I have some honest questions for Lagosshia, I really do not know if you've been asked before.

1. Do you see all Muslims and have this urge to classify them according to sects. I.e you meet someone and don't see him as a Muslim but as a shia, Sunni, salafist, wahabi e.t.c
2. Do you have to bring the Sunni/shia talk in every discussion even when unnecessary. (In my opinion, I think you do this)

P.s I know you are passionate shia.

Just trying to understand better.

Sissie: I have some honest questions for Lagosshia, I really do not know if you've been asked before.

I cannot recall.

1. Do you see all Muslims and have this urge to classify them according to sects. I.e you meet someone and don't see him as a Muslim but as a shia, Sunni, salafist, wahabi e.t.c

I can say this is a very difficult question,that I can conveniently and honestly answer with a yes and a no.

firstly I do sincerely believe we are all Muslims regardless of the interpretations we choose to follow mostly in the furoo ud deen (the branches of Islam) as opposed to usool ud deen (fundamentals of religion),with the exception of the doctrine of imamate which is an usool ud deen for the Shia and the major difference between the two sides.

now as to whether I see all muslims as sunni or shia,that question can also be asked to a muslim preacher preaching to Christians as to whether he sees human beings based on their religion.in other words this is a platform to air religious views,and it is not meant to amuse people and put smiles on their faces.you must know that I have nothing against my sunni brothers.i am here to preach and to express my views.naturally we are meant to have differences.and normally topics come up which I create or contribute on,and therefore I express my views based on my beliefs,and not usually what would please everyone.

one thing that I am really passionate about are the Wahhabis/salafists among sunnis.if you listen to the news,every act of terror that have distorted the image of islam and muslims is carried out by them.in fact they have gone as far as making muslims to have no right to defend themselves in Palestine for instance,because any act of a muslim picking up a weapon to fight (even for a legitimate cause) is quickly and unsuspectingly mistaken by non-muslims just as another act of terror.this is playing well for the Israeli occupation of muslim land.another point is the sectarian killings of (shia) muslims in Pakistan,iraq and elsewhere.who is doing it? who is making islam look like a house killing itself? a more pathetic issue is takfirism-declaring muslims as "kuffar".if it is just an empty declaration,it means nothing to anyone.it is hot air.but takfirism is when you declare another muslim a "kaffir" or a "mushrik" and then you use that to justify his killing.isnt the blood of a muslim more sacred than the holy Ka'ba according to the words of the Prophet (sa)?

when the ummah is facing such problems,and the beliefs I abide by and I am convinced of are making my fellow Shia (innocent civilians) around the world in marketplaces,mosques and holy places to be cold-bloodedly murdered,it becomes the duty of every muslim to speak out against takfirism that the Wahhabis/salafists represent.this is no longer an issue of preaching that the Shia interpretations are more correct or truthful than the sunnis,or simply calling sunnis to the path of the Thaqalain (Quran and Ahlul-Bayt).it is more than that.it is a duty on every muslim to get rid of the menace wahhabism/salafism represent through critically examining our beliefs,ourselves and our humanity.yesterday it was in Syria against the alawites and the shia.today it is in Egypt against sunnis themselves,whom the salafists/Wahhabis also claim to be.and there is already a genocide against Shia Muslims in Pakistan.when would spilling of blood and of civilian blood stop? what good would it bring to attack non-combatants or churches and killing innocent Christians that have committed no crime or act of aggression against muslims? does islam promote attacking places of worship,or does islam prohibit attacking a place of worship? where does islam stand? when expressing such issues that border on my humanity,it touches me so much that I have to express my religious convictions as I believe the holy Prophet (sa) taught,that the salvation of this ummah lies in returning back to the Quran and the Ahlul-Bayt (as) who are manifestations of the correct Muhammadan sunnah,in contrast to the contradictory "sunnahs" that you see left and right from different figures (historical or not).

2. Do you have to bring the Sunni/shia talk in every discussion even when unnecessary. (In my opinion, I think you do this)

well,i think the above explanation should be enough.however I am here to preach and do da'wah.i intend no harm to anyone even if I might have hurt anyone's feelings.i have so many sunni relations.it doesn't mean I hate anyone for being sunni,even if truth be told.the fatwa of Ayatollah Sistani says: "the shia should not only regard sunnis as their 'brothers',but as their own selves".

P.s I know you are passionate shia.

Just trying to understand better.

its ok.

Seen, but no it's not the same thing as asking a Muslim preacher, preaching to a Christian if he sees humans based on their religion.
Seeing the ummah as one is really important, which is one of the reasons we have so much problems today.

