italo:
The person doesn't necessarily become infallible. The Holy Spirit can speak through the High priest, a donkey or even fire. It doesn't mean they understand it, much less teaching it.

Infallibility entails the totality of revealed truths.

Anyone can speak a truth even without the influence of the Holy Spirit. It doesn't make them infallible on any matter.
Oh! At least you have finally shown you've learnt one thing from me: that the Holy Spirit can speak through one who is in error on other truths of faith and morals.

However, the Church, unlike Caiaphas cannot teach error on any matter of faith and morals. It is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Like it or not, when the Holy Spirit teaches ANYONE anything, the person is never wrong on what he is taught.

italo:
That the teaching that only people who believe like you and Chris Okotie will be saved is a lie.

What do I believe?

That there is ONLY one salvation source/name which is Christ is a lie?

Is that what you mean?

JMAN05:

Habah!! what is wrong with your brain? I was talking to someone else not Italo. why still doubt simple things like this?

replace that "referred to" with "talked to", if your eye remains blocked, then forget the matter abeg ooo.

Italo has justified the 'expression' he made with Col. 1:24, there is no need of pressing the issue. But if the argument is on redeeming people with his blood, Christ's sacrifice has done that completely, it was'nt incomplete. That colosians doesnt contradict this at all. But some are not acquainted with this provision. here is where we come in, to preach the word, so that people will benefit. With our preaching alone, aside from his blood, those we preach to cant be redeemed. inshort our preaching is so that they will put faith in him and be redeemed.

On the issue of mediating the new covenant, Christ did it alone. On the issue of reaching God with our prayers, Christ does it alone, ie it must pass through Christ before reaching God. He is the high Priest. He alone. I think this is the issue under discussion. I think they are battling the word co-mediator by Mary. I dont want to get involved fully in this until my earlier words are attended to.

1. Simple english, you no know

2. Wetin catholic doctrine teach, you no know, rather you accuse wrongly

3. Jesus = God, you can't even decipher

Anti-christ!

try69:


How__to_catch_a_ christian liar 101

No, here's a better way.


RCC members and others should answer these.


1. Christ is the sole mediator between God and Man.

True, False or I don't know

2. Christ alone suffered for man's redemption.

True, False or I don't know


Italo, Try69 and other RCC brothers should answer these simple questions.

Jman and Truthislight should also answer please.....and all other interested Christians.


Note: There is an option of 'I don't know' and it is not a crime neither is it a sin to choose it.

italo: For record purposes, after I answered JMAN's 9 questions, I asked him just 1:

Are you fallible or infallible?

Almost 900 posts later, still no answer.

Cann you honestly say you dont know my answer to this? well, hehehe if u no won answer, na e be say i go dey copy and paste am as what you believe na. habah! any long talk there?

@italo

The catholics alledged that apostle Peter, is the first pope(no biblical basis for that except catholics own tradition), but Peter never mention the “Virgin Mary”? in all his letters. Not only did he not mention her, but zero nothing is said by peter apostle about the need to venerate or worship her. This fact speaks volumes against the Catholic’s view of Mary because;

All popes worshipped Mary and leaned on her for salvation, and they have, and if Peter was the first pope, why does he not praise and adore Mary in the same vein as other popes?

peter did not prostrate to mary's idol in any shrine! like Pope John Paul did to her graven (forbidden) image shrines at [b]Lourdes and Fatima no record of that[/b]!

BERNIMOORE: @italo

The catholics alledged that apostle Peter, is the first pope(no biblical basis for that except catholics own tradition), but Peter never mention the “Virgin Mary”? in all his letters. Not only did he not mention her, but zero nothing is said by peter apostle about the need to venerate or worship her. This fact speaks volumes against the Catholic’s view of Mary because;

All popes worshipped Mary and leaned on her for salvation, and they have, and if Peter was the first pope, why does he not praise and adore Mary in the same vein as other popes?

peter did not prostrate to mary's idol in any shrine! no record of that!

Did he ever mention nairaland or computer? Nonsense

POPE II:
Did he ever mention nairaland or computer? Nonsense

computer or nairaland is not the issue here, but clearly catholic traditions and practices are Allien to what the alledged pope "apostle peter" practice and belief, and this further shows that there was no iota of truth that peter was linked to the catholic!

because you cant show any evidence!

