maclatunji:

With all due respect, the bolded seems more like the figment of your imagination. Look at Anambra state for example, the number of gubernatorial candidates within the PDP (19 as at my last time I heard) alone is dazzling. Imagine if they were contesting for the position of President, it would be something bigger than what we currently have. The crisis that rocked APGA for years and the divisions within the Ohaneze Ndigbo are other pointers to the fact that an independent "Igbo" state may not benefit its people as much as you claim. I could make similar arguments for other tribes as well.

The above post clearly suggested the poster is a novice to democracy. What has number of aspiring candidates got to do with good governance? If you want monarchal government please say so and stop hiding behind craps to fan your political ego. It is only a fool that thinks everything runs smooth when more than one individual is involved in decision making.

DerideGull:


The above post clearly suggested the poster is a novice to democracy. What has number of aspiring candidates got to do with good governance? If you want monarchal government please say so and stop hiding behind craps to fan your political ego. It is only a fool that thinks everything runs smooth when more than one individual is involved in decision making.

If 19 people and counting are jostling for the gubernatorial ticket of one party, it only goes to show one thing- "a lack of uniformity of purpose". You can explain it as "democracy", but insightful people know how to read in-between the lines to see that the people in question are mostly self-serving and over-ambitious. This is my point.

BlackPikiN: When Naija wins a soccer game, you will hear up naija everywhere on the internet as soon as the euphoria is over, Igbos go back to your jungle, Igbos you are the devil in Nigeria. Igbo and wayo.

If you feel you have the audacity to go your separate way, do it and receive the consequences from the Nigeria military.
declare you know fit but na to dey shout like nama all the time.

You are wrong,they tag super eagles BIAFRAN TEAM BY THE WAY,BIAFRAN TEAM JUST WON MANDELAS CUP.ANYTHING TAGGED (BIAFRA) BRING SUCCESS

maclatunji:

If 19 people and counting are jostling for the gubernatorial ticket of one party, it only goes to show one thing- "a lack of uniformity of purpose". You can explain it as "democracy", but insightful people know how to read in-between the lines to see that the people in question are mostly self-serving and over-ambitious. This is my point.

You're dead wrong. The more people that are allowed to participate in the political process, the more democratic that process is said to be. What do you want to a party to tell an aspiring governor for example? That "We want a uniformity of purpose, so you can't contest". It's left for whoever chooses to contest and the electorate will make their choice at the end of the day. That's the beauty of democracy.

Afam4eva:
You're dead wrong. The more people that are allowed to participate in the political process, the more democratic that process is said to be. What do you want to a party to tell an aspiring governor for example? That "We want a uniformity of purpose, so you can't contest". It's left for whoever chooses to contest and the electorate will make their choice at the end of the day. That's the beauty of democracy.

The party does not have to say anything. However, the situation does reflect the mentality of the people involved- "I" over "We" which is the point I am trying to make. For as long as individuals place themselves ahead of the group (people), the problems of the masses will not be solved even if your divide Nigeria into 1000 independent states.

maclatunji:

The party does not have to say anything. However, the situation does reflect the mentality of the people involved- "I" over "We" which is the point I am trying to make. For as long as individuals place themselves ahead of the group (people), the problems of the masses will not be solved even if your divide Nigeria into 1000 independent states.

So, the problem is, who steps down for who? Everyone thinks they're more qualified to lead a state and you're saying some people should step down which invariably means that they're accepting not to be good enough compared to the other candidates. If i'm good for the job then i will make sure i contest and if i don't win then i'll support whoever emerged the winner. You guys have to understand the tenents of democracy. We should make do with the whole concensus candidate that keeps rapin-g our democratic existence.