Sissie: Seen, but no it's not the same thing as asking a Muslim preacher, preaching to a Christian if he sees humans based on their religion.
Seeing the ummah as one is really important, which is one of the reasons we have so much problems today.

I am looking at it indiscriminately against what "divides" people.so that argument you are putting up can also be used in different contexts.after all all humanity is from Adam and Eve,be us muslims Christians, atheists or Buddhists.however,i do believe the truth must be preached peacefully,and the bloodshed must stop.also unity should be embraced by all.it is not a one sided thing whereby on party walk towards it while the other part works or pulls against it.

.

@ Lagosshia.. Salamu Alaykum Warahmatullah. I quite appreciate ur line of reasoning even though I don't totally agree wit ur analysis of shiites' persecution n all dat. I think its one sided, coz d story's same in Iran n all shiite dominated countries. Sunnis are also persecuted 4 d crime of being a Sunni muslim.
What actually beats me is dis.. Can't we all just be 'MUSLIMS'? Without any sectoral discolorations? Dos being members of a particular sect guarantee an automatic ticket to jannah or attaining Allah's pleasure, which is d ultimate goal of every muslim?
As for me, I aint Shiite and I'm nt sunni.. I'm a MUSLIM.

Yasmeena: @ Lagosshia.. Salamu Alaykum Warahmatullah. I quite appreciate ur line of reasoning even though I don't totally agree wit ur analysis of shiites' persecution n all dat. I think its one sided, coz d story's same in Iran n all shiite dominated countries. Sunnis are also persecuted 4 d crime of being a Sunni muslim.
What actually beats me is dis.. Can't we all just be 'MUSLIMS'? Without any sectoral discolorations? Dos being members of a particular sect guarantee an automatic ticket to jannah or attaining Allah's pleasure, which is d ultimate goal of every muslim?
As for me, I aint Shiite and I'm nt sunni.. I'm a MUSLIM.

Expect a long epistle trying to justify sectarianism as a response to this.

Well, as for Shia, i don't have anything much to say about them, rather i'l say they are among the sects prevalent in Islam today.
My actual contribution is to the question asked by sister yasmeena above that: Can't we all be Muslims?
Let me state here that this's the question on the lips of many muslims today.
But, going down the memory lane, history of Islam, and how it has evolved, you will know that it never started now(though that of this age is so much).
You'l also know that many of them had reasons(though not enough) for evolving.
Let's start from the time Of Abubakar(R.A) When Musailimatul Kadhaab and his people were claiming that he's the next prophet after Muhammad (S.A.W). That was some few years after prophet's death, As we all know, this's a false claim as Prophet Muhammad is the last of all prophets, but this sect, rather were spreading falsehood, so the muslims under the caliphate of Abubakar had to resist it.
What led to the formation of Shia, is the belief of some people that Ali is supposed to be the khaleefa after the death of prophet muhammad. They had this grudge for a long period of time and up till date.
Infact these and many more examples are there for all to see, but the fact is that SECTARIANISM is not new to ISLAM,
Prophet Muhammad S.A.W told us all about it, but he didn't fail to point to us that as the Ummah evolves, many ideologies will come, people are coming from different religions, infact they will try to blend everything into ISLAM.
Prophet gave muslims the way out, he described this SECTARIANISM as a FITNAH, And then ultimately advised all to follow his SUNNAH(PATH), And the SUNNAH(PATH) of his right guided caliphs.
This's the prophetic advice for all muslims in the face of all these trials and tribulations, but some MUSLIMS fail to follow THIS.

Yasmeena: @ Lagosshia.. Salamu Alaykum Warahmatullah. I quite appreciate ur line of reasoning even though I don't totally agree wit ur analysis of shiites' persecution n all dat. I think its one sided, coz d story's same in Iran n all shiite dominated countries. Sunnis are also persecuted 4 d crime of being a Sunni muslim.
What actually beats me is dis.. Can't we all just be 'MUSLIMS'? Without any sectoral discolorations? Dos being members of a particular sect guarantee an automatic ticket to jannah or attaining Allah's pleasure, which is d ultimate goal of every muslim?
As for me, I aint Shiite and I'm nt sunni.. I'm a MUSLIM.

