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Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark - Politics (9) - Nairaland

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Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by nduchucks: 1:02am On Nov 10, 2013
Katsumoto:

What access to vast amounts of natural resources do Luxembourg, Austria, Singapore, Switzerland, and Hong Kong have?

Just what I thought, you ignored my statement which applies to all the countries you listed. In case you missed the last sentence here it is below:

More importantly, the top 10 countries you may itemize have populations which are quite insignificant, relatively speaking.




Prof Corruption: Nigeria is a unitary state.
Why would anyone even debate the fact that we do not have anything close to true federalism in Nigeria?
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Nobody: 1:04am On Nov 10, 2013
ndu_chucks:

Why would anyone even debate the fact that we do not have anything close to true federalism in Nigeria?


I don't know what's true federalism. What's true federalism? [It's either you are a unitary state or practise federalism)
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Katsumoto: 1:05am On Nov 10, 2013
omonnakoda:
We can debate opinions but there is not much point in arguing facts

Our Judicial system is a federal one . The Penal Code is based at the state level and the prosecution powers for "State" offences reside in the State Attorney general. Nobody climbed any mountain and came down wit Ten Commandements of Regionalism or Ten Commandments of Federalism. There must be fundmental principles. all these details about arrest in one state by police etc are not core features and again that is why I invite you to define the terms.
If you scroll up to how this started. He said Regionalism is the ONLY solution to Nigeria's problem and after much heat we still are dancing around the definition. I tried to post some links but got banned by spambot.

I invite either of you to define regionalism and federalism and show how they are different. My position is based on the definition he provided.According to that definition we have regionalism in Nigeria. If you want to change the definition find I will accept but still there must be a DEFINITION
I have invited you to define hat you mean by regionalism and federalism and you are waffling really.

They are two sides of the same coin and a very good example is India. No two countries are carbon copies of each other and so we cannot conclude that specific practices eg policing are core features.
In other words there are many types of regionalism and just as you point to America others will point to Nigeria as a TYPE of regionalism CocaCola is NOT the only Cola

We might as well say homosexuality or p ornography is part of democracy

What is the name of the court(s) that belong to Lagos State?

As for definition, see below.

In politics, regionalism is a political ideology that focuses on the interests of a particular region or group of regions, whether traditional or formal (political divisions, administrative divisions, country subdivisions or subnational units).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regionalism_%28politics%29

I don't know why you are asking us to show a distinction between regionalism and federalism when I never made a position on that. I was explaining the differences between federalism/regionalism and a unitary form of government.
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by koladebrainiac(m): 1:08am On Nov 10, 2013
the ibos do not recognize how important Youruba in the scheme if things it they realized but still want to take the unfavorably step that they took during the civil war. Though particularly as a yoruba do hate associate with the northern but these is politics and PDP We are saying . Clark is beginning to realize how important yorubas are so he is trying to make a political statement . appeal to our senses and drag us to unfavourable national dialogue. for now in national level Yoruba do not have enough leverage to make good bargain when it comes to national dialogue. as far as politics is involve in Nigeria , If you underate Yoruba it will be at your tribe detriment. I can go to sleep because I know every Yoruba leaders knows what to do to win. even Traitor OBJ can still make decisions that will still favour Yoruba. had it be that Ibos understand the true meaning of Politics Nigeria would have been better . it should be them that should join force to fight PDP and break the nothern power but they think Jonathan is worth it . do not back the wrong horse . learn to change,evolve and adapt to a situation as time comes . even in PDP OBJ still has most power that Yoruba can tap from if We fall from PDP. its just to swing vote to PDp in State election. the only person that sees this logic is that guy from Imo state but he is not strong in APC. if Ngige wins then Igbos would be strong on. both side . Chai fucking simple logic but my Ibo people believe in violence .
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by nduchucks: 1:09am On Nov 10, 2013
Prof Corruption:

I don't know what's true federalism. What's true federalism? [It's either you are a unitary state or practise federalism)

Semantics. I agree with you that we do not have 'federalism/true federalism' in Nigeria. We call the country "Federal Republic of Nigeria" but the name does not fit.

