Ubenedictus:


i think you are hurriedly dismissing them. Sedesvacantist are a tough nut, they are usually wrong in their conclusions but they are not necessarily all wrong.

Most times they raise important issue that should make a catholic think, vatican 2 is always an interesting topic to discuss, the council that shaped the catholic church today is very very much more controversial than the just concluded synod that everyone is still talking about.


They have half truths, lies sensation stories and all that, but, in every lie there is a germ of truth, the sedesvacantist just have a skewed perspective.

See me see trouble, what is my business with one who has excommunicated himself,or are they Catholics? It's rather interesting that you're inclined towards an Ideology that takes one out of the church.

At that time I will gather you; at that time I will bring you home. I will give you honor and praise   among all the peoples of the earth when I restore your fortunes before your very eyes,”says the Lord. Zephh 3:20

Today we are praying for KingMEXX

May our prayers for you today find favour in the sight of God through Christ our Lord.

Good morning brethren and do have. A blessed day ahead

italo:


For me there is nothing like "liberal Catholic" and "conservative Catholic." There should be no dichotomy therein.

A Catholic should be both conservative and liberal, just like Jesus Christ.

Some people who call themselves Conservative Catholics would not as much as baptize the children of a single mother...while some people who call themselves Liberal Catholic would obstinately denounce the doctrines of God like (marriage being between a man an a woman), yet claim to be Catholic. Some so-called conservatives will disown a child who , marries a non Catholic, while some so-called liberal Catholics will have children out of wedlock and proclaim it to be okay, no need to confess and right the wrong. These things are sins!

These things are sins!

A Catholic is one who upholds the doctrine of God (as taught by the Church), but who knows that the essence for this doctrine is love...love for God and man.

A Catholic upholds Church teaching, admits his wrong when he falters, and is able to look at those who err through the eyes of mercy and love.

Be vigilant when people are trying to create false dichotomies and division...as if to say there are two different kinds of Catholics...two different churches in one.

If you will disown your child for marrying a non-Catholic, you're simply unCatholic, not conservative Catholic.

If you believe gay marriage is okay, you're simply uncatholic, not liberal Catholic.

A Catholic is conservative and liberal.

God bless you.

Good one. At the bold, believe me Italo, a true catholic will mourn his/her child that leaves the church. Disowning a child for this reason is wrong, but how many of us can check our actions when we are wounded. I'll rather use other examples, for I have seen the pain of a parent whose child left the church in marriage. Some actually feel like they've disappointed God, for to them, they've lost a soul kept under their Care.

vest:
Ok Thanks So Whc One Are U?ok I Wil

I am non, at least I consider myself non of the two. I am simply Catholic, am sure one can be Catholic without being conservative or liberal, there must be a position in-between this too, that's where I prefer to be

Syncan:


Sedes Vacantist! They are a confused bunch, flip flopping their way through, yet pride will not allow them retrace their steps. They get their beliefs from a site called Most holy family Monastery, which some of them think is an actual monastery. The owners use half truths, unverified claims, fear, sensationalism and all sorts of cut and join to hypnotize their followers. Little by Little you see conspiracy in everything including what your own family members do or say, but they start with the church hierarchy. Pay no heed to them bro, that's nothing compared to what the church has stood against in history. Salc has said much in advise.

Well interesting thing here is, whereas this guys ideology look like or sounds like that of Sedevacantist, he openly denounces sedevantism, infact I have debated alongside him against a sedevacantist few months ago, except he became one recently and that's one thing I don't really understand about him

hurricaneChris:


I reserve my comments on that fellow.

SalC how are u?
I never failed to pray for u silently.
Tight schedule won't allow me type here.

Lol that fellow to me is an interesting character.

