bootlegaz:
My friend bunmi can not say sunlight and calls it chunlight....

The CH sound does not exist in Yoruba. Be quiet

St_Black: Katz & Omonaakoda, PLS lets ignore that troll. Lets put him in d right place like an animal before he derails the whole thing.

Im learning things here . Ejoooo .

Midget, I am just explaining to your lazy brothers why Lagos is investors hub and not because of Hooligans that made up the indigenous population.

0monnakoda:
I m still struggling with that syntax pehaps you could use plainer English . I only guessed at what you mean. If you mean total autonomy are you not talking of a different country?. If a governing entity has total autonomy does that not make it a Sovereign state? . I cannot think of a better example than the United States. It was for this reason that I was careful in asking YOU to DEFINE REGIONALISM . You will find that according to your definition the US is practising Regionalism.
Have you been to Canada or are you just writing based on Wikipedia. I am sure that if we are to talk of "regionalism" there must be several varieties. Rather than getting stuck on words like regionalism which have nebulous meanings let us talk about practical things to do

Oda nigba na ooo.

I have gba kamu. !

. Katz, over to you oo. Pls help me win over this egbon Omonakooda.

CHEIII. ..but you argue like people from my state (Ekiti) sha. ...anyway , just joking.

@topic

OK, what means of resolution do you then think is feasible that the groups can reach to as compromise WITHOUT resorting to war?

bootlegaz:
Midget, I am just explaining to your lazy brothers why Lagos is investors hub and not because of Hooligans that made up the indigenous population.

Lagos is an investor hub because of nature and the people, they have provided an environment for those who are willing to do legitimate business to do so and reap the fruits of their labor, the Western government played a big role in this by the establishment of the industrial estate, the people are welcoming and have a positive attitude, you guys can try to replicate the same in the East, it will not detract from the progress of Lagos and the SW, live and let live.

CLARK Is right about PA AWOLOWO. Indeed he is a great man. (the best president Nigeria never had)

St_Black:

Oda nigba na ooo.

I have gba kamu. !

. Katz, over to you oo. Pls help me win over this egbon Omonakooda.

CHEIII. ..but you argue like people from my state (Ekiti) sha. ...anyway , just joking.

@topic

OK, what means of resolution do you then think is feasible that the groups can reach to as compromise WITHOUT resorting to war?

Ok, let me try but that egbon has a good grasp of English and can easily find you out.

Federalism is a system of Government in which several states/regions/provinces are held together by a covenant. Each part has its own laws, revenues, etc. For instance each part has its own police, government, laws which are exclusive of laws enacted in other parts. Canada and the US both practice Federalism by way of independent provinces and states respectively. For instance, each province or state in the US has its own Road laws and issue driver's licence. Contrast that with the UK that has a unitary form of government.

Regionalism on the other hand is a political ideology or movement. Its followers are bound by a common theme usually ethnic. They advocate for looser central government in favour of stronger regional power. For instance, St Black and Katsumoto are regionalists because they want lesser powers for the FG and a stronger Western/Odua region. Regionalists can also argue for independence/sovereignty and can also be found in countries that practice Federalism. For instance, there are regionalists in Quebec.

So while egbon omonnkoda believes that Nigeria is practicing federalism, you on otherhand are arguing still for a looser FG and more autonomy for the Odua region. Even in a country with federalism, regionalists can still argue for more autonomy for their regions/states/provinces.

Does this help?

0monnakoda: If the objective is to distract my attention by rudeness you have failed.There really is no prospect of intellectual commerce between us so let us ignore each other ok. I don't think the stone age has ended in your neck of the woods

I am sorry I'm not trying to distract you , but a lot of your arguments are self opinionated like explaining away the 1966 Igbo coup. Your argument focuses on resource control ( to you meaning oil) while you enjoy the resources of the rest of the country - estates in Abuja and huge farmlands in mambilla and market stores in lagos and airlines across Nigeria. You cannot eat your cake and have it my friend. If you achieve the kind of "resource control " you are talking about you might as well come to the new country you left with a visa to spend your petrodollar as you like. You will then compete with other foreigners - Chinese, Germans and Indians for farmlands , estates and the market in General. That is the way forward.we can put a foreigners tax to encourage competition. Believe me I want you to have your own country. Before I forget , I really didn't see any intellectual prowess in your moans and groans yet.

