Matthew 22:21....Give to Cesar what belongs to Cesar & give to God want belongs to God..... Hmm....why are some of u robbing God because of greed and wrong interpretation of Scriptures.

The Bible isn't a book we have to interprete with our head as some of us as doing here but we need guidance of the Holy Spirit..

Remember... 1day..All of us will give account.of our lives & don't say someone didn't warn you about this..

PAY YOUR TITHE

MarkMiwerds:
Do you feel threatened by Proverbs 22:16?

If not, then how can I have threatened you with it? If you do, then don't blame me. That verse was written centuries before I was even born.

Again, Proverbs 22:16 is a verse of wisdom that is applicable to anyone and everyone. If you give to the rich, you will come to want. If the rich take from the poor, they too, will come to want. Maybe not this side of eternity, but if not, then they will stand wanting when they stand before God.

As to Malachi, we have been over that already. The curse in Malachi was never for the Church. Why shouldn't I criticize pastors who intimidate their congregations with the threat of Malachi's curse when they clearly take it out of context.

If you can't see that, it is unfortunate.

Am not threatened by Malachi or Proverbs. They are both the wisdom of God. If i quote Malachi 3 to you, would i be threatening you?

if using it out of context to prove I am robbing God and under a curse, then, yes..., you would be threatening.

adeshola1:
Matthew 22:21....Give to Cesar what belongs to Cesar & give to God want belongs to God..... Hmm....why are some of u robbing God because of greed and wrong interpretation of Scriptures.

The Bible isn't a book we have to interprete with our head as some of us as doing here but we need guidance of the Holy Spirit..

Remember... 1day..All of us will give account.of our lives & don't say someone didn't warn you about this..

PAY YOUR TITHE

Jesus was not saying to give God money in Matthew 22:21.

Nor does the Bible instruct us to tithe.

“Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and unto God that which is God’s.” Matthew 22:21

The above statement made by Jesus to the scribes and Pharisees is often taken out of its context and used by pastors and laymen alike, in an attempt to prove that God requires tithe of money from the Church member today.

But, when read in context with the entire discourse, and rightly dividing the Word of Truth, it is easy to see that Jesus was not endorsing a monetary tithe at all.

Matthew 22:15-22 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk. And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men. Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s. When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

The disciples of the Pharisees and Herodians asked Jesus a question concerning tribute paid to Caesar. Jesus’ profound reply is overlooked by many today.

The image and superscription on the tribute money was that of the ruling government… Caesar’s. In our modern language, we would say it thusly, “Pay the government the taxes they require. The money is theirs.”

Jesus also said that those disciples who questioned Him were to give to God that which was God’s. Was He speaking of money when He said, “Render unto God the things that are God’s”? Not at all.In the very first chapter of the Bible, we are told that man was created in God’s image. So, the question arises, “Whose image and superscription is on man?”

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

That’s right… God’s image. And when man places his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ for his Salvation, God’s superscription is upon that man.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Romans 12:1-2 tell us that we are to present our bodies as living sacrifices unto God, holy and acceptable unto Him.

“Render unto God that which is God’s.”

In Matthew 22:15-22, Jesus was not telling the Pharisaical and Herodian disciples to tithe money. He was telling them to yield their own selves, their bodies to the LORD’s service. And Paul echoed that admonition in his epistle to the Romans thirty years later.

God’s image is on us. Let us always be prepared to be yielded to His service.
-- www.boldproclaimer.

MarkMiwerds:
if using it out of context to prove I am robbing God and under a curse, then, yes..., you would be threatening.

Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Image123:


Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

spoken to the sons of Jacob, (v.6) not to you or I. The Storehouse was in the Temple in Jerusalem, not in a Church in Nigeria or America.

MarkMiwerds:
spoken to the sons of Jacob, (v.6) not to you or I. The Storehouse was in the Temple in Jerusalem, not in a Church in Nigeria or America.

i'm speaking it to you. Same excuse can be made for any of the epistles as written to so and so, not you. God's house is not only in Jerusalem.

Image123:


i'm speaking it to you. Same excuse can be made for any of the epistles as written to so and so, not you. God's house is not only in Jerusalem.

If you are speaking Malachi 3:8-10 to me in an attempt to prove I am supposed to be tithing, you are quoting it out of context. It was for the sons of Jacob... not for me.

Quoting if for me doesn't convince me that I am supposed to tithe. Especially since I know verse six says it was for the sons of Jacob.