Am really fine dear, thanks for the prayers, its almost obvious you are busy, we hardly see you around, but be of good cheer for the Lord is your muscle

SalC:
Well interesting thing here is, whereas this guys ideology look like or sounds like that of Sedevacantist, he openly denounces sedevantism, infact I have debated alongside him against a sedevacantist few months ago, except he became one recently and that's one thing I don't really understand about him

Oh Ok, I see. Traditional Catholics...I see...well the problem is knowing when your criticism of the novo ordo missa and vatican two gets to a point bordering on excommunication. As long as the one continues to be Obedient to the Churchs' teaching, his line of thought is welcome for consideration and needed to keep the church in the right path.

Ubenedictus:


interesting choice of words, the pope took the neutral position. I read it a few days ago, He is a great referee, i didn't know one can say so many quotable and fine words without actually saying something that takes a stand.


Usually the sections not agreed in the synod are scrapped and new stuff are written and voted upon, i found it interesting that the pope decided to keep the paragraphs that weren't agreed upon in the final document and just published the result of the voting.

Everybody seems unhappy with card lorenzo, they seem think the tried to manipulate the synod.


Anyway till next year.

However we look at it, am not sure the pope took a neutral position in the real sense of neutrality, it's true he was silent during the synod, but silence in this context isn't same as being neutral,

At the end of the vote, he ought to scrap those paragraphs already discussed and voted for, but our dear pope did otherwise, the big question is WHY?. This is probably because he leaned toward the progressive group and somehow is hoping further discussion on it will get the progressive group their wish.

KingMEXX:
I know am a bit late, buh I choose 24th October..
Its my birthday.

Currently writing my professionals, that's why I've not been regularly online, remember us in prayers peeps.
Happy new month in arrears and I pray that God would bless us with his strength to take part actively in this month's devotion and for our lives to be impacted upon +vely at the very end...Peace

"Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows"-----Lk12:6-7.

As we unite in prayers for you today, may your future be secure in God's hands.

Happy Birthday bro.

SalC:
However we look at it, am not sure the pope took a neutral position in the real sense of neutrality, it's true he was silent during the synod, but silence in this context isn't same as being neutral,

At the end of the vote, he ought to scrap those paragraphs already discussed and voted for, but our dear pope did otherwise, the big question is WHY?. This is probably because he leaned toward the progressive group and somehow is hoping further discussion on it will get the progressive group their wish.

Did you read his speech Salc?

Oh happy birthday too KingMEXX, may the Lord bless and keep you

Syncan:



Did you read his speech Salc?

I did, his speech and action doesn't seem same

SalC:
I did, his speech and action doesn't seem same

Do you mind elaborating on this?

Dear Eminences, Beatitudes, Excellencies, Brothers and Sisters,

With a heart full of appreciation and gratitude I want to thank, along with you, the Lord who has accompanied and guided us in the past days, with the light of the Holy Spirit.

From the heart I thank Cardinal Lorenzo Baldisseri, Secretary General of the Synod, Bishop Fabio Fabene, under-secretary, and with them I thank the Relators, Cardinal Peter Erdo, who has worked so much in these days of family mourning, and the Special Secretary Bishop Bruno Forte, the three President delegates, the transcribers, the consultors, the translators and the unknown workers, all those who have worked with true fidelity and total dedication behind the scenes and without rest. Thank you so much from the heart.

I thank all of you as well, dear Synod fathers, Fraternal Delegates, Auditors, and Assessors, for your active and fruitful participation. I will keep you in prayer asking the Lord to reward you with the abundance of His gifts of grace!

I can happily say that – with a spirit of collegiality and of synodality – we have truly lived the experience of “Synod,” a path of solidarity, a “journey together.”

