There is nothing that is impossible under the sun.

How soon the Ijebu becoming Jebusites by the day! Well, as long as the people feel okay with it, it feels good. Albeit, when the true Yoruba history would be written, the historian of Africa should not buy into all form of temptation to fix origin for words at convenience, the old Platonic wisdom is telling, "things are not what they seems to be." You will end up with literal bankruptcy to all Yoruba word in search for foreign equivalent.

What does Ijebu mean? some were quick to point to Jebusites. Once you make that conclusion, you have annul all linguistic investment that the ancient Yoruba had encapsulated in a word that is theirs. Some people are too proud to learn from a word, they knew better and they tell a word what it should mean, like the word was device strictly for them and for their usage. humpty-dumpty style, that is. The word does not have any contribution in its own affair. That's crazy.

Again, what does Ijebu mean? The word simply mean "Ije bu". Revd. Samuel Johnson said it is "food of the deep" in the history of the Yorubas. That's not congruent with Yoruba history. Ije bu means "the sea voyage". Likewise, Aje bu means "the sea voyager". The eponymous name Ijebu-Ode derived from Ajebu and Olode. Ajebu simply means "the seafarer." Elsewhere, we hear in Yoruba, (Ota) omo Olota Odo, omo Aro Dede womi. "Womi" is a variant of "Ijebu" that is roaming the sea.

Put in anther language, Ijebu is akin to "iwori", with iwo, meaning wandering, and eri in Ijebu dialect meaning river. The ancient Yoruba were obsessed with sea faring, it happens to fetch them money, and coast land, which was what they were looking for as "Owa" or "Igbo" (iwaju Oloko tii sowo...ogede-gede Oloko tii mi yebe-yebe lori omi). Then a line of thought on this survive till our time as "igboke-gbodo (wa)", that is, "the (our) search for uplands and rivers."

We learn of the primordial link between Ijebu and Itshekiri. What this mean is that the people (Yoruba ancestors) were founding civilization about in their wake. How so? That is when one consider itshekiri to mean "ise-kiri" that is, "founding by wandering". Compare the contrast, the word will minister to you. Thank God Yoruba have a lot of alternatives to every word, Awori or Warri is also akin to Ijebu, it means "wandering on the river."


Feel free to comment.

I'm yours faithfully,

Ladi Akinleye.

I'm not disputing this. However, why the name Jebu and Jekri (for Itsekiri's who are mostly Ijebu by the way)? The Jebusites were the original inhabitants of present day Palestine and they were definitely black at that point in history. So what happened to them and where did they go?

We all know Ijebu ancestry has no link with Oduduwa and Obanta's origin is debatable. However, the Ijebu's were already in Ode before the arrival of Obanta from Ife or Waddai in Sudan (depending on which of the two you align with).

kk

So I was just wondering if there's any evidence that the Jebusites of Palestine were black.

Well, you don't need anyone to tell you that based on the timeline in which the Jebusites lived in the present-day Palestine. And at that point in history, there was no Arab ethnicity and Middle East was part of Africa.

shymexx: I'm not disputing this. However, why the name Jebu and Jekri (for Itsekiri's who are mostly Ijebu by the way)? The Jebusites were the original inhabitants of present day Palestine and they were definitely black at that point in history. So what happened to them and where did they go?

We all know Ijebu ancestry has no link with Oduduwa and Obanta's origin is debatable. However, the Ijebu's were already in Ode before the arrival of Obanta from Ife or Waddai in Sudan (depending on which of the two you align with).

I don't follow 'politico' tradition. Ijebu is of the nexus of Oduduwa. The need to be different is not unconnected to the success of Awo's Egbe omo Oduduwa, which pitch great Ijebu against great Ife by 'lesser' remo (Awo) to Ijebu. The dilema of the time was how these two power blocs will see face to face, after the feud of 19th century, hence the ethical severance you are refering to. Awo differ to Ife in spirit of oneness of all Yoruba.

shymexx: Well, you don't need anyone to tell you that based on the timeline in which the Jebusites lived in the present-day Palestine. And at that point in history, there was no Arab ethnicity and Middle East was part of Africa.

Um.... Wow.

Anyway, the Jebusites were Semitic-speaking Canaanites. From Ancient Egyptian paintings of Ancient Canaanites that I have seen, I would say they were definitely Caucasian.

Radoillo:
Um.... Wow.

Anyway, the Jebusites were Semitic-speaking Canaanites. From Ancient Egyptian paintings of Ancient Canaanites that I have seen, I would say they were definitely Caucasian.