A lot of problems but not all will be solved if Nigeria is divided. That's the truth. A lot of our problems stems from the fact that we were foisted to live together without us agreeing to live together. Imagine you been forced to live with a roomate who has a different idiosyncrasies from you and keeps annoying you and vice-versa. What will you do? Will you remain with that roommate saying that things won't be better if you get your own room or will you simply get your own room and be free from the troubles of this roommate and only have to deal with your own personal troubles. This analogy just points to the fact that a lot of problems facing Nigeria will be reduced to the barest minimum should NIgeria be divided. That's not to say a united Nigeria cannot also work but it's just that the leaders are not serious. Imagine a situation where a student from a state has to score over 400 percent more than a student from another state and you tell me why the former will not be angry. If we must remain Nigerians then we have to come together and discuss the way forward and stop decieving ourselves with this fake unity. It goes beyond our musicians releasing unity songs every now and then. We have to be unified through the constitutio, and not make any group feel shortchanged.

OKWU

Mr O P, by helping them realize all their problem does not start and end with the fact that people of other ethnic group are in power or rule over them directly and indirectly.

Afam4eva:
So, the problem is, who steps down for who? Everyone thinks they're more qualified to lead a state and you're saying some people should step down which invariably means that they're accepting not to be good enough compared to the other candidates. If i'm good for the job then i will make sure i contest and if i don't win then i'll support whoever emerged the winner. You guys have to understand the tenents of democracy. We should make do with the whole concensus candidate that keeps rapin-g our democratic existence.

I think it is safe to assume that all of the 19 candidates in the party in question are all Igbo. Now, let us look at it as a test of an imaginary "Igbo" state. Are you telling me that all 19 candidates have identically capacities and support base for the position of governor (President?)? Surely, most of them will know those that are better qualified and equipped for the position. The only thing keeping them going is "selfish" interest.

Afam4eva:
A lot of problems but not all will be solved if Nigeria is divided. That's the truth. A lot of our problems stems from the fact that we were foisted to live together without us agreeing to live together. Imagine you been forced to live with a roomate who has a different idiosyncrasies from you and keeps annoying you and vice-versa. What will you do? Will you remain with that roommate saying that things won't be better if you get your own room or will you simply get your own room and be free from the troubles of this roommate and only have to deal with your own personal troubles. This analogy just points to the fact that a lot of problems facing Nigeria will be reduced to the barest minimum should NIgeria be divided. That's not to say a united Nigeria cannot also work but it's just that the leaders are not serious. Imagine a situation where a student from a state has to score over 400 percent more than a student from another state and you tell me why the former will not be angry. If we must remain Nigerians then we have to come together and discuss the way forward and stop decieving ourselves with this fake unity. It goes beyond our musicians releasing unity songs every now and then. We have to be unified through the constitutio, and not make any group feel shortchanged.

I suspect that Nigeria's problems will be exacerbated if those calling for its division have executive power of a President and an army to back-it up. Old rivalries within ethnic groups would emerge and instead of having one problematic country, the world would have 3 problematic countries to deal with. These countries would almost certainly be at war with each other over boundary demarcation and resources. I venture to add the Africa cannot afford such a scenario.

It is not like we are completely without experience of what might happen in case of secession- many Non-Igbos claimed marginalisation in what was Biafra. If Biafra survived, I am sure you would have had a potent Ijaw/Niger-Delta Independence movement that would most likely be violent. I really see those who promote breaking Nigeria as very misguided observers of Nigeria and its problems.

maclatunji:

I think it is safe to assume that all of the 19 candidates in the party in question are all Igbo. Now, let us look at it as a test of an imaginary "Igbo" state. Are you telling me that all 19 candidates have identically capacities and support base for the position of governor (President?)? Surely, most of them will know those that are better qualified and equipped for the position. The only thing keeping them going is "selfish" interest.

So being Igbos means that they must all have the same ideology? How will someone know that someone is more qualified than him thereby he should give up his candidature. Isn't qualification supposed to be decided by the electorate? If i tell you(Mclatunji) that i'm more qualified than you to be made a supermod alongside Mukina, will you agree with me? I guess not. Everyone thinks they have something unique to offer and will never agree that someone is more qualified than them.

maclatunji:
I suspect that Nigeria's problems will be exacerbated if those calling for its division have executive power of a President and an army to back-it up. Old rivalries within ethnic groups would emerge and instead of having one problematic country, the world would have 3 problematic countries to deal with. These countries would almost certainly be at war with each other over boundary demarcation and resources. I venture to add the Africa cannot afford such a scenario.