And it has been “a journey” – and like every journey there were moments of running fast, as if wanting to conquer time and reach the goal as soon as possible; other moments of fatigue, as if wanting to say “enough”; other moments of enthusiasm and ardour. There were moments of profound consolation listening to the testimony of true pastors, who wisely carry in their hearts the joys and the tears of their faithful people. Moments of consolation and grace and comfort hearing the testimonies of the families who have participated in the Synod and have shared with us the beauty and the joy of their married life. A journey where the stronger feel compelled to help the less strong, where the more experienced are led to serve others, even through confrontations. And since it is a journey of human beings, with the consolations there were also moments of desolation, of tensions and temptations, of which a few possibilities could be mentioned:

 - One, a temptation to hostile inflexibility, that is, wanting to close oneself within the written word, (the letter) and not allowing oneself to be surprised by God, by the God of surprises, (the spirit); within the law, within the certitude of what we know and not of what we still need to learn and to achieve. From the time of Christ, it is the temptation of the zealous, of the scrupulous, of the solicitous and of the so-called – today – “traditionalists” and also of the intellectuals.

 - The temptation to a destructive tendency to goodness [it. buonismo], that in the name of a deceptive mercy binds the wounds without first curing them and treating them; that treats the symptoms and not the causes and the roots. It is the temptation of the “do-gooders,” of the fearful, and also of the so-called “progressives and liberals.”

 - The temptation to transform stones into bread to break the long, heavy, and painful fast (cf. Lk 4:1-4); and also to transform the bread into a stone and cast it against the sinners, the weak, and the sick (cf Jn 8:7), that is, to transform it into unbearable burdens (Lk 11:46).

 - The temptation to come down off the Cross, to please the people, and not stay there, in order to fulfil the will of the Father; to bow down to a worldly spirit instead of purifying it and bending it to the Spirit of God.

 - The temptation to neglect the “depositum fidei” [the deposit of faith], not thinking of themselves as guardians but as owners or masters [of it]; or, on the other hand, the temptation to neglect reality, making use of meticulous language and a language of smoothing to say so many things and to say nothing! They call them “byzantinisms,” I think, these things…

Dear brothers and sisters, the temptations must not frighten or disconcert us, or even discourage us, because no disciple is greater than his master; so if Jesus Himself was tempted – and even called Beelzebul (cf. Mt 12:24) – His disciples should not expect better treatment.

Personally I would be very worried and saddened if it were not for these temptations and these animated discussions; this movement of the spirits, as St Ignatius called it (Spiritual Exercises, 6), if all were in a state of agreement, or silent in a false and quietist peace. Instead, I have seen and I have heard – with joy and appreciation – speeches and interventions full of faith, of pastoral and doctrinal zeal, of wisdom, of frankness and of courage: and of parresia. And I have felt that what was set before our eyes was the good of the Church, of families, and the “supreme law,” the “good of souls” (cf. Can. 1752). And this always – we have said it here, in the Hall – without ever putting into question the fundamental truths of the Sacrament of marriage: the indissolubility, the unity, the faithfulness, the fruitfulness, that openness to life (cf. Cann. 1055, 1056; and Gaudium et spes, 48).

And this is the Church, the vineyard of the Lord, the fertile Mother and the caring Teacher, who is not afraid to roll up her sleeves to pour oil and wine on people’s wound; who doesn’t see humanity as a house of glass to judge or categorize people. This is the Church, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and composed of sinners, needful of God’s mercy. This is the Church, the true bride of Christ, who seeks to be faithful to her spouse and to her doctrine. It is the Church that is not afraid to eat and drink with prostitutes and publicans. The Church that has the doors wide open to receive the needy, the penitent, and not only the just or those who believe they are perfect! The Church that is not ashamed of the fallen brother and pretends not to see him, but on the contrary feels involved and almost obliged to lift him up and to encourage him to take up the journey again and accompany him toward a definitive encounter with her Spouse, in the heavenly Jerusalem.

The is the Church, our Mother! And when the Church, in the variety of her charisms, expresses herself in communion, she cannot err: it is the beauty and the strength of the sensus fidei, of that supernatural sense of the faith which is bestowed by the Holy Spirit so that, together, we can all enter into the heart of the Gospel and learn to follow Jesus in our life. And this should never be seen as a source of confusion and discord.

