italo:

Is that what you can comprehend from my post?

italo:
The teaching that only people who believe what you believe will be saved...is a lie.

Sharpen you critical reasoning skills.


.

adsonstone:

Is that what you mean?

If it is, affirm it by saying yes.
It its not - rephrase in unambiguous words.

adsonstone:

Who taught that only people that believe like me will be saved?
If I was, provide a proof.

If I'm not....that further shows you to be a shameless liar.

try69:

I guess when the old english say "your worship" to magistrates, it means they have put the person in place of God.. Or when chinese people bow to the other, they have put them in God's place

GO AND LEARN!

You clearly don't know history.. See, history is even more important as you try to decipher bible truths..

The word worship comes from the Old English weorthscipe, which means the condition of being worthy of honor, respect, or dignity. To worship in the older, larger sense is to ascribe honor, worth, or excellence to someone, whether a sage, a magistrate, or God.

But there are different kinds of worship, just as there are different kinds of honor. The highest honor, and thus the highest worship, is given to God alone, while the honor or worship given to living men or to saints in heaven is of a different sort. Idolatry thus does not simply mean giving worship (in the old sense) to living men or to saints; it means giving them the kind reserved for God.


Nowadays, there is a problem using the word "worship" because in the popular mind it refers to the worship of God alone. For practical purposes it has come to mean nothing else than adoration. Although it was commonly used in the wider sense as recently as the nineteenth century (when, for instance, Orestes Brownson, an American Catholic writer, produced a book called The Worship of Mary), it is usually too confusing to use it that way now, as the example of the priest shows. It is wise to restrict its use to God and to use for saints and others terms like honor and veneration.

Is this distinction without a difference? It would be if the worship given to God were the same as the honor given to a saint. But it isn't.

The term "worship" was used in the same way in the Bible that it used to be used in English. It could cover both the adoration given to God alone and the honor that is to be shown to certain human beings. In Hebrew, the term for worship is shakah. Its appropriately used for humans in a large number of passages.

For example, in Genesis 37:7-9 Joseph relates two dreams which God gave him concerning how his family would honor him in coming years. Translated literally the passage states: "'[B]ehold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and lo, my sheaf arose and stood upright; and behold, your sheaves gathered round it, and worshipped [shakah] my sheaf.' . . . Then he dreamed another dream, and told it to his brothers, and said, 'Behold, I have dreamed another dream; and behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were worshipping [shakah] me.'"

In Genesis 49:8, Jacob pronounced a prophetic blessing on his sons, and concerning Judah he stated: "Judah, your brothers shall praise you; your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies; your father's sons shall worship [shakah] you." And in Exodus 18:7, Moses honored his father-in-law, Jethro: "Moses went out to meet his father-in-law, and worshipped [shakah] him and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare, and went into the tent."

Yet none of these passages were discussing the worship of adoration--the kind of worship given to God.


http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/maryc5.htm

try69:

Oga, nobody worships mary haba!!! Una no dey hear word?? grin


Did any apostle celebrate xmas?

Did any apostle wed people in church?

Did any apostle wore suits?

Did any apostle say "bible alone"?

Did any apostle celebrate easter?

Did any apostle receive tithe?

The obvious answers are NO! But

Can you wed without a pastor/priest?

You see why your question hold no water?

italo:

mediate[ v. mee-dee-eyt; adj. mee-dee-it ]verb (used with object)
1. to settle (disputes, strikes, etc.) as an intermediary between parties; reconcile.
2. to bring about (an agreement, accord, truce, peace, etc.) as an intermediary between parties by compromise, reconciliation, removal of misunderstanding, etc.
3. to effect (a result) or convey (a message, gift, etc.) by or as if by an intermediary.