But it should be clear from the animal sacrifices mentioned that the Levitical system is in question.
Even the most rabid pro-tithers agree that Malachi injunction is to the Levitical tithing regime. They get around this by claiming that they are tithing by 'faith' and not according to the abolished Levitical system. Of course this is a weak argument since the one can also argue that they are circumcising not according to Moses but according to Abraham

Image123:


i'm speaking it to you. Same excuse can be made for any of the epistles as written to so and so, not you. God's house is not only in Jerusalem.

Image123:


i'm speaking it to you. Same excuse can be made for any of the epistles as written to so and so, not you. God's house is not only in Jerusalem.

Because you are " depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain" (1 Timothy 6:5) you are yoked to legalistic tithing because of what you hope to 'get' from it. You are self-deceived, lost all objectivity and have brainwashed yourself into thinking that scripture must be interpreted to fall in line with your 'doctrines', whatever they are.
Who was OT primarily written to?
Who is the NT epistles written to?
Which covenant is any Jew part of today?
Will sticking to the Mosaic law and rejection of Jesus save any Jew today?
Friend, when you think, think rightly, not with a warped mind.
PS:
Like you said it yourself -
"Image123:
Learn to take simple corrections humbly instead of resorting to conjectures and childish 'last say' comments."

Image123:


i don't understand what you're saying.

What am saying is that you should humbly explain to us why christ did not pay nor receive tithes,his followers didn't as well,and early Christians also did not for nearly 1500 years. Were all these people under the curse in Malachi?.Especially those who used to pay and received but stopped after giving their lives to Christ. Please explain in full and clearly.

chysam:


Jesus was being sarcastic about that.Read those verses all over again.
Then take some time out to ponder why christ after telling the hypocrites to do this did not turn to his followers with similar message. Ever heard of Paul who was formerly Saul?.Please tell us why he stopped paying tithes when he became born again.Are you also aware that he regreted working through the OT laws?.Please check your bible to conform. Now you say you take pride in paying tithe,the apostles and everyone who followed christ did not do that.Some of them even wrote the bible.Are you Godlier than them.Did they rob God? Were they under curse? Pease explain

Okay, i have some time today on a computer, some people would be having the hbp, lol. Not sure if i replied this earlier.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

i see no sarcasm whatsoever in the above scripture. Sarcasm means the opposite of what is said and is meant to mock and deride. i look again, no sarcasm. Jesus was speaking to the hearing of ALL in Matthew 23, that is clear enough from the first verse. Anyone who thinks he can get away with the acts of the pharisees as a Nigerian, American or non-jew or non-pharisee is deluded.
How do you conclude that Paul was paying tithes? i do you conclude that he stopped?

MarkMiwerds:
If you are speaking Malachi 3:8-10 to me in an attempt to prove I am supposed to be tithing, you are quoting it out of context. It was for the sons of Jacob... not for me.

Actually, i am impressed. For me, i thought you were past learning, but i rejoice that you have improved. You used to think Malachi 3 was for levites and priests. Now, you have improved greatly to sons of Jacob, i'm happy for you, really.

Quoting if for me doesn't convince me that I am supposed to tithe. Especially since I know verse six says it was for the sons of Jacob.

Using this same line, one ,may say gullibly too that 2Corinthians was for the Corinthians, not for us. So no business with all it says, and you know how much you love it with its cheerful giving quote.
2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

i say this to you and your type.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

vooks:
But it should be clear from the animal sacrifices mentioned that the Levitical system is in question.
Even the most rabid pro-tithers agree that Malachi injunction is to the Levitical tithing regime. They get around this by claiming that they are tithing by 'faith' and not according to the abolished Levitical system. Of course this is a weak argument since the one can also argue that they are circumcising not according to Moses but according to Abraham

It should be clear that you are not following the context of the discussion.

trustman:

Because you are " depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain" (1 Timothy 6:5)

How did you come to this conclusion, or do you just quote scriptures like a random bible verse program/software?

you are yoked to legalistic tithing because of what you hope to 'get' from it. You are self-deceived, lost all objectivity and have brainwashed yourself into thinking that scripture must be interpreted to fall in line with your 'doctrines', whatever they are.

You are deceived to think so of me.

Who was OT primarily written to?
Who is the NT epistles written to?

Me.
Me.

Which covenant is any Jew part of today?