Many commentators, or people who talk, have imagined that they see a disputatious Church where one part is against the other, doubting even the Holy Spirit, the true promoter and guarantor of the unity and harmony of the Church – the Holy Spirit who throughout history has always guided the barque, through her Ministers, even when the sea was rough and choppy, and the ministers unfaithful and sinners.

And, as I have dared to tell you , [as] I told you from the beginning of the Synod, it was necessary to live through all this with tranquillity, and with interior peace, so that the Synod would take place cum Petro and sub Petro (with Peter and under Peter), and the presence of the Pope is the guarantee of it all.

We will speak a little bit about the Pope, now, in relation to the Bishops [laughing]. So, the duty of the Pope is that of guaranteeing the unity of the Church; it is that of reminding the faithful of  their duty to faithfully follow the Gospel of Christ; it is that of reminding the pastors that their first duty is to nourish the flock – to nourish the flock – that the Lord has entrusted to them, and to seek to welcome – with fatherly care and mercy, and without false fears – the lost sheep. I made a mistake here. I said welcome: [rather] to go out and find them.

His duty is to remind everyone that authority in the Church is a service, as Pope Benedict XVI clearly explained, with words I cite verbatim: “The Church is called and commits herself to exercise this kind of authority which is service and exercises it not in her own name, but in the name of Jesus Christ… through the Pastors of the Church, in fact: it is he who guides, protects and corrects them, because he loves them deeply. But the Lord Jesus, the supreme Shepherd of our souls, has willed that the Apostolic College, today the Bishops, in communion with the Successor of Peter… to participate in his mission of taking care of God's People, of educating them in the faith and of guiding, inspiring and sustaining the Christian community, or, as the Council puts it, ‘to see to it... that each member of the faithful shall be led in the Holy Spirit to the full development of his own vocation in accordance with Gospel preaching, and to sincere and active charity’ and to exercise that liberty with which Christ has set us free (cf. Presbyterorum Ordinis, 6)… and it is through us,” Pope Benedict continues, “that the Lord reaches souls, instructs, guards and guides them. St Augustine, in his Commentary on the Gospel of St John, says: ‘let it therefore be a commitment of love to feed the flock of the Lord’ (cf. 123, 5); this is the supreme rule of conduct for the ministers of God, an unconditional love, like that of the Good Shepherd, full of joy, given to all, attentive to those close to us and solicitous for those who are distant (cf. St Augustine, Discourse 340, 1; Discourse 46, 15), gentle towards the weakest, the little ones, the simple, the sinners, to manifest the infinite mercy of God with the reassuring words of hope (cf. ibid., Epistle, 95, 1).”

So, the Church is Christ’s – she is His bride – and all the bishops, in communion with the Successor of Peter, have the task and the duty of guarding her and serving her, not as masters but as servants. The Pope, in this context, is not the supreme lord but rather the supreme servant – the “servant of the servants of God”; the guarantor of the obedience and the conformity of the Church to the will of God, to the Gospel of Christ, and to the Tradition of the Church, putting aside every personal whim, despite being – by the will of Christ Himself – the “supreme Pastor and Teacher of all the faithful” (Can. 749) and despite enjoying “supreme, full, immediate, and universal ordinary power in the Church” (cf. Cann. 331-334).

Dear brothers and sisters, now we still have one year to mature, with true spiritual discernment, the proposed ideas and to find concrete solutions to so many difficulties and innumerable challenges that families must confront; to give answers to the many discouragements that surround and suffocate families.

One year to work on the “Synodal Relatio” which is the faithful and clear summary of everything that has been said and discussed in this hall and in the small groups. It is presented to the Episcopal Conferences as “lineamenta” [guidelines].

May the Lord accompany us, and guide us in this journey for the glory of His Name, with the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary and of Saint Joseph. And please, do not forget to pray for me! Thank you!

[The hymn Te Deum was sung, and Benediction given.]