PLEASE REVIEW THIS ANSWER THAT WAS GIVEN TO YOUR NOTION:

i want to correct a misconception many muslims especially we African muslims have.we always want to see ourselves as only being muslims.i want to correct this notion by saying that both the sunnis and the shias,each side believe they are only muslims and that they are the right islam.non of the 2 sides would want to be seen as deviating from islam or that they are a deviant sect.and this is particular so and inescapable for the fact no matter how ignorant the muslim is,he must be explicitly or implicitly following either of the two branches of islam.you are either shia or sunni.there is no escape from it no matter how much you think you are being neutral.take for example the simple practive of wudu.you either do your ablution as the shia do it or as sunnis do.

another point i want to emphasize and one of the reasons i am shia,is the fact that shia islam teaches me a basic reality:you cannot be indifferent to the truth.if you dont follow the truth then you are following falsehood.likewise within the context of the shia/sunni split,there is the obligation upon each and everyone muslim to be seen as a shia.shia means "partisan".we are the shia of Ali or the shia of the Household of Muhammad.within the context of the shia/sunni divide,it is an obligation on us as muslims that we obey Allah and His Messenger.the Quran says: "SAY OH MUHAMMAD:I ASK YOU (MUSLIMS) OF NO REWARD EXCEPT THE LOVE OF MY NEAR ONES".If the near one of the Prophet we are ordered to love (and this love means loyalty),we dont defend them nor stand against their enemies then we are committing a sin against the words of Allah and a grave injustice.you are either with justice or against justice.you cannot be with both.you are either with the Prophet's daughter,Fatima,or you are with Umar,the man who wanted to burn her house.you either follow the Household and their lead or you follow those who thought of themselves as better than the Household of Muhammad.so there is no escape to it.you must stand with justice.as it is said:injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere !!!

PLEASE ALSO REVIEW THIS THREAD:

https://www.nairaland.com/1001212/why-it-bidah-forbidden-sinful

ShehuAba: Well, as for Shia, i don't have anything much to say about them, rather i'l say they are among the sects prevalent in Islam today.
My actual contribution is to the question asked by sister yasmeena above that: Can't we all be Muslims?
Let me state here that this's the question on the lips of many muslims today.
But, going down the memory lane, history of Islam, and how it has evolved, you will know that it never started now(though that of this age is so much).
You'l also know that many of them had reasons(though not enough) for evolving.
Let's start from the time Of Abubakar(R.A) When Musailimatul Kadhaab and his people were claiming that he's the next prophet after Muhammad (S.A.W). That was some few years after prophet's death, As we all know, this's a false claim as Prophet Muhammad is the last of all prophets, but this sect, rather were spreading falsehood, so the muslims under the caliphate of Abubakar had to resist it.
What led to the formation of Shia, is the belief of [size=18pt]some people [/size] that Ali is supposed to be the khaleefa after the death of prophet muhammad. They had this grudge for a long period of time and up till date.

it is so unfortunate when a Muslim applies double standard on religious matters.when it comes to the Shia opposing the enemies and oppressors of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and their rights,those oppressors are given the all encompassing title of "sahaba" to cover up for their actions.but when it comes to those who stood by Imam Ali (as) and refused to pay allegiance to Abu Bakr,those "sahaba" become "some people".who were the first "some people" who held that notion Mr. Man?

I can easily also point finger at you that you have insulted the sahaba of the holy Prophet (sa) because you have just stated that those "some people" who were in fact Sahaba "held grudge for a long period of time".

I want you to tell us who first were those "some people" who stood by Imam Ali (as) and what the Messenger of Allah (sa) declared at Ghadir Khum.

for a quick hint,let me give you the case of Malik Ibn Nuwayrah (RA),a companion of the Prophet (sa),who Khalid Ibn al-Walid-abu bakr's junta leader-killed mercilessly and raped his wife because that noble companion refused the rule of abu bakr and to honor it with the payment of zakat.and today lies are concocted to make Malik Ibn Nuwayrah (ra),a companion who embraced Islam in the hands of the Prophet (sa), "an apostate".how ridiculous of honoring the companions?!!! you only honor "your companions" you choose to honor,and not all the companions.you have made it a stereotype to accuse the Shia of "insulting the companions" because the Shia stand against a few that grabbed power.at the same time,Sunnis oppose those companions at the receiving end who opposed "your companions",and little is heard about the former.why? why? why? don't you fear Allah (swt)? or you lack the ability to look at the most important issue the ummah have faced collectively?

