Mark Miwerds: I pray you one day learn how to read the Word of God.

Fact #1: Torah was given to Israel. This is clearly seen when one reads the Torah.

Fact #2: Gentile Converts were not to be required to keep the Torah. This is clearly seen in Acts 15.

Fact #3: It is tempting God when you tell Gentile Converts that they must keep Torah. Again, clearly seen in Acts 15.

Fact #4: The commandments contained in ordinances (Torah) were abolished by Jesus Christ. Clearly seen in Ephesians 2.

Fact #5: No Judaizer will ever bewitch me into obeying or submitting to the Torah!

fact1 is a lie.Torah was given to Man. Torah here represent the 5 books of moses including the genesis account.Moses represent a type and shadow of Christ in the New.The new covenant was to Israel first( heb8:10),gentiles were later grafted by mercy(Romans 11:11-24).

Fact 2 is a lie.Gentiles are required to keep the law in their hearts which is no longer written the tablets of stone,and that was why Paul encouraged timothy to study to Show himself approved unto God.Only the TORAH was read those days,the NT wasn't even compiled yet.Paul even said he agrees with the LAW AND THE PROPHETS(acts 24:14). The ethopian eunuch got saved not because there was any so called NT but because philip explained an OT scripture pointing to Christ.

Fact3 is also a repetitive lie.Moses was already preached in synagogues from earliest times and every sabbath( acts 15:21). Paul was no fool either,it was from the same TORAH you are now despising he reasoned with both Jews and greeks in the synagogue pointing to Christ(acts 17:2-4).The bereans even searched this same TORAH to verify and authenticate Paul's message(Acts17:10-12).

In the soon coming kingdom of Christ,the song of Moses and the Lamb will be sung(Rev 15:3) .I pray you won't despise moses on that day if you make it,since it is the same God that gave him the TORAH.

I quite agree with fact4,only the blood sacrifice was done away with since Jesus purchased us with his precious blood(Jn3:16) eph2 you quoted is being misinterpreted and misrepresented by lawless folks like you.Does it mean there are no Laws christians keep? Ofcos there are.The bar is even higher than the old because of grace availability.The ordinance in eph2 refer to the change in levtical priesthood and its ceremonial activities which was abolished by Christ death on the cross,nothing more.Read the book the Hebrews for clarity.

Fact 5 is your opinion.even the term christian was derogatory.read about the early church. The judaizer account was only mentioned in scripture once relating to CIRCUMCISION AS A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION by jewish extremist to the galatian church. Tithing is never a requirement for salvation.Rather it is part of your worship to God as you mature in the Faith.God bless.

Mark Miwerds: I pray you one day learn how to read the Word of God.

Fact #1: Torah was given to Israel. This is clearly seen when one reads the Torah.

Fact #2: Gentile Converts were not to be required to keep the Torah. This is clearly seen in Acts 15.

Fact #3: It is tempting God when you tell Gentile Converts that they must keep Torah. Again, clearly seen in Acts 15.

Fact #4: The commandments contained in ordinances (Torah) were abolished by Jesus Christ. Clearly seen in Ephesians 2.

Fact #5: No Judaizer will ever bewitch me into obeying or submitting to the Torah!

fact1 is a lie.Torah was given to Man. Torah here represent the 5 books of moses including the genesis account.Moses represent a type and shadow of Christ in the New.The new covenant was to Israel first( heb8:10),gentiles were later grafted by mercy(Romans 11:11-24).

Fact 2 is a lie.Gentiles are required to keep the law in their hearts which is no longer written the tablets of stone,and that was why Paul encouraged timothy to study to Show himself approved unto God.Only the TORAH was read those days,the NT wasn't even compiled yet.Paul even said he agrees with the LAW AND THE PROPHETS(acts 24:14). The ethopian eunuch got saved not because there was any so called NT but because philip explained an OT scripture pointing to Christ.

Fact3 is also a repetitive lie.Moses was already preached in synagogues from earliest times and every sabbath( acts 15:21). Paul was no fool either,it was from the same TORAH you are now despising he reasoned with both Jews and greeks in the synagogue pointing to Christ(acts 17:2-4).The bereans even searched this same TORAH to verify and authenticate Paul's message(Acts17:10-12).

In the soon coming kingdom of Christ,the song of Moses and the Lamb will be sung(Rev 15:3) .I pray you won't despise moses on that day if you make it,since it is the same God that gave him the TORAH.