Katsumoto:

Ok, let me try but that egbon has a good grasp of English and can easily find you out.

Federalism is a system of Government in which several states/regions/provinces are held together by a covenant. Each part has its own laws, revenues, etc. For instance each part has its own police, government, laws which are exclusive of laws enacted in other parts. Canada and the US both practice Federalism by way of independent provinces and states respectively. For instance, each province or state in the US has its own Road laws and issue driver's licence. Contrast that with the UK that has a unitary form of government.

Regionalism on the other hand is a political ideology or movement. Its followers are bound by a common theme usually ethnic. They advocate for looser central government in favour of stronger regional power. For instance, St Black and Katsumoto are regionalists because they want lesser powers for the FG and a stronger Western/Odua region. Regionalists can also argue for independence/sovereignty and can also be found in countries that practice Federalism. For instance, there are regionalists in Quebec.

So while egbon omonnkoda believes that Nigeria is practicing federalism, you on otherhand are arguing still for a looser FG and more autonomy for the Odua region. Even in a country with federalism, regionalists can still argue for more autonomy for their regions/states/provinces.

Does this help?

On point !

The bolded is what I'v tried making more clearer in my point to help convince Omonaakoda as regards the issue of regionalism.

But with this, Im still not sure he will agree ........

Or watcha say Omonaakoda?

Katsumoto:

Ok, let me try but that egbon has a good grasp of English and can easily find you out.

Federalism is a system of Government in which several states/regions/provinces are held together by a covenant. Each part has its own laws, revenues, etc. For instance each part has its own police, government, laws which are exclusive of laws enacted in other parts. Canada and the US both practice Federalism by way of independent provinces and states respectively. For instance, each province or state in the US has its own Road laws and issue driver's licence. Contrast that with the UK that has a unitary form of government.

Regionalism on the other hand is a political ideology or movement. Its followers are bound by a common theme usually ethnic. They advocate for looser central government in favour of stronger regional power. For instance, St Black and Katsumoto are regionalists because they want lesser powers for the FG and a stronger Western/Odua region. Regionalists can also argue for independence/sovereignty and can also be found in countries that practice Federalism. For instance, there are regionalists in Quebec.

So while egbon omonnkoda believes that Nigeria is practicing federalism, you on otherhand are arguing still for a looser FG and more autonomy for the Odua region. Even in a country with federalism, regionalists can still argue for more autonomy for their regions/states/provinces.

Does this help?

The reason I raise the question of definitions is so we can use them as the basis for discussion. In practice you will find that no two countries practice exactly the same thing and just like with goats there are many types; short,tall, brown black hairy etc but there is a certain hircine quality,goatiness if you like ,that makes a goat a goat and not a sheep. Is there such a thing with "regionalism" ?? I do not know.
Let us examine this idea that the UK is unitary. There is a Scottish Parliament ,a Scottish Criminal law system and many other devolved powers. There is a Mayor of London again with considerable autonomy and so one may argue that indeed there is a hybrid of unitarism and regionalism in the UK eg University tuition is free for Scottish students but not for English ones but it certainly is a more Unitary Sytem that the US.

In Nigeria in theory we are practising regionalism although there are many instances of authoritarianism by the centre. Often these are by way of UNCONSTITUTIONAL actions. The coercive impeachment of Alamiesiegha,Ladoja,the withholding of LG funds for Lagos. The support for OGD and minority legislators in Rivers State are further examples. Is this a case of having a Unitary constitution or something else. In my view even when we had a parliamentary Regional system thee constitutional breaches occurred leading to the 1966 coup. So I think there is need also to look at our institutions and the practical operation of checks and balances. Look at the situation with Arunma Oteh, that is a situation that should have beeen resolved by a credible impeachment threat to the President . Why is that threat not evoked. These are cultural and "operational" issues peculiar to the Nigerian situation and nothing to do with regionalism etc. The National Assembly sadly does not work because it does not operate in the "national interest"

If we are talking of a looser regionalism with even greater regional power then we have to be honest and say are we talking about a confederation which is what it sounds like to me. In truth confederation is just a precursor to break-up. I cannot think of any serious Confederation in the world today. Confederation is just a busstop on the road to breaking up.

