4JA:

Imhotep, I haven't made any claims for the trinity so I don't have to prove anything.

But it is CENTRAL to your belief system. How can an un-biblical term like the TRINITY be the backbone of your christianity?

4JA:

You seem to defend purgatory and penance.

Yes.

4JA:

I just want you to show me where they are explicitely taught in the Bible so that I can read it for myself.

But have you also searched for the word TRINITY?

davidylan:

Imhotep stop shouting. You just keep looking more and more spiritually empty with each lung bursting effort.

And you keep sounding more and more confused.

davidylan:

I showed you trinity in the bible . . . you don't want to see because the minute you do u'd be forced to admit penance and purgatory isnt there.

Penance and purgatory are in the bible. You have skipped the verses as usual, or deleted the books, protestant style.

davidylan:

Even Olabowale would do a bit better than u're doing at the moment. Keep dribbling around.

Have you answered his queries about the Trinity

2 Corinthians 13: 14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

Jn. 5:18 For this reason the Jewish leaders were trying even harder to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was also calling God his own Father, thus making himself equal with God.

- Even the Jewish leaders knew?  

1 Corinthians 2: 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.  11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

We recieve the Spirit of God which is God Himself who is also Christ Himself as the Jewish leaders knew in John 5!

I close this senseless, meaningless and shady crying for "answers" with this eloquent statement from a man of God - Because the word trinity is never found in the Bible some wonder about whether this is a biblical doctrine or not, but the absence of a term used to describe a doctrine does not necessarily mean the term is not biblical. The issue is, does the term accurately reflect what the Scripture teaches?

Penance and purgatory may not be found in the bible but do they describe doctrines that are biblical? THAT is the question Imhotep . . . that is all required of you . . . pussyfooting and prevaricating will get you no where.

Thanks!

imhotep:

Penance and purgatory are in the bible. You have skipped the verses as usual, or deleted the books, protestant style.

3 pages of asking this same questions of Lady produced NOT A SINGLE BIBLE SCRIPTURE in defence.

3 pages of asking you the same question has produced NOT A SINGLE BIBLE SCRIPTURE from you in defence. Rather you hide behind accusations of verse-skipping and book deletion. I have deleted nothing in my bible . . . show me where penance and purgatory are.

davidylan:

2 Corinthians 13: 14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

Jn. 5:18 For this reason the Jewish leaders were trying even harder to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was also calling God his own Father, thus making himself equal with God.

- Even the Jewish leaders knew?

1 Corinthians 2: 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

We recieve the Spirit of God which is God Himself who is also Christ Himself as the Jewish leaders knew in John 5!

I close this senseless, meaningless and shady crying for "answers" with this eloquent statement from a man of God - Because the word trinity is never found in the Bible some wonder about whether this is a biblical doctrine or not, but the absence of a term used to describe a doctrine does not necessarily mean the term is not biblical. The issue is, does the term accurately reflect what the Scripture teaches?

Penance and purgatory may not be found in the bible but do they describe doctrines that are biblical? THAT is the question Imhotep . . . that is all required of you . . . pussyfooting and prevaricating will get you no where.

Thanks!

TRINITY is still missing.

imhotep:

TRINITY is still missing.

I give up. 4JA over to you.

davidylan:

3 pages of asking this same questions of Lady produced NOT A SINGLE BIBLE SCRIPTURE in defence.

3 pages of asking you the same question has produced NOT A SINGLE BIBLE SCRIPTURE from you in defence. Rather you hide behind accusations of verse-skipping and book deletion. I have deleted nothing in my bible . . . show me where penance and purgatory are.

Go and read your bible very well.


==================
By the way, I just remembered something. I was once told that, during a church service, Pastor Adeboye told his congregation that he had a vision from God. In that vision, it was revealed to him that, if rapture was to occur, only 7 of them in that church service would make it to heaven.
This got me thinking. How could it be that a large majority of his church congregation, who claim CONFESS DIRECTLY TO GOD, were NOT acceptable to God?. So much for bible reading and cramming.

davidylan:

I give up. 4JA over to you.

Don't give up. Please, search the bible, use a concordance, get the original Greek/Hebrew manuscripts. . . you might be lucky.

Jn. 5:18 For this reason the Jewish leaders were trying even harder to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was also calling God his own Father, thus making himself equal with God.

Is this verse a clear endictment against those persons, who said, in their earlier and many arguments to prrof to us that God was known as father by the Jews? Please read the text, again and decide for yourself. From the tone, it is very obvious that the Jews found the claim by Jesus to be a son to the God they know to be childless as blasphemy.

I remember some individuals who argued this point of father and son relationship and in so doing made claims that their Bible is opposing them on. The Bible itself, here and now opposes itself. Now tell me did the Old Children of Israel Prophets, eg Moses, etc, called God their father? Did the Children of Israel called God their father? Are the children of Israel, aka, the Jews suffering from cronic amnesia by their finding Jesus to be spewing blasphamous things, by what the New testament writers claimed that he said his relationship was beside being an elect of God in prophethood and messengership to his nations?

Can anyone now see that the Bible itself supports and witnesses for Muhammad bin Abdallah, the unlettered prophet and messenger (as)? Where are the people who claimed that they left Islam because they find it and its last prophet to be false? Have they shamely returned back to Islam? Which position is true when an entity takes two completely opposing positions to each other on an issue? How would you know which position is probably likely to be true? You check the texts of both of them, with what was the prevailing knowledge before the two statements were made. In this case, from the above verse, we see that the Jews were angry that somebody is now claiming to be son of god, when such a statement was never made before, by anyone or any group. If it had ever been made, there would never have been any reason for the Jews to be upset and find such a statement to be blasphamous.

Then you check the statement made about it from the latest witness, who seems disinterested and having no obvious gain from the controversy in the first place. WE check the veracity of the character of this entity to know how upstanding he is within the circle of those wo knew him. We see that Muhammad (as) was nicknamed the "trustworthy," by the Makkans. And his followers were certain of his statement in honesty that they were not ashamed to recite the verse essence of denial of Jesus and God not being related as son and father, but only as messenger and God, respectively.

