ooman:

oh pls, you are part of those who claim atheism means something came from nothing, so i can ask you the same question, what you thought nothing meant.

That was meant to be sarcastic. The question still remain: What do you mean by "nothing"?

ooman:
really, you believe something pre-existed your god? you are on your part to atheism, to reason, but not yet, i still have a lot of work to do on you.

Go back and read my post again. As far as the above goes, you are yet to understand it.

ooman:
guy, you are saying a conscious being, capable of creating life can just exist himself? Its like saying man can exist himself, without being born. Its not possible. Now, while man can be born, god cannot, so you claim, so he cannot exist. He is too complex to just exist.

You still do not get it. Existence is part of what God is. Man on the other hand cannot exist without existence. I am not sure if you understand this but man cannot cause anything to just exist because it's not part of his nature.

The best man can do is use what has been given or created already. For example, when we say man is capable of creating ideas, what we are saying in effect is that man can use the brain that has been given already to bring about what we call ideas.

The only one who can truly create or better still: cause stuff into existence, is the one who has existence as part of its nature. It is God's nature to exist.

ooman:
the only thing that could just exist, and not have a beginning or end is energy, as proven already. God is conscious, and has personality, he cannot just exist, everything complex has a beginning, he must therefore have a creator, and his creator, a creator. This is why god cannot exist.

Now you are getting somethings, though not everything. Let's review some concepts that arose from your comment above:

1) Energy is eternal, i.e it has no beginning and will have no end.

2) Energy cannot be destroyed. In other words, nothing can destroy or create energy. Simply put: Energy is Omnipotent.

3) Energy is everywhere i.e it is Omniscience.

4) Etc.

The point where we may disagree is that I believe this Energy is Consciousness aka God while you believe it is not.

ooman:
so dont tell me he doesnt interfere. He is only weak when it comes to cubing evil

Your opinion.

ooman:
theistic scientists, they said this is why there can be life in it, they said that is its purpose, So get the point.. Evolution says the universe contains life wherever conditions supports it, and that is the only thing observable.

Nah!

All depends on what you call life. Is a car alive?

ooman:
ok, so somethings were not created by god right? evil for example. what about the devil?

God created Lucifer. He did not create evil.

ooman:
his decision to kill himself, as a sacrifice to himself, only to save us from himself shows an irrational being he is.

Nah!

It shows love.

ooman:
Such an irrational being couldnt have created this great universe and the magnificent life we have.

Funny how you believe something that lacks consciousness created consciousness and you still hold the view that this unconscious thing is rational? Can rationality come from irrationality?

ooman:
common, you believe in a god who created everything by speaking! Only in myths do such happen

Your opinion!

ooman:
what is wrong with your reasoning faculty? There doesnt have to be a creator in nature, because such a creator must also have a creator, and that goes on unstoppable. Nature is observed to be self existent.

Can Energy be created? Show me one item that lacks energy and I will show you one thing that was not created or made.

joel lala:



Yes..i think i have gone through this link before, but it doesnt tell me why man has been evolving but apes, monkeys, baboons etc whom man is suppose to evolve from have suddenly stopped evolving till date..Why do we still see apes in the non- evolving state or did evolution decide to skip them?

ah, you need some education... nothing stops evolving, everything continue to evolve, some more than the others, based on the level of climatic change.

and we didnt evolve from monkeys and baboons, we are all modern apes, we are family genetically.

we are the apes, and we continue to evolve, there is nothing like 'non-evolving'. Change is constant in nature......

ooman:

inference, deduction and coincidence. Besides, deja vu is not predicting the future, its feeling like the past is the present..... are you confused here?

Deja vu is a natural phenomenon that is actually all about the past and if it is coincidence, that means that approximately two-thirds of the world's population that have had déjà vu experiences all experienced a coincidential action right?

ooman:

ah, you need some education... nothing stops evolving, everything continue to evolve, some more than the others, based on the level of climatic change.

and we didnt evolve from monkeys and baboons, we are all modern apes, we are family genetically.

we are the apes, and we continue to evolve, there is nothing like 'non-evolving'. Change is constant in nature......