Infact these and many more examples are there for all to see, but the fact is that SECTARIANISM is not new to ISLAM,
Prophet Muhammad S.A.W told us all about it, but he didn't fail to point to us that as the Ummah evolves, many ideologies will come, people are coming from different religions, infact they will try to blend everything into ISLAM.
Prophet gave muslims the way out, he described this SECTARIANISM as a FITNAH, And then ultimately advised all to follow his SUNNAH(PATH), And the SUNNAH(PATH) of his right guided caliphs.
This's the prophetic advice for all muslims in the face of all these trials and tribulations, but some MUSLIMS fail to follow THIS.

sectarianism emerged because Muslims failed to follow the Thaqalain left behind by the Prophet (sa).you are the guilty party when it comes to sectarianism.look at the ones blowing up (Shia) Muslims in Iraq.who are they? you are the guilty party my dear friend.

@Lagos shia. Salamu alaykum Ya Akhee! I read ur reply, n since I'm not one 4 long epistles and d likes.. I'll just leave u wit dis simple words of mine. If really every muslim focuses on following d provisions of d Quran and d sunnah of our beloved Nabiyy(PBUH).. And we worry as we should about our lot in d hereafter, u'll not have tym 2 consider Sects.. Dat 1st night in d grave, d angels in charge won't ask ' What Sect do u belong'? Rather, its 'What religion did u practice'?
Its when u 4get about dis all important event dat u'll have tym 2 point fingers.. But being engrossed in true worship of Allah(SWT) and ur inefficiencies in dat regard, making ammends here and there, makes u truly 'MUSLIM'
May Allah forgive us all, and unite d ummah of our beloved Nabiyy(PBUH)

maclatunji:

Expect a long epistle trying to justify sectarianism as a response to this.

I thought as much.. Lol

Yasmeena: @Lagos shia. Salamu alaykum Ya Akhee! I read ur reply, n since I'm not one 4 long epistles and d likes.. I'll just leave u wit dis simple words of mine. If really every muslim focuses on following d provisions of d Quran and d sunnah of our beloved Nabiyy(PBUH).. And we worry as we should about our lot in d hereafter, u'll not have tym 2 consider Sects.. Dat 1st night in d grave, d angels in charge won't ask ' What Sect do u belong'? Rather, its 'What religion did u practice'?
Its when u 4get about dis all important event dat u'll have tym 2 point fingers.. But being engrossed in true worship of Allah(SWT) and ur inefficiencies in dat regard, making ammends here and there, makes u truly 'MUSLIM'
May Allah forgive us all, and unite d ummah of our beloved Nabiyy(PBUH)

first of all I expected an expression of gratitude as a show of courtesy for replying to your question instead of following in the footsteps of arrogance. I am not obliged to spend my time in answering.i am giving you my own time for your benefit,as you asked on something you didn't know about.there is a hadith that says "he who does not appreciate the creatures does not appreciate the Creator".a sign of gratitude to man is therefore gratitude to God.my "epistles" are meant for you to understand.if you are not interested to understand fully and get every detail to that end,then I am not interested in your conclusion.i did not ask you.you brought up a question to me.so you either read or you politely take your leave.it is not by force to read,but don't be rude.

as for your point in following the "Quran and the Sunnah".you need to ask yourself who put that as a criteria that you must follow the Quran and the Sunnah.and what is Sunnah? of course you would say in the Quran it is stated that we should "obey Allah and the Messenger",and also "he who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah" ,and "in the Messenger there is an excellent example". the Messenger left behind the Quran in written form and in the memory of his followers. But the Sunnah of the Prophet (sa) was neither written nor memorized.it was those around the Prophet (sa) that narrated what they saw or claimed to have seen.for instance Abu Hurayrah who barely saw the Prophet (sa) for 2 years narrated so much hadiths that had the Prophet (sa) been talking 24/7 throughout his lifetime non-stop he wont have been able to say all the things Abu Hurayrah claimed to have heard the Prophet (sa) "say".the Sunnah therefore is derived from what is found in the hadiths that were narrated by "the companions".there were companions who had conflict among themselves,who fabricated hadiths and whose hadiths today are not all acceptable,and to that end you find Sunnis having a grading system to determine which hadith to accept and which to reject.

so now the point comes to the question: from who do we take the sunnah.whom among the sahaba? to answer this question,the Prophet (sa) said in Hadith al-Thaqalain: "hold on to the Two Weighty Things (al-Thaqalain)-which are the Quran and my Ahlul-Bayt,my progeny (itrah)-after which you will never go astray.the two will never part until they meet me at the pond (i.e. in paradise) ".we as followers of Ahlul-Bayt (as) do take the Sunnah of the Prophet (sa) from the Ahlul-Bayt (as),and the Noble Companions who stood by the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and did not oppose or oppress them.any other sunnah is your own sunnah,not that of the Prophet (sa).