1 Like

Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Katsumoto: 1:11am On Nov 10, 2013
ndu_chucks:

Just what I thought, you ignored my statement which applies to all the countries you listed. In case you missed the last sentence here it is below:

More importantly, the top 10 countries you may itemize have populations which are quite insignificant, relatively speaking.


What does size have to do with this? In any case, it only proves that man isn't able to efficiently administer large countries.
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Nobody: 1:11am On Nov 10, 2013
ndu_chucks:

Semantics. I agree with you that we do not have 'federalism/true federalism' in Nigeria. We call the country "Federal Republic of Nigeria" but the name does not fit.

Sure, it does not fit it. That's why many consider Nigeria a fraud and the present constitution a false document which tells lies about itself.

1 Like

Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by omonnakoda: 1:16am On Nov 10, 2013
Katsumoto:

What is the name of the court(s) that belong to Lagos State?

As for definition, see below.

In politics, regionalism is a political ideology that focuses on the interests of a particular region or group of regions, whether traditional or formal (political divisions, administrative divisions, country subdivisions or subnational units).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regionalism_%28politics%29

I don't know why you are asking us to show a distinction between regionalism and federalism when I never made a position on that. I was explaining the differences between federalism/regionalism and a unitary form of government.
Belong?? Is that a joke

http://www.lagosjudiciary.gov.ng/JIS/index.aspx

The fact that states fail to develop does not mean we are not federal
Lagos State has its Chief Judge who is appointed and paid by the government. Honestly I think I am wasting my time here so I will take a break
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by nduchucks: 1:17am On Nov 10, 2013
Prof Corruption:

Sure, it does not fit it. That's why many consider Nigeria a fraud and the present constitution a false document which tells lies about itself.

That position is too extreme for my liking. We essentially have a hybrid system which does not fit nicely into your unitary or federal system. We have an ongoing constitutional review process in place, so your submissions should be what you provide rather than playa hating.
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Katsumoto: 1:22am On Nov 10, 2013
omonnakoda:
Belong?? Is that a joke

http://www.lagosjudiciary.gov.ng/JIS/index.aspx

The fact that states fail to develop does not mean we are not federal
Lagos State has its Chief Judge who is appointed and paid by the government. Honestly I think I am wasting my time here so I will take a break

Isn't the court in Lagos or any state an extension of the federal judiciary?

How does Lagos state try criminal cases?

2 Likes

Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by nduchucks: 1:30am On Nov 10, 2013
Let me help Omonna by throwing a baboonwrench into the equation - Kats, Is The Sharia court in Lagos an extensionof the federal judiciary?
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Nobody: 1:31am On Nov 10, 2013
ndu_chucks:

That position is too extreme for my liking. We essentially have a hybrid system which doe not fit nicely into your unitary or federal system. We have an ongoing constitutional review process in place, so your submissions should be what you provide rather than playa hating.

We have a unitary system. Whoever dominates the center, dominates all. That's the basis why everyone wants to produce the president and that's the defining characteristics of a unitary state.

Well, in my opinion, we need federalism to o live in peace and develop. Now, federalism can be based on either states or regions. Like SW can be a federating unit instead of having states within the zone as federating units. That way the unit becomes stronger and more effective. That's what people called regionalism because quite simply the people within the zone shares some similar features-language, culture etc. The region will have its own constitution and can create provinces within itself based on tenets of its constitution. Even the states we have in Nigeria today can't create local councils! Our states are too small to be strong federating units, so I support regions being our federating units.

Constitution reviews will NEVER help Nigeria. We have been amending the constitution since 1999 and we will continue to amend it, nothing will come out of it. We need a new constitution.

3 Likes

Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by nduchucks: 1:41am On Nov 10, 2013
Prof Corruption:

Constitution reviews will NEVER help Nigeria. We have been amending the constitution since 1999 and we will continue to amend it, nothing will come out of it. We need a new constitution.


Amended constitution ko New constitution, omi eko eko ni! If people like you stopped complaining and rolled up your sleeves and made tangible submissions to the constitutional review committee, attended hearings, put your resources where your mouths are, you may very well get the new constitution you seek.