The New Covenant.

Will sticking to the Mosaic law and rejection of Jesus save any Jew today?

i don't think so.

Friend, when you think, think rightly, not with a warped mind.

When you live, live honestly with a pure conscience in the sight of God and men.

PS:
Like you said it yourself -
"Image123:
Learn to take simple corrections humbly instead of resorting to conjectures and childish 'last say' comments."

Where is the simple correction?

chysam:


What am saying is that you should humbly explain to us why christ did not pay nor receive tithes,his followers didn't as well,and early Christians also did not for nearly 1500 years. Were all these people under the curse in Malachi?.Especially those who used to pay and received but stopped after giving their lives to Christ. Please explain in full and clearly.

How or why do you think Christ did not pay tithes?
He received tithes because He is God and tithes and offerings belong to Him. While here on earth, it was the duty of the house of Levi to receive tithes through the temple and law system. Today, tithes can still be given to God's house and we do not need to all go to Jerusalem to get to God's house.
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

How do you conclude that Christ's followers did not give or receive tithes? As far as i know, some levites and priests were Christ's followers and people were still giving tithes and offerings at the temple in Jerusalem during the period of the early church.
Act 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.


how do you know who stopped what? Paul clearly made an old testament vow and offered offerings in the temple, how do you conclude that all of humanity(Christians) for 1500years, NO Christian gave or received the tithe. Are you God or omniscient? Or you have the database on your computer there?

Actually, i am impressed. For me, i thought you were past learning, but i rejoice that you have improved. You used to think Malachi 3 was for levites and priests. Now, you have improved greatly to sons of Jacob, i'm happy for you, really.




Using this same line, one ,may say gullibly too that 2Corinthians was for the Corinthians, not for us. So no business with all it says, and you know how much you love it with its cheerful giving quote.
2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

i say this to you and your type.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Moses said the tithe was to go to the Levites, widows, orphans and stangers in Israel. Moses also said God's holy tithe was agricultural and to be eaten. Are you hearing him? If not, you apparently will not hear the One who rose from the dead.

Your argument using 1 Corinthians would be valid if it weren't for Acts 13.

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

The message to the Church at Corinth is applicable to all Gentiles, as is Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, etc..

Nice try.

Image123:


How or why do you think Christ did not pay tithes?
He received tithes because He is God and tithes and offerings belong to Him. While here on earth, it was the duty of the house of Levi to receive tithes through the temple and law system. Today, tithes can still be given to God's house and we do not need to all go to Jerusalem to get to God's house.
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

How do you conclude that Christ's followers did not give or receive tithes? As far as i know, some levites and priests were Christ's followers and people were still giving tithes and offerings at the temple in Jerusalem during the period of the early church.
Act 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.


how do you know who stopped what? Paul clearly made an old testament vow and offered offerings in the temple, how do you conclude that all of humanity(Christians) for 1500years, NO Christian gave or received the tithe. Are you God or omniscient? Or you have the database on your computer there?

Care to explain how did Jesus Christ received or paid tithe since he's not from the tribe of Levi and subsequently he's not a farmer or a landowner?

MarkMiwerds:
Moses said the tithe was to go to the Levites, widows, orphans and stangers in Israel. Moses also said God's holy tithe was agricultural and to be eaten. Are you hearing him? If not, you apparently will not hear the One who rose from the dead.

Your argument using 1 Corinthians would be valid if it weren't for Acts 13.

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

The message to the Church at Corinth is applicable to all Gentiles, as is Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, etc..

Nice try.

Moses also said Genesis 14 remember?
Oh so, we can go to Acts 13 to defend 2Corinthians? Good of you.
Psa 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Deu 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
Psa 147:20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.
Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

All for Malachi

feedthenation:


Care to explain how did Jesus Christ received or paid tithe since he's not from the tribe of Levi and subsequently he's not a farmer or a landowner?

Jesus received tithe as God. Will a man rob God? Care to explain what stops Jesus from tithing if a scribe could tithe?

Valid questions
If Jesus followers paid tithes, it MUST have been to the Levites as these were the only people mandated to collect it. And the tithers MUST have been Jews in keeping with elements of Moses among others Sabbath, visiting the temple,Feasts and so forth.