BERNIMOORE:

computer or nairaland is not the issue here, but clearly catholic traditions and practices are Allien to what the alledged pope "apostle peter" practice and belief, and this further shows that there was no iota of truth that peter was linked to the catholic!

because you cant show any evidence!

your analogy doesn't make sense so because Peter and john Paul were not wearing the same things/clothes it means John Paul is illegitimate? Ah ah don't kill me with laughter. Every pope are free to put their papacy
under a specific saint .

Peter is the first pope and therefore linked to catholic church stop throwing punches in the air, you can't fight the obvious

italo: ^^^

Haters be making a fool of themselves.

They dont know the Catholic Church doesn't call Mary "co-mediator"...and they "battling against the word."

Battling against something that doesn't exist.

That's what hatred and envy does to their brains.

LMAO! "Protestants will keep protesting," they say.

when I say they are fighting her being co-mediator (or mediatrix), this what I mean.

adsonstone said:

Since the RCC reps have refused to
acknowledge those Jesus called His Mother
as the His true mother or 'Mother of God' as
the RCC put it, why not let us move to the
concept of Mary being a co-mediator with
Jesus or a mediator to Jesus and Jesus to
God."

Are you saying that you dont believe catholics should pray to God thru mary and mary then will pass to Jesus, then Jesus to God? (funny game sha).

Are you saying that it is not true? pls talk so that we wont be saying what you dont believe.

Your teaching that mary coredeemed the world with Jesus on the "cross" is another heresy unacceptable by the bible.

they even teach that grace and any good that come to "man" passes through mary. Can you imagine that kind of thing? well, let me close my mouth until I see there proves.

POPE II: your analogy doesn't make sense so because Peter and john Paul were not wearing the same things/clothes it means John Paul is illegitimate? Ah ah don't kill me with laughter. Every pope are free to put their papacy
under a specific saint .

Peter is the first pope and therefore linked to catholic church stop throwing punches in the air, you can't fight the obvious

who is talking about wearing the same cloth, or thing? are you around? this is how you are diverting to saying "computer" and "NL"

What im saying is that no bible character,peter for example ever prostrated before any shrine of mary, nor mention "virgin mary" but rather it was an act in imitation of the pagans

there is no evidence that link peter with the catholic, but evidence links catholics with paganism

figure of Mary has been erroneously elevated to a goddess status by Roman Catholic theologians. She is known as the Queen of Heaven, Mother of God, Eternal Virgin, Queen of Peace, Our Mother, Lady of the Good Death, Co-mediatrix, and Blessed Mother. Thousands of shrines around the world commemorate her. Visions, apparitions, visitations, and channeled messages accompany the mystical experiences of her followers.

Cesar Vidal elaborates,

“The idea of the universal motherhood of Mary, which does not appear historically until the 11th century, has a much greater connection with paganism than with Scripture. The same can be said of the representation of Mary with the divine child. This concept was also unknown…in the first centuries of Christianity.
…it is especially significant that Mary worship, which we find in Catholicism and in the Eastern churches, does not stem at any point from biblical concepts, but from theabsorption of pagan theologies like those present in the myths of Isis, Demeter and Cybele.” ( The Myth of Mary, p. 86, 89)

^ trash

What I'm saying is the behaviors of a pope is not conditioned by his predecessor. period

Each pope is different, so is each papacy, you are only trying to draw stupid lines and moronic conjectures. Our popes don't come to do what Peter used to do they come to follow the teachings of God ,our doctrines and lead us .period

adsonstone:


Yes, Paul had to suffer....because He MUST suffer.

My point is Pal was not suffering ANYTHING that has to do with Redemption as you said.
Christ suffered ALL for redemption.

Or do you still want to say something else.

LMAO! Back for more "knocks."

St. Paul has something to say, not me.

2 Cor 1:6 If we are being afflicted, it is for your consolation and SALVATION.

And that was not your point. When I said the Holy Spirit said Paul suffers to make up what's lacking in the suffering of Christ, you accused me of lying against the Holy Spirit.