I never denied the fact that i need education here but according to you we are all modern apes so where did the first acient ape come to existence from? How did it come to existence? that is what i want to know..If i and all human race evolved from an ape, then where did that first ape come/evolve from? that is the aspect where i need the education

joel lala:


Deja vu is a natural phenomenon that is actually all about the past and if it is coincidence, that means that approximately two-thirds of the world's population that have had déjà vu experiences all experienced a coincidential action right?

Olodo, its your claim of predicting the future that I call conincidence... Deja vu is a brain process

joel lala:



Yes..i think i have gone through this link before, but it doesnt tell me why man has been evolving but apes, monkeys, baboons etc whom man is suppose to evolve from have suddenly stopped evolving till date..Why do we still see apes in the non- evolving state or did evolution decide to skip them?

let's not also forget what this thread is all about. (I think the so called believers should be doing the answering here, not the questioning. there are many threads on origin and evolution already, u can pick one of them and learn from it. check amanfrommars reference guide) all these questions u r asking is because you
believe god created everything and not because u want to learn about evolution.(you can correct me if my perceptions r wrong)which brings me back to the ops first question, if it's impossible for anything to come out thin air, where did god come from? from what did he create the universe? don't tell me nothing

ooman:

Olodo, its your claim of predicting the future that I call conincidence... Deja vu is a brain process

Ok..am the olodo here, so please explain this brain process so that i wont be an olodo anymore.

9jadelta: let's not also forget what this thread is all about. (I think the so called believers should be doing the answering here, not the questioning. there are many threads on origin and evolution already, u can pick one of them and learn from it. check amanfrommars reference guide) all these questions u r asking is because you
believe god created everything and not because u want to learn about evolution.(you can correct me if my perceptions r wrong)which brings me back to the ops first question, if it's impossible for anything to come out thin air, where did god come from? from what did he create the universe? don't tell me nothing

We are still on the thread here and ooman raised an interesting topic by asking 'who created God?' ..and since ooman believes that the modern man originated and evolves from apes, then it is not wrong for me to also ask 'where did that first ape or apes that man evolved from come to existence?'

just when i thought this was getting interesting...

striktlymi:

That was meant to be sarcastic. The question still remain: What do you mean by "nothing"?

vacuum, empty. Note that if you claim there was never something like empty, you are automatically accepting something pre-existed your god!

striktlymi: You still do not get it. Existence is part of what God is. Man on the other hand cannot exist without existence. I am not sure if you understand this but man cannot cause anything to just exist because it's not part of his nature.

if only you will expatiate on this, then i will understand, your highness...

striktlymi: The best man can do is use what has been given or created already. For example, when we say man is capable of creating ideas, what we are saying in effect is that man can use the brain that has been given already to bring about what we call ideas.

The only one who can truly create or better still: cause stuff into existence, is the one who has existence as part of its nature. It is God's nature to exist.

is this suppose to be a rational argument for how a complex god can exist? oh pls, this only appeals to emotions, nothing logical here....

striktlymi: Now you are getting somethings, though not everything. Let's review some concepts that arose from your comment above:

1) Energy is eternal, i.e it has no beginning and will have no end.

2) Energy cannot be destroyed. In other words, nothing can destroy or create energy. Simply put: Energy is Omnipotent.

3) Energy is everywhere i.e it is Omniscience.

4) Etc.

The point where we may disagree is that I believe this Energy is Consciousness aka God while you believe it is not.

not until you tell me how energy can arrange itself into a conscious personal god, capable of creating a universe.

striktlymi: Nah!

All depends on what you call life. Is a car alive?

in a sense, yes. but in the conventional no. if life is building up and breaking down at the chemical level, and if this is what cars also do to function, then, we can say they dont think because they are not as complex as us.

but then, to move on, nope, they aint alive.

and whats your point here?

striktlymi: God created Lucifer. He did not create evil.

ok, so there are something god didnt create right? what about the lying spirit in the mouth of the prophets, sent to a king in the old testament, who created that?

striktlymi: Nah!

