trustman:


Sacrifices are biblical in the sense that they are in the Bible but are christians still required to offer sacrifices today?
The answer is No. Why not?
Something better has replaced them.
So when you guys use the 'it's biblical' or 'it is by faith' and other excuses to tithe when you try to hide your real intentions you are really being dishonest.
Ask yourself a simple question - "What is the New Covenant all about?"

What replaced sacrifices? Any bible verse that says that?
What replaced tithes? Any bible verse that says that?

...can we say the same thing today like Christ? We dare not dare it today!! lets study the giving pattern of the apostles and the early church.they gave freely even more than tenth.

trustman:


What you need to get clear which apparently you have not got is that giving comes in many forms. 
Unfortunately most of you today think of it ONLY in terms of money - cash.

And where did my post mentioned cash?....if really you are not the dishonest fellow i thought you were, you would have seen where i mentioned other things aside money to vooks in my previous posts? I don't want to go into long verbal exchanges with your typical chocking eisegesis here. I don't have the luxury of that time pls. 

So, Bidam, giving IS NOT ONLY money. 
Giving of money is NOT compulsory for the Christian today. 

Is prayer compulsory? So what do you give in your local assembly? Your shoe,your belt,your wallet or your self or wife?

You must have seen me use the term 'DEFENSE MECHANISM' before now. Maybe I even used it referring to you. You sure have a way of running away from issues.
One way you do this is by being sneaky. It's a major defense mechanism you use all the time.

Very funny and rich coming from a dubious fellow like you. I do not have that luxury for lengthy exchanges..am quite busy of late. You can see my posts are limited of recent unlike you and your co-travellers. I had to sacrifice today to attend to all these mentions.if am not available to reply most of your posts doesn't mean i ran away. Just that duty calls. 

 Maybe you are not really interested in TRUTHFULLY looking at issues. Maybe you're running away from yourself.

Maybe...if that will make you sleep better. You are busy attacking me now rather than talk about Malachi abi? 

For example, you claim you know; you even say the Holy Spirit "teaches me all things interpreting scriptures with scriptures. Unlike you i don't rely on strange websites". Yet when asked to give your position or answer to issues you make statements like 'Go and study yourself'.

It is better folks like you go study more, rather than waste time on websites looking for answers. I am not your teacher, the Holy Spirit is, a good piece of advise that you should take in good faith rather than raising "airs" here.

The next thing you may then do is fly a kite making issues go on in a merry-go-round. You may even then accuse people of being argumentative or just simply bring up any extraneous subject or issue. Perhaps you revel in trying to 'spin' others around in circles. 

Na you sabi! Who is fond of merry go round here? I believe viewers can judge. Evn Jesus did not answer some "foolish questions" asked by the pharisees, the Son of Man went on with his teachings. Paul even says to avoid them. Folks can do best if left unanswered so they can search the truth for themselves.

Bidam,Do you really stand for and desire the truth?

Jesus is truth.We do nothing against the truth but for the truth.DO YOU KNOW THE TRUTH?

Zikkyy:


My question was...."How do you teach voluntary tithing?".......I have no issue with your personal decision to tithe...all am asking is HOW DO YOU TEACH VOLUNTARY TITHING?

I don't. And my local assembly doesn't. It is left to the conviction of the Christian. We do not keep records of tithers in our church, so i don't know who tithes and who does not. But to categorically condemn the tithe is my posture here.

christemmbassey:
BIDAM, BIDAM ok o, i NO dey ready to go round circles with you, but think about dat Hebrews8, BTW, what happened to dat ur child dedication thread? I'M very intrested in it o. Bless u!

Ok bro...you also do likewise. Study to show yourself approved. That thread has been dealt with na...i go still check am to find out..nairaland no dey my head these days jare..we are progressing to other things.

Zikkyy:




"Don’t you know that those who rob God in tithe & offerings are under a curse and that the floodgate of heaven is opened and blessings poured out to those who brings the whole tithe to the storehouse? In the same way, the Lord said that those who refuse to bring their tithe to the church that there might cash in the church account is cursed and those that cooperate and bring all their tithe & offerings without deduction shall be blessed by the Lord".