Now I have shown you what you didnt know, you are dubiously trying to change your claim. Lol.

adsonstone:

That's your own opinion, not necessarily the Holy Spirit----I repeat.

Well, you have prove to us that the Holy Spirit has changed the meaning of the English word "mediate."

adsonstone:


I still can't believe that you say this.

Have you forgotten that the RCC says 'God will save muslims' (and I showed you the evidence of that statement--from a RCC source) knowing fully well that they are outside Christ and you even said that they sidestep the Son....


Now, being a fraud (just as the RCC), you want to change the message back to 'God can Save'.

Then prove me and the Catholic Church frauds by showing everyone where the Catholic Church said "God WILL save Muslims" and not "God can save."

This will show if I and the Catholic Church are frauds...or you and Deeper Life Church.

adsonstone:

The bold---- , you can lie sha....
What a pity!

sorry, you didn't say I was misinterpreting; you said I was assuming. Similar!

"perhaps, I should just leave your assumptions to you concerning the Holy Spirit's words."--Your words.

In any case you didn't know Romans 2 taught that until I showed you. Now instead of acknowledging that, you're lying that the Catholic Church misinterpreted it to say "God WILL save." Without evidence.

adsonstone:

But you said this abi...


...and this

So, what do you mean if not 'men redeem/co-redeem mankind'?

Oya, twist/change your own words to suit circumstances

I never said "men redeem men." If you insist I did, simply quote where I said so.

adsonstone:


If you can't say what is lacking in Christ's suffering, then you don't understand what that verse is talking about.

Col 1:24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 

Simple as ABC!

adsonstone:

The bold is a lie (and I request an evidence for your allegation regarding the bold).

Why do you love mixing lies with truth....so much?

Anyway, it is a custom of the RCC.

Remember what will happen to liars as stated in Revelation 21:8

Will you agree that you are one of those who teach false doctrines and ascribe it to the Holy Spirit if I take the trouble to dig up the evidence?

BERNIMOORE: @italo

The catholics alledged that apostle Peter, is the first pope(no biblical basis for that except catholics own tradition), but Peter never mention the “Virgin Mary”? in all his letters. Not only did he not mention her, but zero nothing is said by peter apostle about the need to venerate or worship her. This fact speaks volumes against the Catholic’s view of Mary because;

All popes worshipped Mary and leaned on her for salvation, and they have, and if Peter was the first pope, why does he not praise and adore Mary in the same vein as other popes?

peter did not prostrate to mary's idol in any shrine! like Pope John Paul did to her graven (forbidden) image shrines at [b]Lourdes and Fatima no record of that[/b]!

Oga, nobody worships mary haba!!! Una no dey hear word??


Did any apostle celebrate xmas?

Did any apostle wed people in church?

Did any apostle wore suits?

Did any apostle say "bible alone"?

Did any apostle celebrate easter?

Did any apostle receive tithe?

The obvious answers are NO! But

Can you wed without a pastor/priest?

You see why your question hold no water?

Double post

adsonstone:

Like it or not, when the Holy Spirit teaches ANYONE anything, the person is never wrong on what he is taught.

The person can misunderstand or misinterprete the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

And the Holy Spirit can speak through someone or an animal or a rock without "teaching" them.

Like it or not, the Church is the pillar and foundation of the Truth.

adsonstone:

What do I believe?

That there is ONLY one salvation source/name which is Christ is a lie?

Is that what you mean?

That the teaching that only those who believe like adsonstone and Chris Okotie will be saved...is a lie.

That is what Romans 2 means.

italo:

LMAO! Back for more "knocks."

St. Paul has something to say, not me.

2 Cor 1:6 If we are being afflicted, it is for your consolation and SALVATION.

Why are you quoting what you have shown that you don't understand?

Anyway, lemme help you.
Just answer this honestly, perhaps, the truth will be revealed.

1. Christ is the sole mediator between God and
Man (according to the Holy Spirit).
True, False or I don't know

italo:
Well, you have prove to us that the Holy Spirit has changed the meaning of the English word "mediate."

'Mediate'.....The meaning hasn't change.