It is not like we are completely without experience of what might happen in case of secession- many Non-Igbos claimed marginalisation in what was Biafra. If Biafra survived, I am sure you would have had a potent Ijaw/Niger-Delta Independence movement that would most likely be violent. I really see those who promote breaking Nigeria as very misguided observers of Nigeria and its problems.

Pls no Igbos claimed marginalization in Biafra. It's some minorities that claimed to be marginalized and they say so cos they felt there was an agenda of Igbos to take over everything in that country and that's why some of them fought on the side of Nigeria(another evil that they thought they had to embrace at that moment). It's still the same thing we're saying. In order to live peacefully, we have to discuss the way forward and everyone will have to agree to it. There's no need forcing people to be part of a union that they feel does not benefit them. I'm sure Ijaws also will want to have their own country likewise some other groups that may feel that they will be marginalized by bigger groups. That's the fact of life. And as far as country demarcations goes,it's something that will be discussed on a roundtable. No one will be forced into a union like in the case of Nigeria and even if problems were to arise, it would never be as bad as it is in Nigeria. It seems you guys are not aware of how many groups make up this country yet the country is being run like a local government. The best system of government for a gargantuan country like Nigeria is for every unit to be allowed to cater for themselves to some extent while the FG focuses on external issues and oversight.

bakassi peninsula is now gone to Cameroon all because of keeping nigeria one.Let wait and see which side of the north will go after boko haram insurgency... nigeria is shrinking slowly

DerideGull: Brilliancy without discipline amounts to dunce. Country which does not entice patriotism among its populace is less than a jungle. Mere sense of patriotism will eradicate certain social decadence without prosecutorial risk.

Thanks a million!
This is exactly the major issue bedeviling Nigeria, but they are busy chasing shadows like "fighting" corruption.
yet, only to turn around to offer admission to those who scored 2 while those who scored 138 are denied the same admission. It is hilarious!

Please, are you a Biafran?
You are reasoning like one!

I think part of the problem is this use of the term "tribe". I think terming the Hausa, Yoruba and Igbo as "tribes" is the equivalent to calling the Irish and Scottish tribes. They too big to be considered tribes. Ethnic group appears to be the proper term.

Now how do you get the different ethnic groups to forfeit their distinct identities for the sake of one Nigeria, which was sort of imposed on them? Proponents of one Nigeria are requesting no small thing. To be truly Nigerian (and not just in name only) means to forfeit a lot of one's distinct ethnic identity. This must happen to create a common culture, which without, no true unity can arise. We must remove all concepts such as Igboland and Yorubaland. Again, this is no small thing to ask.

As to Nigeria's success, I'm not optimistic. History shows that multiethnic states (the likes of Nigeria) are difficult to maintain and eventually. We need to stop dismissing the differences between Nigeria's ethnic groups as merely tribal. In many cases, the culture, language and history predate Nigeria by centuries. They deserve to be taken seriously.

Afam4eva:
So being Igbos means that they must all have the same ideology? How will someone know that someone is more qualified than him thereby he should give up his candidature. Isn't qualification supposed to be decided by the electorate? If i tell you(Mclatunji) that i'm more qualified than you to be made a supermod alongside Mukina, will you agree with me? I guess not. Everyone thinks they have something unique to offer and will never agree that someone is more qualified than them.

That makes the total number just 2 of us. It would be farcical for you or me not to know that out of 19 moderators, some are more qualified than others. And even if we did not know, we don't have people that would tell us that it is only one person that would get the ticket? Hence we should support one of the others or they should support us? How was the last Moderator of the year selected? Did every moderator vote for himself/herself? How come at National level the PDP never seems to have 19 people wanting to be President at the same time? Isn't this a case of the smaller you get, the more fierce the competition gets?