It shows love.

i killed my self, to pay myself a debt, what a great love..... rubbish!!!

striktlymi: Funny how you believe something that lacks consciousness created consciousness and you still hold the view that this unconscious thing is rational? Can rationality come from irrationality?

calm down with the excitement.... i never said that which you claim.... i said a god who killed himself to pay himself a debt of others is too irrational to create the universe...read, understand, then reply..

striktlymi: Can Energy be created? Show me one item that lacks energy and I will show you one thing that was not created or made.

no.

does your god have energy or is he energy?

joel lala:


Ok..am the olodo here, so please explain this brain process so that i wont be an olodo anymore.

some psychiatrists ascribe it to a mismatching in the brain that causes the brain to mistake the present for the past, the exact cause of this hasnt been pin pointed... research is ongoing on that....

ooman:

some psychiatrists ascribe it to a mismatching in the brain that causes the brain to mistake the present for the past, the exact cause of this hasnt been pin pointed... research is ongoing on that....

I thank you for now admiting that the actual cause has not been pin pointed..Let me tell you something, no matter how science tries, it will be difficult to explain why almost everybody in the world experiences deja vu..definately they will say something like the brain makes a mistake bla bla bla..but one thing i know is that the brain would likely not be able to store information without a past sensory download or intake first and that is a fact.

nnofaith: Hmmm! let me guess. olodumare?

am nt talking only about Yoruba but every other group. there are other religions that have something to say about God, If u dwell only on the Jewish stories, u cant really understand God

joel lala:


We are still on the thread here and ooman raised an interesting topic by asking 'who created God?' ..and since ooman believes that the modern man originated and evolves from apes, then it is not wrong for me to also ask 'where did that first ape or apes that man evolved from come to existence?'

he already gave u valid answers based on evolution. evolution didn't talk about how the first living thing came to being, it only explains what happened and still happening after. for all I know, the first living thing could have existed after the big bang. research is still ongoing.
now, it's my turn to answer my own questions.
from u believers. where did humans/earth/living things come from?

macof: am nt talking only about Yoruba but every other group. there are other religions that have something to say about God, If u dwell only on the Jewish stories, u cant really understand God

i dont dwell on any story.I am atheist.

9jadelta: he already gave u valid answers based on evolution. evolution didn't talk about how the first living thing came to being, it only explains what happened and still happening after. for all I know, the first living thing could have existed after the big bang. research is still ongoing.
now, it's my turn to answer my own questions.
from u believers. where did humans/earth/living things come from?

If this is your response, then the answer to your question have been answered long ago..so i am going to reply you in the exact way/format you gave your own response here by saying, the bible didnt talk about what God came from, it only explains what God created(humans/earth/living things) and what He still plans to do for them..I hope you are satisfied.

joel lala:



I never denied the fact that i need education here but according to you we are all modern apes so where did the first acient ape come to existence from? How did it come to existence? that is what i want to know..If i and all human race evolved from an ape, then where did that first ape come/evolve from? that is the aspect where i need the education

Certain questions actually expose the level of ignorance marauding around as humans.

There is no such thing as a first ape. SMH

joel lala:



I thank you for now admiting that the actual cause has not been pin pointed..Let me tell you something, no matter how science tries, it will be difficult to explain why almost everybody in the world experiences deja vu..definately they will say something like the brain makes a mistake bla bla bla..but one thing i know is that the brain would likely not be able to store information without a past sensory download or intake first and that is a fact.

ok now, so you believe that this life is actually a second life right, that you have once lived before.

Alfa Seltzer:

Certain questions actually expose the level of ignorance marauding around as humans.

There is no such thing as a first ape. SMH

Why do you always talk gibberish ......ooman says man evolved from apes, so definately there must be an ape or group of apes that started the whole process of evolution for man..

ooman:

ok now, so you believe that this life is actually a second life right, that you have once lived before.