That's why when the Holy Spirit said ONE mediator, it did not change....unless you will prove to us in return that the Holy
Spirit has changed the meaning of 'Mediate' or the meaning of 'ONE'

italo:

Then prove me and the Catholic Church frauds by showing everyone where the Catholic Church said "God WILL save Muslims" and not "God can save."

This will show if I and the Catholic Church are frauds...or you and Deeper Life Church.

....and if I show everyone, will you accept that you and the RCC are liars and 'frauds'?

Accept this first.

italo:
I never said "men redeem men." If you insist I did, simply quote where I said so.

Usual denial....I'm not surprised.

It seem you don't have any regard for proofs and evidence.

italo:
Col 1:24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 

Simple as ABC!

Still quoting what you don't understand.

Infact, Lemme ask you this.

Just answer honestly.

Christ alone suffered for man's redemption.
True, False or I don't know

italo:

Will you agree that you are one of those who teach false doctrines and ascribe it to the Holy Spirit if I take the trouble to dig up the evidence?

Alright, I agree.

but....You'll have to show me where I claimed inspiration in talking about bible history...and where I claimed infallibility in teaching faith and morals.

...and if you fail to provide both, the RCC is a fraud and a liar.

adsonstone:


N, here's a better way.


RCC members and others should answer these.


1. Christ is the sole mediator between God and Man.

True, False or I don't know

What do you mean by "mediator?"

adsonstone:

2. Christ alone suffered for man's redemption.

True, False or I don't know

1. God alone is God...

2. God alone is divine

3. God alone is holy

4. God alone is good

5. Jesus alone is shepherd

6. Jesus alone is rock

7. Jesus alone is high priest

8. God alone forgives sins

True, false or 'I dont know.'

italo:


The person can misunderstand or misinterprete the teaching of the Holy Spirit .

And the Holy Spirit can speak through someone or an animal or a rock without "teaching" them.

Like it or not, the Church is the pillar and foundation of the Truth.

Yes, the Church is the pillar and ground of truth, I know that.

The bold: do you mean the person can say wrong things under the Holy Spirit's influence?

italo:
That the teaching that only those who believe like adsonstone and Chris Okotie will be saved...is a lie.

That is what Romans 2 means.

Please!

What Adsonstone believes is found in Acts 4:12.

----That there is only one name/source of salvation....and Adsonstone believes that God can save others (because He can do all things) ....If He will, I don't know.
Only God knows.


You mean that belief is lie?


....And if that's not what adsonstone believes, kindly state what adsonstone believes....MR Italo.

First question: how do you know all that Peter did?

The Catholic Church told you the man wrote 2 small letters we included in the Bible.

Do you suppose those letters make up 0.1% of St. Peter's teachings during his lifetime?

BERNIMOORE: @italo

The catholics alledged that apostle Peter, is the first pope(no biblical basis for that except catholics own tradition), but Peter never mention the “Virgin Mary”? in all his letters. Not only did he not mention her, but zero nothing is said by peter apostle about the need to venerate or worship her. This fact speaks volumes against the Catholic’s view of Mary because;

All popes worshipped Mary and leaned on her for salvation, and they have, and if Peter was the first pope, why does he not praise and adore Mary in the same vein as other popes?

peter did not prostrate to mary's idol in any shrine! like Pope John Paul did to her graven (forbidden) image shrines at [b]Lourdes and Fatima no record of that[/b]!

And you can show evidence that Peter worshipped in Kingdom Hall?

BERNIMOORE:

computer or nairaland is not the issue here, but clearly catholic traditions and practices are Allien to what the alledged pope "apostle peter" practice and belief, and this further shows that there was no iota of truth that peter was linked to the catholic!

because you cant show any evidence!

adsonstone:


No, here's a better way.


RCC members and others should answer these.


1. Christ is the sole mediator between God and Man.

True, False or I don't know

2. Christ alone suffered for man's redemption.

True, False or I don't know


Italo, Try69 and other RCC brothers should answer these simple questions.

Jman and Truthislight should also answer please.....and all other interested Christians.


Note: There is an option of 'I don't know' and it is not a crime neither is it a sin to choose it.

all true.

But I must say that the problem with this discussion is that terms has not been defined appropriately. If you limit the definition, then the result will appear in no distant time.