Afam4eva:

Pls no Igbos claimed marginalization in Biafra. It's some minorities that claimed to be marginalized and they say so cos they felt there was an agenda of Igbos to take over everything in that country and that's why some of them fought on the side of Nigeria(another evil that they thought they had to embrace at that moment). It's still the same thing we're saying. In order to live peacefully, we have to discuss the way forward and everyone will have to agree to it. There's no need forcing people to be part of a union that they feel does not benefit them. I'm sure Ijaws also will want to have their own country likewise some other groups that may feel that they will be marginalized by bigger groups. That's the fact of life. And as far as country demarcations goes,it's something that will be discussed on a roundtable. No one will be forced into a union like in the case of Nigeria and even if problems were to arise, it would never be as bad as it is in Nigeria. It seems you guys are not aware of how many groups make up this country yet the country is being run like a local government. The best system of government for a gargantuan country like Nigeria is for every unit to be allowed to cater for themselves to some extent while the FG focuses on external issues and oversight.

So because of the first bolded we might have to divide Nigeria into 10,000 hamlets so that no one feels "marginalised".

@Second bolded. At the bottom of it all, he finally gets my point.

Ezigbo2010: I think part of the problem is this use of the term "tribe". I think terming the Hausa, Yoruba and Igbo as "tribes" is the equivalent to calling the Irish and Scottish tribes. They too big to be considered tribes. Ethnic group appears to be the proper term.

Now how do you get the different ethnic groups to forfeit their distinct identities for the sake of one Nigeria, which was sort of imposed on them? Proponents of one Nigeria are requesting no small thing. To be truly Nigerian (and not just in name only) means to forfeit a lot of one's distinct ethnic identity. This must happen to create a common culture, which without, no true unity can arise. We must remove all concepts such as Igboland and Yorubaland. Again, this is no small thing to ask.

As to Nigeria's success, I'm not optimistic. History shows that multiethnic states (the likes of Nigeria) are difficult to maintain and eventually. We need to stop dismissing the differences between Nigeria's ethnic groups as merely tribal. In many cases, the culture, language and history predate Nigeria by centuries. They deserve to be taken seriously.

I disagree with the bolded, there is absolutely no need to lose your ethnic identity, it is who you are. However, what Nigeria needs is a systemic overhaul that guarantees certain benefits for all of its citizens irrespective of ethnicity (as you would rather put it) and religion.

If Nigeria guarantees its citizens:

1. A quality education to the minimum of secondary level.

2. Security of lives and property to a large extent. (Crime can never be 0).

3. Standard healthcare.

4. Good road and transportation links.

I am more than certain that most agitations for secession would die naturally.

maclatunji:


That makes the total number just 2 of us. It would be farcical for you or me not to know that out of 19 moderators, some are more qualified than others. And even if we did not know, we don't have people that would tell us that it is only one person that would get the ticket? Hence we should support one of the others or they should support us? How was the last Moderator of the year selected? Did every moderator vote for himself/herself? How come at National level the PDP never seems to have 19 people wanting to be President at the same time? Isn't this a case of the smaller you get, the more fierce the competition gets?

So, is PDP now a measure of democracy? That PDP does something doesn't make it right. Maybe you'll say ACN is more democratic because they don't even contest elections at all instead picking the anointed candidate. Democracy as it's define is "government of the people, by the people and for the people". This invariably means that the people will have to make their choice out of several candidates and the more choices they have the better.

maclatunji:
So because of the first bolded we might have to divide Nigeria into 10,000 hamlets so that no one feels "marginalised".

@Second bolded. At the bottom of it all, he finally gets my point.

I made mention of coming together to discuss the way forward. If a place called Gbongan in Osun state feels they want their own country, who are we to say no? You don't force things down people's throats. They know what they want and how to go about it, so it's best to let them be. Your best bet would be giving them the reasons why they should remain in Nigeria.

maclatunji:

I disagree with the bolded, there is absolutely no need to lose your ethnic identity, it is who you are. However, what Nigeria needs is a systemic overhaul that guarantees certain benefits for all of its citizens irrespective of ethnicity (as you would rather put it) and religion.

