OLAADEGBU:

The reason why you will not be able to see the truth in what any man of God says is because in your mind you have already put them in a box. That is what I call stereotypes. You group them as grace preachers, holiness preachers and in the process you miss the message altogether and give them a label. You need to have an open mind and have your senses exercised to discern good and evil. Once again I'll be quoting another general of God by the name John C. Ryle.

"People will never set their faces decidedly toward heaven and live like pilgrims, until they really feel that they are in danger of hell.

Let us expound and beat out the Ten Commandments, and show the length, and breadth, and depth, and height of their requirements. This is the way of our Lord in the Sermon on the Mount. We cannot do better than follow His plan. We may depend on it, men will never come to Jesus, and stay with Jesus, and live for Jesus, unless they really know why they are to come, and what is their need. Those whom the Spirit draws to Jesus are those whom the Spirit has convinced of sin. Without thorough conviction of sin, men may seem to come to Jesus and follow Him for a season, but they will soon fall away and return to the world"

I thank you for quoting J C Ryle. In my undergraduate days, over 10 years ago, I bought J C Ryle's book on HOLINESS, and next to the bible what that man taught in his book became the foundation of my Christian walk till date. I say it with all authority as one who will be judged by the words of his mouth on the last day: that, just like C H Spurgeon, J I Packer (who, by the way, wrote the preface to the modern day published Holiness book by J C Ryle) and J C Ryle himself preached a doctrine of grace alone.

What you have quoted above are the words of J C Ryle but they were written after he had laid a solid foundation in doctrine of grace stating clearly:

1. That Christian have Eternal Security and could not loose their salvation - a very calvinistic doctrinal position and anti-holiness doctrine

2. That Christians are called to fight a good fight a faith: a calling that may pitch them against other believers, so that a Toplady and Wesley though together in a heaven, did not agree doctrinally on earth.

3. That Christians must know the signs of the Times and the need to discern the works of the enemy in the church. In Ryle's day it was a lasp into Catholicism; in our day it is the Prosperity Gospel (fuelled by tithing) and the Holiness Movement (fuelled by legalism).

4. He taught Justification by faith alone; Priesthood of all believers and the authority of scriputure in all matter of faith and practise in the church.

5. Lastly, he taught on holiness, as you have decietfully quoted out of context; he taught that Christians must be holy as God demands of us and that we must not rest on extreme Calvinism that states that we are so predestined to salvation and it does not matter how we live. He taught holiness in this context of showing that true justification is shown forth in true holiness.

If you need more info: the book is a big green book with very little letterings as print. I read book over and over and over again until it was made flesh in me; so that when I misplaced it, I did not miss it for I still live the message.

Woe unto you OLAADEGBU because J C Ryle never preached:

1. Tithing: he never taught a strict 10 % of one's salary like you deceitful do on this forum

2. He never taught or encourage demonic visions; so that believers faith will rest on after life testimonies of dead and dying people.

3. He never taught holiness inside and out; such that the women in his church will look like widows.

He taught the bible. A contemporary of C H Spurgeon; a huge man, towering above 6 feet 3 inches. A blessed man of God.

And for this reason I am convinced that you have also quoted J I Packer out of context because I am too sure, Spurgeon never taught what you are implying he taught regardless of wether you quote them out of context or not.

I honestly think I am done with your thread: a word is enough for the wise!

PS:

As for grouping people into Holiness or Grace Preachers: can a man be separated from his message? The trajedy of our times is that we think all preachers are preaching the bible. True discernment can tell the background of a preacher and were he is going in less than five minutes of listening to him; it doesn't mean God cannot speak through him, but it shows that one is a true student of the bible and a good soldier of Christ that understand the times; just as Ryle himself encouraged us to do.

DrummaBoy:

I thank you for quoting J C Ryle. In my undergraduate days, over 10 years ago, I bought J C Ryle's book on HOLINESS, and next to the bible what that man taught in his book became the foundation of my Christian walk till date. I say it with all authority as one who will be judged by the words of his mouth on the last day: that, just like C H Spurgeon, J I Packer (who, by the way, wrote the preface to the modern day published Holiness book by J C Ryle) and J C Ryle himself preached a doctrine of grace alone.

What you have quoted above are the words of J C Ryle but they were written after he had laid a solid foundation in doctrine of grace stating clearly:

1. That Christian have Eternal Security and could not loose their salvation - a very calvinistic doctrinal position and anti-holiness doctrine

2. That Christians are called to fight a good fight a faith: a calling that may pitch them against other believers, so that a Toplady and Wesley though together in a heaven, did not agree doctrinally on earth.