What is clear is at not point in early church history did Christians pay tithes to anybody either to support ministry or for charity. There is ample evidence of both their supporting ministry and charity so this is no argument from silence by any mean. This makes tithing a late tradition and as such questionable if for nothing else

I recommend this link for a brief history of tithing;
http://slaveoftheword..com/2013/05/tithing-and-church-history-response-to.html
Before you crucify me for stepping outside scriptures please understand my point; tithing practice was adopted hundreds of years after Pentecost which supports the Biblical silence over the same.

Does it bother you that such a practice with all the supposed immense benefits was never revealed to the apostles and the early church? They had the OT and Jesus injunction to the Pharisees not to mention Hebrews and Melchizedek yet the apostles and the Church Fathers stuck to Pauline formula of free will. Do you believe Holy Spirit deemed it not fit to reveal this to them?

Image123:

How do you conclude that Christ's followers did not give or receive tithes? As far as i know, some levites and priests were Christ's followers and people were still giving tithes and offerings at the temple in Jerusalem during the period of the early church.
Act 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.


how do you know who stopped what? Paul clearly made an old testament vow and offered offerings in the temple, how do you conclude that all of humanity(Christians) for 1500years, NO Christian gave or received the tithe. Are you God or omniscient? Or you have the database on your computer there?

vooks:
Valid questions
If Jesus followers paid tithes, it MUST have been to the Levites as these were the only people mandated to collect it. And the tithers MUST have been Jews in keeping with elements of Moses among others Sabbath, visiting the temple,Feasts and so forth.

What is clear is at not point in early church history did Christians pay tithes to anybody either to support ministry or for charity. There is ample evidence of both their supporting ministry and charity so this is no argument from silence by any mean. This makes tithing a late tradition and as such questionable if for nothing else

I recommend this link for a brief history of tithing;
http://slaveoftheword..com/2013/05/tithing-and-church-history-response-to.html
Before you crucify me for stepping outside scriptures please understand my point; tithing practice was adopted hundreds of years after Pentecost which supports the Biblical silence over the same.

Does it bother you that such a practice with all the supposed immense benefits was never revealed to the apostles and the early church? They had the OT and Jesus injunction to the Pharisees not to mention Hebrews and Melchizedek yet the apostles and the Church Fathers stuck to Pauline formula of free will. Do you believe Holy Spirit deemed it not fit to reveal this to them?

Anybody can decide what he wants to do with his income. That Jerome or Luke does not write about it doesn't mean it DID NOT happen. It was said that someone usually gave 90% of his money to church, well that was said. What about others that were not said? What is so impossible about someone giving a tenth to levites and another tenth to the church. Didn't people give much more, even in the early church? If people are giving sacrificially, and selling their possessions, and giving graciously and in abundance of their joy and their deep poverty. Why then go to kindergaten to teach the persons about giving 10%? Why would i enter a JAMB class or WAEC class and insist on teaching them the times-table? Is it not taken for granted that they know much more than the 2 times-table? What practice was never revealed to the apostles and the early church? Do you have a copy of all their sermon outlines with you? Do you hear of John or Thomas teaching about the Holy Communion? Does it mean they(in particular) never taught it? Is it not implied in Jesus words to Teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. Wasn't Jesus clearly speaking to the multitudes and HIS disciples in Matthew 23v1? Would the multitudes and disciples be scot-free if they behaved like the pharisees(if Jesus wasn't talking to them)? Wasn't Jesus talking to a pharisee when He said to be born again, or to render to God the things that are God's?

Image123:


Anybody can decide what he wants to do with his income. That Jerome or Luke does not write about it doesn't mean it DID NOT happen. It was said that someone usually gave 90% of his money to church, well that was said. What about others that were not said? What is so impossible about someone giving a tenth to levites and another tenth to the church. Didn't people give much more, even in the early church? If people are giving sacrificially, and selling their possessions, and giving graciously and in abundance of their joy and their deep poverty. Why then go to kindergaten to teach the persons about giving 10%? Why would i enter a JAMB class or WAEC class and insist on teaching them the times-table? Is it not taken for granted that they know much more than the 2 times-table? What practice was never revealed to the apostles and the early church? Do you have a copy of all their sermon outlines with you? Do you hear of John or Thomas teaching about the Holy Communion? Does it mean they(in particular) never taught it? Is it not implied in Jesus words to Teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. Wasn't Jesus clearly speaking to the multitudes and HIS disciples in Matthew 23v1? Would the multitudes and disciples be scot-free if they behaved like the pharisees(if Jesus wasn't talking to them)? Wasn't Jesus talking to a pharisee when He said to be born again, or to render to God the things that are God's?