If Nigeria guarantees its citizens:

1. A quality education to the minimum of secondary level.

2. Security of lives and property to a large extent. (Crime can never be 0).

3. Standard healthcare.

4. Good road and transportation links.

I am more than certain that most agitations for secession would die naturally.

Are you implying that these things are only guaranteed in Nigeria. What exactly do you have against dividing a country? I for one, i'm not proponent for division of even the opposite, i'm just stating the advantages of the former.

Afam4eva:
Are you implying that these things are only guaranteed in Nigeria. What exactly do you have against dividing a country? I for one, i'm not proponent for division of even the opposite, i'm just stating the advantages of the former.

Read through the thread again. My points against secession are outlined in different posts. The summary is that the ethnic or even religious differences amongst Nigerians are not the problems militating against the progress of Nigeria and her people but the systemic inefficiency and corruption that seem to hold them hostage are.

maclatunji:

Read through the thread again. My points against secession are outlined in different posts. The summary is that the ethnic or even religious differences amongst Nigerians are not the problems militating against the progress of Nigeria and her people but the systemic inefficiency and corruption that seem to hold them hostage are.

Nigeria has a lot of problems and a lot of them has a lot to do with the structure of the country and if the structural problem is corrected, the problems will reduce. Corruption is also a major problem that will definitely persist should Nigeria be divided but the point here is that the problems that we'll have to deal with will be reduced to corruption and a few bottlenecks.

Afam4eva:
Nigeria has a lot of problems and a lot of them has a lot to do with the structure of the country and if the structural problem is corrected, the problems will reduce. Corruption is also a major problem that will definitely persist should Nigeria be divided but the point here is that the problems that we'll have to deal with will be reduced to corruption and a few bottlenecks.

We agree...

We may have to admit that the sacrifice of keeping Nigeria is too much for ordinary Nigerians across all tribes and ethnic groupings. The country as it is today benefit the political class across all segments and their economic benefactors.
I have a strong support for a Nigeria in which all agitations can be realized. A Nigeria where Igbo can achieve Biafra, demonstrate their allegiance and grow their dreams, a Nigeria where Yoruba can grow and nurture their Union of Omoluabi States or Oduduwa Republic, a Nigeria where Hausa/Fulani can achieve an islamic identity if they so wished, a Nigeria where we can have states,autonomous regions and ethnic provinces fulfilling their dreams!
We can!!!!!!!!!!!! we can achieve this but obviously it will change the status quo and that is why the powers that be of today do not want.
I am a strong advocate of expanding states to bring under a single umbrella major ethnic groups into single states while referendum can be held to decide for some controversial areas e.g. Ikwerre and Anioma to be part of Biafra or Ndigbo, Itsekiri & Edo(may be to also include Akoko Edo, Owan,Siloko etc) to be part of Yoruba or Oduduwa. Small ethnic groups that can ,prove their economic viabilities like majority in the Niger Delta can evolve as autonomous regions/province like the Ogoni, Ijaw, Ikwerre(if they vote against being Ndigbo) while bigger and similar groups from Akwa Ibom to Cross River can be a state. All internal administrations are to be designed by indigents of those states while they control their lands and all resources on and inside their lands and those off their coasts and federal tax will be levied to cater for federal functions we can be up to 25% depending on which resource or product as agreed in Abuja.
Under this system we can have a vast Arewa Emirate from Sokoto through Zaria to northern Bauchi and northern Gombe while minorities across the middle Belt can evolve into two or three large provinces/states/regions with internal structures that set ethnic groups into districts or any named administrative structure. To me, under this arrangement, I will ,like to see an autonomous Nok region in the middle Belt comprising southern Kaduna groups, Plateau southern Bauchi and Gombe minorities and may be up to southern Borno .The Tiv can be a region while political alignments, economic survivors and ethnic similarities will bring other groups together with a cohensive sense of purpose driven by a common agenda of survivor.
We will be faced by massive income gap especially that oil producing states will suddenly become very wealthy it was the same in the history of America and until we are able to face our fears we may not be able to move forward.An account may be created to cater for non oil as a decade long intervention for sustainable may be 10% oil and gas income can go into that.
This will engender ethnocentric feeling at the initial stage and with time people will begin to see the need for others to boost their economies.This will bring about competitions and massive innovations and the result will be for the benefit of Nigerians. This may be strange but I believe it will help.