I quite agree with fact4,only the blood sacrifice was done away with since Jesus purchased us with his precious blood(Jn3:16) eph2 you quoted is being misinterpreted and misrepresented by lawless folks like you.Does it mean there are no Laws christians keep? Ofcos there are.The bar is even higher than the old because of grace availability.The ordinance in eph2 refer to the change in levtical priesthood and its ceremonial activities which was abolished by Christ death on the cross,nothing more.Read the book the Hebrews for clarity.

Fact 5 is your opinion.even the term christian was derogatory.read about the early church. The judaizer account was only mentioned in scripture once relating to CIRCUMCISION AS A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION by jewish extremist to the galatian church. Tithing is never a requirement for salvation.Rather it is part of your worship to God as you mature in the Faith.God bless.

Like I said, I pray one day you learn how to read the Bible. Thus far, you have proven you are unable to do so.

You say the Law is still in effect. Well, the Law that you say is still in effect reveals that the tithes God ordained and required were agricultural... Not monetary. You Sir, are the Lawless one.

ajayikayod:

Good morning bro, u don start again o. Which one b eternal principles again. u dey collect tithe too? U and ur other brother.
Actually ds seems to b a trick, bringing TITHES AND OFFERING together in d same post. Dt can b deceptive to most hearers in our churches today who cant seperate GIVING FROM TITHING.

And d verses u quoted actually show more reasons why Christian shouldnt tithe.

No it rather shows we should tithe . Following Abraham faith life.

Mark Miwerds: I pray you one day learn how to read the Word of God.

Fact #1: Torah was given to Israel. This is clearly seen when one reads the Torah.

Fact #2: Gentile Converts were not to be required to keep the Torah. This is clearly seen in Acts 15.

Fact #3: It is tempting God when you tell Gentile Converts that they must keep Torah. Again, clearly seen in Acts 15.

Fact #4: The commandments contained in ordinances (Torah) were abolished by Jesus Christ. Clearly seen in Ephesians 2.

Fact #5: No Judaizer will ever bewitch me into obeying or submitting to the Torah!

Christians are not tithing based on the law . Christians tithe based on the fact that it's a principle in the kingdom of God. Tithes and offerings are eternal principles . Like every other spiritual principle . Regardless of the law. Such as prayer ,worship, fasting. Honoring your parents. Etc.

If tithing were an eternal principle, it would not have ceased for the first five centuries after the cross as it did.

This alleged moral principle was not taught by any Protestant church ontil the late nineteenth century.

I have books in my collection from the early seventeenth century in which protestant churches questioned the monetary tithe that was being forced on the roman catholic masses, saying that the Holy Scriptures declared the tithe was for Levites only.

Sorry Joagbaje, but the monetary tithe is not of God. Both the Word of God and historical records prove that.

Mark Miwerds: , the Law that you say is still in effect reveals that the tithes God ordained and required were agricultural... Not monetary. You Sir, are the Lawless one.

God used such term for isreal because they were farmers by default . Tithe is a general principle. If God had told them to offer thanksgiving or prayers for his prosperity on their increase in the land. Will the point to note be on the land or the prayer unto God? The point to note is the prayer , because it's and eternal principle.

I give give my FIRSTFRUITS to God as a discipline because I believe it as a principle. Abel was the first to give FIRSTFRUITS .

Genesis 4:4
And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

God made it a law for isreal because it's already a principle which Abel discovered

Exodus 13:12
That thou shalt set apart unto the Lord all that openeth the matrix, and every firstling that cometh of a beast which thou hast; the males shall be the Lord 's.

The interesting part was that The reason for his first fruit was not the same reason God gave to isreal for FIRSTFRUITS.. God connected FIRSTFRUITS to Egypt

Exodus 13:14
And it shall be when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What is this? that thou shalt say unto him, By strength of hand the Lord brought us out from Egypt, from the house of bondage:

Question: has Abel been in Egypt? Was he delivered by God hand? No . It was by revelation he knew FIRSTFRUITS belongs to God as a principle .

Same thing with every other bible principle. Principles are eternal. Tithes o, offerings o, prayers o, fasting o. Etc and etc. we give offerings today because it's a principle. Free will offering which you mention is a principle. It will interest you that the free will offering which you recommended for Christians was under the law as well. Why take some and leave the other? Prayer and worship are eternal principles . We call upon God today . But it started in the days of Seth

Genesis 4:26
And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos.. . . then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

I love the way HBSC put it. . . .