If you say redemption. define the redemption you mean cos someone will use that word in different situations to twist his way thru and justify himself. Christ shade his blood to buy us back. Is he saying that this suffering to redeem us is incomplete? it is true his expression found a replica in col. 1:24, but what meaning is he given to that? that is where eisegesis of his comes in.

Does he understand the verse to mean that christ's redemption work of buying us with his blood was incomplete? That is misunderstanding.

Paul's suffering for christ is an assignment which he will do to the full. that work did not finish when he was in rome cos Jesus told him he has more work to do. compare acts 9:16.

his statement is that he was filling up this suffering he is ordained to suffer for the body of christ. he is sufferring the sufferings that had not been sufferred among the sufferrings he is ordained to suffer. ie he is working to finish the sufferings that remain. NOT that christ's own suffering was incomplete. that is eisegesis.

This translation brings it out;

"I am now rejoicing in my sufferings
for your sake, and I am undergoing the
tribulations of the Christ that are yet
lacking in my flesh in behalf of his body,
which is the congregation."

On mediatorship, you define what you are against. is it the teaching of - mary - Jesus - God formula? You ask him if they teach such. it is when you know another's point that you can disprove it. always ask him or bring a document/prove which shows they believe so, ie if he denies any.

and always post your point with the defined subject in mind, if not, one may twisting away the main issue.

this will save time and achieve greater result.

Are you fallible or infallible?

Going to 1000 posts, still unable to answer.

JMAN05:

when I say they are fighting her being co-mediator (or mediatrix), this what I mean.

adsonstone said:



Are you saying that you dont believe catholics should pray to God thru mary and mary then will pass to Jesus, then Jesus to God? (funny game sha).

Are you saying that it is not true? pls talk so that we wont be saying what you dont believe.

Your teaching that mary coredeemed the world with Jesus on the "cross" is another heresy unacceptable by the bible.

they even teach that grace and any good that come to "man" passes through mary. Can you imagine that kind of thing? well, let me close my mouth until I see there proves.

Go and re-write history na.

All reasonable scholars know Peter was the 1st Pope.

The early Church Fathers, the men who compiled the Bible too knew this.

BERNIMOORE:

who is talking about wearing the same cloth, or thing? are you around? this is how you are diverting to saying "computer" and "NL"

What im saying is that no bible character,peter for example ever prostrated before any shrine of mary, nor mention "virgin mary" but rather it was an act in imitation of the pagans

there is no evidence that link peter with the catholic, but evidence links catholics with paganism

figure of Mary has been erroneously elevated to a goddess status by Roman Catholic theologians. She is known as the Queen of Heaven, Mother of God, Eternal Virgin, Queen of Peace, Our Mother, Lady of the Good Death, Co-mediatrix, and Blessed Mother. Thousands of shrines around the world commemorate her. Visions, apparitions, visitations, and channeled messages accompany the mystical experiences of her followers.

Cesar Vidal elaborates,

“The idea of the universal motherhood of Mary, which does not appear historically until the 11th century, has a much greater connection with paganism than with Scripture. The same can be said of the representation of Mary with the divine child. This concept was also unknown…in the first centuries of Christianity.
…it is especially significant that Mary worship, which we find in Catholicism and in the Eastern churches, does not stem at any point from biblical concepts, but from theabsorption of pagan theologies like those present in the myths of Isis, Demeter and Cybele.” ( The Myth of Mary, p. 86, 89)

Did any being mention "Bible?"

try69:

Oga, nobody worships mary haba!!! Una no dey hear word??


Did any apostle celebrate xmas?

Did any apostle wed people in church?

Did any apostle wore suits?

Did any apostle say "bible alone"?

Did any apostle celebrate easter?

Did any apostle receive tithe?

The obvious answers are NO! But

Can you wed without a pastor/priest?

You see why your question hold no water?

[quote author=try69]

Oga, nobody worships mary haba!!! Una no dey hear word??

let me pick your questions one after another,

(1) you said nobody worships mary

,

you dont even know how to lie, let me show you 2 evidences of catholic admitting 'worship of mary" i know that catholic faithfuls are told to deny that they worship mary, but their own recorded


The Glories of Mary by Alphonsus de Liguori explicitly mentions Marian worship in the fifth stanza of the hymn, “Mary, Virgin of Virgins” (page 589).