talking about answering the Angels in the grave,do you know the Angels will ask you "who was your Imam"? knowing your Imam is the number Sunnah that so called "Sunnis" (followers of sunnah) have forgotten.who is your Imam? the Prophet (sa) has said in hadiths unanimously accepted by Sunnis and Shia that: "he who does not know the Imam of his time has died the death of jahiliyyah". "One day We shall call every group of people by their respective Imams" (Quran 17:71). in other words if you don't know the Imam of your time,with all your prayers and fasting,you have died the death of jahiliyyah (an ignorant disbeliever).this is a Sunnah.following the 12 Imams (as) is a Sunnah.why don't you follow that? the problem is you have abandoned the Sunnah of the Prophet (sa) and followed the "sunnahs" of others.the Prophet (sa) said : "his successors are 12".Sunnah is all that the Prophet (sa) said or did.who are these 12 successors? can you name them? of course these 12 successors (leaders/imams) are the ones you would be asked about in the grave.you can never identify them if you are not Shia.you can try and fail woefully. do we pray taraweeh or not.did the Prophet (sa) prohibit this practice or not?is it a bid'ah or not? was it Umar that promoted it or not? whose sunnah do you follow,the Prophet's (sa) or Umar's ? I can go on and on.following the Quran and Sunnah is good,but from whom do we take the SUNNAH and not just "sunnah" (with a small "s" ).we are not calling unto following "sects".we are only calling unto following the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet (sa) which the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and the righteous Companions who did not oppose or oppress the Ahlul-Bayt (as) exemplified.we are calling unto true Islam.the choice is yours and "there is no compulsion in religion"."to you your way and to me mine".

@Lagosshia. Salamu alaykum warahmatullah. I'm sorry about having not appreciated your 'Time' It was'nt intended 2 be a rude response neither is it arrogance, rather its called 'Forgetfulness' which I guess u undastand. Being quick 2 judge it as rude n being arrogant is not a fair approach. I guess u're just use 2 being on d defensive always. Well, Thank you for ur time. For d records, there's no evidence dat d questioning in d grave will include 'Who ur Imam was'.. D questions are: Who's ur Lord?, What's ur religion? Who's ur Prophet? What book did u follow for guidelines? and What's ur Qiblah? However, Like u said, unto u ur belief n unto me mine. Wa Allahu Aallam!

Yasmeena: @Lagosshia. Salamu alaykum warahmatullah. I'm sorry about having not appreciated your 'Time' It was'nt intended 2 be a rude response neither is it arrogance, rather its called 'Forgetfulness' which I guess u undastand. Being quick 2 judge it as rude n being arrogant is not a fair approach. I guess u're just use 2 being on d defensive always. Well, Thank you for ur time. For d records, there's no evidence dat d questioning in d grave will include 'Who ur Imam was'.. D questions are: Who's ur Lord?, What's ur religion? Who's ur Prophet? What book did u follow for guidelines? and What's ur Qiblah? However, Like u said, unto u ur belief n unto me mine. Wa Allahu Aallam!

wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatulahi wa barakatuh.

you don't need to go as far as the grave. the hadith that says: "he who does not know the Imam of his Time has died the death of jahiliyyah" is talking first about in this world. know your Imam first in this world and avoid dying the death of jahiliyyah.

it is also stated in the Holy Quran:

"One day We shall call every group of people by their respective Imams" (Quran 17:71).

it is established in Shia ahadith that "who is your Imam" is among the questions that would be asked by Munkar and Nakir (as) in the grave.i'd research on the subject if there is any mention about the questioning of the grave in Sunni ahadith that states that the angels would also ask about "who is your Imam". however, knowing your Imam in this world and of your time, and also that you would be called with your Imam after resurrection are established in (Sunni and Shia) ahadith and Quran respectively.

i thought Muhammad [SA] is the imam of all the muslims under his prophetic office? the generation of Ibrahim [AS] had Ibrahim as their iman as well. if people are falling under imams of their time, who will remain behind Muhammad [SA] since the imams are now in charge?

the simple thing called Islam is made complicated by schisms among the 'ummah', instead of all of us following Muhammad [SA] our God ordained leader.