Glory to Allah who has raised Muhammad up and gave him the religion of islam, dealing in natural moderations. I am grateful to Allah Who had made me a Muslim.

olabowale:

Is this verse a clear endictment against those persons, who said, in their earlier and many arguments to prrof to us that God was known as father by the Jews? Please read the text, again and decide for yourself. From the tone, it is very obvious that the Jews found the claim by Jesus to be a son to the God they know to be childless as blasphemy.

the jews were full of unbelief . . . but from the verse you talked about they knew something that remains a stumbling block to you hypocrites . . . Jesus Christ refering to Himself as the Son of God meant one thing - He was God Himself! It was nothing to do with sonship or Fatherhood.

Look at the verse again - Jn. 5:18 For this reason the Jewish leaders were trying even harder to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was also calling God his own Father, thus making himself equal with God.

@Davidylan

2 Corinthians 13: 14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

Jn. 5:18 For this reason the Jewish leaders were trying even harder to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was also calling God his own Father, thus making himself equal with God.

- Even the Jewish leaders knew?

1 Corinthians 2: 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

We recieve the Spirit of God which is God Himself who is also Christ Himself as the Jewish leaders knew in John 5!

Baptising them in the name of Father, son and Holy Spirit is quite different from God is the father, the son and the holy Spirit, so do not try to smuggle that and give it wrong interpretation.

The Jews also reject the trinity, in addition to the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Corinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians never know about trinity doctrine at all. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus (peace be upon him) as a prophet of God and against the trinity.

A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge notes that many say that the Trinity "is a corruption borrowed from the heathen religions, and engrafted on the Christian faith."

The Encyclopedia Americana comments: "Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.

Carry on with your debate but will come in when I notice mis-interpretation of biblical verses.

babs787:

@Davidylan


Baptising them in the name of Father, son and Holy Spirit is quite different from God is the father, the son and the holy Spirit, so do not try to smuggle that and give it wrong interpretation.

Look closely at the verse . . . it does not say in the name[b]s[/b]. A clear indication that those three bear the SAME name.

babs787:

The Jews also reject the trinity

because they understood there were no three Gods but one in three manifestations.

babs787:

A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge notes that many say that the Trinity "is a corruption borrowed from the heathen religions, and engrafted on the Christian faith."

dictionary of religious knowledge? How stupid.
Do you know how a dictionary defines jihad? Does that make it correct?

babs787:

Carry on with your debate but will come in when I notice mis-interpretation of biblical verses.

what a foolish man. Did you not say the bible allah sent was lost and the one we had was a corruption? Now you understand them better than us?

Where did you leave ur quran? Go and understand it first.

@Davidylan: I know am hypocritical. So I need to do better about Islam. But what is amiss in your case is that you just did not see why the Jews, in John 5 verse 18 were up in arms against Jesus? The truth is that they considered Jesus to be blasphemous in speech by claiming to be equal to God by his statement that God is his Father. This in itself point to us, that if anybody before Jesus ever claimed that god was his father, such a person will be saying something to the effect that he is equal to God. This is why the Jews God upset. If such a claim did not mean such a thing as being equalto God, the Jews would never have gotten so angry with Jesus, that they are determined to terminate his life.

Further, were a speech like that ever been made to indicate any other meaning than what the Jews took Jesus supposed statement to mean they would not have so shocked at his strange statement. In other words, David (Omo Baba "Nuga of Ijebu Ode), the Bible part of the old testament is being contradicted by John 5 Verse 18. This verse is actually saying to us that no one before Jesus had ever said it and was not challenged for saying something blasphamous. It seems though by the surprise that Jesus ever dared to say something like this indicated to any keen minded observer that it was never have said by any one before what was claimed to have been said by Jesus. This truly terminated as false all the verses that alluded to son/children of God in the Old testament.

We then have to agree that John 5 verse 18 completely disagrees with the thought that Trinity or multiplicity of God head9s) ever was accepted by the jews. While John 5 Verse 18 agrees with Mark 12 verse 29, where jesus let us know that he was a slave servant who worshipped the same Lord God as his audience or primary followers, we never will notice that that very verse serves as an iconoclast to any verse claimed to have been attached to him and all the post ascension verses that alluded to him being part of and or equal to God, in any form. This verse smashed into completely useless pieces the idea of Trinity.

Where is this woman called osisi? She needs to wake up and put on hijab and kimar. The days of humanitarian Doctors are not gone, yet. (Courtesy of Dr. Ekpo Eyo!).

@David

Look closely at the verse . . . it does not say in the names. A clear indication that those three bear the SAME name.

because they understood there were no three Gods but one in three manifestations.

Dont try giving flawless explanation.
You should be able to show me where they preached trinity.
So Jesus, Holy Spirit and God happens to be one but:

Earthly God depended on heavenly God for survival
Earthly God had little knowledge regarding some things in which heavenly God knows

Earthly God begged and prayed to heavenly God to save him when enemies wanted to kill him

Earthly God begged and prayed to himself, heavenly God to save from death and heavenly God sent part of Him, Holy Spirit to himself on earth that he was with him!!

Earthly God cried to himself in heaven that why did he forsake him!!

dictionary of religious knowledge? How stupid. \

So David the ignoramus, show me trinity as defined by your book

Do you know how a dictionary defines jihad? Does that make it correct?

You should show me then? There is no need crying when you have no proof to support your false doctrine of trinity. Since you are that brainwahsed and inclined to falsehood without thinking, do you care to explain some biblical verses with regards to trinity?

what a foolish man. Did you not say the bible allah sent was lost and the one we had was a corruption? Now you understand them better than us?

Let us see who is really foolish. I will appreciate if if you would show me where I said that Allah sent THE BIBLE and if you are not able to do that, then you are the dunce, ok?

Where did you leave your quran? Go and understand it first.

