Henry240:


Yes it is, infact it is one of the major factors that lead to general growth of South-Africa's Defence industry. Apartheid South-Africa and Rhodesia were considered as European "brotherly" countries, by the Europeans. The Israelis saw South-Africa as a fellow brother-in-arms, as they considered Apartheid South-Africa as been in the same situation as them (surrounded by hostile locals), hence the partnership.

The Portuguese government actively smuggled Super Puma parts and general Helicopter parts for the Apartheid regime. So to come here and claim the growth of South-Africa's defence industry is down to ingenuity is downright ludicrous and absolute rubbish.


When the British left Nigeria in 1960, my Country had a literacy rate of 5% or under, and virtually no infrastructure. This isn't the case for you South-Africans as the settlers arrived the South-African shores to settle there, and not to plunder and leave.

So yes, you having a large defence industry is down to massive european support and having a significant head start.


By the way, Egypt has the largest Defence Industry in Africa, they are already ahead, and the Moroccans and Algerians aren't far behind.

jln115:

Seems like you are classifying us white South Africans as Europeans, which we most certainly are not! White and Black settlers in SA arrived only a 100 years or so apart, only the Koi San were true inhabitants of SA. Also don't forget the British came here to! 1st and 2nd Boere War, Anglo Zulu War, ring a bell??

Anyway getting back to the point, most of your so called European support vanished during the mid 70s, and thus left us no choice to develop our own weapon systems, even if it meant reverse engineering several European weapons systems , Mirage, Centurion Tank, Puma to distinctly South African systems which we had to maintain ourselves, thus building spares ourselves. Also things like HMDs MRAPs were developed by South Africa before any other country, not to mention at that time(and presently) we were world leaders in the Aerospace industry, developing ATGMs, AAMs, SAMs that the west could only dream of!

The head start your talking about was distinctly down to circumstance, not due to help from Europe.

And lastly NO, Egypt do not have the largest defence industry, in terms of sales and production no African country comes near SA!

africaken:
please educate me about what is unique about your ATGM !

frumentius:


You mean this graduation ceremony?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py9TPwrHpok

jln115:

Its quite simple mate! Its just better!! In the 80s there was nothing compared to the Ingwe in terms of capability! It had better range, better penetration than anything on the market at that stage, just last week Egypt concluded a contract for Ingwe missiles for their EC635, not bad for a missile designed in the 80s, although it has been upgraded through out the years.

africaken:
ingwe is a copy of Israel MAPAT ,which is also a copy of TOW ATGM.Nothing unique in concept with the rest of ATGM's in the world tandem warhead

frumentius:
Our Namibian cousins faced radio shortages when placed under sanctions for joining Zimbabwe in Kabila's fight with Rwanda and Uganda. Did they kvetch and moan, buy inferior products at inflated prices in dodgy deals? No. Being Southern Africans they knuckled down and manufactured their own. Now look at the results:

"Namibian company Sat-Com is manufacturing hundreds of radios for the Namibian Defence Force (NDF) and recently received an export order for several hundred as it markets its range across Africa."
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40191

Henry240:


I see there is a tactic, subtle jab at Nigeria in your comment. However, for the sake of clarifications, we aren't moaning/crying, we are only stating the facts as they are and moving along with introducing Nigerian Systems into the Nigerian COIN effort, they are and not limited to the Drones built, IED disposal robots, Rocket Pods for our LUH, PDM, up-grade and resuscitation Nigerian Airforce platforms, from Transport planes to Light attack Jets, and introduction of multiple Nigerian Armoured Vehicles and Personal soldier gear.

jln115:


Dude I never said it was unique, I said it was better, which it is.....If you call it a copy then im going to call every single HDM and MRAP designed a copy of the original South African design!

Henry240:


Yeah that's it, thanks for Identifying the Vehicle. I think it's an Egyptian made Vehicle or from the UAE.


I've always advocated the use of similar Vehicles for COIN in Nigeria, as it affords us the opportunities to note only reduce some of the soft skins we have in service, but to, most importantly patronize/increase the base of the number of local vehicles the military has in it's inventory.


It is gratifying to see the Egyptians using them.

jln115:

How?

overhypedsteve:
Did they kvetch and moan, buy inferior products at inflated prices in dodgy deals? No. Being Southern Africans they knuckled down and manufactured their own. Now look at the results:
That is how

africaken:
if its better tell us how ,is it top attack,greater range,better penetration of armour e.t.c and then give us the link for us to proof what your saying .the truth is your loosing a big chunk of your defence market ,to some of new upcoming weapons manufacturers.consider drone you were in the same league in the 90's with countries like israel,US,Europeans e.t.c but today !

jln115:

Our defense industry is one of the biggest in the world and has grown steadily since 1994. It was impossible for us to sell weapon systems to other countries before 1994...So what market did we loose when we had none in the first place?

The Ingwe has/had a range of 5km and could penetrate more than a 1000m of RHA, show me any ATGM that had those capabilities in the 80s.

africaken:
israel MAPAT first revealed in 1984 ,range 6 km and can penetrate 1,200 mm of RHA. the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAPATS

jln115:

Do you have a other link mate!! I really don't care much what Wikipedia states, as any fvck that has access to the internet can change Wikipedia .

africaken:
http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=167

jln115:

only pre 1990 models of the MAPAT had a 6km range after they upgraded the propulsion system, Also it only had a 30 degree elevation on its traverse system.

africaken:
even the ingwe has being improved from when it was initial introduced .it has also being claimed that it was offered with iraq EC635 .which was false

frumentius:


You mean this graduation ceremony?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py9TPwrHpok

Henry240:


Yes it is, infact it is one of the major factors that lead to general growth of South-Africa's Defence industry. Apartheid South-Africa and Rhodesia were considered as European "brotherly" countries, by the Europeans. The Israelis saw South-Africa as a fellow brother-in-arms, as they considered Apartheid South-Africa as been in the same situation as them (surrounded by hostile locals), hence the partnership.

The Portuguese government actively smuggled Super Puma parts and general Helicopter parts for the Apartheid regime. So to come here and claim the growth of South-Africa's defence industry is down to ingenuity is downright ludicrous and absolute rubbish.


When the British left Nigeria in 1960, my Country had a literacy rate of 5% or under, and virtually no infrastructure. This isn't the case for you South-Africans as the settlers arrived the South-African shores to settle there, and not to plunder and leave.

So yes, you having a large defence industry is down to massive european support and having a significant head start.


By the way, Egypt has the largest Defence Industry in Africa, they are already ahead, and the Moroccans and Algerians aren't far behind.