I suspect there are many in the West who want to breakup and see this as the only peaceful way of doing so a reasonable strategy in my view perhaps the SE too will realise this and see that Biafra may come to pass with patience and planning

nagoma:

I am sorry I'm not trying to distract you , but a lot of your arguments are self opinionated like explaining away the 1966 Igbo coup. Your argument focuses on resource control ( to you meaning oil) while you enjoy the resources of the rest of the country - estates in Abuja and huge farmlands in mamilla and market stores in lagos and airlines across Nigeria. You cannot eat your cake and have it my friend. If you achieve the kind of "resource control " you are talking about you might as well come to the new country you left with a visa to spend your petrodollar as you like. You will then compete with other foreigners - Chinese, Germans and Indians for farmlands , estates and the market in General. That is the way forward.we can put a foreigners tax to encourage competition. Believe me I want you to have your own country. Before I forget , I really didn't see any intellectual prowess in your moans and groans yet.

All your post made considerable sense, save for the gibberish at the bolded.

I thought you are matured enough to express yourself better.... You dont have to spoil everything with the exhibit please.

nagoma:

I am sorry I'm not trying to distract you , but a lot of your arguments are self opinionated like explaining away the 1966 Igbo coup. Your argument focuses on resource control ( to you meaning oil) while you enjoy the resources of the rest of the country - estates in Abuja and huge farmlands in mamilla and market stores in lagos and airlines across Nigeria. You cannot eat your cake and have it my friend. If you achieve the kind of "resource control " you are talking about you might as well come to the new country you left with a visa to spend your petrodollar as you like. You will then compete with other foreigners - Chinese, Germans and Indians for farmlands , estates and the market in General. That is the way forward.we can put a foreigners tax to encourage competition. Believe me I want you to have your own country. Before I forget , I really didn't see any intellectual prowess in your moans and groans yet.

All your ranting is based on your assumption I am from Rivers State . I am not
Actually I am Yoruba we have no petrodollar in my state but want the petrodollar to stay with those who own it we prefer to live on our human resources. I suggest you do the same.

0monnakoda: The reason I raise the question of definitions is so we can use them as the basis for discussion. In practice you will find that no two countries practice exactly the same thing and just like with goats there are many types; short,tall, brown black hairy etc but there is a certain hircine quality,goatiness if you like ,that makes a goat a goat and not a sheep. Is there such a thing with "regionalism" ?? I do not know.
Let us examine this idea that the UK is unitary. There is a Scottish Parliament ,a Scottish Criminal law system and many other devolved powers. There is a Mayor of London again with considerable autonomy and so one may argue that indeed there is a hybrid of unitarism and regionalism in the UK eg University tuition is free for Scottish students but not for English ones but it certainly is a more Unitary Sytem that the US.

In Nigeria in theory we are practising regionalism although there are many instances of authoritarianism by the centre. Often these are by way of UNCONSTITUTIONAL actions. The coercive impeachment of Alamiesiegha,Ladoja,the withholding of LG funds for Lagos. The support for OGD and minority legislators in Rivers State are further examples. Is this a case of having a Unitary constitution or something else. In my view even when we had a parliamentary Regional system thee constitutional breaches occurred leading to the 1966 coup. So I think there is need also to look at our institutions and the practical operation of checks and balances. Look at the situation with Patricia Etteh that is a situation that should have beeen resolved by a credible impeachment threat to the President . Why is that threat no evoked. These are cultural and "operational" issues peculiar to the Nigerian situation and nothing to do with regionalism etc

If we are talking of a looser regionalism with even greater regional power then we have to be honest and say are we talking about a confederation which is what it sounds like to me. In truth confederation is just a precursor to break-up. I cannot think of any serious Confederation in the world today. Confederation is just a busstop on the road to breaking up

What you defined as regionalism is confederationism or federalism and it is practiced in many countries in the world.

I believe the example you gave with regards to the UK may be correct but it can also be argued that there are administrative regions in the UK and Nigeria.