I do and will even teach you your bible because it happens to be my origin, the book I started with.

@Davidylan: Tell me in your writing before bab's response to you above, why are the jews trying to kill him; because they belived he was God and therefore telling the truth, or because they deemed himas liar in his blasphemous speech, hence they were intending to rid their society of a liar?
Again did they see him as a truth teller or liar by this very claim of being "equal to God?" I do not think that his good deeds on sabbath is enough to make the jews wanna kill him. But his statement which they construed as saying that he is considering himself equal to god is. Pleas tell us which one is the reason that they wanna kill him? You must bear in mind that they even were ashamed when he told them about forgiveness in the case of the woman accused of adultry, so it will not be surprising that his good deed on sabbath is a way to show them kindness on that day, too.

What was he showing them in being declaring himself to be equal to God, except blasphemy? Afterall, the Jews believe that God can not be seen by human and still live to tell about it. You better be ready for your Jilbab, Dvaid, if you can't explain yourself. I know you can't.

@ Babs787: Alhamdulillah ladhi adaana Islam (I am thankful to Allah that my way is Islam). David you must answer the incompleteness of your earthly God. Leave the non_muslim authored Dictionary definition of Jihad alone. The muslims know the truth. Its in the Qur'an and hadith. Its like Ragu Spagetti sauce; its in there. Where is your in your Bible? Thats the Trillion Dollar question.

babs787:

Let us see who is really foolish. I will appreciate if if you would show me where I said that Allah sent THE BIBLE and if you are not able to do that, then you are the dunce, ok?

Surah 3:3 It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).
  Nazzala AAalayka alkitaba bialhaqqimusaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi waanzala alttawratawaal-injeela
   
Thou fool, read the above and shut up!

Is the torah and gospel the same as we now have in the bible or are you still looking for urs? If its not then WHY are you seeking the comforter in those pages thou son of belial?

olabowale:

@Davidylan: Tell me in your writing before bab's response to you above, why are the jews trying to kill him; because they belived he was God and therefore telling the truth, or because they deemed himas liar in his blasphemous speech, hence they were intending to rid their society of a liar?
Again did they see him as a truth teller or liar by this very claim of being "equal to God?"

Alhaji, your understanding of the bible is poor. Arguing with you is like trying to make a mule read.

This very interesting thread seems to be filled more with lousy attempts at libel from the Christian Corner and Not very great research from either, though I was impressed with Frizy's determination and reasoning.

Firstly Oh Muslims, the one thing you want to do when inviting Christians to Islam is to get them to follow their own Bible which doesn't teach that Jesus was god. Jesus makes it categorically clear in the Bible that he is not god. Show them those verses first and then guide them unto their own Bible's predictions of the coming of Muhammed. The Gospel of Barnabus is not needed.

Just direct them to their own bible, which is corrupted by 400+ contradictions and scientific errors, I know, but still Muslims can discern the truth from what is consistent with their books. Such as the scientific error with the Arc of Noah is corrected by the Quran as it denotes a local flood, not an unlikely world wide one.

Once you get them to follow their own book, then you can invite them to the Quran and how it is free of contradiction and error. They will tell you crazy things like a muddy sun (or something), things that Muslims have NEVER believed (only christians and athiests), but all you need to tell them to do is refer to the Arabic source which clears up the matter. They will probably tell you Allah's a moon-god too, they'll say anything to make it seem like you don't worship the same god, but you do.

Please, do not argue Oh Muslims. Guide these people into the light. I can see a lot of hatred flowing from these people, this is not their own fault. Most of this is indoctrinated into them as a babe to hate Islam and Muhammed, whilst we are taught to love Jesus and his coming, converts may also develop it like a flu caught from the raven birds. You should understand this as it is not uncommon that a Muslim may develop the same, yet opposite hatred for more insignificant reasons.

But with that I bid you ado.

Peace to you all,

Another hypocrite.

MBaxter:

This very interesting thread seems to be filled more with lousy attempts at libel from the Christian Corner and Not very great research from either, though I was impressed with Frizy's determination and reasoning.

The thread is all about muslims quoting a WELL KNOWN FRAUDULENT book as a way to denigrate the same bible they turn around to force mohammad into.

MBaxter:

Firstly Oh Muslims, the one thing you want to do when inviting Christians to Islam is to get them to follow their own Bible which doesn't teach that Jesus was god. Jesus makes it categorically clear in the Bible that he is not god. Show them those verses first and then guide them unto their own Bible's predictions of the coming of Muhammed. The Gospel of Barnabus is not needed.

Why the desperation to show predictions ONLY from the bible? Has the quran no predictions of its own?
Did not your brothers tell us the bible was corrupted by the pen of the scribes and YET mohammad is still predicted there?

MBaxter:

Just direct them to their own bible, which is corrupted by 400+ contradictions and scientific errors, I know, but still Muslims can discern the truth from what is consistent with their books. Such as the scientific error with the Arc of Noah is corrected by the Quran as it denotes a local flood, not an unlikely world wide one.

How can you discern "truth" in a fraud?

MBaxter:

Once you get them to follow their own book, then you can invite them to the Quran and how it is free of contradiction and error.

Another islamic mule . . . does the sun still set in a muddy spring?

MBaxter:

Please, do not argue Oh Muslims. Guide these people into the light. I can see a lot of hatred flowing from these people, this is not their own fault. Most of this is indoctrinated into them as a babe to hate Islam and Muhammed, whilst we are taught to love Jesus and his coming

A "coming" not predicted by the quran but found only in the bible? What a fraud.
Looking for those indoctrinated to hate? Look at the quran and its prediction of what to do to the jews and people of the book.

For those who deny the Trinity, read this Inspirational Verse

Isaiah 48:16

16Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Read the link below for the explanation.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-E-5.htm



Davidylan, bravo to you. You have done a good job, and to be honest, have learnt another true concept of the Trinity from you. Baptize them in the Name (not Names) of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.  Thanks once again.