This is how you use Malachi to teach giving. Can think of any other teaching that will require reference to Malachi 3:8-10?

The teachings of Jesus...quote for me Luke 6:38 using the AMP.

The teachings of Paul quote for me 2 cor 9:6 using the AMP.

Zikkyy:


Do you also burn your offerings? after all it is biblical.

i hope u no longer say ur daily prayers because its biblical and u are against anything dat is biblical.

chysam:

Yes it longer exist for Christians and people who have "GENUININGLY" received christ as their personal Lord and Saviour.The bible confirms this with action. Furthermore,the jews today no longer tithe.So that verse has become mere history and for reference purpose only.

that is to say i shud stop paying tithe abi?

Bidam:

It is a fallacy also on you part to say people should give without having an anticipation for a reward or return whichever way you put it because it goes against clear statements penned down by the one Paul wrote to the philipians and also the malachi scripture you are arguing about.

The Malachi quote was never meant for Christians. Since you refuse to provide the Philipian reference, i want to assume you are referring to the one below...

Philippians 4:16-19 (NIV)
16 for even when I was in Thessalonica, you sent me aid more than once when I was in need. 17 Not that I desire your gifts; what I desire is that more be credited to your account. 18 I have received full payment and have more than enough. I am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent. They are a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God. 19 And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus.

I don't see anything in the above that suggests giving must be based on expected or promised returns.

Bidam:

Paul actually taught givings are based on promised returns. Read your philipians.

Provide chapter/verse

Bidam:

What spirit is urging christians to give?

You are suppose to be one, do you give because of expected returns or you give because of love.

Bidam:

Yes God blessed them, but in what aspect are we talking about here. Pls provide a scripture.

in all aspect.

Bidam:

So in other words the widow of zarephat who ministered to Elijah her last meal was also sourced from satan abi Why are you guys thinking this way sef?

Am not sure you are reading my post. I don't recall saying some peeps sourced their meal from satan.

gebest:
that is to say i shud stop paying tithe abi?

Lol, everything from genesis to revelation is a history book according to these folks.SmH!

Bidam:

You keep confusing and conflating issues here. Some folks may feed off the tithes and offering of their members but to categorically make a generalised blanket statement that ALL church givings in the body of Christ WOLRDWIDE is done that way is WRONG!

If you are not guity, you don't have any problem.

Bidam:

but to categorically make a generalised blanket statement that ALL church givings in the body of Christ WOLRDWIDE is done that way is WRONG!

I said this where? when? You know this a lie.

Bidam:

Moreso, the same Paul told folks who are ever parasitical not to be lazy abi dat wan no dey ur bible again?

This is a different matter.

Bidam:
i mentioned givings that are done with the expectation of a reward . Or do you want me to quote those scriptures to you again..?na wa for this kind reasoning sha.

Bottom line: giving in the NT is reciprocal, it is never onesided to start with and that was why i quoted philipians 4:5 to you.

There is nothing in Philipians 4:5 that says giving is reciprocal. maybe in the version printed by ya pastor.

Image123:


auntie me me me. Rubbish.

Since i decided to free you, ya mouth don dey run anyhow

Zikkyy:


The Malachi quote was never meant for Christians. Since you refuse to provide the Philipian reference, i want to assume you are referring to the one below...

Philippians 4:16-19 (NIV)
16 for even when I was in Thessalonica, you sent me aid more than once when I was in need. 17 Not that I desire your gifts; what I desire is that more be credited to your account. 18 I have received full payment and have more than enough. I am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent. They are a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God. 19 And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus.

I don't see anything in the above that suggests giving must be based on expected or promised returns.

A touch of eyesalve is all you need. Paul says they are blessed by God supplying all their needs in this present life and even in the one hereafter BECAUSE they ministered to his needs.

You are suppose to be one, do you give because of expected returns or you give because of love.

Did i manufacture Luke 6:38 in my imagination. A farmer that sows expect a harvest ofcos..same principle applies and still Paul butressed this truth in 2 cor9:6..abeg i don tire with repititions..am done with you on this one except you can provide a valid counter argument.

in all aspect.