RoyPCain: i thought Muhammad [SA] is the imam of all the muslims under his prophetic office? the generation of Ibrahim [AS] had Ibrahim as their iman as well. if people are falling under imams of their time, who will remain behind Muhammad [SA] since the imams are now in charge?

the simple thing called Islam is made complicated by schisms among the 'ummah', instead of all of us following Muhammad [SA] our God ordained leader.

so people (Muslims) who looked up to the Prophet (sa) (during his time on earth) never existed? you mean the Prophet (sa) did not have contemporaries who were his followers? yes the Prophet (sa) is our Imam till Judgment Day (and after). but since the Prophet (sa) is physically not present to lead the ummah spiritually and hold the political leadership of Muslims,who is the Imam that Muslims should look up to? who is the successor of the Prophet (sa) that we should all as Muslims see as our Imam of the Time? the Hadith of the Imam of the Time is in both Sunni and Shia books. you should ask your scholars to answer your question, as it hold no water. Know your Imam of the Time. know who are the 12 that the Prophet (sa) said would be his successors. who are those 12?

"Who Is The Sunni 'Imam Of The Time'?" :
https://www.nairaland.com/981940/vedaxcool-please-answer-sunni-imam

@LagosShia who is your imam?

Sissie: @LagosShia who is your imam?

the Prophet (sa) said his successors would be 12,and that the Thaqalain (Two Weighty Things) would never part from each other till they return to the pond of Kauthar.my Imam is the 12th holy Imam (as) of the Ahlul-Bayt (as).Imam Muhammad Ibn al-Hassan al-Askari, aka Imam Mahdi aka Imam Sahibul-Asri Waz-Zaman (ajtfs).

if the beloved [SA] of Allah and all muslims will have just the 'sahabah' [RA], the hadith that says his nation will be the largest will be incorrect because the nation of Musa [AS] and each of the nations of the 12 imams have to be larger than the size of the sahabah [RA]. which of the 12 imams is here physically, now? this is the quagmire of making simple things complicated.

RoyPCain: if the beloved [SA] of Allah and all muslims will have just the 'sahabah' [RA], the hadith that says his nation will be the largest will be incorrect because the nation of Musa [AS] and each of the nations of the 12 imams have to be larger than the size of the sahabah [RA]. which of the 12 imams is here physically, now? this is the quagmire of making simple things complicated.

you are confusing yourself.the 12 Imams (as) themselves are part of the ummah of Muhammad (sa).being part of the ummah of Muhammad (sa) and knowing your Imam of the Time do not contradict.having an Imam of the Time doesn't reduce the size of Prophet Muhammad's (sa) ummah,even more so because those 12 holy Imams (as) from the Ahlul-Bayt (as) of the Prophet (sa) himself are successors of the Prophet (sa) and not prophets or messengers themselves who brought a new shariah.they follow and uphold the shariah of Prophet Muhammad (sa).thus the hadith that the ummah of the Prophet (sa) would be the largest remain intact.if you feel the two contradict then you are doubting the words of the Prophet (sa),as the hadith of the Imam of the Time is also authentic in both Shia and Sunni sources.there is no quagmire and nothing complicated.you just need to be patient in finding out about what is new to you.it is the humility and spirit to learn new things and gain more knowledge.

Masha Allah! An interesting read, keep it coming brothers and sisters.

Doesn't the imam has to be physically present? Isn't that what THE time connote? Am sort of confused.

LagosShia:
Weighty Things) would never part from each other till they return to the pond of Kauthar.my Imam is the 12th holy Imam (as) of the Ahlul-Bayt (as).Imam Muhammad Ibn al-Hassan al-Askari, aka Imam Mahdi aka Imam Sahibul-Asri Waz-Zaman (ajtfs).

lagosShia:
but since the Prophet (sa) is physically not present to lead the ummah spiritually and hold the political leadership of Muslims,who is the Imam that Muslims should look up to? who is the successor of the Prophet (sa) that we should all as Muslims see as our Imam of the Time?

"Who Is The Sunni 'Imam Of The Time'?" :
https://www.nairaland.com/981940/vedaxcool-please-answer-sunni-imam

Sissie: Doesn't the imam has to be physically present? Isn't that what THE time connote? Am sort of confused.

you are right,the Imam has to be physically present.in fact there is another hadith which states that the earth would never be devoid of God's representative (i.e. an Imam), otherwise the people of the earth would perish.the Prophet (sa) also said that his Ahlul-Bayt (as) are an amnesty for the people of the earth,just as the presence of the Prophet (sa) was an amnesty for the people of Quraish.Allah (swt) did not destroy Quraish:

"It is not for Allah to punish them while you are among them."
(Holy Quran 8:33)

what is confusing you?

LagosShia:

you are right,the Imam has to be physically present.in fact there is another hadith which states that the earth would never be devoid of God's representative (i.e. an Imam), otherwise the people of the earth would perish.the Prophet (sa) also said that his Ahlul-Bayt (as) are an amnesty for the people of the earth,just as the presence of the Prophet (sa) was an amnesty for the people of Quraish.Allah (swt) did not destroy Quraish:

"It is not for Allah to punish them while you are among them."
(Holy Quran 8:33)

what is confusing you?