@Ndipe:

For those who deny the Trinity, read this Inspirational Verse

Isaiah 48:16

16Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Read the link below for the explanation.

For you who denies that God Almighty is One and therefore claims trinity, by your denial, read John 5 verse 18 with a follow up with Mark 12 verse 29. And if you can see the differences between them and what you have quoted, you need to know in your heart that some verses are lying, and there is no way around the blatant corruptions.

When two friends are taking opposite sides on an issue, definitely, one must be wrong. Now Ndipe, group of Biblical verses is wrong? That is your problem. Now let me tell you, since John 5 Verse 18 tells us that the Jews considered Jesus' statement as blasphemous, it tells us that they never have heard anyone saying he is son of God before, hence claiming to be equal to God. This then opposes any explanation of trying to fit Trinity into the Old Testament. It just doesn't work.

Ndipe, am waiting to see you wearing jilbab. Igbo people are now turning to Islam. You will not be first, my man.

olabowale:

@Ndipe:
For you who denies that God Almighty is One and therefore claims trinity

alhaji, your deliberate attempts to push a lie in our mouths wont work.

Trinity is NOT the denial of God's oneness . . . rather it is an understanding of His 3 distinct manifestations to mankind all through creation.
First He was God the Father (Jehova Jireh)
Next He came in the Flesh (God the Son), God with us (Emmanuel).
Now He is, God IN us (the Holy Spirit).

Egbon, its that simple even a 5yr old can understand.

Until, when (he) reached (the) setting sun percieving it west in a hot (can also mean black or muddy) water.



According to the interpretation written down by the Arabs hundreds of years ago this meant that the Sun was found setting on the horizon to the far west. If you've ever been to a beach you'd understand this verse.



According to Muhammed's personal sayings on the sun he states.



The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing."  (36.38)



Whilst some would be astounded by this and use it to vehemently claim that Muhammed preached of a flat earth and a orbiting sun (instead of an orbiting earth). No sign of any of these notions exist, actually this very anecdote would be more proof that Muhammed himself believed the world was round.



Firstly you must understand that the place the sun is supposed to go to, the Throne of Allah, is over the heavens as taught in Surah, The Cow:



255. (, )His throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them.(, )



The Throne is above or over the Heavens and the Earth. Then why is it that the Sun which appears to go below the earth by the primitive eyes of men is explained as going to the Throne of Allah? This would only make sense if the world was a sphere, which span and had neither an up nor down, by the way, just incase you didn't know it is.



Nevertheless, one would still argue that the sun is explained as going somewhere, i.e. travelling during the sunset and sunrise phase.



Whilst the sun does travel, we know it doesn't go around the earth, which means that the entire statement is allegorical. Not to be taken seriously, nor did the Arabs believe it was. Historical Arab beliefs show nothing of a literal Sun setting in a water, before or after Islam. It's not like they don't know the Quran either, the people memorise it page to page. The explanation of Quran has never displayed this sort of belief by any of the historical scholars. The only people who believe in this interpretation are Christians and Athiests and anyone that wants to libel Islam. Such as a specific person in this thread wants to,  Not mentioning names.



How do we know this is allegorical? Well the entire explanation of the Hadith shows this, such as with the prostration of the Sun, the travelling, the asking permission. Even if you were to argue Muhammed believed the Sun could travel and ask for permission. There is nothing to show that anyone could believe the sun could prostrate.



It's undoubtedly allegorical.



Nevertheless, this thread isn't about truth it's about certain members fear. Notice one particular member, upon seeing any reply he will instantly label the poster that doesn't co-incide with his beliefs as a hypocrite, liar, deciever, fraud and anything else that will help him to believe that his religion is true. This is due to fear, he is afraid that his beliefs will be refuted and rebutted and so that fear leads to anger and he will manipulate that anger with his bias into voraciously tearing away at the most negative words in his mind in order to associate his opponents with deception and deceit and then in doing so he feels a tad bit content with his own beliefs.



You can always see fear in a person for his beliefs, one of the major signs is calling people liars. What's most interesting is that upon my first post he called me a hypocrite.



People like him wont even be able to understand my words here, as a matter of fact I doubt he will make it through most of my post without his mind exploding. There is little we can do to help him other than to ask Allah to guide him and bring him back to, at least, a rationale way.



Ameen

Another hypocrite.

The thread is all about muslims quoting a WELL KNOWN FRAUDULENT book as a way to denigrate the same bible they turn around to force mohammad into.

The book is fraudelent by theory and want. It is fraudelent by content. The students that took part in trying to define why it was fraudelent gave no sparing thought as to whether it had been authentic or not.

Why the desperation to show predictions ONLY from the bible? Has the quran no predictions of its own?
Did not your brothers tell us the bible was corrupted by the pen of the scribes and YET mohammad is still predicted there?

Well I figured you didn't believe in what the Quran had to say, but if you do I could show you how the Quran explains the earth as a sphere, the layers of darkness in the ocean, how milk is produced in the Mammary glands, how rainfall is produced, embryology and much much more, hundreds of years before any "scientist" could define it. But I figured that much wouldn't make much of a difference to you,

So we turn to the bible, 

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

The Lord didn't put his words into any prophet's mouth but Muhammed who was from the brethren of the children of Isaac, the children of Ishmael (Isaac's Brother). Like unto thee (Moses). Jesus was not like Moses, but Muhammed was. Isn't that interesting?

Better yet, Muhummed is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon 5:16. The Hebrew word used there is  Muhammuddim. The end letters  IM is plural of respect majesty and grandeur. Minus  "im" the name would be Muhamud translated as "altogether lovely" in the Authorised Version of the Bible or  'The Praised One' 'the one worthy of Praise' i.e. MUHUMMED!(P.B.You.H)

Also,


AND THE BOOK IS DELIVERED TO HIM THAT IS NOT LEARNED, SAYING, READ THIS I PRAY THEE: AND HE SAITH, I AM NOT LEARNED.(Isaiah 29:12).

