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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Travel / Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox (72314 Views)
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Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by OmoTier1(m): 4:00pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
manny4life:Hehe, another ignorant comment! Flaps are retracted because of Drag. What a load of tosh So how come between V1 and V2 when you need the power the most you still have your flaps out which according to you should create more drag thereby slowing down the aircraft? Why are they are retracted just after lift off Chei....I hope you are not flying planes in Nigeria yet and if in the US that you are flying those agricultural planes close to Arizona desert |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by OmoTier1(m): 4:02pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Somorin#1: I think you actually answered yourself by your second point = Gliders have not engines but they are 'PULLED' across. If wings generate lift, why don't the gliders stay still and allow air to flow over them so they can fly Tells you that the general misconception of the mechanics of flight is so flawed because have refused to think we their heads |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by Nobody: 4:03pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: He's right about test Pilots are Engineers. http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2005/june/ts_sf03.html |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by OmoTier1(m): 4:07pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Somorin#1: In fact, We have already starting looking into Automated synchronized flight operations as the future because if we have been able to deploy UAVs in Pakistan using bases as far away as the US, or even UK ( as in the case of Afghanistan UAV deployment by our RAF) it means we can and should carry out more research to validate our theories of onboard pilotless commercial flights. We did a demonstration earlier this year with one of the engine OEM ( whom I would not mention here for obvious reasons) and the results have been quite promising. Hopefully, we can stretch the boundary further from just auto pilot at cruise or landing to incldue all regimes of flight Perhaps have base stations with trained flight engineers manning like in USAF or RAF flying these sweet birds we keep designing |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by Nobody: 4:07pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: Conversely, why did the Glider not fall out of the sky the minute it wasn't being pulled anymore? And instead depending on the release altitude and thermal drafts can still climb thousands of feet without stalling? Also goes down in altitude when searching for thermal drafts and then climbs again. All without an engine. I did say that you were both right. |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by manny4life(m): 4:07pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: This is why you should leave flying to those who fly airplanes. So after V2, and you're still climbing, according to the takeoff checklist which you designed, does it call for retracting of flaps or not? I never knew you can have flaps deployed at high speed? |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by manny4life(m): 4:10pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Somorin#1: Haha, they are the expert engineers, I also made a comment about how does an airplane glide without an engine? |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by OmoTier1(m): 4:10pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Somorin#1: Thanks for that link, that would make an interesting reading. I knew so well that major OEMs like boeing, Bombardier, Embraer, and including our own test flight department is manned by engineers with aeronautical degrees and donkey years of engineering and flight test. |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by Nobody: 4:11pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
ikeyman00: @@@@ All you need is for me to teach you basic aerodynamics. Flaps, ailerons, rudders are just there as control surface, and nothing much. The wing is just used as a floatation and stabilizing device. At cruising altitude or during level flight, the wing is used to balance the weight of the aircraft depending on the airspeed. For your information, flaps are used to pitch the aircraft when the aircraft has attained the required take off speed. This is how take-off works: the engine provides all the thrust which accelerate the aircraft forward, the expansion of air as it flow on top of the wing gives rise to change in pressure in direction normal to the wings. However, that the pilot won't deploy the flaps until the aircraft has attained the required take-off speed. Once the speed is attained, the flaps is then deployed at a very high angle upward, typically>30 degrees, which couple with speed will change the AoA. For your information, it's only novice will say the flaps develop lift, No it does not. The expansion happening on the top of the wing, due forward thrust gives rise to lift. The pilot then deploys flaps at the right time to change the direction of the thrust vector; which is why the front gear lift off before the last two gears. Believe me; I'm an Aeronautics and Astronautics Engineer! |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by OmoTier1(m): 4:11pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
manny4life:Didnot realize comprehension was your problem. Did you not read where I said "between V1 AND v2 ?? |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by OmoTier1(m): 4:13pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
manny4life:So you were not clever enough to figure out that the engine Thrust is replaced by the human pull power when you begin the gliding |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by Nobody: 4:16pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: I'm not certain if I'll get on a flight with no one in the cockpit. Things do go wrong. No data but I'm pretty sure that some UAV were lost due to malfunction. I'll settle for modern Cat3 autoland with two guys up front. 1 Like |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by manny4life(m): 4:17pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
donedy: Thanks for vindicating me that Thrust is what provides the power that accelerates the aircraft forward and the airflow on the wings is what gives rise to change in pressure. However, doesn't this contradict to what you "engineers" put out on your manual? Deploying of FULL flaps greater than 30deg and during rake off roll? Thank you for the bold, At least I know I;m no engineer but my instructors where right after all. |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by OmoTier1(m): 4:18pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
