i keep today? for a summary of the Torah see Deut chapters 12 through 27.

Acts 15:21 you referenced talks about Moses(the law) being read in the synagogues.Gentiles are strangers and are excluded from the assembly of the Jews.Its a strictly Jewish affair.

The sentence of the Jerusalem Council is outlined by James in Acts 15:19-20 and Acts 15:28-29 and it stipulates only 4 donts.

shdemidemi:

This letter was a personal message to Timothy, and not to the church.understand it as such pls.

looking for an easy route to escape..was timothy NOT a gentile like you?

shdemidemi:

Paul was talking about the New Testament alone and nothing of the old. Timothy was only a young man adopted by Paul during his sojourn.

This is a big lie..every bible scholar knows Paul was referring to the OT GO DO THE RESEARCH.

20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounde[/b]d, [b]grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

That is the simplicity of the gospel. Law came to reveal sin - the wages of this sin is death but this gospel is the power of salvation to anyone who believe. Therefore, even when you tell lies or commit any sin under the law, the power of grace is multiplied.

The issue of faith and righteousness can be understood through the life of Abraham. Abraham believed and his belief was accounted to him as righteousness but we should remember Abraham laughed when God told him He would have a child through Sarah. God asked if they were laughing, they lied by saying ... No. That means they doubted and lied, would these " sin" stop them from getting the promise?

The law is useless to a Christian cos He is not judged by it.