Those words are the exact description of Muhammed's (Peace be upon him) first encounter with Gibrael.

There are more, but I get the feeling that this will have little effect on your minds,

How can you discern "truth" in a fraud?

Hey don't put yourself down. Your book isn't a complete fraud,  It's just corrupted, not sure how, but I imagine an animal farm sort of scenario.

Another islamic mule . . . does the sun still set in a muddy spring?

The amount of fear you exhibit is astounding.

A "coming" not predicted by the quran but found only in the bible?  Grin What a fraud.
Looking for those indoctrinated to hate? Look at the quran and its prediction of what to do to the jews and people of the book.

Also found in many anecdotes and traditons from Muhammed actually,  Just so you know.

What does the Quran say we should do to the People of the Book?

For those who deny the Trinity, read this Inspirational Verse

Isaiah 48:16

16Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

And when you're done trying to believe that you can find some real inspiration in these:-

Jesus is not the only son of God, actually we're not exactly sure how many sons he had.

The intelligent explanation is that they're ALL allegorical (No playing favorites now, though I know you will)

'Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD." LUKE 3:38

"That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took wives of all which they chose. ". . when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." GENESIS 6:2 and 4

" . . Thus- saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my FIRSTBORN." EXODUS 4:22

" . . and Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN," JEREMIAH 31:9

" . . Thou (o David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God) BEGOTTEN thee. " PSALMS 2:7   ("BEGOTTEN" How can God beget David at the age of forty? "This day'?)

(f) "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the SONS OF GOD. ' ROMANS 8:14


Think my Christian friends, please,

As for the only Trinity, I was aware there was a verse that half supported it.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.  John 5:7

But then, 9 Christian scholars agreed that was more than likely fabricated.

As for Jesus Divinity, I can only quote a book which covers this topic and leave you with only thought.

A few verses which make it seem as if Jesus had no divinity at all and bring one to question why his divinity is believed.

THE DEVELOPMENT OF "GOD"

Spiritual Development of "God":  "And the child grew, and waxed strong in
spirit, filled with wisdom."  (Luke, 2:40)

Mental, Physical and Moral Development of "God":  "And Jesus increased in
wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man."  (Luke, 2:52)

"God" Was 12 Years Old When His Parents Took Him to Jerusalem:  "Now his
parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.  And when
he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the
feast."  (Luke,  2:41-42)

The Powerless "God" (Jesus) said:  "I can of mine own self do nothing."
(John, 5:30)

"God" Was Ignorant of the Time.  Jesus said:  "But of that day and that hour
knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but
the Father."  (Mark, 13:32)

"God" Was Ignorant of the Season:  "And on the morrow, when they were come
from Bethany, he (Jesus) was hungry:  and seeing a fig tree afar off having
leaves, he came, if haply he might find anything thereon: and when
he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not
yet."  (Mark, 11:12-13)

"God" Was Unlettered: "Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into
the temple, and taught.  And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man
letters, having never learned?"  (John, 7:14-15)

"God" Learnt Through Experience:  "Learned he obedience by the things which
he sufered."  (Hebrews, 5:


THE TEMPTING OF "GOD"

The Devil Tempted "God" For 40 Days:  "And immediately the spirit driveth him
into the wilderness.  And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted
of Satan."  (Mark,  1:12-13)

The Devil Tempted "God" Continuously:  "And when the devil had ended all the
temptation, he departed from him for a season."  (Luke,  4:13)

Like the Sinners, "God" Was Tempted In All Things:  "But (he) was in all
points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."  (Hebrews,  4:15)

True God Cannot be Tempted With Evil:  "God cannot be tempted with evil,
neither tempteth he any man." (James,
1:13)

Only The Ungodly Are Tempted With Evil:  "But every man is tempted, when he
is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."  (James,  1:14)


THE MISSION OF "GOD"

The Confession and Repentance of "God":  before the beginning of his public
ministry:  "Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist" (Matthew,  3:13), "which
signified the confession of sins" (Matthew, 3:6), "and repentance from sins
(Matthew, 3:11).

"God" Did Not Come to Save the Sinners:  "And when he was alone, they that
were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.  And he said unto
them, unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God:  but
unto them that without, all these things are done in  parables:  That seeing
they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not
understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should
be forgiven them."  (Mark,  4:10-12)


THE RACIAL "GOD"

"God" Was a Tribal Jew:  "The lion of the tribe of Juda."  (Revelation, 5:5)

"God" Came For The Jews Only:  "But he answered and said, I am not sent but
unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."  (Matthew, 15:24)

Racial Discrimination of "God":  "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and
commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any
city of the Samaritans enter ye not:  But go rather to the lost sheep of the
house of Israel."  (Matthew, 10:5-6)

According to "God", The Gentiles Are Dogs:  "It is not meet to take the
children's bread, and to cast it to dogs."  (matthew, 15:26)

The Kingdom of "God":  And he (Jesus) shall reign over THE HOUSE OF JACOB for
ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."  (Luke, 1:33)

The Titles of "God":  "The king of the Jews"  (Matthew, 2:2),  "The king of
Israel" (John, 1:49; 12:13)


A "GOD" UNLIKE THE GOD

A Hungry "God":  "And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was
afterward an hungered."  (Matthew 4:2),  "Now in the morning as he returned
into the city, he hungered."  (Matthew, 21:18), "and on the
morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry." (Mark, 11:12)

A Thirsty "God":  "(He) saith, I thirst."  (John, 19:28)

A Sleepy "God":  "He was asleep."  (Matthew, 8:24),  "He fell asleep" (Luke,
8:23), "And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow."
(Mark, 4:38)

A Weary "God":  Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on
the well."  (John,  4:6)

A Groaning "God":  "He groaned in the spirit, and was troubled." (John,
11:33),  "Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave."
(John, 11:38)

A Weeping "God":  "Jesus wept."  (John, 11:35)

A Sorrowing "God":  "And (he) began to be sorrowful and very heavy." (Matthew
26:37).  "Then saith he unto them, my soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto
death."  (Matthew, 26:38)

A Hysterical "God":  "And (he) began to be soreamazed and to be very heavy."
(Mark, 14:33)

A Weak "God":  "And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven,
strengthening him."  (Luke, 22:43)

The thread is all about muslims quoting a WELL KNOWN FRAUDULENT book as a way to denigrate the same bible they turn around to force mohammad into.

