Kamsified:


Nne I'm here o
Chilling in jnrbayano's private jet

I don gv up....

darknez:


Hmmmmmm.....

Suppose I tell you he is right, would you still disagree?

darknez:

Nah...I wouldn't want you to change your mind. I am sure you believe your reasons for thinking Catholics are Christians are very solid.
What if I give you the following reasons to believe Catholics aren't Christians:
1) God condemned the making of graven images for worship... Catholics make images and even bow to them.
2) Christians are commanded to pray through Christ...Catholics do not only pray through Christ, they also pray through Saints when the Bible states that Christ is the only mediator between God and man.

darknez:

Just saying.
What do you think makes someone Christian?

Bia nwokem mechie onu gi ebe ahu before something happens to you. Are you high on vomit or just overwhelmed by your "darknez".

and don't quote me oooooo

chikk:






Bia nwokem mechie onu gi ebe ahu before something happens to you. Are you high on vomit or just overwhelmed by your "darknez".

and don't quote me oooooo

*Thinking of what to say that would get her veeeeeeeeeery upset*

Oh...yes, I quoted you.

That's not exactly it but it will do since I am feeling very Christian today.

wizzyjay:
pls any pages of the blessed sacrament member here

yes that was my first society before i left delta state. its not in my present diocese.

lacum:

yes that was my first society before i left delta state. its not in my present diocese.

you can form it there now

darknez:


Nah...I wouldn't want you to change your mind. I am sure you believe your reasons for thinking Catholics are Christians are very solid.

What if I give you the following reasons to believe Catholics aren't Christians:

1) God condemned the making of graven images for worship... Catholics make images and even bow to them.

2) Christians are commanded to pray through Christ...Catholics do not only pray through Christ, they also pray through Saints when the Bible states that Christ is the only mediator between God and man.

Let me give reply to your reasons.

1. Catholics don't make images "For Worship", they are just the way people keep images of their loved ones.
No body bows to image in Catholic, if you see anybody bowing around any image, know that they are not bowing to the image but the person it portrays.

2. Yes, Christ is the only mediator between God and man but it's never a sin for man to have mediator between him and Christ and that's where Mary stands.
Catholics pray to Jesus Christ and also to Him through Mary.
Catholics believe Mother and child relationship still exist between Jesus and Mary because of some examples we read in the bible like the Miracle He performed at the wedding in Cannan.

There has bn situations where one would pray but wouldn't get answer but when they do through Mary, they would mysteriously know why their prayer is not answered and make corrections, then get answer to their prayer.

Just like we believe Jesus is alive, Catholics believe Mary too is alive.

She even teaches prayer. For example she appeared to someone and said people should always pray this prayer
"Oh our Jesus, Forgive us our sins, Save us from the fire of hell and Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are in most need of Your mercy"

Now tell me what glorifies Mary in that prayer she taught.

Rich4god:


I don gv up....

Lol sorry na

biuti:

Let me give reply to your reasons.

1. Catholics don't make images "For Worship", they are just the way people keep images of their loved ones.
No body bows to image in Catholic, if you see anybody bowing around any image, know that they are not bowing to the image but the person it portrays.

2. Yes, Christ is the only mediator between God and man but it's never a sin for man to have mediator between him and Christ and that's where Mary stands.
Catholics pray to Jesus Christ and also to Him through Mary.
Catholics believe Mother and child relationship still exist between Jesus and Mary because of some examples we read in the bible like the Miracle He performed at the wedding in Cannan.

There has bn situations where one would pray but wouldn't get answer but when they do through Mary, they would mysteriously know why their prayer is not answered and make corrections, then get answer to their prayer.

Just like we believe Jesus is alive, Catholics believe Mary too is alive.

She even teaches prayer. For example she appeared to someone and said people should always pray this prayer
"Oh our Jesus, Forgive us our sins, Save us from the fire of hell and Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are in most need of Your mercy"

Now tell me what glorifies Mary in that prayer she taught.

Well thought out response. They make sense too.

Now for the bold: You said Mary taught that prayer? Can you give me a quote from the bible where that is?

darknez:


Well thought out response. They make sense too.

Now for the bold: You said Mary thought that prayer? Can you give me a quote from the bible where that is?