Thank you, and rest well, eh?


http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2014/10/18/pope_francis_speech_at_the_conclusion_of_the_synod/1108944

Syncan:



Do you mind elaborating on this?

Is there really much to elaborate? From his beautiful speech up there, one would think the matter is settled but why retaining it for next year's synod? Isn't there other issues to be discussed? Isn't this issue discussed and voted on? That part is where I tend to think he's hoping for something else. Btw we know he too have been singing the mercy song too

Happy birthday KingMEXX... Wishing you LLNP and success in your exams...

And since it is a journey of human beings, with the consolations there were also moments of desolation, of tensions and temptations, of which a few possibilities could be mentioned:


- One, a temptation to hostile inflexibility, that is, wanting to close oneself within the written word, (the letter) and not allowing oneself to be surprised by God, by the God of surprises, (the spirit); within the law, within the certitude of what we know and not of what we still need to learn and to achieve. From the time of Christ, it is the temptation of the zealous, of the scrupulous, of the solicitous and of the so-called – today – “traditionalists” and also of the intellectuals.

-The temptation to a destructive tendency to goodness [it. buonismo], that in the name of a deceptive mercy binds the wounds without first curing them and treating them; that treats the symptoms and not the causes and the roots. It is the temptation of the “do-gooders,” of the fearful, and also of the so-called “progressives and liberals.”

- The temptation to transform stones into bread to break the long, heavy, and painful fast (cf. Lk 4:1-4); and also to transform the bread into a stone and cast it against the sinners, the weak, and the sick (cf Jn 8:7), that is, to transform it into unbearable burdens (Lk 11:46).

- The temptation to come down off the Cross, to please the people, and not stay there, in order to fulfil the will of the Father; to bow down to a worldly spirit instead of purifying it and bending it to the Spirit of God.

- The temptation to neglect the “depositum fidei” [the deposit of faith], not thinking of themselves as guardians but as owners or masters [of it]; or, on the other hand, the temptation to neglect reality, making use of meticulous language and a language of smoothing to say so many things and to say nothing! They call them “byzantinisms,” I think, these things…

Golden words from a shepherd.

SalC:
Is there really much to elaborate? From his beautiful speech up there, one would think the matter is settled but why retaining it for next year's synod? Isn't there other issues to be discussed? Isn't this issue discussed and voted on? That part is where I tend to think he's hoping for something else. Btw we know he too have been singing the mercy song too

Isn't it going to be a dead and buried subject if the general synod turns it down once and for all? Being where he is and knowing the pressures from all corners why wont he trust the Holy Spirit who spoke in this synod to speak in the general? Even if he hopes, let the Holy Spirit lead. Did Jesus not sing the mercy song too?

Syncan:


Isn't it going to be a dead and buried subject if the general synod turns it down once and for all? Being where he is and knowing the pressures from all corners why wont he trust the Holy Spirit who spoke in this synod to speak in the general? Even if he hopes, let the Holy Spirit lead. Did Jesus not sing the mercy song too?

May the Holy Spirit lead.

SalC:
May the Holy Spirit lead.

Amen Amen, let's continue to pray for God's direction on the Pope, and listen to him, he is the shepherd, the vicar of Christ.

Good morning everybody. So much has been happeninf on this thread, the prayers, the discussions on the synod and also on Sede vacantists.
For me, i feel the Holy Spirit inspired and directed the synod. You like it or not the church is praying and God will never allow the smoke of the devil to overwhelm the church. I am confident on the word of God and his promise to always be with his church. That being said, we should never stop praying for the church.