So because we do not have copies of ALL the sermon outlines of John & Thomas you can begin to fabricate a theory that they taught tithing?

So because, like you said, "That Jerome or Luke does not write about it doesn't mean it DID NOT happen." then you can invent the theory that the early Christians paid tithe?

It is clear that the revealed Word doesn't mean much to you. This is truly unfortunate. 

The book of Acts covered decades of the church life. If tithing were as 'serious' as some of you are making it out to be, why is it CONSPICUOUSLY absent in this book? 
How is it that even the CLEAR directive to the church that the Mosaic Law is not binding on the Christian is even ignored or disregarded by you guys?
How come the EPISTLES that give the blueprint for the Christian way of life also miss out on tithing? 

That today's Christian would rather go back to the prescribed way of life for Israel to define his spiritual life shows the extent of degeneration the church has plunged into. 
That the freedom we are to enjoy in Christ has been largely eroded by you LEGALISTS shows how evil you guys really are. 

trustman:
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So because we do not have copies of ALL the sermon outlines of John & Thomas you can begin to fabricate a theory that they taught tithing?

You speak without much sense of pedigree. Hopefully, that's not the way you read and comprehend, at least not in real life.
Do you have copies of ALL the sermon outlines of John & Thomas as to assert that they did not teach about the Holy Communion? My questions are not rheotorical, they can be answered in a straight and plain manner. Why do you assert without proof that the apostles and early christians NEVER taught tithing?

So because, like you said, "That Jerome or Luke does not write about it doesn't mean it DID NOT happen." then you can invent the theory that the early Christians paid tithe?

It is not an invented theory, it is a very probable thing that some early christians gave tithes. i have given reasons why already, you can go and read it. It was just a few hours ago on this thread.

It is clear that the revealed Word doesn't mean much to you. This is truly unfortunate. 

You hardly see anything clearly, the little that i've known of you on NL.

The book of Acts covered decades of the church life. If tithing were as 'serious' as some of you are making it out to be, why is it CONSPICUOUSLY absent in this book? 
How is it that even the CLEAR directive to the church that the Mosaic Law is not binding on the Christian is even ignored or disregarded by you guys?
How come the EPISTLES that give the blueprint for the Christian way of life also miss out on tithing? 

Tithing is not serious, quote and unquote. how many times do i have to say that already? Even today, i still compared it to kindergaten. It is you and your cohorts that take tithing so serious and fearfully gnash your teeth at the possibility of parting with up to 10% of your income. There were more important and weightier matters of the law, like judgement, faith and mercy. There is no need to be mentioning tithe in every book of the Bible like it is some serious matter. your friend winx thinks so great of tithing that he thinks it a damnable heresy. That is, those that tithe are liable to damnable heresy, they may be damned on judgement day. Tithing is not as serious as having a calling or ministry of making people see the night that they should not tithe. It is not worth all that. The hypocrisy of the average antitither.
Also, have you seen Matthew 233v23 lately? i will show you, don't worry.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Jesus said judgment, mercy, and faith are the weightier matters of the law. Are they binding on the christian? Can we have faith, or we can decide not to? Is it okay to be merciless as this is a weighty matter of the law. Perhaps, you have also disregarded the CLEAR directive, who knows.

That today's Christian would rather go back to the prescribed way of life for Israel to define his spiritual life shows the extent of degeneration the church has plunged into. 
That the freedom we are to enjoy in Christ has been largely eroded by you LEGALISTS shows how evil you guys really are. 

Degeneration? Do you even know the meaning of degeneration? Who has hindered you from enjoying freedom? Gnoni?.
What is so evil about me giving God my money. Like Pilate asked, Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him. i take my own money that God has given me, and determine to give God 10% of it consistently. And you decide to call me all sort of names, and demand that i explain why i do what i do. Lemme leave you with this question from the Master Himself. Answer it, and get offfffffffff our backs for good.
Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

.