WRONG.in the aspect of givings a condition is attached for the christian.

Am not sure you are reading my post. I don't recall saying some peeps sourced their meal from satan.

You did imply peeps sourcing their wealth from satan. Abi no be money again them dey take by food? Haba!

Bidam:

I don't. And my local assembly doesn't. It is left to the conviction of the Christian. We do not keep records of tithers in our church, so i don't know who tithes and who does not.

So you agree with me that tithe should not be preached. why all the initial gra-gra. i don't understand you o.

Zikkyy:


If you are not guity, you don't have any problem.



I said this where? when? You know this a lie.



This is a different matter.

So you agree not all ministers rely on d paltry tithes and offerings of their members for their stupendous wealth abi?

Bidam:
The teachings of Jesus...quote for me Luke 6:38 using the AMP.

The teachings of Paul quote for me 2 cor 9:6 using the AMP.

I don't see the link with Malachi 3:8-10.

My position is that Pastor cannot use Malachi 3 for teaching Christian giving.

Zikkyy:


So you agree with me that tithe should not be preached. why all the initial gra-gra. i don't understand you o.

I said i don't teach it. I never said ministers shouldn't teach givings to their members na did i?

TheShopKeeper:


Yes you're right Jews don't believe in Jesus, because they still held on to some of their laid down laws and tithing is not one of them.
They even paid their tithes during the time of Jesus, so Image123, what has not believing in Jesus got to do with tithing.

Zikkyy:


There is nothing in Philipians 4:5 that says giving is reciprocal. maybe in the version printed by ya pastor.

Funny. Ok...go ahead and give without expecting anything in return...i don tire with this narrowminded argument sef..Have it your way..pheeew.

gebest:

i hope u no longer say ur daily prayers because its biblical and u are against anything dat is biblical.

Jesus taught prayer, just like the Apostles. I don't do it because it biblical, i do it because Christ & the Apostles taught prayer. I don't find teachings on Christian tithing so i don't do it. And let me add that there is nothing wrong with donating a tenth of your income to your church if done with a sincere heart. Why we don't agree is that you rely on mosaic law to justify your tithe practice, clear evidence that you don't know what you are doing or maybe you are greedy, see tithing as a get rich quick scheme, or you are just afraid of the so called devourer.

Zikkyy:


I don't see the link with Malachi 3:8-10.

My position is that Pastor cannot use Malachi 3 for teaching Christian giving.

ofcos you won't...very typical...am not with a lappy for a lengthy discuss abeg...maybe some other time.

Zikkyy:


Jesus taught prayer, just like the Apostles. I don't do it because it biblical, i do it because Christ & the Apostles taught prayer. I don't find teachings on Christian tithing so i don't do it. And let me add that there is nothing wrong with donating a tenth of your income to your church if done with a sincere heart. Why we don't agree is that you rely on mosaic law to justify your tithe practice, clear evidence that you don't know what you are doing or maybe you are greedy, see tithing as a get rich quick scheme, or you are just afraid of the so called devourer.

i dont want to use dis word but let me use it since u started it, i was following u b4 thinking u are responsible now dat i kn u ar nt, let me leave u alone.

Image123:


i don't know, i wonder how you know. What i know is that some tithe preaching and accepting churches have a lot of money and that hurts you despite your not giving them a dime. Your tithe is not missed in heaven or earth.

Proverbs 22:16 (KJV) 16 He that oppresseth the poor to increase his [riches, and] he that giveth to the rich, [shall] surely [come] to want.

Bidam:
Funny. Ok...go ahead and give without expecting anything in return...i don tire with this narrowminded argument sef..Have it your way..pheeew.

You are most definitely not a christian cause if you are truly one, you would know that christians give out of love and not because of expectation of reward.

Bidam:

A touch of eyesalve is all you need. Paul says they are blessed by God supplying all their needs in this present life and even in the one hereafter BECAUSE they ministered to his needs.

He assured them that God will meet all their needs for their generosity. He did not say they should give for the purpose of receiving God's blessing.

"And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus."

The Philippians gave out of love for Paul, not because they wanted God to bless them. Love does not come with conditions.