My observations however, tells me that when you people talk of a new constitution, you really mean a dismantling of the current order and starting all over - SNC, Referrendum, or whatever you wanna call it. Unfortunately, that will not happen until you kill all the power brokers in the country smiley

Your only option for now is to do your best to improve the current system and vote the clueless one out.
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Nobody: 1:51am On Nov 10, 2013
ndu_chucks:

Amended constitution ko New constitution, omi eko eko ni! If people like you stopped complaining and rolled up your sleeves and made tangible submissions to the constitutional review committee, attended hearings, put your resources where your mouths are, you may very well get the new constitution you seek.

My observations however, tells me that when you people talk of a new constitution, you really mean a dismantling of the current order and starting all over - SNC, Referrendum, or whatever you wanna call it. Unfortunately, that will not happen until you kill all the power brokers in the country smiley

Your only option for now is to do your best to improve the current system and vote the clueless one out.

I would be deceiving myself to say you are wrong. You are perfectly correct! And that's why every discerning mind knows GEJ's national conference is a ruse.

But I am sure we ll continue to patch patch Nigeria until events force us to do the needful. Who knows? IF GEJ rigs 2015 elections and there is monumental crisis in the country, it can precipitate something like that.

But this present order is not sustainable. Kano has 44 local councils, Lagos 20 and Bayelsa 8. All were created by the military and all receive federal allocations. No state can successfully create local council without the input of National Assembly (reads Federal government). How's that sustainable considering what Lagos, Bayelsa and Kano contribute independently to federation account? You are just robbing peter to pay paul. That's the basis of agitation for resources control.

The country will always be in tension and vociferous cries of marginalisation will never stop.

3 Likes

Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Katsumoto: 1:53am On Nov 10, 2013
ndu_chucks: Let me help Omonna by throwing a baboonwrench into the equation - Kats, Is The Sharia court in Lagos an extensionof the federal judiciary?


There are customary courts in Nigeria as well. They all have their jurisdictions. If you commit fraud for instance, who will the Sharia court or customary court send to arrest you?

Hierarchy of Courts in Nigeria

1. Supreme Court
2. The Court of Appeal
3. The Federal High Court which is found in several states
4. The High court which is an extension of the judiciary in each state
5. The others - District, Magistrate, Area, Sharia

When you are arrested by the Police in any state, you will either be tried in the state High court or the Federal High court, depending on your offence.
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by naijaking1: 1:56am On Nov 10, 2013
Katsumoto:

'In political terms, he would be considered an adversary of the igbos given the intense rivalry between him and Dr Nnamdi Azikwe. As a leader of the modern cast, he has left Nigeria standards which are indelible, standards beside which future aspirants to public leadership can be eternally measured. He was firm, articulate, painstaking, and uncompromising. He was, for a long time, the only Nigerian leader who enunciated principles and played down personalities. He was a brilliant political administrator and a most erudite teacher. He not only identified himself wholly with the aspirations of the Yoruba people of Nigeria but also he was able to convince the Yoruba people of Nigeria that he and only he epitomized the highest point of their political aspirations and consciousness. He was loved, he was feared but above all he belonged to the people he professed to lead. At his death I had the singular honour of proposing for him the epitaph that has endured – ‘he was the best President that Nigeria never had’.

Many have wondered what I meant by this, but I believe the statement was clear. Nigeria would have benefited from his presidency because of his inate presidential qualities. Nigeria must continually regret that he never, for many reasons, had the opportunity to serve at the presidential level. Awo was a leader of great stature. He was a leader who was eminently successful. That he did not fulfill a presidential ambition cannot detract from his leadership, and us, poor us, who were not his people, must continue, to regret that our own leaders had not led us as he did his people or achieved for us as he did for his people.

He perceived his job as leading his people and God his soul. He did a lot for them. Whenever he saw an opportunity for his people, he went for it. He had a dream for the Yorubas and was steadfast in the pursuit of that dream. He knew where he was going and took his people with him without deceit. That is why he will remain immortal in the area of his influence.'