“Queen thou art, whom all things worship,
Earth and hell, and heaven above;
But thy heart o'erflows with goodness,
Just and sinners feel thy love.”
http://willingshepherds.org/Aspirations%20to%20Mary.htm

Try 69 this is one of the songs catholic faithfull sang "queen whom all things worship" in the above page 589 of the "track" Mary, Virgin of Virgins

or the pope who prostrate to her shrine, ......Pope John Paul made more than 40 pilgrimages to her shrines at Lourdes and Fatima.

He wrote in his Apostolic Letter of Oct. 16, 2002, the following words:

“I entrust this Apostolic Letter to the loving hands of the Virgin Mary, prostrating myself in spirit before her image in the splendid Shrine built for her by Blessed Bartolo Longo, the apostle of the Rosary.”

italo: Did any being mention "Bible?"

Thanks for the precision jare

[quote author=POPE II]^ trash

What I'm saying is the behaviors of a pope is not conditioned by his predecessor. period

stop this lie pleease: it was more than condition, directives of former papal were adhered to in this evidence;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariology_of_the_saints

Louis de Montfort who was a priest for only 16 years and had but a handful of followers upon his death at the beginning of the 18th century, yet influenced four popes, namely Leo XIII, Pius X, Pius XII and John Paul II who chose his personal motto Totus Tuus(Mary im all yours) based on Montfort's influence.

Beyond the teachings of the early Church Fathers, the growth of Mariology over the centuries has been shaped by the interplay not only of theologians but also of three other forces:

1, Papal directives and teachings of the Holy See, based largely on the work of theologians.
2, Popular Catholic sentiments, devotions.
3, Views, writings and religious experiences of saints, theologians and non-theologians.

adsonstone:

Why are you quoting what you have shown that you don't understand?

Anyway, lemme help you.
Just answer this honestly, perhaps, the truth will be revealed.

1. Christ is the sole mediator between God and
Man (according to the Holy Spirit).
True, False or I don't know



'Mediate'.....The meaning hasn't change.

That's why when the Holy Spirit said ONE mediator, it did not change....unless you will prove to us in return that the Holy
Spirit has changed the meaning of 'Mediate' or the meaning of 'ONE'

mediate[ v. mee-dee-eyt; adj. mee-dee-it ]verb (used with object)
1. to settle (disputes, strikes, etc.) as an intermediary between parties; reconcile.
2. to bring about (an agreement, accord, truce, peace, etc.) as an intermediary between parties by compromise, reconciliation, removal of misunderstanding, etc.
3. to effect (a result) or convey (a message, gift, etc.) by or as if by an intermediary.

Christians do all of these so they are mediators. Period!

adsonstone:


....and if I show everyone, will you accept that you and the RCC are liars and 'frauds'?

Accept this first.

If you show me...and tell whether you called me a liar or not when I said Paul suffered to make up for what was lacking in Christ...and tell if you were aware that Romans 2 taught what I say it taught before I showed you or not...and tell whether you knew that the Holy Spirit could speak through someone in error before I showed you Caiaphas or not... I will agree.

See all the things your envious and hateful mind has learnt from a Catholic...

[quote author=adsonstone]

Usual denial....I'm not surprised.

It seem you don't have any regard for proofs and evidence.

Show me where I said "men redeem men."

adsonstone:

Still quoting what you don't understand.

Infact, Lemme ask you this.

Just answer honestly.

Christ alone suffered for man's redemption.
True, False or I don't know

2 Cor 1:6.

adsonstone:

Alright, I agree.

but....You'll have to show me where I claimed inspiration in talking about bible history...and where I claimed infallibility in teaching faith and morals.

...and if you fail to provide both, the RCC is a fraud and a liar.

It is not mere Bible history.

If you said the Bible was compiled in the 4th century by the Church in Rome, it means you're saying the deuterocanonical books are inspired.

That is clearly a teaching on faith.

I see that you are trying desperately to flee from your infalibility claim. You have seen it fail so badly. Lol.

While I search for the evidence, what did you mean when you said you were infallible?

adsonstone:

Yes, the Church is the pillar and ground of truth, I know that.