Christians do all of these so they are mediators. Period!

italo:
If you show me...and tell whether you called
me a liar or not when I said Paul suffered to
make up for what was lacking in Christ...and
tell if you were aware that Romans 2 taught
what I say it taught before I showed you or
not...and tell whether you knew that the
Holy Spirit could speak through someone in
error before I showed you Caiaphas or not... I
will agree.

italo:
2 Cor 1:6

italo:
It is not mere Bible history.
If you said the Bible was compiled in the 4th
century by the Church in Rome, it means
you're saying the deuterocanonical books are
inspired.
That is clearly a teaching on faith.
I see that you are trying desperately to flee
from your infalibility claim. You have seen it
fail so badly. Lol.

italo:
While I search for the evidence, what did you
mean when you said you were infallible?

italo:

mediate[ v. mee-dee-eyt; adj. mee-dee-it ]verb (used with object)
1. to settle (disputes, strikes, etc.) as an intermediary between parties; reconcile.
2. to bring about (an agreement, accord, truce, peace, etc.) as an intermediary between parties by compromise, reconciliation, removal of misunderstanding, etc.
3. to effect (a result) or convey (a message, gift, etc.) by or as if by an intermediary.

Christians do all of these so they are mediators. Period!

italo:
@ adsonstone,You'll agree with me that its about time you answered my question:Can you ever teach or interpret scripture wrongly.....or are you always right when you teach and interpret scripture?

adsonstone:


The bold is corect because I have (and will always have) the Holy Spirit who guides me.

italo:


Is that what you understand by my post?

italo:
You didnt teach so but you probably thought so...until I showed you Romans 2.

Now can you show me proof of where I lied? Or is it the usual case of accusation without proof?

I actually feel for you.

St. Paul has absolutely single-handedly destroyed you that the only reply you can muster is "liar" "liar" even without proof of any lie.

Lol.

BERNIMOORE:

hypocrisy at the highest level! try69 where are all these explanations above until i threw what your hymn says which you people sang?

bolded below was what you said that you dont worship mary;



you should have admited to worship first, then take the pain to explain the meanings but you denied any form of worship before you admit some form of worship when you are embarrased with the hymn

when you people are caught red handed you shift your goal-post where are all these worship explanations before i posted the song catholics sang in their hymn

italo:



Here's your claim of infallibility.

So how come you were wrong in teaching that the deuterocanonicals were scripture?

How come you were wrong when you called me liar for saying the Holy Spirit said Paul suffers to make up for what is lacking in the suffering of Christ?



You're just one of those who lie in the name of the Holy Spirit, arent you?

italo:

What do you mean by "mediator?"

italo:
1. God alone is God...

2. God alone is divine

3. God alone is holy

4. God alone is good

5. Jesus alone is shepherd

6. Jesus alone is rock

7. Jesus alone is high priest

8. God alone forgives sins

True, false or 'I dont know.'

BERNIMOORE: [s]

hypocrisy at the highest level! try69 where are all these explanations above until i threw what your hymn says which you people sang?

bolded below was what you said that you dont worship mary;



you should have admited to worship first, then take the pain to explain the meanings but you denied any form of worship before you admit some form of worship when you are embarrased with the hymn

when you people are caught red handed you shift your goal-post where are all these worship explanations before i posted the song catholics sang in their hymn [/s]

italo:



Here's your claim of infallibility.

So how come you were wrong in teaching that the deuterocanonicals were scripture?

How come you were wrong when you called me liar for saying the Holy Spirit said Paul suffers to make up for what is lacking in the suffering of Christ?



You're just one of those who lie in the name of the Holy Spirit, arent you?

italo:
..... or are you always right when
you teach and interpret scripture?

adsonstone:
The bold is corect because I have (and will
always have) the Holy Spirit who guides me.

adsonstone:
Are you scared of being exposed alongside the RCC?

Regarding your questions...and conditions esp the bold (which is a lie)

When you said the bold, you said Paul was suffering affliction for redemption which was lacking in Christ's.....I disagreed and said such should never be heard from a christian (that the redemption is incomplete)...then you showed a verse Paul affirmed he was suffering for salvation of men (note, not redemption of men).....which doesn't support your claim.

Here's what I said...

[quote author=italo]'Men suffer for the salvation of men.'--The Holy Spirit.
'Paul suffers to make up for what is lacking in the suffering of Christ.'--The Holy Spirit.

and here's what you replied.

[quote author=adsonstone]dont lie against the Holy Spirit.Show me where the Holy Spirit said 'Christ's suffering is lacking something (the bold)' or perhaps (in simpler words), 'Christ's suffering is incomplete'.

italo: @ Bernimoore, olodo.

I thought you'd know.