Emeka Ojukwu - "Because I Am Involved" page 159- 160.

Is that clear enough for you?

For the second bolded part, Igbos produced the first VCs because Igbbos were in power with the North. Same reason why Ironsi was made GOC even though the outgoing British GOC recommended Ogundipe.

You really need to gain some knowledge and increase your logical reasoning before you dive into debates.

I am worried when politicians use funeral eulogies as political tools.
Ojukwu's funeral adoration of Awo was simply an ode, and nothing more.
We must not disregard the cultural, spiritual, and even traditional contex of these words, only to quote(mis-quote) and use them out of contex, because of an immediate desire to win a political argument. Contex is important, and some would say it's everything.
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Katsumoto: 1:59am On Nov 10, 2013
naijaking1:

I am worried when politicians use funeral eulogies as political tools.
Ojukwu's funeral adoration of Awo was simply an ode, and nothing more.
We must not disregard the cultural, spiritual, and even traditional contex of these words, only to quote(mis-quote) and use them out of contex, because of an immediate desire to win a political argument. Contex is important, and some would say it's everything.

What context are you talking about?

Is that not from a book? Was Ojukwu standing at Awo's graveside when he wrote the book?

Please explain the context.

I don't get the arguments some of you have some times.
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Nobody: 2:02am On Nov 10, 2013
I thoroughly enjoyed the back and forth, even with "omonnakoda" playing the devil's advocate and reverse psychology sometimes. Kudos to everyone. However, it seems no has been able to paint a clear picture of what type of true federalism vis-a-vis regionalism that would be attainable.

For federalism: is it the American-styled federalism where states control everything within their jurisdiction - and DC controls international politics and everything else that has to do with the federal level. National security, monetary system and policies, defence etc.? Or something similar to England, where all the regions have their regional police units and other miscellaneous things, however, they operate within the laws that govern England and are absolutely powerless?

For regionalism: are we talking about Canada-styled regionalism with provinces, or something similar to pseudo-Tiraspol in Moldova?

Also, it seems no one has been able to talk about the feasibility of the SNC, how whatever is agreed upon there would be implemented, and why this might be a ponzi scheme to rip Nigerians off and shift their attention towards a time-wasting irrelevant gathering.

The reasons are:
- I doubt GEJ would want reduced power at the center if he were to return in 2015 (I doubt he would return except he wants anarchy in the land).
- Continuity is foreign to Nigeria and I believe whoever is elected when GEJ is booted out would throw whatever is discussed at the SNC into the trash can.

So what's the point?
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by nduchucks: 2:03am On Nov 10, 2013
Prof Corruption:

I would be deceiving myself to say you are wrong. You are perfectly correct! And that's why every discerning mind knows GEJ's national conference is a ruse.

But I am sure we ll continue to patch patch Nigeria until events force us to do the needful. Who knows? IF GEJ rigs 2015 elections and there is monumental crisis in the country, it can precipitate something like that.

But this present order is not sustainable. Kano has 44 local councils, Lagos 20 and Bayelsa 8. All were created by the military and all receive federal allocations. No state can successfully create local council without the input of National Assembly (reads Federal government). How's that sustainable considering what Lagos, Bayelsa and Kano contribute independently to federation account? You are just robbing peter to pay paul. That's the basis of agitation for resources control.

The country will always be in tension and vociferous cries of marginalisation will never stop.


I ask again, have you and/or any group you belong to made submissions which seek to address the issues you raised above to the constitutional review committee, or even plan to make submissions to Okurounmu's committee on national conference? If your answer is no in both cases, then you deserve the system you have. Aliens from space will not fix Nigeria for you people. Tough but true. smiley

Katsumoto:

There are customary courts in Nigeria as well. They all have their jurisdictions. If you commit fraud for instance, who will the Sharia court or customary court send to arrest you?

Hierarchy of Courts in Nigeria

1. Supreme Court
2. The Court of Appeal
3. The Federal High Court which is found in several states
4. The High court which is an extension of the judiciary in each state
5. The others - District, Magistrate, Area, Sharia

When you are arrested by the Police in any state, you will either be tried in the state High court or the Federal High court, depending on your offence.