donedy: Agreed with much said except the part in bold. Flaps are set before ground roll is initiated and the horizontal stabilizers is used to balanced the aircraft to ensure ground man oeuvre stability take-off run. Like our sweet birds, we generally have three flap settings for take-offs depending on the airport you operate to, the local weather there and your payload in general. Everything else is spot on! |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by manny4life(m): 4:19pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: Did I say you retract flaps during V1 and V2? You seriously need help. I said flaps are retracted at higher speeds, after takeoff and reached a certain level and you're here yarning nonsense I guess you're the one with comprehension problem, go back and read again. |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by OmoTier1(m): 4:20pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Somorin#1:Okay, then be prepared to stop flying The European clean sky project has this as one of its derivatives, ( not actually the core) so the next bird you may see fly in say 2035 onward might actually by remote pilot birds. Have you ever thought of how well the redundancies built into control surfaces over the years has enhanced auto piloting for both landing and cruise? So why should we shall away to exploring the frontiers further? |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by manny4life(m): 4:21pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: Haha, are you running away from the question, According to you, if thrust generates lift, how does an airplane that looses power glide? |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by OmoTier1(m): 4:21pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
manny4life: Hehe, I am not sure you really know what Higher Speed regime is |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by manny4life(m): 4:22pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: Yeah, tell me about it... I guess according to you "higher speed" is between V1 and V2...LOL |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by Nobody: 4:22pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
donedy: I'm completely lost. Are you perhaps confusing flaps with slats? Flaps only extends downwards and it reduces the stall speed. |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by OmoTier1(m): 4:23pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
manny4life: If you do not know, one of the courses you take during your aeronautical degree study involves the power of flight and majorly it talks about how gliding do take place. Anderson's book I gave you the link earlier explains it well. Go and read it, hopefully you will get some understanding on how lift is initiated in a glider. |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by manny4life(m): 4:25pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: Too much long story... Again, you said Thrust generates Lift, and I said OKAY... If that's true, kindly explain how an plane glides when it looses power...Is that too much to ask for? |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by Nobody: 4:25pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: In 2035 I should be retired by then so won't be in any rush to get anywhere and can enjoy travelling by ships. Regardless of redundancies, I personally will still prefer someone up front. Even more critical than passenger flights, I know we routinely send unmanned spacecrafts to the ISS so the technology has always been there. |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by OmoTier1(m): 4:28pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
manny4life: You deploy flaps to help you augment your speed, i.e. your 30 degree settings mean on certain run and weather conditions, you will require less speed to take off and the 'available' runway. It is not there to generate lift |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by OmoTier1(m): 4:32pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Somorin#1:Lol, grandpa traveling by Shop like Costa Concordia with some long pipe eh? Relax! That is why brains like me were born to make these things happen and make them safe Imagine, years ago, launching a pilotless spacecraft to ISS would be deemed suicidal right? But today, are we not sending cargos to ISS with any man on baord? Our sister company has two modules and more is being designed that would be completely pilotless and with robots that would carry out experimental research |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by manny4life(m): 4:32pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: I never said it generates lift, I've often said it help or yet augments the lift... What I've always said was the air flowing over the wings + the power generated from the thrust pushing the airplane forward with the help of flaps augmenting it generates lift. Please go back to my previous post I was taught lower flaps setting augment (the right term) lift and a higher deployment causes a drag to the airplane, wouldn't that explain why FULL flaps are deployed after landing? |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by OmoTier1(m): 4:34pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
manny4life:Seriously, if you are asking for explanation on how gliders make their flight and you call yourself a pilot, I rest my case! Like I told you, I am not here to argue, rather to buttress the fact of the theoretical physics I know and use as part of my daily routine. |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by Nobody: 4:35pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
manny4life: Believe me; I'm an Aeronautic Engineer. Earlier you said FLAPS generate lift, now you're saying it's the wing after being corrected. The wing is just there for stabilization of the aircraft and inducing change in pressure change normal to the wing. An aircraft can still take off without the little lift coming from the wing. All the pilot need is to reach the required speed and deploy the flaps. The main purpose of wing in commercial aircraft is stabilization. Again at cruising altitude, the pilot can put the thrust in idle to maintain a certain cruising speed. To do this, thrust must be equal to the drag, and the lift; which is proportional to the cruising speed, must be equal to the weight of the aircraft. These are the conditions that give rise to level flight. Believe me, I'm an rocket scientist. Military jet aircraft can do with little or no wing, since all lift comes from the jet engine. Although some used blended wing design, which encompasses the general control surface. |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by manny4life(m): 4:36pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: You keep talking about gliders like GEEZ, I asked a simple question You said, THRUST generates LIFT, I agree... I asked you, if that's the case, kindly explain when an airplane looses power, as an engineer, how does the airplane glide? When does a heavy aircraft turn into a glider? |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by Slipknot(m): 4:37pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
kaeyame: Was this pilot on a self suicide pact? How can someone ignore such a warning, knowing that there are no pit-stops in the air? |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by OmoTier1(m): 4:38pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
manny4life:Maybe you need to starting thinking for yourself rather than spilling what you were told! Deployment of Flaps during landing is used to induced more drag, as the Drag equation clearly would prove. However, how do you explain aircraft that have landed when the hydraulic actuators on the flap tracks fail to deploy the Flaps? |
Re: Pilots Were Arguing Before Agagu's Plane Crashed - Blackbox by manny4life(m): 4:39pm On Oct 12, 2013 |
donedy: You guys have twisting my words, please pull where I said Flaps generate lift? I've always said, it helps in the lift process. In the bold part, I remembered asking you, if THRUST generated LIFT, how come when an engine is in idle, why does the plane come crashing to the floor |
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