What an ugly summary. David when will you learn to cling to truth?

The book is fraudelent by theory and want. It is fraudelent by content. The students that took part in trying to define why it was fraudelent gave no sparing thought as to whether it had been authentic or not.

And what makes you think so. If you've studied the Qu'ran you wont disagree with many things in this book, you openly called fraudelent. Tell me, where is the authetic Bible, david himself knows there isn't. Instead of him to study the word of Christ who he said he love so much, he prefers the deceit in trinity. What an irony, a shame indeed!
Students or anyone can disprove its originality, but there are words of wisdom, and the author of this book to my understanding is not seeking corruption in belief. And I will say it again, The Gospel of Barnabas is written by a discipline and it is true if you may see. Please forget any investigation that says otherwise, of course no Christian or Jew will make any positive investigation that is true when they know its consequences, afterall, we know they all own the media.

Chapter 56 (TITLE UNKNOWN)  

God shall open the book in the hand of his Messenger, and his Messenger reading therein shall call all the angels and prophets and all the elect, and on the forehead of each one shall be written the mark of the Messenger of God. And in the book shall be written the glory of paradise.

Then shall each pass to the right hand of God; next to whom shall sit the Messenger of God. and the prophets shall sit near him, and the saints shall sit near the prophets, and the blessed near the saints, and the angel shall then sound the trumpet, and shall call Satan to judgment.

Chapter 57 REPROBATES AT THE JUDGEMENT

Then that miserable one shall come, and with greatest contumely shall be accused of every creature. Wherefore God shall call the angel Michael, who shall strike him one hundred thousand times with the sword of God. He shall strike Satan, and every stroke is heavy as ten hells, and he shall be the first to be cast into the abyss. The angel shall call his followers, and they shall in like manner be abused and accused. Wherefore the angel Michael, by commission from God, shall strike some a hundred times, some fifty, some twenty, some ten, some five. And then shall they descend into the abyss, because God shall say to them: "Hell is your dwelling-place, O cursed ones."

After that shall be called to judgment all the unbelievers and reprobates, against whom shall first arise all creatures inferior to man, testifying before God how they have served these men, and how the same have outraged God and his creatures. And the prophets every one shall arise, testifying against them; wherefore they shall be condemned by God to infernal flames. Truly I say to you, that no idle lord or thought shall pass unpunished in that tremendous day. Truly I say to you, that the hair-shirt shall shine like the sun, and every louse a man shall have borne for love of God shall be turned into pearl. O, thrice and four times blessed are the poor, who in true poverty shall have served God from the heart, for in this world are they destitute of worldly cares, and shall therefore be freed from many sins, and in that day they shall not have to render an account of how they have spent the riches of the world, but they shall be rewarded for their patience and their poverty. Truly I say to you, that if the world knew his it would choose the hair-shirt sooner than purple, lice sooner than gold, fasts sooner than feasts.

When all have been examined, God shall say to his Messenger: "Behold, O my friend, their wickedness, how great it has been, for I their creator did employ all created things in their service and in all things have they dishonoured me. It is most just, therefore, that I have no mercy on them." The Messenger of God shall answer:, "It is true, Lord, our glorious God, not one of your friends and servants could ask you to have mercy on them; no, I your servant before all ask justice against them."

And he having said these words, all the angels and prophets, with all the elect of God no, why say I the elect? truly I say to you, that spiders and flies, stones and sand shall cry out against the impious, and shall demand justice. Then shall God cause to return to earth every living soul inferior to man, and. he shall send the impious to hell. Who, in going, shall see again that earth, to which dogs and horses and other vile animals shall be reduced. Wherefore shall they say: "O Lord God, cause us also to return to that earth." But that which they ask shall not be granted to them."

Chapter 58 CONCERNING JUDGEMENT

While Jesus was speaking the disciples wept bitterly. And Jesus wept many tears. Then after he had wept, John spoke: "O master, we desire to know two things. The one is, how it is possible that the Messenger of God, who is full of mercy and pity, should have no pity on reprobates that day, seeing that they are of the same clay as himself? The other is, how is it to be understood that the sword of Michael is [as] heavy as ten hells? Is there more than one hell?"

Jesus replied: "Have you not heard what David the prophet says, how the just shall laugh at the destruction of sinners, and shall deride him with these words, saying: I saw the man who put his hope in his strength and his riches, and forgot God. Truly, therefore, I say to you, that Abraham shall deride his father, and Adam [shall deride] all reprobate men: and this shall be because the elect shall rise again so perfect and united to God that they shall not conceive in their minds the small[est] thought against his justice. Each of them shall demand justice, and above all the Messenger of God. As God lives, in whose presence I stand, though now I weep for pity of mankind, on that day I shall demand justice without mercy against those who despise my words, and most of all against those who defile my gospel.

Chapter 59 CONCERNING HELL

Hell is one, O my disciples, and in it the damned shall suffer punishment eternally. Yet has it seven rooms or regions, one deeper than the other, and he who goes to the deep shall suffer greater punishment. Yet my words [are] true concerning the sword of the angel Michael, for he that commits but one sin merits hell, and he that commits two sins merits two hells. Therefore in one hell the reprobates shall feel punishment as though they were in ten, or in a hundred or in a

thousand; and the omnipotent God, through his power and by reason of his justice, shall cause Satan to suffer as though he were in ten hundred thousand hells, and the rest each one according to his wickedness."

Then Peter answered: "O master, truly the justice of God is great, and today this discourse has made you sad; therefore, we pray you, rest, and tomorrow tell us what hell is like." Jesus answered: "O Peter, you tell me to rest; O Peter, you do not know what you say, [or] else you would not have spoken thus.