3. That Christians must know the signs of the Times and the need to discern the works of the enemy in the church. In Ryle's day it was a lasp into Catholicism; in our day it is the Prosperity Gospel (fuelled by tithing) and the Holiness Movement (fuelled by legalism).

4. He taught Justification by faith alone; Priesthood of all believers and the authority of scriputure in all matter of faith and practise in the church.

5. Lastly, he taught on holiness, as you have decietfully quoted out of context; he taught that Christians must be holy as God demands of us and that we must not rest on extreme Calvinism that states that we are so predestined to salvation and it does not matter how we live. He taught holiness in this context of showing that true justification is shown forth in true holiness.

If you need more info: the book is a big green book with very little letterings as print. I read book over and over and over again until it was made flesh in me; so that when I misplaced it, I did not miss it for I still live the message.

Woe unto you OLAADEGBU because J C Ryle never preached:

1. Tithing: he never taught a strict 10 % of one's salary like you deceitful do on this forum

2. He never taught or encourage demonic visions; so that believers faith will rest on after life testimonies of dead and dying people.

3. He never taught holiness inside and out; such that the women in his church will look like widows.

He taught the bible. A contemporary of C H Spurgeon; a huge man, towering above 6 feet 3 inches. A blessed man of God.

And for this reason I am convinced that you have also quoted J I Packer out of context because I am too sure, Spurgeon never taught what you are implying he taught regardless of wether you quote them out of context or not.

I honestly think I am done with your thread: a word is enough for the wise!

PS:

As for grouping people into Holiness or Grace Preachers: can a man be separated from his message? The trajedy of our times is that we think all preachers are preaching the bible. True discernment can tell the background of a preacher and were he is going in less than five minutes of listening to him; it doesn't mean God cannot speak through him, but it shows that one is a true student of the bible and a good soldier of Christ that understand the times; just as Ryle himself encouraged us to do.

You take pride in boasting about how much you know about the "history" of men of God but you still speak like a natural man who has no spiritual insight and is unable to discern the truth of the word of God. I'll leave you with quotes from A. W. Pink who paints a true picture of what is happening in these last days.

"Just as the world was not ready for the New Testament before it received the Old, just as the Jews were not prepared for the ministry of Christ until John the Baptist had gone before Him with his claimant call to repentance, so the unsaved are in no condition today for the gospel till the Law be applied to their hearts, for 'by the Law is the knowledge of sin.' It is a waste of time to sow seed on ground which has never been ploughed or spaded! To present the vicarious sacrifice of Christ to those whose dominant passion is to take fill of sin, is to give that which is holy to the dogs"

Our Lord Jesus gave us this command not to engage the proud with the gospel of grace unless they are humble enough and have a heart to receive it. It is the Law to the proud and Grace to the humble.

"Give not that which is holy to the dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you" (Matthew 7:6).

OLAADEGBU:

You take pride in boasting about how much you know about the "history" of men of God but you still speak like a natural man who has no spiritual insight and is unable to discern the truth of the word of God. I'll leave you with quotes from A. W. Pink who paints a true picture of what is happening in these last days.

"Just as the world was not ready for the New Testament before it received the Old, just as the Jews were not prepared for the ministry of Christ until John the Baptist had gone before Him with his claimant call to repentance, so the unsaved are in no condition today for the gospel till the Law be applied to their hearts, for 'by the Law is the knowledge of sin.' It is a waste of time to sow seed on ground which has never been ploughed or spaded! To present the vicarious sacrifice of Christ to those whose dominant passion is to take fill of sin, is to give that which is holy to the dogs"

Our Lord Jesus gave us this command not to engage the proud with the gospel of grace unless they are humble enough and have a heart to receive it. It is the Law to the proud and Grace to the humble.

"Give not that which is holy to the dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you" (Matthew 7:6).

When Did Jesus Use the Law?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eStCK2fGk3M&feature=share&list=PLIMAX6WHtnhA-BpmoqZJledgkQSdXfBrM

DrummaBoy:

J I Packer and Charles Haddon Spurgeon are foremost Grace Preachers. That is all that C H Spurgeon preached in his over 40 years ministration at the The London Metropolitan Terbanacle. I have read J I Packer's works before and I can assure you that he is a Grace Preacher.