OK. So when are you tried in the Sharia court in Lagos after being arrested by the police, and who makes that determination?
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by naijaking1: 2:08am On Nov 10, 2013
[/i][i][/b][b][b][/b]
Katsumoto:

What context are you talking about?

Is that not from a book? Was Ojukwu standing at Awo's graveside when he wrote the book?

Please explain the context.

I don't get the arguments some of you have some times.

He didn't need to stand by Awo's graveside to recall facts for his book, especially what he said when Awo died:


"At his death I had the singular honour of proposing for him the epitaph that has endured – ‘he was the best President that Nigeria never had’.


Even if you you have no respect for both men, integrity requires that you acknowledge the contex of a speech being used.
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Katsumoto: 2:09am On Nov 10, 2013
ndu_chucks:


I ask again, have you and/or any group you belong to made submissions which seek to address the issues you raised above to the constitutional review committee, or even plan to make submissions to Okurounmu's committee on national conference? If your answer is no in both cases, then you deserve the system you have. Aliens from space will not fix Nigeria for you people. Tough but true. smiley




OK. So when are you tried in the Sharia court in Lagos after being arrested by the police, and who makes that determination?


First, are you asking if the Police would try you in a Sharia court after they arrest you? If your offense necessitates being arrested by the Police, you are going to be tried in the High Court.

Second, the system is far from perfect. Most times politics, personal relationships, corruption, etc interfere in proceedings in Nigeria. That is evident to all.
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Katsumoto: 2:11am On Nov 10, 2013
naijaking1: [/i][i][/b][b][b][/b]

He didn't need to stand by Awo's graveside to recall facts for his book, especially what he said when Awo died:


"At his death I had the singular honour of proposing for him the epitaph that has endured – ‘he was the best President that Nigeria never had’.


Even if you you have no respect for both men, integrity requires that you acknowledge the contex of a speech being used.


I fail to see the point you are making. Did I quote Ojukwu out of context or not? If you believe so, please explain; I have no time for aimless pontification.
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Nobody: 2:18am On Nov 10, 2013
ndu_chucks:


I ask again, have you and/or any group you belong to made submissions which seek to address the issues you raised above to the constitutional review committee, or even plan to make submissions to Okurounmu's committee on national conference? If your answer is no in both cases, then you deserve the system you have. Aliens from space will not fix Nigeria for you people. Tough but true. smiley




OK. So when are you tried in the Sharia court in Lagos after being arrested by the police, and who makes that determination?


What submissions are you talking about? Seriously? Our problem is not dearth of submissions or ideas, it's implementation. 1999 constitution was not made public before the 1998 elections. I meant Obasanjo sworn to uphold a constitution he had never read! It was decree 38 issued by Abubakar. Which referendum did Babangida or Abacha conduct before creating states overwhelmingly in favor of the North? It was forced upon the nation just like 1999 was forced upon the nation and is skewed to favor the north. The North exercises a permanent political veto on any decision in Nigeria and that's why the PIB bill will never be passed to law, at least not in its present form. That explains why many are openly supporting GEJ despite his obvious incompetence and failures. To them, it's the only opportunity they have to also skew something in their own favor. So , Nigerians see Nigeria as a lady to take turns to rap.e , not as a farm to cultivate.

Let us be deceiving ourselves and present a false image of all is well. Events ll soon prove otherwise.

2 Likes

Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by nduchucks: 2:20am On Nov 10, 2013
Katsumoto:

First, are you asking if the Police would try you in a Sharia court after they arrest you? If your offense necessitates being arrested by the Police, you are going to be tried in the High Court.

Second, the system is far from perfect. Most times politics, personal relationships, corruption, etc interfere in proceedings in Nigeria. That is evident to all.