If anyone can decide what to do with the money, they would be following Paul's principle of giving as you purpose and certainly nobody should look down on those stuck with a fixed 10% or 5% or whatever they decide on. And this is the whole point, there is NO law on what and when to give

There also is no record of human sacrifices both in the NT nor in church history. If a sect decided to offer them since we lack ALL first century sermons, would they be justified? We have ENOUGH history both in the scriptures and outside of the first few hundreds of years on giving to conclude that tithing was never practiced at all and that gibing was along free will basis. You can't IGNORE all the evidence and rely on your fertile imagination to fill the gaps

About Matthew 23, Jesus was born UNDER the Law and that's why he kept the Law and he instructed the Jews to keep the Law. This point has been hammered so many times I don't understand why you insist on it. He instructed an ex-leper to offer sacrifices according to the Law. Nobody today offers animal sacrifices after they have been healed

Jesus also told one man to sell EVERYTHING he had and follow him. Do you practice or teach this? Not everything Jesus said is for the Christian or anybody who reads them, and there is a very simple test of confirming what's meant for you or not, it is not arbitrally

Image123:


Anybody can decide what he wants to do with his income. That Jerome or Luke does not write about it doesn't mean it DID NOT happen. It was said that someone usually gave 90% of his money to church, well that was said. What about others that were not said? What is so impossible about someone giving a tenth to levites and another tenth to the church. Didn't people give much more, even in the early church? If people are giving sacrificially, and selling their possessions, and giving graciously and in abundance of their joy and their deep poverty. Why then go to kindergaten to teach the persons about giving 10%? Why would i enter a JAMB class or WAEC class and insist on teaching them the times-table? Is it not taken for granted that they know much more than the 2 times-table? What practice was never revealed to the apostles and the early church? Do you have a copy of all their sermon outlines with you? Do you hear of John or Thomas teaching about the Holy Communion? Does it mean they(in particular) never taught it? Is it not implied in Jesus words to Teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. Wasn't Jesus clearly speaking to the multitudes and HIS disciples in Matthew 23v1? Would the multitudes and disciples be scot-free if they behaved like the pharisees(if Jesus wasn't talking to them)? Wasn't Jesus talking to a pharisee when He said to be born again, or to render to God the things that are God's?

vooks:
If anyone can decide what to do with the money, they would be following Paul's principle of giving as you purpose and certainly nobody should look down on those stuck with a fixed 10% or 5% or whatever they decide on. And this is the whole point, there is NO law on what and when to give

There also is no record of human sacrifices both in the NT nor in church history. If a sect decided to offer them since we lack ALL first century sermons, would they be justified? We have ENOUGH history both in the scriptures and outside of the first few hundreds of years on giving to conclude that tithing was never practiced at all and that gibing was along free will basis. You can't IGNORE all the evidence and rely on your fertile imagination to fill the gaps

About Matthew 23, Jesus was born UNDER the Law and that's why he kept the Law and he instructed the Jews to keep the Law. This point has been hammered so many times I don't understand why you insist on it. He instructed an ex-leper to offer sacrifices according to the Law. Nobody today offers animal sacrifices after they have been healed

Jesus also told one man to sell EVERYTHING he had and follow him. Do you practice or teach this? Not everything Jesus said is for the Christian or anybody who reads them, and there is a very simple test of confirming what's meant for you or not, it is not arbitrally

concerning the man who was told to sell everything, it is important to notice that Jesus did not tell him to give ten percent of the money... No, He told him to give it all to the poor.

The pro-tithe crowd can't explain that one away.

Image123:


You speak without much sense of pedigree. Hopefully, that's not the way you read and comprehend, at least not in real life.
Do you have copies of ALL the sermon outlines of John & Thomas as to assert that they did not teach about the Holy Communion? My questions are not rheotorical, they can be answered in a straight and plain manner. Why do you assert without proof that the apostles and early christians NEVER taught tithing?


It is not an invented theory, it is a very probable thing that some early christians gave tithes. i have given reasons why already, you can go and read it. It was just a few hours ago on this thread.



You hardly see anything clearly, the little that i've known of you on NL.



Tithing is not serious, quote and unquote. how many times do i have to say that already? Even today, i still compared it to kindergaten. It is you and your cohorts that take tithing so serious and fearfully gnash your teeth at the possibility of parting with up to 10% of your income. There were more important and weightier matters of the law, like judgement, faith and mercy. There is no need to be mentioning tithe in every book of the Bible like it is some serious matter. your friend winx thinks so great of tithing that he thinks it a damnable heresy. That is, those that tithe are liable to damnable heresy, they may be damned on judgement day. Tithing is not as serious as having a calling or ministry of making people see the night that they should not tithe. It is not worth all that. The hypocrisy of the average antitither.
Also, have you seen Matthew 233v23 lately? i will show you, don't worry.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Jesus said judgment, mercy, and faith are the weightier matters of the law. Are they binding on the christian? Can we have faith, or we can decide not to? Is it okay to be merciless as this is a weighty matter of the law. Perhaps, you have also disregarded the CLEAR directive, who knows.