It is from a firm foundation of what the Grace of God can do in the hearts of men that they made the statements they made above. If you cannot explain to us what the grace of God can do, why lay a demand of the law on men who naturally cannot do anything to help themselves as far keeping the law is concerned.

The error of the Holiness Movement, for which these two men were known antagonists, is that it sets the cart before the horse. God's grace must do a work in the hearts of men before they can keep the law. And the law that must be kept is not the ten commandments but the law of the Spirit of life, written expressely in the epistle and the teachings of Christ.

they are grace preacher who know how to use the law.

The spiritual nature of the Law.

Notice how the sins named are transgressions of the Moral Law - the Ten Commandments. If civil law can prove that you are planning to assassinate the President, you can be prosecuted and severely punished. That law, however, is limited in its search for evidence - it can't see what a man thinks. Not so with the all-seeing eye of our Creator. His Law searches the heart. He sees "evil thoughts," and requires truth in the inward parts (Psalms 51:6). To think hatred is to commit murder (1 John 3:15) and transgress the sixth Commandment. To think lustfully is to commit adultery (Matthew 5:27-28) and transgress the Seventh Commandment. Fornication breaks the same Commandment (Galatians 5:19). Then Jesus names theft (Eight Commandment), false witness (Ninth), and blasphemies (Third). A person cannot lust without breaking the Tenth, and by their nature, these sins transgress the remaining four Commandments. All sin traces in some way back to the Moral Law, for sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). This is why the Law must be used to bring the knowledge of sin to religious people who are trusting in their own righteous deeds for their salvation.

"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, theft, false witness, blasphemies" (Matthew 15:19) The Evidence Bible.

OLAADEGBU: The spiritual nature of the Law.

Notice how the sins named are transgressions of the Moral Law - the Ten Commandments. If civil law can prove that you are planning to assassinate the President, you can be prosecuted and severely punished. That law, however, is limited in its search for evidence - it can't see what a man thinks. Not so with the all-seeing eye of our Creator. His Law searches the heart. He sees "evil thoughts," and requires truth in the inward parts (Psalms 51:6). To think hatred is to commit murder (1 John 3:15) and transgress the sixth Commandment. To think lustfully is to commit adultery (Matthew 5:27-28) and transgress the Seventh Commandment. Fornication breaks the same Commandment (Galatians 5:19). Then Jesus names theft (Eight Commandment), false witness (Ninth), and blasphemies (Third). A person cannot lust without breaking the Tenth, and by their nature, these sins transgress the remaining four Commandments. All sin traces in some way back to the Moral Law, for sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). This is why the Law must be used to bring the knowledge of sin to religious people who are trusting in their own righteous deeds for their salvation.

"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, theft, false witness, blasphemies" (Matthew 15:19) The Evidence Bible.

Beautiful piece. The law of the spirit. The motive behind an action.
Even in our common law, the motive or intent of an act is traced back. But God judges the motives of an action even before it is carried out physically.
That is why the bible says He that walks in the Spirit is not under the law but those who work in the flesh remain bound by the law.

"Some people do not like to hear much of repentance; but I think it is so necessary that if I should die in the pulpit, I would desire to die preaching repentance, and if out of the pulpit I would desire to die practicing it." Matthew Henry

The reason so many who camp here are so bitter against Christianity is that they heard a message that lacked a knowledge of sin (which comes by the moral Law), and therefore didn’t find a place of biblical repentance. Those who have the experience of a false conversion either remain among God’s people as "goats among the sheep," or they fall away from the faith "and their latter end becomes worse than the first." For a deeper understanding of this tragedy listen to "Hell’s Best Kept Secret" on www.livingwaters.com

"The chief danger of the 20th Century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, and Heaven without Hell." - William Booth (founder of the Salvation Army).

Booth's words spoken more than 100 years ago were certainly prophetic. We are now living in days when the pure gospel of everlasting life has degenerated into nothing more than a message of self-indulgence and life improvement. The result has been a Church filled with false converts, a corrupt political system, and a denial of the reality of Hell.

"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither has it entered into the heart of man, the terrible things God has prepared for those that hate Him." Charles Spurgeon

Before you mock or speak of Spurgeon being guilty of fear-mongering, ask yourself one question. What if a Hell is a reality? What if this world was created by a God who is morally perfect? What if God has made a way for you live forever? Then Spurgeon (and all who warn of a Hell) isn’t your enemy. He is your best of friends.

