Uyi Iredia:

No. I just said if you have any ish with what I do here you can PM me.

Oh...sorry I thought you were angry about something.

jayriginal:

Its actually not though people try to make it seem so.

How so?

Uyi Iredia:

SMH. Your brain's a mush.

Sadly, you are known for incoherent nonsense. I really don't care for attention seeking brats. . .

texanomaly:
Oh...sorry I thought you were angry about something.

Actually he was trying to seek attention. I wonder why he thinks whats he's doing here is so special and novel that he needs to be PM'ed.

texanomaly:
Oh...sorry I thought you were angry about something.

Please ! I wasn't angry.

mazaje:

When it comes to religion most of them do not reason at all. . .

Agreed.

Mr Troll: Actually he was trying to seek attention. I wonder why he thinks whats he's doing here is so special and novel that he needs to be PM'ed.

smh...be nice...he is a good guy.

Uyi Iredia:

Please ! I wasn't angry.

texanomaly:
smh...be nice...he is a good guy.

Nah! He's just a little kid trying to be relevant. He needs to learn how to express himself properly first. . .

Mr Troll:

Agnostics believe that one cannot state categorically whether god does or does not exist. As i like to put it, man as of now lack the tools of proving the or disproving the existence of god. Atheists on the other hand state categorically that there's no god. Thats why i'm not atheist, its just the other extreme of belief in god. Neither of which have specific proof. . .

Thats wrong Sir.

Atheism isnt the position that there is no God. That is what you get with labels. Now there is "strong" atheism and "weak" atheism. All sorts of baloney. If you will believe it, there is even "Christian" atheism.

Atheism is a lack of belief. As such, agnostics are atheists because they do not believe. You can call them atheists playing safe if you want or as LogicBoy once said, "atheists without balls".

texanomaly:
How so?

Please see my post to Mr Troll immediately above.

jayriginal:

Thats wrong Sir.

Atheism isnt the position that there is no God. That is what you get with labels. Now there is "strong" atheism and "weak" atheism. All sorts of baloney. If you will believe it, there is even "Christian" atheism.

Atheism is a lack of belief. As such, agnostics are atheists because they do not believe. You can call them atheists playing safe if you want or as LogicBoy once said, "atheists without balls".

Hahaha @ bolded. Good one LB.

Sounds like everyone has an opinion on the subject but no one can agree. Hmmmmm

texanomaly:
Hahaha @ bolded. Good one LB.

Sounds like everyone has an opinion on the subject but no one can agree. Hmmmmm

And the op has given us a wonderful illustration on where 'everyone' can shove those opinions

jayriginal:

Thats wrong Sir.

Atheism isnt the position that there is no God. That is what you get with labels. Now there is "strong" atheism and "weak" atheism. All sorts of baloney. If you will believe it, there is even "Christian" atheism.

Atheism is a lack of belief. As such, agnostics are atheists because they do not believe. You can call them atheists playing safe if you want or as LogicBoy once said, "atheists without balls".

On the contrary, Atheists do state that there is no God.

What atheists and agnostics have in common is that both lack belief in god/gods because there is no evidence for it.
"Do you believe in god?" And "Is there a god?" are two different questions. While both agnostics and atheists will answer No to the first, atheists will answer No to the second while agnostics will answer I dont know to the second.
Now tell me, is there an atheist who doesn't say that there's no god?

Mr Troll: On the contrary, Atheists do state that there is no God.

What atheists and agnostics have in common is that both lack belief in god/gods because there is no evidence for it.
"Do you believe in god?" And "Is there a god?" are two different questions. While both agnostics and atheists will answer No to the first, atheists will answer No to the second while agnostics will answer I dont know to the second.
Now tell me, is there an atheist who doesn't say that there's no god?

Actually the first question is all thats necessary to establish atheism!

Im an atheist and I dont say there is no God because I dont know that for sure. I dont think anyone knows. If you call me an agnostic, you might as well call Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins agnostic because they dont also state that there is no God. Dawkins places himself on number 6 of the scale as Im sure the majority of people who call themselves atheists do.

People like to say that they are agnostic as it sounds respectable/safe/intellectual. Gnosticism relates to knowledge. In this case, knowledge of God. No one has knowledge of God (some people claim to). So in that sense, even the pope is agnostic. We all are. Not very helpful in my opinion. On the other hand, theism/atheism refers to status of belief. If you believe, you are a theist/deist. If you dont, you are an atheist. Its not necessary to state that there is no God. Some say they know there is none but that doesnt make them more or less atheists than those who say they simply dont believe. The atheists who say they know for certain that there is no God are probably a minority among atheists.

The term atheist/atheism is nothing more complex than a reference to those who do not believe. Accordingly the first question is all that is needed.


PS:
There is this quote of Carl Sagan I am looking for. Its something to the effect that he is agnostic to God the same way he is agnostic to the presence of an invisible fire breathing dragon in his garage.

jayriginal:

Actually the first question is all thats necessary to establish atheism!