Why must it be in the Bible for it to be true?

wizzyjay:


you can form it there now

bro i dont think its about forming societies but making sure d existing ones a still working fine. i am also a legionary n now i hv to make sure d legion is strong first. tks

Geist:
Why must it be in the Bible for it to be true?

Um...but you are the one who used MUST and even went as far as making it bold.

Anyways, I don't expect everything to be in the Bible, otherwise I would expect my last birthday celebration to have a mention there too. But considering that not every Christian is Catholic, don't you think it would be worrisome to explain some concepts using non-Biblical revelations?

darknez:


Well thought out response. They make sense too.

Now for the bold: You said Mary taught that prayer? Can you give me a quote from the bible where that is?

Thank you. The teaching of that pray happened just some years back!

You may read this if you're interested
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A1tima_Prayers?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C6115353032

And, do you think what is written in the bible alone is all that happened or inspired by the holy spirit during that time?

darknez:


Um...but you are the one who used MUST and even went as far as making it bold.

Anyways, I don't expect everything to be in the Bible, otherwise I would expect my last birthday celebration to have a mention there too. But considering that not every Christian is Catholic, don't you think it would be worrisome to explain some concepts using non-Biblical revelations?

I used must because your post seemed like you required every information about Christianity to be in the Bible. Anyway since we both agree every truth cannot be in the Bible then it only follows that there are truths in other sources outside the Bible. Christ only has one flock, nothing can be worrisome for those who remain in his fold. There was Christianity before the Bible was compiled and there was also conflicts within these communities of Christians but history tells us that they never relied solely on any books but rather on the leadership of the Church. Besides the apparition of Mary the other guy referred to happened years after the Bible was compiled so there was no way it could have been in the Bible.

darknez:


Um...but you are the one who used MUST and even went as far as making it bold.

Anyways, I don't expect everything to be in the Bible, otherwise I would expect my last birthday celebration to have a mention there too. But considering that not every Christian is Catholic, don't you think it would be worrisome to explain some concepts using non-Biblical revelations?

Oh, i didn't even know you agreed everything can't be in the bible.
Geist already answered you.

biuti:


Thank you. The teaching of that pray happened just some years back!

You may read this if you're interested
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A1tima_Prayers?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C6115353032

And, do you think what is written in the bible alone is all that happened or inspired by the holy spirit during that time?

I will pass on that link you shared cause I don't trust wikipedia. It has a lot of good stuff no doubt but it is easily manipulated too.

@Bold: But you said the 'teaching' from Mary is quite recent. Not exactly as old as Biblical revelations.

Geist:
I used must because your post seemed like you required every information about Christianity to be in the Bible. Anyway since we both agree every truth cannot be in the Bible then it only follows that there are truths in other sources outside the Bible. Christ only has one flock, nothing can be worrisome for those who remain in his fold. There was Christianity before the Bible was compiled and there was also conflicts within these communities of Christians but history tells us that they never relied solely on any books but rather on the leadership of the Church. Besides the apparition of Mary the other guy referred to happened years after the Bible was compiled so there was no way it could have been in the Bible.

Now you give a lot of info all at once. Let me see if I can highlight the main points:

1) We agree not every truth is Biblical.
2) Truths can be found in other sources from the Bible.
3) Christ has only one flock.
4) Christianity existed before the Bible, as we know it in present times
5) The early Christian community relied on the Leadership of the Church for guidance, not on 'books'.

Okies....hope I was able to cover all the points?

Now, apart from 1) and 4) don't you think the other points are problematic?

2) Truths can be found in other sources no doubt. I can find some truths in a very good Mathematics text.

If 1 is taken as a unit and 2 is taken as two units, where 3 is similarly taken as 3 units such that
(1 + 1 = 2), (2 + 1 = 3), and (1 + 2 = 3)...it therefore follows that the operator "+", has a positive effect for which the operands increases by a unit when subsequent operands are added by just one unit.

That bad example up there is true for all time and is taken to be a universal truth, irrespective of any culture, language or creed.

However, the truth I presume you talk about, should also have that element of universality for it to be from God. Since the truths are non biblical, at what point do we draw the line between the truths revealed by the Spirit and those which are made by man?

I am not sure if you see the problem therein?

3) Christ has more than one flock. Read up John 10:16. If that is the case, then the issue of leaving the flock is rendered irrelevant because some are already out. Thence the problem I mentioned about having a common bases for knowing revealed truths e.g the Bible remains.