Watch -> www.EvolutionVsGod.com

"There is a war between you and God's Law. The Ten Commandments are against you. The first comes forward and says, ‘Let him be cursed. For he denies Me. He has another god beside Me. His god is his belly and he yields his homage to his lust.’ All the Ten Commandments, like ten great cannons are pointed at you today. For you have broken all God’s statutes and lived in daily neglect of all His commands. Soul, you will find it a hard thing to go to war with the Law; When the Law came in peace, Sinai was altogether on a smoke and even Moses said, ‘I exceeding fear and quake!’

"What will you do when the Law of God comes in terror; when the trumpet of the archangel shall tear you from your grave; when the eyes of God shall burn their way into your guilty soul; when the great books shall be opened and all your sin and shame shall be punished… can you stand against an angry Law in that Day?" -- Charles Spurgeon

"Does it grieve you, my friends, that the name of God is being taken in vain and desecrated? Does it grieve you that we are living in a godless age? ...But, we are living in such an age and the main reason we should be praying about revival is that we are anxious to see God's name vindicated and His glory manifested. We should be anxious to see something happening that will arrest the nations, all the peoples, and cause them to stop and to think again." - Martyn Lloyd-Jones

Those who love God know the grievous feeling of hearing continual mocking. While such grief is a reality, our trembling concern is for those doing the mocking because we know that "God is not mocked. For whatever a man sows, that will he also reap." Fools who insist on throwing rocks at the sun will have their foolishness come back on their own heads. You can be sure of that.

Watch -> www.EvolutionVsGod.com

"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That you abstain from meats offered to idols and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if you keep yourselves, you shall do well. Fare you well." (Acts 15:28, 29). READ Acts 15-16

The condemnation of the Law cannot come near the Christian (Romans 8:1). It can only pursue us to Calvary.

Alwaystrue:

Beautiful piece. The law of the spirit. The motive behind an action.
Even in our common law, the motive or intent of an act is traced back. But God judges the motives of an action even before it is carried out physically.
That is why the bible says He that walks in the Spirit is not under the law but those who work in the flesh remain bound by the law.

Thanks for your insight. The law of the Spirit of life Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death. We thank God for a higher law. Here's another point:

150 years ago it would have been unthinkable to a jumbo jet filled with people, could be airborne. The law of gravity made it impossible for even a feather to remain in the air. Yet, we know that when a certain object moves at a particular speed, it moves out of the law of gravity into a higher law, the law of aerodynamics, even though the law of gravity still remains. The world thinks the Christian is crazy to live for our Lord Jesus Christ. But we know that, even though there is a law of sin and death, we live in a higher law the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death" (Romans 8:2) The Evidence Bible.

"Failure is only the opportunity to begin again more intelligently." -- Henry Ford

If you think Christianity has failed you, try again but this time with biblical repentance. See www.needGod.com

A little girl was once looking at a sheep as it ate green grass. She thought to herself how nice and white the sheep looked against the green grass. Then it began to snow. The little girl thought how dirty the sheep looked against the white snow. It was the same sheep, but with a different background. When we compare ourselves to the background of man's standards, we come up reasonably clean. However, when we compare ourselves to the snow-white righteousness of the Law of God, we see that we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteous deeds are as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:4).

"And He said to them, You are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knows your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God" (Luke 16:15) The Evidence Bible.

Someone Said: "Christianity is a guilt trip?"

Response:

Which of the Ten Commandments makes you feel guilty, and why?

OLAADEGBU:

The spiritual nature of the Law.

Notice how the sins named are transgressions of the Moral Law - the Ten Commandments. If civil law can prove that you are planning to assassinate the President, you can be prosecuted and severely punished. That law, however, is limited in its search for evidence - it can't see what a man thinks. Not so with the all-seeing eye of our Creator. His Law searches the heart. He sees "evil thoughts," and requires truth in the inward parts (Psalms 51:6). To think hatred is to commit murder (1 John 3:15) and transgress the sixth Commandment. To think lustfully is to commit adultery (Matthew 5:27-28) and transgress the Seventh Commandment. Fornication breaks the same Commandment (Galatians 5:19). Then Jesus names theft (Eight Commandment), false witness (Ninth), and blasphemies (Third). A person cannot lust without breaking the Tenth, and by their nature, these sins transgress the remaining four Commandments. All sin traces in some way back to the Moral Law, for sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). This is why the Law must be used to bring the knowledge of sin to religious people who are trusting in their own righteous deeds for their salvation.

"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, theft, false witness, blasphemies" (Matthew 15:19) The Evidence Bible.

The spiritual nature of the law.