Im an atheist and I dont say there is no God because I dont know that for sure. I dont think anyone knows. If you call me an agnostic, you might as well call Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins agnostic because they dont also state that there is no God. Dawkins places himself on number 6 of the scale as Im sure the majority of people who call themselves atheists do.

People like to say that they are agnostic as it sounds respectable/safe/intellectual. Gnosticism relates to knowledge. In this case, knowledge of God. No one has knowledge of God (some people claim to). So in that sense, even the pope is agnostic. We all are. Not very helpful in my opinion. On the other hand, theism/atheism refers to status of belief. If you believe, you are a theist/deist. If you dont, you are an atheist. Its not necessary to state that there is no God. Some say they know there is none but that doesnt make them more or less atheists than those who say they simply dont believe. The atheists who say they know for certain that there is no God are probably a minority among atheists.

The term atheist/atheism is nothing more complex than a reference to those who do not believe. Accordingly the first question is all that is needed.


PS:
There is this quote of Carl Sagan I am looking for. Its something to the effect that he is agnostic to God the same way he is agnostic to the presence of an invisible fire breathing dragon in his garage.

See...

No one agrees.
smh

texanomaly:

See...

No one agrees.
smh

Its really because of the label atheism has been given. The negativity associated with it is the reason why a number of people refuse to accept they are atheists. They therefore try to distance themselves.

People make a big deal out of atheism. You have people saying that atheism is the natural corollary to immorality (enigma), atheists just want to live sinful immoral lives (several people including Olaadegbu), atheists can be killed like mosquitoes (Frosbel) etc

In reality atheism is non belief in deities. It goes no further than that even if a particular atheist has his own peculiar ideas.

Thanks

jayriginal:

Actually the first question is all thats necessary to establish atheism!

is it?

Im an atheist and I dont say there is no God because I dont know that for sure. I dont think anyone knows. If you call me an agnostic, you might as well call Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins agnostic because they dont also state that there is no God.

Now, that is for you. Most people will call you agnostic atheist. Carl Sagan actually calls himself an agnostic, likewise Dawkins. But the thing is, since they're most likely agnostic atheists, its simpler to just call themselves atheists since the lay man can relate with that better; something Bertrand Russell made clear.

Dawkins places himself on number 6 of the scale as Im sure the majority of people who call themselves atheists do.

don't be too sure of this your majority. . . I could also make a statement to the effect that majority of atheists i know are actually sure that there's no god. . .number 7 things

People like to say that they are agnostic as it sounds respectable/safe/intellectual. Gnosticism relates to knowledge. In this case, knowledge of God. No one has knowledge of God (some people claim to). So in that sense, even the pope is agnostic. We all are. Not very helpful in my opinion. On the other hand, theism/atheism refers to status of belief. If you believe, you are a theist/deist. If you dont, you are an atheist. Its not necessary to state that there is no God. Some say they know there is none but that doesnt make them more or less atheists than those who say they simply dont believe. The atheists who say they know for certain that there is no God are probably a minority among atheists.

There is nothing safe about calling yourself agnostic. Safe from what exactly? And i don't think it has anything to do with sounding intellectual, i could say i'm agnostic because i honestly know that we don't know for sure if a god exists or not. When people say they don't believe in god, it is usually with respect to religious notions of god. Yes, we could say that we know for sure that all religious notions of god are false and nonsensical but then who could say that for a god to exist it must be as imagined by religion or by deists etc?

The term atheist/atheism is nothing more complex than a reference to those who do not believe. Accordingly the first question is all that is needed.

If so you could say that atheism and agnosticism are synonyms but is it so? Is there really no difference except in your idea of 'safe' and 'ballslessness'?

PS:
There is this quote of Carl Sagan I am looking for. Its something to the effect that he is agnostic to God the same way he is agnostic to the presence of an invisible fire breathing dragon in his garage.

No need for that.
Let me give you an analogy. . .

Say you were told that there's a tiny green transparent mushroom somewhere in the oceans, just 1. Now, we have searched for many years and covered about 5% of the total oceans and have not found it. Several conmen have tried to trick you by presenting many fake samples of said mushroom but you have examined them and found them to be fake. Would you say that because of this that there's no mushroom like that? Or that you don't believe there is such a mushroom? Do you have enough info to categorically make that statement? Sure, you can confidently say that all the samples so presented are fake but can you confidently say that there's no such mushroom?

texanomaly:

See...

No one agrees.
smh

is god one or three?

Mr Troll, I wouldnt say there is no mushroom but I am not sure what that has to do with me. I have said earlier that I do not state that there is no God so Im not sure why you are applying that analogy to me.

Ive made my points and apparently we are not going to agree over this, so . . .

Mr Troll: is god one or three?

Since you asked, I will tell you what I believe.

Know this; I WILL NOT argue religion with ANYONE. If you want my opinion, I will give it. My beliefs are just that, mine. I believe everyone has the right to worship, or not worship the way they choose.