Genesis 4:26
A son was born to Seth . . . . At that time people began to call on the name of Yahweh.

So we see firstfruit and offerings started in the days of Abel ,worship, prayer started in the days of enough and Seth and Tithing started in the days of Abraham , all these are principles in God written or unwritten.

Christian tithing and offerings or free will or prayers or intercession is not based on mosaic law. We may only use the law to buttress some points if there be need . But principles preceed the law. Principles are contained in the law. Principles remain after the law. If Paul could quote the law to buttress his point to believers such as honoring you parents or honoring your husbands then we should know that principles in a God are valid either in the law or not.

Why are you bringing up firstfruits? Tithes were not firstfruits.

Mark Miwerds: If tithing were an eternal principle, it would not have ceased for the first five centuries after the cross as it did.

This alleged moral principle was not taught by any Protestant church ontil the late nineteenth century.

There are many things they didn't teach. They didn't even teach about being filled with the holy Spirit Or healing or etc.

Sorry Joagbaje, but the monetary tithe is not of God. Both the Word of God and historical records prove that.

The bible was clear that money value was given as tithes. Money is a general medium of exchange. Money represents a mans labour.

Mark Miwerds: Why are you bringing up firstfruits? Tithes were not firstfruits.

I was illustrating structure of orunciples. Let's not look at the letter but the spirit of the communication. Besides this thread is about tithes and and offerings and FIRSTFRUITS is an offering .

Joagbaje:

There are many things they didn't teach. They didn't even teach about being filled with the holy Spirit Or healing or etc.



The bible was clear that money value was given as tithes. Money is a general medium of exchange. Money represents a mans labour.

And, as usual, you are wrong again. The Church taught Holy Spirit Baptism and Healing. They did not teach the fleshly tongues and falling out as churches do since the alleged Azusa Street Outpouring, but they did teach Holy Spirit Baptism and Healing as it was written in the Word of God.

And Money value was not given as tithes. You have no Scriptural support for such a claim.

Mark Miwerds:
And Money value was not given as tithes. You have no Scriptural support for such a claim.

If you read my post this will be unnecessary. Priest took money for tithes. There was redemption. That apart . Men gave tithes of all things . And all things represents all income.

We may not have all the details and that's where guys try to jump on. But certain scriptures still reveal the structure .

Luke 18:12 WEB
I fast twice a week. I[b] give tithes of all that I get[/b]. '

Luke 18:12 amplified
I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I gain.

Luke 18:12. Living bible
I go without food twice a week, and I give to God a tenth of everything I earn. '

So people gave monetary tithes.

Message translation makes it clearer

Luke 18:12
I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income. '

Joagbaje:

If you read my post this will be unnecessary. Priest took money for tithes. There was redemption. That apart . Men gave tithes of all things . And all things represents all income.

We may not have all the details and that's where guys try to jump on. But certain scriptures still reveal the structure .

Luke 18:12 WEB
I fast twice a week. I[b] give tithes of all that I get[/b]. '

Luke 18:12 amplified
I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I gain.

Luke 18:12. Living bible
I go without food twice a week, and I give to God a tenth of everything I earn. '

So people gave monetary tithes.

Message translation makes it clearer

Luke 18:12
I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income. '

learn how to read the Bible. Luke 18:12 was part of a parable. Never happened. It was no more than an illustration of a prideful man who was rejected of God, and a repentent sinner accepted.

Joagbaje:

Christians are not tithing based on the law . Christians tithe based on the fact that it's a principle in the kingdom of God. Tithes and offerings are eternal principles . Like every other spiritual principle . Regardless of the law. Such as prayer ,worship, fasting. Honoring your parents. Etc.

Your G.O doesn't think so. Maybe you should correct his thinking before you attempt to correct us online. He's a disciple of Moses and Malachi when it comes to tithing. He proved that himself in his devotional.

If you say otherwise, you will be a LIAR. Incase you didn't see the particular devotional, i can repost it for your benefit.

Mark Miwerds: Like I said, I pray one day you learn how to read the Bible. Thus far, you have proven you are unable to do so.
You say the Law is still in effect.

Not me scriptures..scriptures..I think it is high time you stop living lawlessly and wake up to the reality of laws in Christ. "FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY [size=16pt] LAWS[/size] INTO THEIR MINDS, AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Hebrews 8:10

Well, the Law that you say is still in effect reveals that the tithes God ordained and required were agricultural... Not monetary.