But by and large, there is no federalism in Nigeria. Everything in Nigeria is centralised - Judiciary, Police, revenue distribution, road laws/drivers licence. If you commit an offense in Sokoto, the IG can have you arrested without asking the governor or commissioner of police in Sokoto.

I don't get why you are of the opinion that Nigeria is practicing federalism.

St_Black:

All your post made considerable sense, save for the gibberish at the bolded.
I thought you are matured enough to express yourself better.... You dont have to spoil everything with the exhibit please.

Place it in context please. I was writing a response. Did you say gibberish?

I did not define regionalism
I am using the definition supplied by our able friend
If you wish to provide another definition of regionalism feel free to do so(I don't know book)
Are you saying then federalism is not regionalism ??


Judiciary is not centralized in Nigeria this is not true.
eg Mustapha was tried for murder under Lagos State Laws. When Amnesty was granted to militants the affected state Governors had to sign up too so they are granted amnesty from State prosecution. recently Lagos State won a case at the Supreme court with regard to classifying Hotels I forget the details now so there is some autonomy in our system
Revenue distribution is not centralized though that is arguable SOME REVENUES ARE CENTRALIZED I agree not all

Katsumoto:

What you defined as regionalism is confederationism or federalism and it is practiced in many countries in the world.

I believe the example you gave with regards to the UK may be correct but it can also be argued that there are administrative regions in the UK and Nigeria.

But by and large, there is no federalism in Nigeria. Everything in Nigeria is centralised - Judiciary, Police, revenue distribution, road laws/drivers licence. If you commit an offense in Sokoto, the IG can have you arrested without asking the governor or commissioner of police in Sokoto.

I don't get why you are of the opinion that Nigeria is practicing federalism.

I don't quite get the relevance of the bolded or how or why there should be different road laws or licencing just for the sake of it. That is not really relevant. Several EU countries use the same currency so what?

0monnakoda:
All your ranting is based on your assumption I am from Rivers State . I am not
Actually I am Yoruba we have no petrodollar in my state but want the petrodollar to stay with those who own it we prefer to live on our human resources. I suggest you do the same.

We are on the same page. All to live on their resources. Being in different countries will guarantee that.

0monnakoda: I did not define regionalism
I am using the definition supplied by our able friend
If you wish to provide another definition of regionalism feel free to do so(I don't know book)
Are you saying then federalism is not regionalism ??


Judiciary is not centralized this is not true.
Revenue distribution is not centralized though that is arguable SOME REVENUES ARE CENTRALIZED I agree not all

Ill say No.

Federalism IS not Regionalism. !

0monnakoda: I did not define regionalism
I am using the definition supplied by our able friend
If you wish to provide another definition of regionalism feel free to do so(I don't know book)
Are you saying then federalism is not regionalism ??


Judiciary is not centralized this is not true.
Revenue distribution is not centralized though that is arguable SOME REVENUES ARE CENTRALIZED I agree not all


I don't quite get the relevance of the bolded or how or why there should be different road laws or licencing just for the sake of it. That is not really relevant. Several EU countries use the same currency so what?

Na Na.

PLS dont misunderstand my earlier point:

My whimsical definition of regionalism still agrees with Katz stance as to regionalism been a move, be it under a Confederate or Federal system of government.

0monnakoda: I did not define regionalism
I am using the definition supplied by our able friend
If you wish to provide another definition of regionalism feel free to do so(I don't know book)
Are you saying then federalism is not regionalism ??


Judiciary is not centralized in Nigeria this is not true.
eg Mustapha was tried for murder under Lagos State Laws. When Amnesty was granted to militants the affected state Governors had to sign up too so they are granted amnesty from State prosecution. recently Lagos State won a case at the Supreme court with regard to classifying Hotels I forget the details now so there is some autonomy in our system
Revenue distribution is not centralized though that is arguable SOME REVENUES ARE CENTRALIZED I agree not all


I don't quite get the relevance of the bolded or how or why there should be different road laws or licencing just for the sake of it. That is not really relevant. Several EU countries use the same currency so what?

What courts belong to Lagos State? I am certain that the judiciary is centralized. Does Lagos state have officers that can arrest you and charge you to court?