The bold: do you mean the person can say wrong things under the Holy Spirit's influence?

Is that what you can comprehend from my post?

adsonstone:

Please!

What Adsonstone believes is found in Acts 4:12.

----That there is only one name/source of salvation....and Adsonstone believes that God can save others (because He can do all things) ....If He will, I don't know.
Only God knows.


You mean that belief is lie?


....And if that's not what adsonstone believes, kindly state what adsonstone believes....MR Italo

The teaching that only people who believe what you believe will be saved...is a lie.

Sharpen you critical reasoning skills.


.

[quote author=italo]

First question: how do you know all that Peter did?

simple, through the current or latest sacred scripture, and NOT the unholy pagan scripture Apocrypha

The Catholic Church told you the man wrote 2 small letters we included in the Bible. Do you suppose those letters make up 0.1% of St. Peter's teachings during his lifetime?

small letters indeed! im satisfied with that small, the 2 small letters are the authenthic since its completion more than 2000 yrs ago, and moreso since it wasnt part of the apocripha unconfirmed and unholy scripture added by the catholic

even revelation 22:18 warns about the sacred scrolls, revelation is said to be the last book is the sacred scripture, it added a curse on those who added the unholy and unpopular apocripha not recognised outside the catholic that;

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

be warned

@ Bernimoore, olodo.

I thought you'd know.

Maybe you should start by examining these verses where the Greek and hebrew words for worship are used and tell me if it was talking about worship meant for God.

Matt 18:16, Rev 3:9, Gen 18:2, Gen 23:7, 12.

The problem with you folks is you have no sense of history.

"Worship" does not mean the honour due God alone...only. In the old days, it was used widely for the honour due other beings.

Read and cure your ignorance!

BERNIMOORE:

I guess when the old english say "your worship" to magistrates, it means they have put the person in place of God.. Or when chinese people bow to the other, they have put them in God's place

GO AND LEARN!

You clearly don't know history.. See, history is even more important as you try to decipher bible truths..

The word worship comes from the Old English weorthscipe, which means the condition of being worthy of honor, respect, or dignity. To worship in the older, larger sense is to ascribe honor, worth, or excellence to someone, whether a sage, a magistrate, or God.

But there are different kinds of worship, just as there are different kinds of honor. The highest honor, and thus the highest worship, is given to God alone, while the honor or worship given to living men or to saints in heaven is of a different sort. Idolatry thus does not simply mean giving worship (in the old sense) to living men or to saints; it means giving them the kind reserved for God.


Nowadays, there is a problem using the word "worship" because in the popular mind it refers to the worship of God alone. For practical purposes it has come to mean nothing else than adoration. Although it was commonly used in the wider sense as recently as the nineteenth century (when, for instance, Orestes Brownson, an American Catholic writer, produced a book called The Worship of Mary), it is usually too confusing to use it that way now, as the example of the priest shows. It is wise to restrict its use to God and to use for saints and others terms like honor and veneration.

Is this distinction without a difference? It would be if the worship given to God were the same as the honor given to a saint. But it isn't.

The term "worship" was used in the same way in the Bible that it used to be used in English. It could cover both the adoration given to God alone and the honor that is to be shown to certain human beings. In Hebrew, the term for worship is shakah. Its appropriately used for humans in a large number of passages.

For example, in Genesis 37:7-9 Joseph relates two dreams which God gave him concerning how his family would honor him in coming years. Translated literally the passage states: "'[B]ehold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and lo, my sheaf arose and stood upright; and behold, your sheaves gathered round it, and worshipped [shakah] my sheaf.' . . . Then he dreamed another dream, and told it to his brothers, and said, 'Behold, I have dreamed another dream; and behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were worshipping [shakah] me.'"

In Genesis 49:8, Jacob pronounced a prophetic blessing on his sons, and concerning Judah he stated: "Judah, your brothers shall praise you; your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies; your father's sons shall worship [shakah] you." And in Exodus 18:7, Moses honored his father-in-law, Jethro: "Moses went out to meet his father-in-law, and worshipped [shakah] him and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare, and went into the tent."

Yet none of these passages were discussing the worship of adoration--the kind of worship given to God.


http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/maryc5.htm