I do not believe in the Holy Trinity. I believe God and Jesus Christ are different people. They both have glorified bodies. The Holy Ghost is a spirit being. I read the King James Version of the Bible. I was taught to pray, from childhood, in King James English. I still pray this way. I have a very close relationship with my Heavenly Father. I always have. I have had times when I have been less close, but prefer the closeness. I try to treat others as I would like to be treated. Even the Ateist. More than you asked for, but don't get me started.
Thanks for asking.

Tex

jayriginal: Mr Troll, I wouldnt say there is no mushroom but I am not sure what that has to do with me. I have said earlier that I do not state that there is no God so Im not sure why you are applying that analogy to me.

I wasn't applying that analogy to just you Jay, for what its worth i think you're more honest about your stand than most atheists here who like to state their opinions as facts so it is for them i put up that analogy. Stating that there's no god is not factual neither is stating there is but then you get my point. . .

Ive made my points and apparently we are not going to agree over this, so . . .

Ok, cool. . .

texanomaly:
Since you asked, I will tell you what I believe.

Know this; I WILL NOT argue religion with ANYONE. If you want my opinion, I will give it. My beliefs are just that, mine. I believe everyone has the right to worship, or not worship the way they choose.

I do not believe in the Holy Trinity. I believe God and Jesus Christ are different people. They both have glorified bodies. The Holy Ghost is a spirit being. I read the King James Version of the Bible. I was taught to pray, from childhood, in King James English. I still pray this way. I have a very close relationship with my Heavenly Father. I always have. I have had times when I have been less close, but prefer the closeness. I try to treat others as I would like to be treated. Even the Ateist. More than you asked for, but don't get me started.
Thanks for asking.

Tex

you fully well know that most NLanders will never agree with this your position. I hope you do see the point of my question now?

People will always have differing opinions on every subject on earth so there's no need shaking your head over it especially when such differing opinions are being argued rationally and in a civil manner. . .

Edit: Maybe i'm being harsh? Hey! I'm here to have fun o. I need to go back to my original ministry, this private jets are distracting. . .

I was raised in a christian home and I have never experienced God as many christians would say. Well, I saw people speak in tongues and some fall and say its HS anoitin but my later studies in pshychology made me realize that what we believe in can influence what we feel weather its real or not.
Why didn't I experience God. Why wasn't there a difference in the life of people who claimed they experienced God? Why haven't seen a human who lived a life that is devoid of sin? Why all these claims.
If u believe the God will answer ur prayers, it becomes a self prophecy that must be fullfilled. Ur whole psyic will work towards seeing the fulfilment of that prophecy which is that ur prayer will be answered. Hence when u pray ten different prayers and only one of the requests manifests in ur life, ur prophecy have been fullfilled hence the belief that God has answered ur prayer.
I don't kbow if God exists but if he does, I think christianity mocks him a lot, while islam give him a bad name.
Well like a poster said, I have come to understand that the best person I know is me. If God wants to reveal himself to me I am opened for that. But I don't believe in the devil, I believe that every evil we do comes from within, it comes from our thought. I also think most religous people a delusioned, because they always claim they know what they don't understand. To that is the higest form of mental disorder. Its like a mad man thinking he is not mad. There is no cure to such madness.

Mr Troll: you fully well know that most NLanders will never agree with this your position. I hope you do see the point of my question now?

People will always have differing opinions on every subject on earth so there's no need shaking your head over it especially when such differing opinions are being argued rationally and in a civil manner. . .

Edit: Maybe i'm being harsh? Hey! I'm here to have fun o. I need to go back to my original ministry, this private jets are distracting. . .

Isn't' that the beauty of it? I can shake my head till it falls off, if I want. You can 'not believe,' if you want.

I mean no disrespect when I shake my head, and smile. It's just my way of saying, I respectfully disagree, or I just don't get this. I'm grateful we can voice opinions here, especially if they are not agreed upon by all. It's nice to have a voice. Don't you think. I read on a thread this morning that you don't tell your family and friends you are Atheist. I'm glad you have NL to voice your beliefs and opinions.

Smile.

Tex

Its alright then. Maybe i misinterpreted your head shaking

As for the other part, you need to be in africa to understand. Especially here in 9ja where you have at least 10 churches within a 1km distance. . .

Mr Troll: Its alright then. Maybe i misinterpreted your head shaking

As for the other part, you need to be in africa to understand. Especially here in 9ja where you have at least 10 churches within a 1km distance. . .

I will be next month.

texanomaly:
I will be next month.

oh really? Which part of 9ja?

The only thing to do is to respect their opinion. No need for name calling or cast judgement which both sides are guilty of here on Nairaland. Personally I enjoy conversing with atheists. Not because I try to convert them but I hope to stand as a refutation to the notion that believers in Christ are mindless drones who do not use their brains or are learned. To that effect, I will converse with any atheist especially those whose foundation is on the works of the New Atheists.

Mr Troll: oh really? Which part of 9ja?

Is it really wise to announce it for all to see?

texanomaly:
Is it really wise to announce it for all to see?

lol. Its your call really. There's nothing to be scared of. Its not like somebody here will start searching the whole of, say Lagos for Tex