On Sedes as the call themselves, I remember the first question i asked on this thread was about them and how to counter thier so "erroneous" point. If you all remember, I said my brother had just become a member and my family was at loss at what to do. As at the time i brought it up here, many of us had not heard of them. Trust it is good that catholics are becoming aware and you have to know your faith or less trust me, you will sing thier song. As some one who has one as a brother, it has not been easy. Their main target is always the pope. They are always ready with issues against the pope. @ Salc, I have a feeling that this your fears about the pope was instilled in you from you sedevacantist friend. My brother almost did that to me.
Well, we have to keep praying for them and the church. May God bless us all. Amen

Syncan:

Good one. At the bold, believe me Italo, a true catholic will mourn his/her child that leaves the church. Disowning a child for this reason is wrong, but how many of us can check our actions when we are wounded. I'll rather use other examples, for I have seen the pain of a parent whose child left the church in marriage. Some actually feel like they've disappointed God, for to them, they've lost a soul kept under their Care.

I agree. It must be very painful for such a parent. But a Catholic mind should not remaim brooding over anything.

I agree. As humans, we are susceptible to making rash and often wrong decisions and actions when we are wounded. But a Catholic mind should not persist in wrong.

I have heard of parents who insist on ostracizing such a child even when their priest advices them to love and pray for the child.

To err is not the problem, but to be obstinate in error.

A Catholic mind knows that a sincere non-Catholic is more pleasing to God than an insincere Catholic. So if that Child is sincere in his faith, he/she could be closer to God/heaven than the other child who follows you to daily mass but is insincere in his faith.

We are talking about abandoning the faith.

Peter abandoned, even denied the Lord. The prodigal son abandoned, even rejected the father.

How did Jesus and the Father react?

God can help everybody with similar circumstances react like him, if they allow him. Of this I'm sure.

May God help us.

italo:


I agree. It must be very painful for such a parent. But a Catholic mind should not remaim brooding over anything.

I agree. As humans, we are susceptible to making rash and often wrong decisions and actions when we are wounded. But a Catholic mind should not persist in wrong.

I have heard of parents who insist on ostracizing such a child even when their priest advices them to love and pray for the child.

To err is not the problem, but to be obstinate in error.

A Catholic mind knows that a sincere non-Catholic is more pleasing to God than an insincere Catholic. So if that Child is sincere in his faith, he/she could be closer to God/heaven than the other child who follows you to daily mass but is insincere in his faith.

We are talking about abandoning the faith.

Peter abandoned, even denied the Lord. The prodigal son abandoned, even rejected the father.

How did Jesus and the Father react?

God can help everybody with similar circumstances react like him, if they allow him. Of this I'm sure.

May God help us.

I am glad you talked about "remain brooding" and "persist in wrong", that's why being quick to use it as an example of what makes one "uncatholic" isn't the best.

"This is the Church, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and composed of sinners, needful of God’s mercy. This is the Church, the true bride of Christ, who seeks to be faithful to her spouse and to her doctrine"....Pope Francis.

Syncan:



I am glad you talked about "remain brooding" and "persist in wrong", that's why being quick to use it as an example of what makes one "uncatholic" isn't the best.

"This is the Church, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and composed of sinners, needful of God’s mercy. This is the Church, the true bride of Christ, who seeks to be faithful to her spouse and to her doctrine"....Pope Francis.

Ah! Allow me to rephrase.

They are being uncatholic in those actions.

Just like I consider myself uncatholic in my actions when I contravene the precepts of the Church.

Hope I'm free now. Lol.

italo:


Ah! Allow me to rephrase.

They are being uncatholic in those actions.

Just like I consider myself uncatholic in my actions when I contravene the precepts of the Church.

Hope I'm free now. Lol.

bros.

KingMEXX,

Happy birthday! wishing you many more fruitful years.

KingMEXX,

May the Lord keep you and shine his face upon you.

Amen.

KingMEXX,

It's a special day for you and I join in wishing you the greatest and beneficial gifts nature has for you.
May the Lord strengthen you in your task and guide you on the right path always through Christ Jesus - Amen.

Syncan:


bros.

Lol.

italo:


Lol.

Guy, I once recommended someone for you, how far na?

Syncan:



Guy, I once recommended someone for you, how far na?

I didn't see this..

Looks like am gonna spread mat

Turning the old page +holy gossip