Lmao...

Caucasians farther down the Mediterranean at that point in history?

Who's a semite/semitic - care to explain?

Well, the excavated bones tell a different story. Who the hell planted negro bones all over middle east, all the way to Saudi Arabia?

If we trade Ijebu for Jebusite, we must invent shekrisite for jekiri. BTW, Jekri is still the same as ije-kiri, meaning 'wandering about'. Shimexx, I have got you spring, so this has always been your 'comfort zone' hence you never contributed to all the quest on Oduduwa? That's bad.

ladionline: I don't follow 'politico' tradition. Ijebu is of the nexus of Oduduwa. The need to be different is not unconnected to the success of Awo's Egbe omo Oduduwa, which pitch great Ijebu against great Ife by 'lesser' remo (Awo) to Ijebu. The dilema of the time was how these two power blocs will see face to face, after the feud of 19th century, hence the ethical severance you are refering to. Awo differ to Ife in spirit of oneness of all Yoruba.

Ijebu's history has always been about Obanta.

shymexx:

Lmao...

Caucasians farther down the Mediterranean at that point in history?

Who's a semite/semitic - care to explain?

Well, the excavated bones tell a different story. Who the hell planted negro bones all over middle east, all the way to Saudi Arabia?

Oh! An Afrocentrist.

shymexx:

Ijebu's history has always been about Obanta.

Perfect, Obanta is identical with Olode. OBA ONI ITA, That in mainstream yoruba would be BATA. OLODE is ONI ODE or ONI ITA. Ode is a variant of ITA. Now check this split: O bu.ru bi 'AJE' OTA. The ancient Yoruba were familiar with Aje, a shrew merchant. Aje means 'wayfaring' here. BTW, bata is an antonym of bara. BATA means sellers' consult, while BARA means buyers' consult. OBANTA is 'prime seller' while OBARA means 'prime buyer'.

Jebusites are to Ijebu as Edomites are to Edo, or Orissa in India is to Orisha in Nigeria. There is no cultural, ethnic or religious relationship beyond the coincidence of terms that sound alike. This is not an unusual situation around the world; the human mouth can only produce so many sounds and some of them are bound to be similar.

Carry on.

TerraCotta: Jebusites are to Ijebu as Edomites are to Edo, or Orissa in India is to Orisha in Nigeria. There is no cultural, ethnic or religious relationship beyond the coincidence of terms that sound alike. This is not an unusual situation around the world; the human mouth can only produce so many sounds and some of them are bound to be similar.

Carry on.

I'm pretty sure some Igala writer has also linked his people with the Gallas of Ethiopia

Radoillo:

Oh! An Afrocentrist.

And make sure you get a refund from whoever taught your history because your brain is oversaturated with pure junk. If you don't know what timeline signifies in history and who the former inhabitants of the whole middle east were, before admixture led to the creation of the Arab ethnicity - I can't help you.

Please shut the door on your way out.

ladionline: Perfect, Obanta is identical with Olode. OBA ONI ITA, That in mainstream yoruba would be BATA. OLODE is ONI ODE or ONI ITA. Ode is a variant of ITA. Now check this split: O bu.ru bi 'AJE' OTA. The ancient Yoruba were familiar with Aje, a shrew merchant. Aje means 'wayfaring' here. BTW, bata is an antonym of bara. BATA means sellers' consult, while BARA means buyers' consult. OBANTA is 'prime seller' while OBARA means 'prime buyer'.

Not disputing that. However, I'm just alluding to Ijebu history/ancestry and how it has no connection with Oduduwa. I was raised to be Yoruba. But there are tons of Ijebu's out there who don't believe that they're Yoruba. They might be in the minority, however, they also have a right to explore their ancestry. Since everything about the origins of all the ethnic groups in Nigeria is inconclusive. We all know there was no one in present-day Nigeria, during pre-historic times. So where did all these people migrate from?

Also, you and I can't deny the fact that the Ijebu's are the most hated group among Yoruba's by other Yoruba subgroups. Despite being at the forefront of the Yoruba identity in post-colonial Nigeria. So if certain people feel the need to get a different identity - why can't you let them do that? Heck, even Awolowo said he was Ijebu before he became Yoruba because of the hate.

shymexx:

How shut the fvck up and go focus on your Igbo history? I sure didn't see "Igbo" on the thread and what's bad in people exploring their origins?