5) The Leadership of the Church? Which Church? What Leadership? The one you follow? The one followed by Anglicans? Methodists? Protestants?

biuti:


Oh, i didn't even know you agreed everything can't be in the bible.
Geist already answered you.

Yeah I agreed but there is still the challenge of knowing which is inspired or not.

darknez:


Yeah I agreed but there is still the challenge of knowing which is inspired or not.

The holy spirit can help you to know the one He inspired, just the way you believed the ones in the bible though you were not there and neither were you the one inspired directly.

darknez:


I will pass on that link you shared cause I don't trust wikipedia. It has a lot of good stuff no doubt but it is easily manipulated too.

@Bold: But you said the 'teaching' from Mary is quite recent. Not exactly as old as Biblical revelations.

Ok about wikipedia but I've being a Catholic from birth, I didn't get my fact from wikipedia.
You can trust wikipedia on that link.

@your second point, Yes. The question i asked is not related to my points.

I asked just because people are always quick to ask us where anything we say is in the bible.

darknez:


Now you give a lot of info all at once. Let me see if I can highlight the main points:

1) We agree not every truth is Biblical.
2) Truths can be found in other sources from the Bible.
3) Christ has only one flock.
4) Christianity existed before the Bible, as we know it in present times
5) The early Christian community relied on the Leadership of the Church for guidance, not on 'books'.

Okies....hope I was able to cover all the points?

Yes you did

Now, apart from 1) and 4) don't you think the other points are problematic?

2) Truths can be found in other sources no doubt. I can find some truths in a very good Mathematics text.

If 1 is taken as a unit and 2 is taken as two units, where 3 is similarly taken as 3 units such that
(1 + 1 = 2), (2 + 1 = 3), and (1 + 2 = 3)...it therefore follows that the operator "+", has a positive effect for which the operands increases by a unit when subsequent operands are added by just one unit.

That bad example up there is true for all time and is taken to be a universal truth, irrespective of any culture, language or creed.

However, the truth I presume you talk about, should also have that element of universality for it to be from God. Since the truths are non biblical, at what point do we draw the line between the truths revealed by the Spirit and those which are made by man?

I am not sure if you see the problem therein?

I honestly don't see the problem, Yes there can only be one truth and yes there are more than one possible sources of truth. The key thing is that the truth from different sources should not contradict each other, If anything they should compliment each other. At what point do you draw the line between the truth revealed by the spirit and those which are man made?
By man made I suppose you mean false teachings.
1) It should not contradict the Bible
2) It should not be contrary to the teachings of the one true church.
Note: The two points listed above can in no way contradict each other, hence whatever information emanates from them can be true

3) Christ has more than one flock. Read up John 10:16. If that is the case, then the issue of leaving the flock is rendered irrelevant because some are already out. Thence the problem I mentioned about having a common bases for knowing revealed truths e.g the Bible remains.

John 10: 15-17
…15just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father. And I lay down My life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason the Father loves Me is that I lay down My life in order to take it up again.…

All I see here is Christ saying he has other sheep that are not yet in his one flock not that he has more than more flock. I believe he was referring to does who were yet to hear his gospel but who upon hearing his gospel will definitely join his flock.

5) The Leadership of the Church? Which Church? What Leadership? The one you follow? The one followed by Anglicans? Methodists? Protestants?

Good question. Read up John 21:15-18. Christ clearly left the care of his sheep to Peter. Also read Matthew 16:17-19. Christ also made some big promises there, giving peter the keys to his kingdom and that the gates of hell shall not prevail over his church. Which means who ever his in his church(his flock) will definitely not go wrong because his church will always have the right leadership to guide them like Christ asked peter to. Now ask yourself, who succeeded Peter and who succeeded the person who succeeded Peter e.t.c There in lies the answer to your question.

lacum:

bro i dont think its about forming societies but making sure d existing ones a still working fine. i am also a legionary n now i hv to make sure d legion is strong first. tks

OK just build your self with the faith God bless u

danke shey

Geist:

Yes you did

I honestly don't see the problem, Yes there can only be one truth and yes there are more than one possible sources of truth. The key thing is that the truth from different sources should not contradict each other, If anything they should compliment each other. At what point do you draw the line between the truth revealed by the spirit and those which are man made?
By man made I suppose you mean false teachings.
1) It should not contradict the Bible
2) It should not be contrary to the teachings of the one true church.
Note: The two points listed above can in no way contradict each other, hence whatever information emanates from them can be true

@Bold: Will come back to that if you did not say anything about this Church you speak of.