Maybe you should start by examining these verses where the Greek and hebrew words for worship are used and tell me if it was talking about worship meant for God.

Matt 18:16, Rev 3:9, Gen 18:2, Gen 23:7, 12.

The problem with you folks is you have no sense of history.

"Worship" does not mean the honour due God alone...only. In the old days, it was used widely for the honour due other beings.

Read and cure your ignorance!

adsonstone:
Adsonstone claims that he can't be wrong in teaching and interpreting scripture (not Faith and Morals as italo falsely alleged) as long as the Holy Spirit guides him.

Talking about 4th century bible isn't interpreting scripture neither is it teaching it....at least, to anyone who has an iota of honesty which RCC members have shown not to have..

adsonstone:

Talking about Paul's suffering, Italo claimed Paul suffers for mankind's redemption which was lacking in Christ's suffering and Adsonstone bluntly disagreed.

....Which is true; Paul never suffered for mankind's redemption.

adsonstone:

You just defined it.

The Holy Spirit says Christ is that ONE mediator or do you doubt Him?


if you disagree, show where He said we have other mediators....especially Mary as a mediator.

adsonstone: ^^^^
Is this the answer to my question?

Christ alone suffered to redeem us.
True, False, I don't know


When you answer, I'll attend to your questions.

adsonstone:

Maybe.



Yes, at last....you own up that I never taught such....you thought that from your wild imagination/thinking.

And since I didn't teach so (which you just affirmed in the bold), you have been lying against me that I taught so....you just confessed.

Another shameless liar from the RCC caught.
Thank God he owned up.
I forgive you for lying against me all this while.

BERNIMOORE:

your case is similar to that of farouk lawan who denied taking any form of money "as a bribe" but after otedola released some videos through sss, he farouk changed just few hours later and sayid that "yes i received and accept some money, but it was not "Not a bribe"

what stops him from telling us that he took money in the first place, and why cant he allow us to decide what it means maybe it is bribe, or not dont decide for us,....that was my comment on the thread then.


why do you people wait to explain "worship", an afterthoght, until i expose your hymn where you sing worship worship to queen mary

BERNIMOORE: see 3 strong evidences

your pope "prostrate to a shrine built for mary's image"

your pope acknowledge that in his apostolic writings,.....yet you say its not worship that it was honor

then

you sang the hymn "all things worship mary" and try69 said "nobody is worshiping Mary"

tell me can your own children trust your own word? kai

italo:
So again, is it a lie that you called me liar when
I said Paul suffered to make up for what is
lacking in Christ's suffering?
I really want to know who's the liar here.

italo:
Who said Paul completes what is lacking in the
suffering of Christ (for redemption)? The Holy
Spirit, not Human traditions.

adsonstone:
Regarding the second, I am dissapointed in you
as a Christian.
You mean Christ's sacrfice was incomplete and
Paul had to complete it?!

italo:
Paul suffers to make up for what is lacking in
the suffering of Christ.'--The Holy Spirit

italo:
Col 1:24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you,
and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the
afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body,
which is the church

adsonstone:


Now we'll catch the liar again.

Italo said:



Here, he clearly says Paul completes Christ's suffering for redemption.

Adsonstone replied;



Adsonstone replied based on Italo's claim that says Paul completes Christ's suffering of redemption for Mankind.....a false claim which I duly pointed out that he wasn't suffering for redemption.

Italo reaffirmed the false claim that Paul completes Christ's suffering for redemption.



....and He quoted a verse that says Paul suffers for Men's salvation not Redemption as He claimed.




Now, I disagree....and request a bible verse affirming his claim.....and I'm still waiting.

....Now, Italo thinks I'm the liar.

SMH for liars.

italo:

I wasn't reaffirming anything.

I made a statement: Paul suffered to make up for what was lacking in the suffering of Christ.

You said: stop lying. Show me where the Holy spirit said that.

Yes or no.

italo:

I never ever claimed that you taught such, yet you call me and the Catholic Church liars.

You have become really clueless and desperate.

Will you please show evidence of this?

italo: Going by the English meaning of "mediate," the Holy Spirit asks us all to mediate when he says we should pray to God and suffer for others.

italo:
When you answer my questions, you'll find my answer.

God also told men to worship men

Are we like Farouk Lawan, olodo