Truly I say to you, that rest in this present life is the poison of piety and the fire which consumes every good work. Have you forgotten how Solomon, God's prophet, with all the prophets, has reproved sloth? It is true that he says: The idle will not work the soil for fear of the cold, therefore in summer shall he beg. [And for this reason] he said: All that your hand can do, do it without rest. And what says Job, the most innocent friend of God: As the bird is born to fly, man is born to work. Truly I say to you, I hate rest above all things

Sacrament - religious rite.
Madam does it occur to you that christianity is not a religion but a way of life for the apostles who were so christened because they were like Christ? Where in the bible did the apostles talk of sacraments as a rite?

You have clearly missed baptism, isn't that a rite in the Christian faith?
You've also missed reconciliation, isn't this too a rite in the Christian faith?
(I am really waiting for you to say no, so that you can be exposed as a non-christian)

Please ma, you still havent defined what penance is . . . all you've done so far is dance around. You say it is the same as repentance . . . but WHY does it have a special place in the catholic church or where they just playing around with names?

If you discredit penance, you discredit repentance, you discredit reconciliation, you discredit confession. We just happen to have a structure and an actual understanding of reconciliation.

Is it not true that the living can pay money as penance for the dead to absolve them of their sins?

NO.

That's what you've been brainwashed to think. Please pick up your bible, Peter was married, brother Phillip had two daughters who also prophesied . . . why are your priests celibate? The bible talks of the bishops being husbands of one wife (not compulsory) but why is yours radically different?

1 Corinthians 7: 6-9
6But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

7For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

8I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

There are other Bible verses, but this is the one I can think of off head, I will come back later on to add more to this.
Especially the one about virgins being concerned about the things of God and married people be concerned about things of the world, how to please their husband and wife.

Look it is not compulsory for men to be priests they have 10 years to make up their mind. If they want to marry thenthey won't be priests if they don't want to marry then they can become priests.

Now if you will please allow me to finish and stop turning a blind eye to what I post before you.
If you want we can tackle each issue one by one until we go through each of them. Since you don't have patience.
Let me know which one you want to tackle first.

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew 7:28
And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine
Mark 1:22
And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes

The doctrines that are being taught today are the doctrines that were taught then. Unless you want to claim that the doctrines taught by the disciples and apostles are doctrines of men. Well there goes your basis of truth.

Parish, christian community, mass . . . brilliant religious words . . . empty of spiritual meaning.

Then the basis of your belief in empty

perhaps you're reading something else

Where have your priests done as the apostles by going to the uttermost parts of the earth to preach the gospel rather than cocoon themselves in stone buildings?
Where have they gone out healing the sick, raising the dead and casting out unclean spirits?
Where have they cleansed lepers and cast out demons?
Why are they so fixated on forgiving sins and hearing confessions? Why do they want to usurp the authority of the Holy Spirit?

Your words not mine.

Those candles are there for a reason . . . if you don't know its ok to say so instead of prevaricating.
Look at the ridiculous examples you bring up, is a bed placed in front of every church?

One more time, HAHAHA DUDE YOU REALLY THINK CANDLES ARE USED TO DRIVE OUT DEMONS.
Almighty, since you know why don't you share with us the reason they're there.

Demons are not driven out in front of a church.

Being a pastor isnt my calling. Just 2 examples:
- Vicarius Filli Dei
- confessions

I asked for proof, where is it?

sigh. What has this got to do with the issues? If my pastor sins why should i remain under one with whom the anointing is departed? He will answer for his iniquity on the last day.

Atheists also do charity not so? What is the difference between they and mother Theresa? not much especially for a woman who once confessed feeling spiritually empty

I asked because you gave a non chalant attitude as to the actions of your pastor, so I asked if you don't care that means you will remain in his church learning from him even while he is doing all these things. But thanks for your answer. I am satisfied.

The difference is that they don't believe or have faith in God.

This isnt about me. Seems this discussion is pettering out into silliness. If you can't biblically address the issues just say so.

HAHAHA Dude you've been silly from the beginning and this is about you, it is about me and it is about the Church. Remember "they shall all be one, just as you and me are one?" When you decided on Christianity you joined the Church.

I have bibically addressed the issues and have used common sense but you lack both, and that's why we're still going on about it. You also lack patience, you should really ask the Spirit for that gift.

Madam . . . wedding rites and funeral rites are not mandatory church/biblical "rites". Please show me where Peter was performing elaborate burial rites? How did Mary and Martha bury Lazarus? Who was the minister in charge?
When Christ was buried, who preached the sermon at His gravesite?

I marvel at the level to which manmade nonsense has insidously entered christendom.

oh man I wish I had my Bible with me, I would open up the passages for you so that your eyes can be open, and you calim to read the Bible, shame on you. I will definitely come and post it up.

Read it again and stop asking frivolous questions.

Since I don't know the truth, why don't you tell me?
That's what's wrong with Christians today, when someone asks a question they jump and say read on it, well maybe the person read on it and doesn't understand, isn't that when you come in and explain?
Funny the Church explains everything in great detail for anyone to understand and she's underscrutiny for it.
Those who criticise are asked to explain then, but all they do is say read.

If you said you would call tomorrow and failed to because of circumstances beyond your control would that qualify as offending Christ?

If it offends you, YES!!!

Forgiveness is by the blood and blood alone . . . did Christ give you His blood to dispense as you will too?

Jesus already shed his blood and then was able to send them as the Father sent him. Look cling to the passage your clinging to and forsake the other passages in the Bible, that is entirely your own.

Since you know the truth, will you please give a "proper" interpretation of the Bible verses and stop pointing blame. Since you have knowledge share it.

your heresy is what is clear as day. Read your bible instead of relying on mass only.

I doubt you read the Bible more than I do.

I didnt put the verse there, ask Christ when you see Him.

Oh but you believe that verse, infact you even quoted the verse for me.
So why not explain it to me, since I lack knowledge.