We've been through this turf and we've shown you from scriptures,not one,not two,but many scriptural references that the tithe, was not only Agric produce,livestock,money,etc WERE INCLUDED. The definition by you is an error because it is not consistent with other scriptural ref. The DEFINITION is the same all through the Bible. Leviticus 27:30-33 is the APPLICATION (because that is what tells you what the tithes consisted of - that is, tithing in the Law applied to food, which is different in the case of Genesis 14). Numbers 18 shows its STIPULATIONS (because the Law here spells out the the ground as well as the beneficiaries of the Levitical tithes, and why it was stipulated in such a manner).

You Sir, are the Lawless one.

Read the NT scripture i gave you above in Hebrews and tell me who the lawless folk is.Definitely NOT ME.

Joagbaje:

If you read my post this will be unnecessary. Priest took money for tithes. There was redemption. That apart . Men gave tithes of all things . And all things represents all income.

We may not have all the details and that's where guys try to jump on. But certain scriptures still reveal the structure .

Luke 18:12 WEB
I fast twice a week. I[b] give tithes of all that I get[/b]. '

Luke 18:12 amplified
I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I gain.

Luke 18:12. Living bible
I go without food twice a week, and I give to God a tenth of everything I earn. '

So people gave monetary tithes.

Message translation makes it clearer

Luke 18:12
I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income. '

Very clear. But i believe folks like mark will always argue with clear-cut scripture.

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.

11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.

12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”


CONCLUSION:

This is the verse that finally convinced me that paying tithe is the least important before God and the most important before the PHARISEES.

Why the do this 'Men in suits' preach it as if their whole existence depends on it? Of course they are robbers operating in the house of GOD.

Thank you God for bringing me to NL to learn the truth! thank you for true apostle li Candour, Mark, Pastor Kun, Zikky etc

Let the gullible continue in their gullibility and keep paying. As for me, I am enjoying my relationship with God as promised.


Pst Joagbaje, thanks for sharing but pls look at yourself and change your ways because the judgement of GOD will start from the Church. This tithe sin will not be visited on your members because they are gullible and are led by deceit. It will be visited on you and your GO.

Demain_man: The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.

11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.

12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”


CONCLUSION:

This is the verse that finally convinced me that paying tithe is the least important before God and the most important before the PHARISEES.

Why the do this 'Men in suits' preach it as if their whole existence depends on it? Of course they are robbers operating in the house of GOD.

Thank you God for bringing me to NL to learn the truth! thank you for true apostle li Candour, Mark, Pastor Kun, Zikky etc

Let the gullible continue in their gullibility and keep paying. As for me, I am enjoying my relationship with God as promised.


Pst Joagbaje, thanks for sharing but pls look at yourself and change your ways because the judgement of GOD will start from the Church. This tithe sin will not be visited on your members because they are gullible and are led by deceit. It will be visited on you and your GO.

Amen De_main Man! God bless you!!

These modern day Pharisees who brag of their tithing have their reward.

We who have been preaching and teaching the Truth as it is written in God's Holy Word will one day go to our Home in Heaven justified.

Mark Miwerds: I pray you one day learn how to read the Word of God.


Fact #2: Gentile Converts were not to be required to keep the Torah. This is clearly seen in Acts 15.

Fact #5: No Judaizer will ever bewitch me into obeying or submitting to the Torah!

In the mood to clear the Acts 15 debacle.

Unlike you,i understand the dispensationalism theory you read from theological books. I believe they rather do more HARM than good to the body of Christ. They try to paint Paul as the founder of the new covenant and Jesus living under an old obsolete covenant.

Paul wrote that three years before the Acts 15 conference he secretly spent three Sabbaths in Jerusalem with only Peter and James to confirm that they were teaching the same thing (Gal. 1:18-9).

Paul, as well as Peter and James, was satisfied they were teaching the same gospel message. Paul’s interactions with Peter and James at the conference of Acts 15 must be instrumental in fairly framing the interactions of the disciples.

What was the Acts 15 conference, where there were great arguments and disagreements, about? Certainly never tithing.

“And certain men which came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts 15:1)

There is the argument: Gentiles cannot be saved. They must join the nation of Israel by being circumcised, even though God, through Peter and Cornelius, made it clear you did not have to become an Israelite to join the people of God and be granted salvation.

What was the result of what these Jewish Christians from Judea were teaching? Note:These guys are Jewish Christians and not followers of Judaism as you erroneously assume.