I am stating that the agitation for more regional autonomy is regionalism. What is usually confused for regionalism is really federalism. Regardless of the definition, what St Black is agitating for is more autonomy for the SW region. We can call it federalism or confederationism.

A state can challenge laws or policies that it wants to. Several states in the US have taken the government to court in the past. That wont make the US a country with a unitary form of government.

What I meant about an IG arresting anyone within Nigeria applies in countries practicing unitarism. A police man in Texas can't go travel to California to arrest anyone without the cooperation and approval of the state of California. That is one of the strongest tests of self-autonomy.

Why hiding posts?

Is omonakonda cursing again?

Please let's enjoy this educating not to mention interesting thread.

Katsumoto:

What courts belong to Lagos State? I am certain that the judiciary is centralized. Does Lagos state have officers that can arrest you and charge you to court?

I am stating that the agitation for more regional autonomy is regionalism. What is usually confused for regionalism is really federalism. Regardless of the definition, what St Black is agitating for is more autonomy for the SW region. We can call it federalism or confederationism.

A state can challenge laws or policies that it wants to. Several states in the US have taken the government to court in the past. That wont make the US a country with a unitary form of government.

What I meant about an IG arresting anyone within Nigeria applies in countries practicing unitarism. A police man in Texas can't go travel to California to arrest anyone without the cooperation and approval of the state of California. That is one of the strongest tests of self-autonomy.

We can debate opinions but there is not much point in arguing facts

Our Judicial system is a federal one . The Penal Code is based at the state level and the prosecution powers for "State" offences reside in the State Attorney general. Nobody climbed any mountain and came down wit Ten Commandements of Regionalism or Ten Commandments of Federalism. There must be fundmental principles. all these details about arrest in one state by police etc are not core features and again that is why I invite you to define the terms.
If you scroll up to how this started. He said Regionalism is the ONLY solution to Nigeria's problem and after much heat we still are dancing around the definition. I tried to post some links but got banned by spambot.

I invite either of you to define regionalism and federalism and show how they are different. My position is based on the definition he provided.According to that definition we have regionalism in Nigeria. If you want to change the definition find I will accept but still there must be a DEFINITION
I have invited you to define hat you mean by regionalism and federalism and you are waffling really.

They are two sides of the same coin and a very good example is India. No two countries are carbon copies of each other and so we cannot conclude that specific practices eg policing are core features.
In other words there are many types of regionalism and just as you point to America others will point to Nigeria as a TYPE of regionalism CocaCola is NOT the only Cola

We might as well say homosexuality or p ornography is part of democracy

Katsumoto:

What you defined as regionalism is confederationism or federalism and it is practiced in many countries in the world.

I believe the example you gave with regards to the UK may be correct but it can also be argued that there are administrative regions in the UK and Nigeria.

But by and large, there is no federalism in Nigeria. Everything in Nigeria is centralised - Judiciary, Police, revenue distribution, road laws/drivers licence. If you commit an offense in Sokoto, the IG can have you arrested without asking the governor or commissioner of police in Sokoto.

I don't get why you are of the opinion that Nigeria is practicing federalism.

Federalism and "confederationism" are but two examples of regionalism. Who is to say more examples cannot be created
We already have our own version of regionalism and what you seem to be advocating is a deepening and widening of this

Katsumoto:

Correct.

If you look at GDP per capita, the top ten is dominated by countries with little or no natural resources.

On its surface, the above appears to be disingenuous. Would you please tell us which countries make-up the top 10. Do these countries have access to vast amount of natural resources by hook or crook? You'll agree with me that having full access to natural resources which a country does not have in its homeland, is as good or even better than having the resources in the homeland - but having the same squandered because of corruption and enslavement by other countries.

More importantly, the top 10 countries you may itemize have populations which are quite insignificant, relatively speaking.

Of a truth, Nigeria is more of a Unitary State than a Federal one. The Legal and Judicial systems are set forth by the central government, just like in France or Germany. For instance, the law degree obtained in Enugu, applies to any other place in Nigeria; the states are constitutionally bared from setting up their own police forces and prison system. Anyone convicted under 'state' laws would still be sentenced to spend time in a federal prison.
In fact, the only real trace of federalism in Nigeria is the existence of state houses of assembly.