What's confusing me, is I asked who your imam is and you said the 12th imam, and I assume the iman has to be physically present but the 12th imam isn't.

Sissie:

What's confusing me, is I asked who your imam is and you said the 12th imam, and I assume the iman has to be physically present but the 12th imam isn't.

the Imam (ajtfs) is physically present on earth but incognito, as a way to ensure the success of his mission and protect his safety just as Allah (swt) took up Prophet Isa (as) and saved other prophets.(note that all the previous 11 Imams were martyred).however the Imam (ajtfs) is on earth,and we know him by the title of "Sahibul-Asri Waz-Zaman" (the Imam of the Time and Age) and we believe in him.it is through the guidance of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and the 12 Imams (as) we follow Islam and our enlightened scholars guide us on religious matters,until the appointed time Allah (swt) has ordained for the re-appearance of Imam Mahdi (ajtfs) and the descent of Prophet Isa (as) to spread justice,freedom and peace on earth,and uproot tyranny,injustice and oppression.through this the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (as) in Karbala at the hands of the tyrant-Yazeed-and every tyrant and oppressor would witness defeat,as the will of the divine would triumph.it is through this promise also that Allah (swt) will see the promise he made in the Holy Quran that the earth shall be inherited by His righteous servants.

LagosShia:

the Imam (ajtfs) is physically present on earth but incognito, as a way to ensure the success of his mission and protect his safety just as Allah (swt) took up Prophet Isa (as) and saved other prophets.(note that all the previous 11 Imams were martyred).however the Imam (ajtfs) is on earth,and we know him by the title of "Sahibul-Asri Waz-Zaman" (the Imam of the Time and Age) and we believe in him.it is through the guidance of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and the 12 Imams (as) we follow Islam and our enlightened scholars guide us on religious matters,until the appointed time Allah (swt) has ordained for the re-appearance of Imam Mahdi (ajtfs) and the descent of Prophet Isa (as) to spread justice,freedom and peace on earth,and uproot tyranny,injustice and oppression.through this the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (as) in Karbala at the hands of the tyrant-Yazeed-and every tyrant and oppressor would witness defeat,as the will of the divine would triumph.it is through this promise also that Allah (swt) will see the promise he made in the Holy Quran that the earth shall be inherited by His righteous servants.

Ok I get it now. Thanks

Sissie:

Ok I get it now. Thanks

you are welcome.

and the belief that 'the imams' are infallible and have knowledge of the future' make them higher than messengers, indeed become the object of worship, though people will deny this while they pray to them, call for their help, while shunning the mention of the real messenger that the religion was completed upon. of course through all of this, God is not mentioned in the emotional rush.

42 verse 23 below that is used to pinpoint the family [ra] of the prophet [SA] seem to go against the process of faith and when read in context, say from 21 to 27, one sees that 23 is in line with humans are of the same family and muslims are members of the same religious family. and there is no way it could have been read that it is addressing all of us to focus on the blood members of the prophet [SA] as faith is borne by individual by dedication directly to God.

It is that of which Allah gives good tidings to His servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say, [O Muhammad], "I do not ask you for this message any payment [but] only good will through kinship." And whoever commits a good deed - We will increase for him good therein. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Appreciative.

it is ironic that the imam mahdi that is supposed to be the present day imam has not provided any benefit of leadership to those people who believe he is already here because he has been hiding in the cave that he ran into for many centuries now with a Quran. i hope somebody will wake up and realize that this event is very similar to what is in surah kahf, except no one had visited him or has seen him.


in islam, the larger community will be correct on a matter we have dissenting view from minority segments. Allah gave the messenger [SA] the honor and i will not elevate anyone to his level and worse is to make others God-like by saying they are infallible while deriding those who were people of the first generation [ra].


Alhamdulillah i am just a simple muslim without no hyphenation. and i do not belong to any group except that i am in this generation of people living, now.

RoyPCain: and the belief that 'the imams' are infallible and have knowledge of the future' make them higher than messengers, indeed become the object of worship, though people will deny this while they pray to them, call for their help, while shunning the mention of the real messenger that the religion was completed upon. of course through all of this, God is not mentioned in the emotional rush.

the above is your "emotional rush" devoid of truth and rationality,and redherrings.the question of infallibility,knowledge of the unseen and the status of prophets/messengers/holy imams are irrelevant to this present discussion.all the prophets/messengers/holy imams are "infallible" (or they are guided by God against error),they have the knowledge of the unseen (to the extents that God granted them) and they are all honored by God and can offer intercession (tawassul) and mediation (shafa'ah).these subjects you are piling up here have nothing to do with the concept of the necessity of a holy Imam/Leader or a successor/caliph of the Prophet (sa) to lead the ummah at all times.