“When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.” (Acts 15:2)

So you have one set of Jewish Christians teaching the gentiles that they must be circumcised if they really wanted to follow God and another set of Jewish Christians, Paul and Barnabas as well Peter and others, teaching the gentiles that you did not have to be circumcised if you really wanted to follow God. After much yelling and arguing, they agreed that they should all go back to the mother church at Jerusalem.

Paul and Barnabas knew they were in the right because Paul had already met with Peter and James and that the Judaizing Christians who opposed Paul and Barnabas were in the wrong, and they went to Jerusalem to drive that point home.

Again, after much arguing during the Acts 15 conference, Peter stands up and says,

“Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.” (Acts 15:7-11)

Peter is teaching exactly the same thing that Paul is teaching. Peter is pointing out that things have indeed changed since the veil was rent at the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus the messiah. Brethren like Cornelius, Titus, Timothy, Paul and Barnabas should all be greeted as true Christians because God had revealed that to Peter in Acts 10.

Many have tried to stretch the Acts 15 agreement to mean that gentiles did not need to follow the law of God. That they only needed to follow the four so-called Noahide laws listed in Acts 15:29 (“That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.”).

Under this scenario, gentile Christians need to avoid eating meat offered to idols, but they could steal that meat? Gentiles Christians could no longer drink blood, but they could be drunkards? They needed to avoid meat that had been killed by strangulation, but could lie and murder? They needed to avoid fornication, which comes from the Greek word porneia, which means harlotry, like adultery and incest.

However, since there no restriction against worshiping false gods in the Noahide laws, would the apostles have minded if they visited the temple prostitutes when they visited their parents?

The question you should ask yourself is if the Noahide laws were all that the gentiles were required to observe and still be part of God’s called out people, then why would these other parts of the law affect them?

@Joagbaje, sorry about derailing the thread.

Mark Miwerds: learn how to read the Bible. Luke 18:12 was part of a parable. Never happened. It was no more than an illustration of a prideful man who was rejected of God, and a repentent sinner accepted.

That makes it more Beautiful then. So we just heard from the lips of Jesus how the Jews tithed. " . . .OF ALL THEIR INCOME"
.

Candour:

Your G.O doesn't think so. Maybe you should correct his thinking before you attempt to correct us online. He's a disciple of Moses and Malachi when it comes to tithing. He proved that himself in his devotional.

If you say otherwise, you will be a LIAR. Incase you didn't see the particular devotional, i can repost it for your benefit.

Remember I don't converse with mockers like you, I warned you earlier. I discuss with responsible people . You may kindly exit the thread.

Demain_man: The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.

11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.

12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”


CONCLUSION:

This is the verse that finally convinced me that paying tithe is the least important before God and the most important before the PHARISEES.

That's where you missed it. Dude. Jesus didn't condemn the man for his good deed. But for glorifying his GOOD WORK and judging his brother. Question for you. Did Jesus condemn his good work? Did he condemn his tithing? If he condemn his tithing then he condemned his fasting also. The man fast like every Jew , Jesus fasted too. The man tithed that means Jesus tithed too. These are principles . The law contained principles of the kingdom . The only problem with the law is that it lacked the power to make a man righteous. So if someone wants to be justified by deeds of the law , he has missed the point. Jesus in this passage. Didn't condemn the man for fasting or tithing rather did he not justified the other guy for not fasting and tithing. The other guy was justified because he recognized he was chopping his tithe and he repented and asked for mercy . And he was forgiven at least he repented . That means he has changed from today! So he was justified for his repentance. Why don't you repent like him.

Bidam: In the mood to clear the Acts 15 debacle.
. . . Under this scenario, gentile Christians need to avoid eating meat offered to idols, but they could steal that meat? Gentiles Christians could no longer drink blood, but they could be drunkards? They needed to avoid meat that had been killed by strangulation, but could lie and murder? They needed to avoid fornication, which comes from the Greek word porneia, which means harlotry, like adultery and incest.

Good question

Joagbaje:

Remember I don't converse with mockers like you, I warned you earlier. I discuss with responsible people . You may kindly exit the thread.

I'm not discussing with you dear. I'm only pointing out lies you pour forth on here and I'll keep pointing them out as long as you do not desist from barefaced lies.

Feel free to ignore my posts. Those who seek the truth will get to read it. They are my audience, not you.