I hope you know that Islamic criminal law be applied in Sharia courts. The question you need to research is, who arrests the criminals? Police of course! You can call them Sharia police if you wish.
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by nduchucks: 2:22am On Nov 10, 2013
Prof Corruption:

What submissions are you talking about? Seriously? Our problem is not dearth of submissions or ideas, it's implementation. 1999 constitution was not made public before the 1998 elections. I meant Obasanjo sworn to uphold a constitution he had never read! It was decree 38 issued by Abubakar. Which referendum did Babangida or Abacha conduct before creating states overwhelmingly in favor of the North? It was forced upon the nation just like 1999 was forced upon the nation and is skewed to favor the north. The North exercises a permanent political veto on any decision in Nigeria and that's why the PIB bill will never be passed to law, at least not in its present form. That explains why many are openly supporting GEJ despite his obvious incompetence and failures. To them, it's the only opportunity they have to also skew something in their own favor. So , Nigerians see Nigeria as a lady to take turns to rap.e , not as a farm to cultivate.

Let us be deceiving ourselves and present a false image of all is well. Events ll soon prove otherwise.

As a practical matter, if you want results, you must participate in the process. This is your best option unless you are prepared to lead a popular revolution.
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Katsumoto: 2:27am On Nov 10, 2013
ndu_chucks:

I hope you know that Islamic criminal law be be applied in Sharia courts. The question you need to research is, who arrests the criminals? Police of course! You can call the Sharia police if you wish.

I already stated that the system in Nigeria is far from perfect. In a country where Police assist BH members to escape, I am not surprised.

What do you mean by Sharia Police? Police consituted by Sharia courts in the North of NPF?
Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by CyberG: 2:31am On Nov 10, 2013
naijaking1: [/i][i][/b][b][b][/b]

He didn't need to stand by Awo's graveside to recall facts for his book, especially what he said when Awo died:


"At his death I had the singular honour of proposing for him the epitaph that has endured – ‘he was the best President that Nigeria never had’.


Even if you you have no respect for both men, integrity requires that you acknowledge the contex of a speech being used.


It are mistaken about "context" but you are actually looking for a reason to water-down any positive acknowledgement of Chief Awolowo and since Ojukwu wrote in black and white, multiple lines, it is clear what he is saying, from the beginning to the end, each line supported the point made in the previous line, so what "context" are you talking about? Well, whatever context he chose, you are free to choose yours or even not acknowledge Chief Awolowo that no one in your generation and lineage will ever be mentioned in the same paragraph as him but what you cannot change is what anybody else has written about him. Therefore, do not come pretending to hang your hatred on some "context" when Ojukwu never wrote a re-joinder to clarify the "context" which only you can see till he died or you somehow know what he wanted to say better than the man who said it! Yes, you hate Chief Awolowo but like the big market, no one knows whether a single you or your family came to it or not - Chief Awolowo has enough recognition, praise and acknowledgement to last a whole country an eternity and that is what counts, not a hater who cannot matter even in his own family!

2 Likes

Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by CyberG: 2:35am On Nov 10, 2013
Katsumoto:

What context are you talking about?

Is that not from a book? Was Ojukwu standing at Awo's graveside when he wrote the book?

Please explain the context.

I don't get the arguments some of you have some times.

Katz, can you please ignore this kind of character, as annoying as his type may be? Asking or expecting him to explain a "context" when he is merely looking for any excuse to display his hatred only gives him even more of a platform. Let him write what he thinks, Ojukwu wrote his and never wrote a re-joinder to talk about the "context" and we the readers and witnesses will judge for ourselves!

1 Like

Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by Katsumoto: 2:39am On Nov 10, 2013
CyberG:

Katz, can you please ignore this kind of character, as annoying as his type may be? Asking or expecting him to explain a "context" when he is merely looking for any excuse to display his hatred only gives him even more of a platform. Let him write what he thinks, Ojukwu wrote his and never wrote a re-joinder to talk about the "context" and we the readers and witnesses will judge for ourselves!

I was wondering what context I may have missed.

Ojukwu wasn't stupid. He made the same statement. He then further clarified that statement to ensure that there was no ambiguity or sarcasm. And I suspect he did that because folks in Alaigbo were questioning why he made that statement. If Ojukwu wanted to keep everyone guessing, he wouldn't have provided clarity in a book.