As for the bolded, i dont really believe in a second life or whether i have lived before, however, i respect everybody own perception of life..Some people believe in a second life or recannation, some dont, while other people dont care..and i dont really care about it..if there is a second life hurray..if there is no second life, i will still shout hurray..Thats the way i am.

joel lala:


As for the bolded, i dont really believe in a second life or whether i have lived before, however, i respect everybody own perception of life..Some people believe in a second life or recannation, some dont, while other people dont care..and i dont really care about it..if there is a second life hurray..if there is no second life, i will still shout hurray..Thats the way i am.

Ok, how has this long chatter answered any question in the OP?

ooman:

care to expatiate about this god of yours?

-My God is OLODUMARE
-OLODUMARE is the source of all Energy
-OLODUMARE's very existence preserves the whole Universe
-OLODUMARE's energy is present in everything
-Our souls are part of OLODUMARE's essense
-U call say OLODUMARE is pure and living energy that controls the Universe

joel lala:



I never denied the fact that i need education here but according to you we are all modern apes so where did the first acient ape come to existence from? How did it come to existence? that is what i want to know..If i and all human race evolved from an ape, then where did that first ape come/evolve from? that is the aspect where i need the education

There is no such thing as a first ape, evolution is continuous.

I think where this question drives to is the origin of life, and that hasn't been found yet

macof:
-My God is OLODUMARE
-OLODUMARE is the source of all Energy
-OLODUMARE's very existence preserves the whole Universe
-OLODUMARE's energy is present in everything
-Our souls are part of OLODUMARE's essense
-U call say OLODUMARE is pure and living energy that controls the Universe

Just where does your god derive his own energy and who created him...

Don't tell me he's uncreated, that would make me claim I was not born too.

ooman:

Ok, how has this long chatter answered any question in the OP?

You asked a question, and i asked you a question about the evolution you believe in..My major aim here is that as long as you cant give me a definate and satisfactory answer to my own questions, then you have no logical right to say that you want to make christians get the point of the impossibility of the existence of God when actually you have no total proof of your own notion or conception.

nnofaith: i dont dwell on any story.I am atheist.

u meant not believe the Jewish story but u dwell on it. The very essence of this thread is to discuss on the God the Jews/Christians talk about

ooman:

There is no such thing as a first ape, evolution is continuous.

I think where this question drives to is the origin of life, and that hasn't been found yet

If your own understaning of the origin of life hasnt been found yet, is it then right to say that other religious beliefs on the origin of life are wrong? Also, how can you say someone evolved from something without proving where the original source came from?

macof: u meant not believe the Jewish story but u dwell on it. The very essence of this thread is to discuss on the God the Jews/Christians talk about

The essence of this thread is to disprove anything that says that God or a god existed..so your own belief in a god(s) is also involved.

ooman:

Just where does your god derive his own energy and who created him...

Don't tell me he's uncreated, that would make me claim I was not born too.

OLODUMARE has no begining, he has no creator, he has no end.

U know the scientific theory of "ENERY can neither be creator nor destroyed"? am sure u do.
OLODUMARE can neither be created nor destroyed, HE is THE SOURCE, THE VERY FIRST FORM OF ENERGY. your life is being preserved by your soul, which is part of OLODUMARE's essence

joel lala:


You asked a question, and i asked you a question about the evolution you believe in..My major aim here is that as long as you cant give me a definate and satisfactory answer to my own questions, then you have no logical right to say that you want to make christians get the point of the impossibility of the existence of God when actually you have no total proof of your own notion or conception.

Oh pls, there is proof for evolution. Do some reading pls

ooman:

There is no such thing as a first ape, evolution is continuous.

I think where this question drives to is the origin of life, and that hasn't been found yet

It has been found but people like you refuse to believe it.

joel lala:


If your own understaning of the origin of life hasnt been found yet, is it then right to say that other religious beliefs on the origin of life are wrong? Also, how can you say someone evolved from something without proving where the original source came from?

Because religion is subjective, but evolution is objective...

ooman:

Oh pls, there is proof for evolution. Do some reading pls

But there are so many proof for religious beliefs too that atheists will not want to accept, so man chooses the one he/she willingly accepts..

You accept your notion while i accept mine...shikena