Every man born of water and of the spirit and filled with the Holy Ghost has the authority to minister the gospel

Yet Timothy was given a charge and the Bible doesn't fail to highlight that. If you're going to be giving examples or qouting scripture the least you could do is understand it and back it up with explanations. Running won't do any good.
Ididn't bring up Timothy, you did to prove a point, well it has backfired on you.

What does apostle mean by the way?

Oh Lord. We have the power to lay hands on others to recieve the Holy Spirit . . . we are NOT the givers but merely the vessels through which it is given.

Oh for real? I thought that Christ was the one who could baptise with the Spirit. Infact John the Baptist wasn't even fit to loosen his sandals.
Matthew 3:11
11"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

How then could these mere men who are not God able to baptise with the Spirit when even John the Baptist couldn't?

Maybe it's because as the Father sent Christ so Christ sent the Disciples, so the things that Christ could do the disciples could do too. As the Father charged Christ, so Christ charged the disciples.

The words you use are also used for forgiveness, we are not the givers but the vessels through which it is given.

Forgiveness of sin (which is eternally of confusion to you) is by the blood. Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Hehehe look yourself in the mirror.

Madam this is clear as daylight except to the spiritually blind . . . the remission of sins can only occur through the blood of a testator. Please read the entire book of Hebrews to see why you don't have the power to forgive sins because YOU are not the testator neither are you the one who shed blood for sin.

So is this: As the Father sent me, so I send you, received the Spirit, whose sins you forgive are forgiven them and whose sins you do not forgive are not forgiven them

Biko nu, why would Christ encourage the disciples not to forgive sins when he's already said if you forgive, the Father will forgive you too, so why would he go against his own teaching here (with your interpretation, Christ goes against his own teaching)

Why do you think the pharisees thot Christ blasphemed for telling the lame man his sins were forgiven him? Didnt they know that everyone could forgive sin?

Now imagine this coming from your own mouth about the disciples and apostles and priests today. Do you see that you sound just like a Pharisee?
If not your're in denial.

Christ! Even the pharisees werent these blind!

I agree

Its up to you to show us in the pages of the bible not in the pages of some pope's notes.

When did I quote a Pope?
When did 1Peter 3:18-20 become Popes notes?
18For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

19in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,

20who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

Are you sure you're not blind?

we don't. if we had the power Christ would not have come. Why do you think the old testament jews needed the blood of bulls and goats once a yr? why could they not just attend mass and have the prophet absolve them of their sins?

But you're accusing the Catholics of it.
Are you sure you don't have multiple personalities, or amnesia, because you're beginning to forget what you say.

I don't mind being naive, its better than being blind. There is judgement for sin which is death. That we are not struck dead the minute we open our mouths to lie is by the mercy and grace of our Father.
I can't believe a christian still have problems with such simple issues as this.
The fact that grace abounds does not mean we shld abuse it and believe we will always be safe even when we sin . . . read Paul's brilliant expose on this in Romans 6.

You know what you are a hypocrite. YES!!!! I AM CALLING YOU OUT. You accuse me of not answering your questions, which I have done, but you have not answered my questions. Stop dodging and answer. or has the Spirit convicted you already?

Ah when we lose coherence we resort to abuse? reminds me of blabs787, and to think YOU were busy criticizing him when you were basically clueless about your own scriptures. 

Answer the questions and stop being daft.

A primary school child wont reason this way.   God didnt do creation all over again, He created man in His own image, man fell and God had to find a way to redeem man to Himself again . . . duh!

Oh but with your reasoning He did. So are you smarter than a 5th grader?lol.

I'm not hiding any face ma'am . . . rather YOU are the one dodging issues

oh yes, I've been dodging issues by answering your questions, whereas you haven't been dodging issues by not answering my questions.
Smart reasoning eh.

Madam those where the questions until you decietfully tried to turn this into meaningless brickbats!

If I show you where I answered your questions would you apologise for lying?

typical olabowale . . . "now address this issue" as if she addressed the real issues that initially precipitated the discourse. Start with the questions asked you first.

Quite frankly I have more respect for Olabowale, he at least knows what and why he believes in what he believes. You are just a lost puupy.

Perhaps English language was invented in their day? What a dumb assertion. Where is vicarius filli dei in your bible?
Where is penance in your bible? Where is purgatory in your bible? where is mary refered to as queen of heaven in your bible?

Yet it was your defense. How can something you use to defend your belief come back to haunt you? Isn't it the truth?

~Lady~:

You have clearly missed baptism, isn't that a rite in the Christian faith?
You've also missed reconciliation, isn't this too a rite in the Christian faith?
(I am really waiting for you to say no, so that you can be exposed as a non-christian)

[size=28pt]NO![/size]

They are NOT rites, its like saying salvation is a rite, its like saying Christ's crucifiction on the cross was a rite.
This is how the dictionary defines a rite - a prescribed form or manner governing the words or actions for a ceremony

This is how the bible defines baptism - Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Ma'am . . . it is NOT a rite, it is the outward symbolism of burying the old man that we may be raised in the newness of life just as Christ was.
Baptism in the bible is spoken of in two forms - baptism of water (Romans 6:4/the baptism of John), baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Which of those is a rite?

Lazarus was not baptised, the thief on the cross wasnt baptised . . . which of them went to hell?

where again ma'am are the answers to the 6 questions i asked earlier? Dodging as usual while pretending to be asking questions?

Please ma, you still havent defined what penance is . . . all you've done so far is dance around. You say it is the same as repentance . . . but WHY does it have a special place in the catholic church or where they just playing around with names?

I am re-posting this =>

I was once told that, during a church service, Pastor Adeboye told his congregation that he had a vision from God. In that vision, it was revealed to him that, if rapture was to occur, only 7 of them in that church service would make it to heaven.
This got me thinking. How could it be that a large majority of his church congregation, who claim CONFESS DIRECTLY TO GOD, were NOT acceptable to God?. So much for bible reading and cramming.