^^
You should rather be concerned about you unchristian attitude and language. Tell the holyghost to wash you clean

Truth is communicated in love and humble spirit.

2 Timothy 2:24-25
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Joagbaje: ^^
You should rather be concerned about you unchristian attitude and language. Tell the holyghost to wash you clean

Truth is communicated in love and humble spirit.

2 Timothy 2:24-25
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

And what is Christian about your attitude of standing truth on its head? Why is it so difficult for you to be honest about this issue? What is unchristian about pointing out your consistent inconsistencies?

I'm not striving with you. If I was before, I say here and now that I've stopped. But just like Paul withstood judaizers in his time, just like Martin Luther refused to look away when the church was going down the slope with sale of indulgence, I also have decided not to keep quiet any longer about lies and falsehood in the body of Christ. Its destroying Christian testimonies.

If the souls of men are important to you, you should read the atheist deconversion thread, do an introspection and weep for the damage erroneous doctrines are doing to humans whom Christ died for.

Mark Miwerds:
Fact #2: Gentile Converts were not to be required to keep the Torah. This is clearly seen in Acts 15.

Bidam:
Fact 2 is a lie.Gentiles are required to keep the law in their hearts which is no longer written the tablets of stone,

You truly need to learn how to read the bible. Keeping or writing the law on the heart does not equate to memorizing the written law. It involves a change of nature. The law on your heart is who/what you are, it is not a list of dos and don'ts.

The law, just as stated by Paul is not meant for the righteous, it is meant for criminals, prostitu.tes e.t.c (those with a natural tendency to sin). if your behaviour is being shaped by the law of Moses, then you belong to the group of people stated above. Moses knew his people very well and he knew it would be difficult for them to adhere to the requirement of the law.

Deuteronomy 31:24-27 (NIV)
24 After Moses finished writing in a book the words of this law from beginning to end, 25 he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord: 26 “Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God. There it will remain as a witness against you. 27 For I know how rebellious and stiff-necked you are. If you have been rebellious against the Lord while I am still alive and with you, how much more will you rebel after I die!

Mark Miwerds:
Fact #3: It is tempting God when you tell Gentile Converts that they must keep Torah. Again, clearly seen in Acts 15.

Bidam:
Fact3 is also a repetitive lie.Moses was already preached in synagogues from earliest times and every sabbath( acts 15:21). Paul was no fool either,it was from the same TORAH you are now despising he reasoned with both Jews and greeks in the synagogue pointing to Christ(acts 17:2-4).The bereans even searched this same TORAH to verify and authenticate Paul's message(Acts17:10-12).

How can fact #3 be a 'repetitive lie'? if Moses was preached in synagogues, it was preached to Jews and gentiles who has converted to judaism. Paul reasoned the TORAH with both Jews and greeks (converts to judaism), not Christians. The Torah/law was not designed for gentiles to keep/adhere to. For learning/understanding, yes.

Joagbaje:
Christians are not tithing based on the law . Christians tithe based on the fact that it's a principle in the kingdom of God.

Joagbaje stop deceiving yourself. When the average tither comes to NL posting malachi 3, you are saying they don't tithe based on the law. the tithe payers i know tithe because of malachi, even pastor Chris preach tithing based on the law. i am yet to see or hear a pastor preaching tithing as a principle in the kingdom of God

Joagbaje:
God made it a law for isreal because it's already a principle which Abel discovered

God made firstfruit a law because it's already a principle which Abel discovered? na wa o. nothing we no read/hear for NL

Joagbaje:
The interesting part was that The reason for his first fruit was not the same reason God gave to isreal for FIRSTFRUITS..

confusion...i thought you said God made firstfruit a law because it's already a principle which Abel discovered

Joagbaje:
The interesting part was that The reason for his first fruit was not the same reason God gave to isreal for FIRSTFRUITS.. God connected FIRSTFRUITS to Egypt

Exodus 13:14
And it shall be when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What is this? that thou shalt say unto him, By strength of hand the Lord brought us out from Egypt, from the house of bondage:

You should have added verse 15 na.

Exodus 13:14-15 (NIV)
14 “In days to come, when your son asks you, ‘What does this mean?’ say to him, ‘With a mighty hand the Lord brought us out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 15 When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the Lord killed the firstborn of both people and animals in Egypt. This is why I sacrifice to the Lord the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.’

The reason was clearly stated here o! it was not a matter of principle.

