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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Questions That Bug Believers In God (3847 Views)
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Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by ooman(m): 6:17pm On Oct 10, 2013 |
striktlymi: you didnt make sense here, death will become the absence of god, so according to your logic, there is evil because god is absent...cool |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 6:45pm On Oct 10, 2013 |
ooman: Why am I not surprised? ooman: Did Energy come from a created place? If Energy cannot come from something created then you have your answer. ooman: Tired of repeating myself. ooman: Tired of repeating myself. ooman: No!!! ooman: Probably! ooman: First of, I didn't say consciousness is exclusive to the brain. Secondly, your questions are 'straws' because they have nothing to do with whether consciousness is from Energy or not. ooman: Because you say so? ooman: Hmmm... No one said what was created can't be turned. No one said God's work cannot be corrupted. ooman: See above for proof. You make comments that are unrelated to my posts. ooman: But you are prepared to take it by faith that Energy is not conscious? Anyways, no one is asking you to take it by faith. There is no way consciousness can come about without a conscious agent. Ask yourself this: can these billion brain cells achieve consciousness without Energy? ooman: I will do that as soon as you give me 'proof' that Energy is not conscious. ooman: Not quite! A conscious agent with the ability to create can determine what it wants to give consciousness to or not. |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 6:50pm On Oct 10, 2013 |
ooman: Yet another straw. |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by macof(m): 6:54pm On Oct 10, 2013 |
joel lala:I've never said pagan supreme God is all loving. No pagan religion attributes ultimate purity, holiness and righteous to their supreme God or gods. God is the source of everything, good and evil. that's why it's important to keep a balance |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 6:56pm On Oct 10, 2013 |
ooman: Brain defect is your proof that souls do not exist? |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by FOLYKAZE(m): 6:58pm On Oct 10, 2013 |
Good job Ooman. Im really enjoying sidewatch... Erm I think before this Energy consciousness can be finalise.....you guys should try to define consciousness, self-conscious and sub-conscious. I think you guys are missing things up. |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by FOLYKAZE(m): 7:00pm On Oct 10, 2013 |
macof: He cant really understand you man. Good job |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 8:46pm On Oct 10, 2013 |
ooman: You do worship them thats why you believe everything the white atheist man says 2 Likes |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by macof(m): 10:19pm On Oct 10, 2013 |
joel lala:ooman this is very true. 1 Like |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 10:35pm On Oct 10, 2013 |
joel lala: |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 10:40pm On Oct 10, 2013 |
joel lala:"atheist",,,... I still can't understand the neccessity of that word cos gods have no proof. I personally think atheists are the normal people, so it religions that should only have names..... Anyway, I am enjoying the debate and I am learning |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by nnofaith: 6:57am On Oct 11, 2013 |
joel lala:you are joking. right? |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by ooman(m): 11:19am On Oct 11, 2013 |
striktlymi: guy, once again, you are confused... You claim energy is conscious, i said its not. I debate for an unconscious energy, you debate for a conscious energy, which is uncreated, yet you claim every other thing must be created, this is where there is conflict. If this conscious energy of yours does not need a creator, then the universe, less complex than this conscious, complex, personal god of yours, does not need a creator too, it an come into existence by natural processes, because its not conscious. Consciousness does not just pop into existence, it requires maximum complexity, selection and arrangement as brought about by evolution. So dont use the definition of energy to define your god, until you can prove energy is conscious, has a personality and a brain. striktlymi: First of, I didn't say consciousness is exclusive to the brain. you directly implied that.. striktlymi: Secondly, your questions are 'straws' because they have nothing to do with whether consciousness is from Energy or not. oh common, dont change your words...what you claimed was that the brain has consciousness because its powered by a conscious energy. This immediately suggests that consciousness is exclusive to the brain, so answer the questions... striktlymi: Because you say so? because you havent provided any!! striktlymi: Hmmm... then your gods works arent perfect or incorruptible.....its good you are beginning to see the weakness in your god. striktlymi: See above for proof. You make comments that are unrelated to my posts. striktlymi: But you are prepared to take it by faith that Energy is not conscious? not by faith, but by observation. Cars does not immediately become conscious when they become filled by energy. Or do they? striktlymi: Anyways, no one is asking you to take it by faith. am not arguing this for now, what am asking is: how then did the first conscious agent come to be? you do realise that the bolded suggest a god for your god, then a god for the god of your god and a god for the god of the god of the god of your god and that goes on ad infinitum....... This is why there cant be gods, because the existence of one immediately makes compulsory the existence of a higher god... striktlymi: Ask yourself this: can these billion brain cells achieve consciousness without Energy? nope, there can be nothing without energy. striktlymi: I will do that as soon as you give me 'proof' that Energy is not conscious. because not everything powered by energy is conscious, that is your proof.... striktlymi: Not quite! and this conscious agent can just pop into existence without another conscious creator right? and that without even a greater conscious creator? and that goes on forever! |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by ooman(m): 11:22am On Oct 11, 2013 |
striktlymi: brain defects are enough to make me understand that there is no spirit bringing about consciousness, because brain defects immediately affects consciousness, except you wanna tell me it doesnt... |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by ooman(m): 11:27am On Oct 11, 2013 |
joel lala: oh pls, i dont believe everything the white man says, i make my own researches, this is why i could free myself from childhood religious ideas in the first place... you on the contrary believe what they say, this is why you cant question the god they made compulsory for you.... |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 12:29pm On Oct 11, 2013 |