Degeneration? Do you even know the meaning of degeneration? Who has hindered you from enjoying freedom? Gnoni?.
What is so evil about me giving God my money. Like Pilate asked, Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him. i take my own money that God has given me, and determine to give God 10% of it consistently. And you decide to call me all sort of names, and demand that i explain why i do what i do. Lemme leave you with this question from the Master Himself. Answer it, and get offfffffffff our backs for good.
Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

Image123
Others have largely answered you on issues raised in your post so there's no need to repeat what they've said. 

Like most, if not all, of us on my side of the divide have made clear, we are not against any Christian deciding how to give. What we are against (and is EVIL) is the lie that the Christian today IS STILL MANDATED to tithe. 

(Like is common with you guys, you just took the word 'evil' from my write up, looked for a passage where it appeared and then use that to talk. Biblical interpretation doesn't work like that)

The Christian is FREE to choose how to give. That is the liberty into which Christ has put us. Those who claim tithing is mandated and threaten the Christian with hell are PUTTING A YOKE OF BONDAGE on Christians. That is evil. 
Those who MONITOR the individual believer's giving fall into the same category. That is LEGALISM. 

Look at what Peter told Ananias in Acts 5:
"While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."
Obviously this was a clear opportunity for Peter to have talked about tithing. How come he missed it out?

So, again, what we are against IS NOT giving by the Christian. What we are against is the yoke of bondage put on believers by leaders who should know better. 

The Monetary Tithe was never a Church doctrine

trustman:
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So because we do not have copies of ALL the sermon outlines of John & Thomas you can begin to fabricate a theory that they taught tithing?
So because, like you said, "That Jerome or Luke does not write about it doesn't mean it DID NOT happen." then you can invent the theory that the early Christians paid tithe?
It is clear that the revealed Word doesn't mean much to you. This is truly unfortunate. 

Image123 is using version of the bible written by his pastor with input from image123 himself. This version contains evidence Jerome & Luke taught tithe.

vooks:
If anyone can decide what to do with the money, they would be following Paul's principle of giving as you purpose and certainly nobody should look down on those stuck with a fixed 10% or 5% or whatever they decide on. And this is the whole point, there is NO law on what and when to give

Rather, nobody should look down on those of us that tithe. That is what all the antitithers here do.

There also is no record of human sacrifices both in the NT nor in church history. If a sect decided to offer them since we lack ALL first century sermons, would they be justified? We have ENOUGH history both in the scriptures and outside of the first few hundreds of years on giving to conclude that tithing was never practiced at all and that gibing was along free will basis. You can't IGNORE all the evidence and rely on your fertile imagination to fill the gaps

The Scripture does not support humans sacrificing humans. There is no evidence whatsoever to conclude that tithing was never practiced at all.

About Matthew 23, Jesus was born UNDER the Law and that's why he kept the Law and he instructed the Jews to keep the Law. This point has been hammered so many times I don't understand why you insist on it. He instructed an ex-leper to offer sacrifices according to the Law. Nobody today offers animal sacrifices after they have been healed

Then you people need to stop asserting that Jesus never tithed. It keeps repeating itself, and when you are logically shown the possibility and Jesus'commendation of the tithe, you resort to the under the law line. If i debunk this again, i know your next line. This cycle has happened too many times already. i sincerely do not know why any knowledgeable person would ASSERT and insist that Jesus never gave tithes, or His disciples. When you assert it, there is no way one would not come up with bible passages like Matthew 23 which show the possibility. On ex-lepers, who told you that nobody today offers animal sacrifices after they have been healed? how do you come to such a claim? How many people have you seen healed, and how do you know what they gave or did not give? You have started again with unfounded assertions.

Jesus also told one man to sell EVERYTHING he had and follow him. Do you practice or teach this? Not everything Jesus said is for the Christian or anybody who reads them, and there is a very simple test of confirming what's meant for you or not, it is not arbitrally

Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

If that is the one thing i lacked, i would practice it. This passage remains a well taught passage today in churches. Of course one needs to understand the passage instead of just brashly brushing it aside with logic.