^Worth looking into.

maclatunji: ^Worth looking into.

does sovereignty belongs to the people?

Tolexander: show us how the countries that formed the defunct USSR are better than the USSR!

I don't need to show you anything. Google should do a better job for you.
Lithuania,Estonia,Latvia,Georgia,Ukraine,Belarus,Moldova,Azerbaijan,Kyrgyzstan,Uzbekistan,Tajikistan,Armenia,Turkmenistan, Russia,Kazakhstan. Please review all this new countries, some less than 25 years. They have all done better politically, economically and socially than they did in the USSR. Nigeria will do the same. The only thing, we have to fear is fear itself. You know deep down in your heart, that Nigeria is failed state, why pretend otherwise.

I would be VERY SAD if Nigeria divides!

However, our leaders, both northern and southern, are not helping matters.

Dividing Nigeria may become the lesser evil than potential heavy bloodshed in our grossly mismanaged unity.

We are already having this bloodshed in the North. Pity!

I hope we (the electorate) insist on voting for a candidate who will have the wisdom and guts to set up a SOVEREIGN NATIONAL CONFERENCE.

A unity that cannot be negotiated does not exist!!

Afam4eva:
Are you implying that these things are only guaranteed in Nigeria. What exactly do you have against dividing a country? I for one, i'm not proponent for division of even the opposite, i'm just stating the advantages of the former.

. I enjoy reading from you, always making intelligent point, I have been following you for ages and you have never bored me! I decided to register in other to commend you, I learning so much from you, please keep it up and more grace to excel in your endeavours.

Those who think splitting the country would solve the problems of the individual tribes are myopic.
For those biafrans, I have this question to ask:
We've had 14 years of democracy and there has been nothing like regional corporation between the eastern states while we can point to bickering among those states.
What makes you guys believe Biafra will work?

A-ZeD:
Those who think splitting the country would solve the problems of the individual tribes are myopic.
For those biafrans, I have this question to ask:
We've had 14 years of democracy and there has been nothing like regional corporation between the eastern states while we can point to bickering among those states.
What makes you guys believe Biafra will work?

What makes you believe Biafra will not work. Btw, why is Nigeria not working. Those of you that are staunch proponents of Nigeria remaining together bring some of the daftest reasons why you think so. You can do better.

Tolexander: show us how the countries that formed the defunct USSR are better than the USSR!

Better in what sense? If you mean bigger. How can a unit be bigger than what it came out from.

Afam4eva:
What makes you believe Biafra will not work. Btw, why is Nigeria not working. Those of you that are staunch proponents of Nigeria remaining together bring some of the daftest reasons why you think so. You can do better.

I never said it will not work but current realities point to the fact that it will not work. Peoples opinion and attitude will not change over night.
A town in IMO is fighting a Bishop because he is from anambra state. Do you think those peoples attitude will change because of Biafra? Based on currently realities, if Biafra started tomorrow, the same "he is not from my tribe" will continue just on a smaller scale.

A-ZeD:

I never said it will not work but current realities point to the fact that it will not work. Peoples opinion and attitude will not change over night.
A town in IMO is fighting a Bishop because he is from anambra state. Do you think those peoples attitude will change because of Biafra? Based on currently realities, if Biafra started tomorrow, the same "he is not from my tribe" will continue just on a smaller scale.

Like i said, you guys give the daftest reason why a break up will not work. What has atown in Imo fighting an Anambra Bishop got to do with development. maybe you'll also tell little children not to fight with their mates so that the country can move forward. Pls if you have a concrete reason why a new nation will not work then say it instead of resorting to these cheap and ridiculous reasons.