Geist:

All I see here is Christ saying he has other sheep that are not yet in his one flock not that he has more than more flock. I believe he was referring to does who were yet to hear his gospel but who upon hearing his gospel will definitely join his flock.

I agree on the one flock thingy but I do not think Jesus was referring to only those who the Gospel is yet to get to. I believe those who he refers to are people who through no fault of theirs, aren't properly disposed to receive the message, though they strive to do what their conscience dictates to them.

Geist:

Good question. Read up John 21:15-18. Christ clearly left the care of his sheep to Peter. Also read Matthew 16:17-19. Christ also made some big promises there, giving peter the keys to his kingdom and that the gates of hell shall not prevail over his church. Which means who ever his in his church(his flock) will definitely not go wrong because his church will always have the right leadership to guide them like Christ asked peter to. Now ask yourself, who succeeded Peter and who succeeded the person who succeeded Peter e.t.c There in lies the answer to your question.

The answer I may come up with following that analogy may, surprisingly to you, not be anywhere near what you have in mind. If you want us to follow a particular line of succession, we may end up asking questions we definitely would not have any answer to.

I am quite sure the line of succession you have in mind, is not particularly supported by Scriptures.

darknez:


@Bold: Will come back to that if you did not say anything about this Church you speak of.


I agree on the one flock thingy but I do not think Jesus was referring to only those who the Gospel is yet to get to. I believe those who he refers to are people who through no fault of theirs, aren't properly disposed to receive the message, though they strive to do what their conscience dictates to them.

still we can both agree christ does have one flock as he rightly said in verse 16 of that passage " there will be one flock and one shepherd"

The answer I may come up with following that analogy may, surprisingly to you, not be anywhere near what you have in mind. If you want us to follow a particular line of succession, we may end up asking questions we definitely would not have any answer to.

I am quite sure the line of succession you have in mind, is not particularly supported by Scriptures.

what kind of questions are you talking about? I have followed that line of succession and I don't think I have half as many unanswered questions as many of these Christian sects have. Am not quite sure what you mean by the bolded. Are you saying you are sure that particular line of succession is against Scriptures are that Scriptures does not support it. Like we both agreed earlier, Scriptures does not have to support it but it should go against the Scriptures. There's a difference between the two. Besides if you followed your history of Christianity properly then you would know that this particular line of succession gave you what you now know as Scriptures.

Geist:
still we can both agree christ does have one flock as he rightly said in verse 16 of that passage " there will be one flock and one shepherd"

what kind of questions are you talking about? I have followed that line of succession and I don't think I have half as many unanswered questions as many of these Christian sects have. Am not quite sure what you mean by the bolded. Are you saying you are sure that particular line of succession is against Scriptures are that Scriptures does not support it. Like we both agreed earlier, Scriptures does not have to support it but it should go against the Scriptures. There's a difference between the two. Besides if you followed your history of Christianity properly then you would know that this particular line of succession gave you what you now know as Scriptures.

I agree to and understand your points.

darknez:


I agree to and understand your points.

Amen

SHALOM!

nuella4real:
Need a catholic man preferably Yoruba 2ADC600B

You want to be saved, do you not?

Seek YAHSHUA first, then worry about the rest, later!

James 3:10 FROM THE SOME MOUTH COME BOTH BLESSING AND CURSE.
WHICH ONE DO YOU CHOSE WITH YOUR MOUTH(TONGUE)

oaroloye:
SHALOM!



You want to be saved, do you not?

Seek YAHSHUA first, then worry about the rest, later!

WHAT THE HECK IS THAT?

Brethren remember your Saints. We dont know how priviledged we are to have them as intercessors. I started a 9day novena to St Rita and it ended yesterday. Today I can feel God moving things already! The saints are wonder workers!! Mama Rita this is me doing what i promised, making you known...Nothing is impossible for God!!!

Novena to St Vincent de Paul.....

Starting today 18th to 26th December.....

Happy Sunday brethren....