ooman: Bros, you make your own researches based on the articles the same white masters have written down..that is why you cant explain the creation of life because they made it compulsory for you not too.. 1 Like |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by ooman(m): 12:51pm On Oct 11, 2013 |
joel lala: oh if its hypothesis that you want about the evolution of life, there is so much of that, but unlike you, i just dont believe everything without proper experimentation... |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 1:30pm On Oct 11, 2013 |
ooman: Experimentation done by the White man right?? ..I hear you. |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 6:06pm On Oct 11, 2013 |
ooman: 1. Their argument against atheism is: nothing comes from nothing, yet they believe a complex conscious god could pop into existence from nothing, and not just that, create everything from nothing.you(believers of God) could also visit this thread in addition to that. |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by ooman(m): 6:10pm On Oct 11, 2013 |
joel lala: there are laboratories in Nigeria right? |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 6:14pm On Oct 11, 2013 |
ooman: lol....the Nigerian doctors that use medicine to beat evolved bacteria are white |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 6:25pm On Oct 11, 2013 |
ooman: Yes there are laboratories in Nigeria but none started the concept of evolution that you so much accept and believe in..unless you can show me one that started it here. |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 6:34pm On Oct 11, 2013 |
Logicboy03: What is this one saying..funny, we are talking about evolution here you are saying another thing.. |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 6:36pm On Oct 11, 2013 |
joel lala: Give up. You cant win against evolution |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 6:43pm On Oct 11, 2013 |
Logicboy03: Desperately protecting your white master's concept just the same way christians and muslims defend theirs..i see a similarity here... |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by ooman(m): 6:55pm On Oct 11, 2013 |
joel lala: mumu... and you think Darwin started it right? evolution pre-existed Darwin, its a universal theory, its the theory of change and change is a universal concept, so be reasonable... |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 7:56pm On Oct 11, 2013 |
ooman: Please show us here who started the theory of evolution and make sure is not another of your white master.. |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by ooman(m): 8:32pm On Oct 11, 2013 |
joel lala: its a uviversal theory, it wasnt started by anyone in particular, but by everyone with a working brain |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 10:29pm On Oct 11, 2013 |
ooman: This your post is actual a dumb post..you say it is a universal theory that wasnt started by anybody right? The theory just started by itself and you want me to believe it..yet if christians/muslim says God wasnt created by anyone, you will be ranting up and down...SMH |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by ooman(m): 6:07am On Oct 12, 2013 |
joel lala: whats wrong with your brain? evolution is not an invention, and its nobody's culture, its a theory of change and so its general to any thinking community... |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 8:41am On Oct 12, 2013 |
Sorry for the delay, I have been very busy. ooman: You still ignore the fundamental questions here... 1) Can Energy be created? 2) Can an 'unconscious agent' give rise to consciousness?? ooman: By definition, it is impossible to conceive nature without Energy. If there is no Energy, there won't be a "natural process". In order words the world cannot just exist without Energy. We have already agreed on the fact that Energy is uncreated, and I posit that to exist is to have Energy. These are not mutually exclusive. Nothing can come into existence if it has not been acted upon by Energy. Hence, my position of an uncreated creator (Energy) is not something we cannot wrap our minds around. The point of our divergence can better be appreciated when we ask the question: Can anything give what he/she/it does not have?? Energy is responsible for consciousness and for it to give consciousness, it must possess that ability. ooman: I agree totally but note that the complexities and arrangements you speak of were brought about by this conscious Energy. ooman: I need to understand what you mean by personality because there is a way one would define it such that it can be attributed to inanimate objects too. @Bold: Are you saying that consciousness is from the brain? ooman: Demonstrate it. ooman: This is what I said: striktlymi: Stop making me repeat myself. It gets tiring. ooman: Yet again, the above does not follow... The fact that one chooses to create something that is 'corruptible' or 'imperfect', does not in anyway imply an inability to create what is perfect. Let me illustrate... China is notorious for producing a number of fake goods but this same China can produce top quality goods. The fact that the Chinese decide to produce these substandard goods does not in any way negate their ability to produce quality goods. Now note that what you tag as imperfect or corruptible can be seen in some other light too. ooman: Now you suggest once again that Energy is of one 'kind'. Let me attempt an explanation... There is one ultimate Energy source from whom all things came to be. This Energy source is conscious and has the ability to determine what it gives life to and what it does not. It's 'creatures' whether they have this gift of life or not, retain some characteristics of this ultimate source of Energy. Top on the list is existence. Once it causes something to exist, that thing cannot just become non-existent. So when you see a vehicle and other objects that are without life, know that the feature lifelessness was deliberately brought about by this conscious Energy. ooman: As I have explained before, this first conscious agent (Energy) is eternal, uncreated and is existence itself. It is its nature to exist. So there is no 'how', 'when' or 'what' etc with it. It just is! ooman: By "conscious agent" I simply mean the source of our consciousness. The above would only be valid if Energy was created. ooman: In other words, Energy is existence from which all things have their existence. Now you are getting it; hopefully. ooman: I did not say: "everything powered by Energy is conscious". ooman: Does Energy have a creator? |
Re: Questions That Bug Believers In God by Nobody: 9:54am On Oct 12, 2013 |
ooman: The exact same thing that is wrong with your own brain..you want me to accept that man evolved from apes whereas that concept cant explain life..but if a christian/muslim says that there is a God and is general to any thinking community you will doubt..nonsense 1 Like |
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