I rejoiced greatly in the Lord that at last you renewed your concern for me. Indeed, you were concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it.

Bidam:

Did i manufacture Luke 6:38 in my imagination. A farmer that sows expect a harvest ofcos..same principle applies and still Paul butressed this truth in 2 cor9:6..abeg i don tire with repititions..am done with you on this one except you can provide a valid counter argument.

My question was.....do you give because of expected returns or you give because of love?......and you are asking if you are the one that manufactured Luke 6:38

My interpretation of your response is that you have been influenced by what you read in Luke 6:18 to give only when there is expected returns. This is so un-Christ like. Ya pastor get work.

“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you"

The fact that you will be rewarded should not be the basis for the giving.

verse 35..

"But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High"

which is easier? giving with expectation or giving without expecting to get anything back?

Bidam:

WRONG.in the aspect of givings a condition is attached for the christian.

What do you mean by "Wrong"? are you saying the Philipians were not blessed in the area of giving?

Bidam:

You did imply peeps sourcing their wealth from satan. Abi no be money again them dey take by food? Haba!

You are not reading my posts o! see the post below. Please take time to read again. Thank you.

Zikkyy:

Maybe you don't understand that God already blessed them even before they gave. You think the gift given to Paul was sourced from blessings received from satan?

gebest:
i dont want to use dis word but let me use it since u started it, i was following u b4 thinking u are responsible now dat i kn u ar nt, let me leave u alone.

Okay.

PastorKun:


You are most definitely not a christian cause if you are truly one, you would know that christians give out of love and not because of expectation of reward.

Lol, quit the snide remarks i am a christian. I never asserted anywhere that christians giving shouldn't be an act of love What i said is clear statement in scripture that giving is reciprocal..whether the folks expect to be rewarded or not is his problem.God clearly said He rewards those who give.

Any idea what Paul gained in giving his life to Christ?

Bidam:
Lol, quit the snide remarks i am a christian. I never asserted anywhere that christians giving shouldn't be an act of love What i said is clear statement in scripture that giving is reciprocal..whether the folks expect to be rewarded or not is his problem.God clearly said He rewards those who give.

Zikkyy:


He assured them that God will meet all their needs for their generosity. He did not say they should give for the purpose of receiving God's blessing.

"And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus."

Haba! Zikkyy why are you this mishievious. Paul actually made them anticipate a "reward" for their gifts. What do you understand by the sweet smell sacrifice acceptable and well pleasing to God Or have you sat down to question how Paul was able to see God smelling the philipians sacrifices?

The Philippians gave out of love for Paul, not because they wanted God to bless them. Love does not come with conditions.

No one is disputing their not giving out of love, my bone of contention here is whether what Paul said never made them to anticipate a reward. The scriptures are written for a reason..i am not a philippian..no one will read that scripture and will not take note of Paul telling the philipians about a reward for their sacrifices. And pls stop being mischievous i never said acts of giving should be dependent on any rewards, all i said was giving as taught in scripture is reciprocal.

Zikkyy:


My question was.....do you give because of expected returns or you give because of love?......and you are asking if you are the one that manufactured Luke 6:38

My interpretation of your response is that you have been influenced by what you read in Luke 6:18 to give only when there is expected returns. This is so un-Christ like. Ya pastor get work.

Zikkyy!! There is more to giving than all these cliches you are vomiting here. It is not only about "love driven" or whatever..pls study ya bible well well.

“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you"

The fact that you will be rewarded should not be the basis for the giving.

Ok o..i hear you sir!

"But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High"

which is easier? giving with expectation or giving without expecting to get anything back?

Stop reading into the text. The bible says "lend" in that verse and not "give".. There is a clear diff between verse 35 and Luke 6 verse 38. Lend is not the same as give..this is simple english na haba!

What do you mean by "Wrong"? are you saying the Philipians were not blessed in the area of giving?

No that is not what i meant. I mean that God promised that givings will be blessed..its that simple..i wonder whether your comprehesion powers is dwindling abeg.

You are not reading my posts o! see the post below. Please take time to read again. Thank you.

Ok, lets take the widow of zarephat as an example..Did Elijah not make her anticipate a "reward" even before she ministered to him?