Joagbaje:
Question: has Abel been in Egypt? Was he delivered by God hand? No . It was by revelation he knew FIRSTFRUITS belongs to God as a principle

Thought you said reason was not the same. was Abel offering first fruits? offering firstling does not translate to firstfruit jor. BTW how do you calculate firstfruit?

Joagbaje:
we give offerings today because it's a principle.

Speak for yourself, some of us don't give 'offering' because it's an eternal principle. in fact some people give 'offering' because their church requested for such collections.

Joagbaje:
The bible was clear that money value was given as tithes. Money is a general medium of exchange. Money represents a mans labour.

Money was not given as tithe, money was used to redeem the tithe. Joagbaje, you must be reading literature or publications written by your pastor, if you read the bible, you will find that money was never given as tithe.

idnoble135: Lemme make a little contribution to the thread.
First, i would that, it be clear that i'm not a pastor or whatsoever anyone might think. The thinking of some as regards to the subject that anyone who agrees to such is brain washed or a pastor is shameful.
That point made, i'd add to what has been said that the subject is yet in existence and is valid.
My point comes from the word of the Master himself. The words of the Master is greater than the words of every one in the scriptures. His words can never fail.
And i yet discover that the Lord did not intend that tithe should go extinct.
We know the Lord is supreme and He is greater than Moses. The authority He commands is one that Moses did not have.
And we read of how the Master showed that when He brought the law of Moses to a wrap and introduced Kingdom principles (which the law was trying to do).
The master showed it here,


“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in
danger of the judgment.’
But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the
judgment. And whoever says
to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be
in danger of the council. But
whoever says, ‘You fool!’
shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:21-22

Here, the Lord showed Supremacy when He said, BUT I SAY UNTO YOU....
Again, the Master said on another occassion,

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou
shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a
woman to lust after her hath
committed adultery with her
already in his heart. Matthew 5:27-29

Again, we see the Lord's supremacy when He used the phrase "BUT I SAY UNTO YOU". The "BUT" showed He was bringing a change here.
But now, the Lord comes to the issue of tithe and behold what he said,
But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue
and every herb, and neglect
justice and the love of God.
These you ought to have
done, without neglecting the
others. Luke 11:42ESV

Is it not revealing? The Lord did not use the phrase, "BUT I SAY UNTO YOU". Instead, He said, These you ought to have
done. Thats one big reason to show the Lord never abolished it.
By this, we understand that the Lord never put an end to it, He commended it.
People ask why there was no record of tithe in the book of Acts of Apostles. And i tell them, the book of Acts shows the Church in its evolving stage. The Church as contained in Acts was not perfect, it was evolving. A good bible student will spot that maturity increased in the Church. The Church we read of in the early chapters is not the same in maturity as that we read of in the later chapters. The Church was still experiencing growth.
And the greatest reason why a thing should be done is not because the Apostles taught it but because the Master said so.
Tithing is not yet extinct. If the Master was aware of it and did not personally scrap it but approved it, i see no reason why some one should try to convince me other wise.
Shalom!

I am Glad that you made these quotations but come to think of it, did you notice that when he came to the tithing aspect he said WOE instead of BUT I tell you, why do you think He said WOE before He said this ought ye to have done, truth is tithe was never for God, But for those that He claimed as His inheritance, since they have no inheritance in Israel, and for that reason He commanded the Israelites to bring the tithes to His house for the Levites, this is quite understandable , you mention that the church in the book of acts was evolving? my goodness, did you ever read the accounts of the apostles in the book of acts? raising people from the dead, the lame walking , the dumb speaking, and liars being
struck dead instantly and buried, and you dare say evolving stage? I cant even begin to imagine what level of evolution that, you could use to compare with the church of today! do you realise that it was in the book of acts that Paul said to a man who offered him money so that the unction that was on Paul would also be on him, and paul said thy gifts perish with thee..., and he was struck blind, in your evolved church of today, people do this same thing they call it taping into the man of Gods anointing, this is your typical evolved church, compared it with the church in acts, and you will shut down for days, with your hands on your head..my dear the tithe them don turn the thing to extortion bros leave am, by the way quote on place in the old and new testament that the tithe was actually mentioned as money, apart from when it was instructed that when priest chooses a place to eat the tithe if you cant get to the venue, sell yours and send it in cash, through someone who will be going there since you cant get there, the person now gets to the venue and buys something equivalent to the cash apart from that mention one verse where the tithe was actually monetary I DARE YOU!