In a true federal system/a system in which there is a high degree of federalism; the states have their own court systems, police forces, constitutions etc. The federal security forces do not provide security to the state chief executives or other high ranking state government officials, in contrast to the practice in Nigeria whereby the NPF serve as security officers to the governors and LG chairmen.

CFCfan: Of a truth, Nigeria is more of a Unitary State than a Federal one. The Legal and Judicial systems are set forth by the central government, just like in France or Germany. For instance, the law degree obtained in Enugu, applies to any other place in Nigeria; the states are constitutionally bared from setting up their own police forces and prison system. Anyone convicted under 'state' laws would still be sentenced to spend time in a federal prison.
In fact, the only real trace of federalism in Nigeria is the existence of state houses of assembly.

In a true federal system/a system in which there is a high degree of federalism; the states have their own court systems, police forces, constitutions etc. The federal security forces do not provide security to the state chief executives or other high ranking state government officials, in contrast to the practice in Nigeria whereby the NPF serve as security officers to the governors and LG chairmen.

Thank you

You get it.

ndu_chucks:

On its surface, the above appears to be disingenuous. Would you please tell us which countries make-up the top 10. Do these countries have access to vast amount of natural resources by hook or crook? You'll agree with me that having full access to natural resources which a country does not have in its homeland, is as good or even better than having the resources in the homeland - but having the same squandered because of corruption and enslavement by other countries.

More importantly, the top 10 countries you may itemize have populations which are quite insignificant, relatively speaking.

What access to vast amounts of natural resources do Luxembourg, Austria, Singapore, Switzerland, and Hong Kong have?

CFCfan: Of a truth, Nigeria is more of a Unitary State than a Federal one. The Legal and Judicial systems are set forth by the central government, just like in France or Germany. For instance, the law degree obtained in Enugu, applies to any other place in Nigeria; the states are constitutionally bared from setting up their own police forces and prison system. Anyone convicted under 'state' laws would still be sentenced to spend time in a federal prison.
In fact, the only real trace of federalism in Nigeria is the existence of state houses of assembly.

In a true federal system/a system in which there is a high degree of federalism; the states have their own court systems, police forces, constitutions etc. The federal security forces do not provide security to the state chief executives or other high ranking state government officials, in contrast to the practice in Nigeria whereby the NPF serve as security officers to the governors and LG chairmen.

The legal and judicial system are established by the CONSTITUTION and not by any tier of government. It envisages.; Native and customary law,Sharia law,State penal codes and a Federal appelate system. The phrase "set forth by central government is simply bombastic and meaningless.
Law degrees are not a function of legal and judicial systems per se and are an entirely different subject. In short they are not relevant in determining whether a system is federal

A mobile phone may or may not have a camera,internet access,or other Smartphone functions. What is it that must be present to make a THING a mobile phone
What is it that must be present to constitute federalism. Unfortunately our discussants fail to appreciate the FUNDAMENTAL importance of definitions and so make arguments from EXAMPLE rather than from principle(definition) What is federalism? What is regionalism? without definitions one argues like a novice unfamiliar with the basics of logic . Whether Governors' Security is provided by Boys scouts,Voltron, Eiye or Pyrates Confraternity or Boko Haram is totally irrelevant. Let us start from a definition WHAT IS FEDERALISM?? Just like the mobile phove example what is it that must be present to constitute federalism or regionalism
To say our Federalism is not like so and so's federalism is like saying a thing is not a mobile phone because it has no camera

ngozievergreen: A look at the core Yoruba states reveals the devt stopped at the 80s.
Everything look old fashioned and ancient.
Ppl should be talking about 2013 tnz not what happened in the 70s

. Tell them

Nigeria is a unitary state.

Prof Corruption: Nigeria is a unitary state.

Gbam! Apart from the imposition of state/local govt taxes, and the existence of the houses of assembly, there is little evidence of Federalism in Nigeria.

CFCfan:
Gbam! Apart from the imposition of state/local govt taxes, and the existence of the houses of assembly, there is little evidence of Federalism in Nigeria.

What's even in Nigeria that's not centralized?