Yet someone is talking about context. What freaking context.

3 Likes

Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by CyberG: 3:03am On Nov 10, 2013
Nigeria is definitely NOT practicing regionalism as being emphasized by Omonakoda and this is definitely not federalism and anyone is free to find another name for our system of government but it ridiculous to suggest that Nigeria practices "federalism", which was never our idea, nor a correct implementation of the original form as practiced by countries like the US! You can surely find another name for it, but it is leaves a bitter taste in the mouth if more than 50% of recent debate on this thread is whether or not Nigeria is practicing federalism.

Ironsi abolished a system of government with his decree 34 and introduced another one, is anyone suggesting that the system of government practiced now (pseudo-federalism, for lack of a better wording), the same as the federal system in which the federating units were regions, not states? At the end of the day, we can slice and dice the semantics of name however we want, suggest that a state is similar to a region, maybe smaller, but the actual form and operation of the government of Nigeria is nothing "Federal" at all. If the phraseology "regionalism" is used to distinguish the kind of "federal" government we have now and what a real federally structured government should be, then it is well justified - by all means if you will describe Nigeria as a "federal government", then make it so, not a unitary system of government wearing the outward clock of a "federal government".

It is quite plausible to think that because of Nigeria's long years of military rule, there is a severe blunting of what a "federal government" should be. Until federating units (be it states or regions) become self-governing AND control 100% of their own resources, do not have their lives controlled from remote central government, directly fund and control their own police, (please let people stop talking about courts at the state level, law and justice is useless IF the law cannot be enforced or can be manipulated by a CENTRAL GOVERNMENT!), can not make decisions that bother on what infrastructure the people of the state or region need but must check if the central government agrees (as in the case of the suspended bridge in Lagos where the FG is suggesting that the state needs to get some kind of approval before constructing a bridge on an inland waterway, etc, etc. I think we should just stay on this topic, Chief Awolowo did great for the Western States (region) of Nigeria and his people, anyone who disagrees can present an alternative opinion and support it with whatever reasons.

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Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by naijaking1: 3:07am On Nov 10, 2013
Katsumoto:

I was wondering context I may have missed.

Ojukwu wasn't stupid. He made the same statement. He then further clarified that statement to ensure that there was no ambiguity or sarcasm. And I suspect he did that because folks in Alaigbo were questioning why he made that statement. If Ojukwu wanted to keep everyone guessing, he wouldn't have provided clarity in a book.

Yet someone is talking about context. What freaking context.

Using Ojukwu's epitaph to support your description of Awo, and ignoring other more appropriate politically staged description of Awo(by the same man) is simply quoting the man out of freaking context, and you know it.
You might have as well go read us Awo's headstone: "The best president, Nigeria never had" while forgetting that people write epitaphs with emotion and not reality.
Reasonable people show respect, adoration, and even vindication for their dead opponents, if you use only what was said during the funeral and ignore all other disputes throughout the years in order to support your cheap argument, that's not not right, and it's called being out of contex.
So, once again, Sir, when you recall the eloquent words Ojukwu wrote when Awo died, please also recall the words he and his officers said about Awo throughout the years, especially when we're talking politics.

1 Like

Re: Awolowo Is Responsible For The Developments In Today's Western States - Clark by CyberG: 3:08am On Nov 10, 2013
Katsumoto:

I was wondering context I may have missed.

Ojukwu wasn't stupid. He made the same statement. He then further clarified that statement to ensure that there was no ambiguity or sarcasm. And I suspect he did that because folks in Alaigbo were questioning why he made that statement. If Ojukwu wanted to keep everyone guessing, he wouldn't have provided clarity in a book.

Yet someone is talking about context. What freaking context.

Very MUCH AGREED! When any quotes of Ojukwu which support the Biafra War surfaces, you never hear any Ibo mention "context" but when the same man made any comment otherwise, then someone remembers "context" and feels it necessary to correct Ojukwu's quote and tell us the interpretation as though we read his quotes in sign language initially!

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