42 verse 23 below that is used to pinpoint the family [ra] of the prophet [SA] seem to go against the process of faith and when read in context, say from 21 to 27, one sees that 23 is in line with humans are of the same family and muslims are members of the same religious family. and there is no way it could have been read that it is addressing all of us to focus on the blood members of the prophet [SA] as faith is borne by individual by dedication directly to God.

that is your own cult tafsir.the verse talks about the Prophet's (sa) "near relatives".are you related to him?

it is ironic that the imam mahdi that is supposed to be the present day imam has not provided any benefit of leadership to those people who believe he is already here because he has been hiding in the cave that he ran into for many centuries now with a Quran. i hope somebody will wake up and realize that this event is very similar to what is in surah kahf, except no one had visited him or has seen him.

it is very good you raised this point up.the Prophet (sa) said when asked: "What would be the condition of the people after the Ahlul-Bayt," and he replied: "Their condition will be like that of an ass whose spine is fractured."

the Prophet (sa) said anyone who dies without knowing the Imam of his Time has died the death of jahiliyyah. when you are asking the Shia on the subject of the whereabouts of the 12th holy Imam (as),while the Shia believes in the presence of the 12th Imam and is therefore exempt from the death of jahiliyyah,you as a Sunni have to answer where is your own Imam of the Time? you do not only lack one,but you have been forced to defeat,both spiritual/religious and political defeat. in fact the abolition and defeat of the caliphate with the demise of the ottoman empire is evidence that the sunni sect is on the wrong path.Allah (swt) said "His light would never be extinguished",while your sunni caliphate which is meant to be the light to guide you and prevent you from dying the death of jahiliyyah was extinguished.your fellows are still singing slogans of bringing back the caliphate.your caliphate was abolished and you as an ummah do not have a leadership structure.your leadership was erased,which means your guidance was erased as well going by the hadith of the Imam of the Time;while Allah (swt) protected the Imamate of the 12 holy Imams of the Prophet's (sa) Ahlul-Bayt (as) by preserving the 12th Imam (aj),after the previous 11 were all martyred by the tyrants .if you think the sunni sect is on the right path,then you are obviously putting the veracity of the Prophet (sa) at stake because the Prophet (sa) made the condition of having and knowing the leader of the ummah as sign of guidance and truth and prerequisite to die on the "Straight Path".it is your speculation to say that Imam Mahdi (aj) have not provided any benefit of leadership.his very existence and belief in him is enough benefit to ensure we do not die the death of jahiliyyah,as per the condition the Prophet (sa) made for those who die and do not know the Imam of the Time.

also,you don't need to speculate and propagate things you are not sure about.Imam Mahdi (aj) is not in any cave and not with "a Quran".hearsay will take you no where."most of that which is doubt can be a sin".

in islam, the larger community will be correct on a matter we have dissenting view from minority segments. Allah gave the messenger [SA] the honor and i will not elevate anyone to his level and worse is to make others God-like by saying they are infallible while deriding those who were people of the first generation [ra].

your "larger community" itself is divided or fragmented into many parts: salafists,wahhabis,ahmadiyyah,hanafis,shafi'is,hanbalis,malikis,etc.

you need to understand the concept of infallibility does not mean "perfection as per the status of God",but protection and guidance from God to His chosen ones to avoid error and be the best examples for mankind.otherwise the divine messages would have no use or meaning.the prophets could not have been the first to disobey God on issues they wanted people to obey God on.that is the basis for the concept of "isma".and then you brought in again another topic: the sahaba.this is getting boring,and you are contradicting yourself.not all the sahaba were righteous and not all were sinful or bad.it is so shocking that you oppose the idea prophets can be sinless,but you doubt the position that there were sahaba who were in fact sinful and evil.you are the one making some sahaba "god-like" if you consider being sinless as "Divine".

Alhamdulillah i am just a simple muslim without no hyphenation. and i do not belong to any group except that i am in this generation of people living, now.

you are deceiving yourself.it is a step closer to truth if you admit you are the Sunni you are.at least from there we can make headway.but when you deny what you practically are and claim to be "just a simple muslim" then you do not know yourself or what you are practicing.i can also claim that what I am following is in fact what is about being "just a simple muslim" and nothing else.get real!