And make sure you get a refund from whoever taught your history because your brain is oversaturated with pure junk. If you don't know what timeline signifies in history and who the former inhabitants of the whole middle east were, before admixture led to the creation of the Arab ethnicity - I can't help you.
Please shut the door on your way out.

U need to relax. Leave the insults for less intelligent people. I'm African. I'm interested in African history. I have some interest in Middle Eastern history as well. No one's talking about Arab identity here.
I was only trying to get your source that ancient Canaanites were 'Negro', cause I've investigated that matter in some depth and found no credible evidence.

By the way, didn't know having Igbo roots meant I couldn't share my thoughts on things non-Igbo...

Radoillo:

U need to relax. Leave the insults for less intelligent people. I'm African. I'm interested in African history. I have some interest in Middle Eastern history as well. No one's talking about Arab identity here.
I was only trying to get your source that ancient Canaanites were 'Negro', cause I've investigated that matter in some depth and found no credible evidence.

You started the name-calling with the "Afrocentrist" thing. People like you are always quick to label those who don't believe in Eurocentric junk, "Afrocentrist." That's an insult.

Anyway, I don't need source for the race of ancient Canaanites, since most of the history books were written by caucasians and I know they would called "caucasians" just as the ancient Egyptians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and everyone in the Bible were called "Caucasians." Even the Moors were called "caucasians" by these sources.

However, if you want archaeological evidence(s) that can't be disputed based on the timeline, that the ancient Canaanites were negroes - then I can provide that.

shymexx:

You started the name-calling with the "Afrocentrist" thing. People like you are always quick to label those who don't believe in Eurocentric junk, "Afrocentrist." That's an insult.

Anyway, I don't need source for the race of ancient Canaanites, since most of the history books were written by caucasians and I know they would called "caucasians" just as the ancient Egyptians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and everyone in the Bible were called "Caucasians." Even the Moors are called "caucasians" by these sources.

However, if you want archaeological evidence(s) that can't be disputed based on the timeline, that the ancient Canaanites were negroes - then I can provide that.

OK. I don't mind seeing the evidence... and I apologise if the Afrocentrist bit got to you.

Radoillo:

OK. I don't mind seeing the evidence... and I apologise if the Afrocentrist bit got to you.

It's cool.

I believe you would agree with me that the Canaanites were the ones who later became the Phoenicians. And they migrated to Carthage. Also, you don't need any evidence to know that Hannibal was black. His coin is a proof.

Here is the DNA testing done on Carthaginians/Phoenicians:

"They left only a small impact in North Africa," Wells says. "No more than 20 percent of the men we sampled had Y chromosomes that originated in the Middle East. Most carried the aboriginal North African M96 pattern."
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/features/world/asia/lebanon/phoenicians-text/5

^^^That's from National Geographic.

However, let's break-down the E-M96 pattern DNA haplogroup:

Most members of haplogroup E-M96 belong to one of its identified subclades, and the E-M96 (xE-P147,xE-M75) lineage is rare. E1a and E-M75 are found almost exclusively in Africa. By looking at the major subclade frequencies, five broad regions of Africa can be defined: East, Central, North, Southern and West. The division can be distinguished by the prevalence of E-V38 in East, Central, Southern and West Africa, E-M78 in East Africa and E-M81 in North Africa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-M96

Haplogroup E:

Haplogroup E is primarily found in Africa, but it also exists in Europe and Asia. Apart from North America, its levels are very low or it is completely absent elsewhere in the world. Its presence in North America is largely due to the slave trade from ~1650-1850AD that brought Africans to America and not due to indigenous or native Americans as they lack this haplogroup.

The Haplogroup E branch of Y chromosomes is identified by the presence of SNPs M40 and M96 (and others; SRY4064, SRY8299, and P29). E1 is the predominant subclade, while E2 is much less frequent. Within E1, E1b1 (defined by SNP P2) is the most abundant and widespread representative, and accounts for most of Haplogroup E worldwide. E1b1 lineages vary in abundance over Africa and three main regions are evident from the distribution peaks of three subclades: E1b1a (SNP M2) in Sub-Saharan Africa, E1b1b1a (SNP M78) in East Africa and E1b1b1b (SNP M81) in Northwest Africa. The difference in geographic location of Haplogroup E subclades also aligns with distinct language groups supporting the idea that there is prevailing father to son transmission of language in Africa. This very general picture has recently yielded to finer views of African lineages and migrations through the definition and study of additional subclades and more remote branches of Haplogroup E. Indeed, this is one most frequently revised Y-DNA haplogroups with several upgrades of its subclade nomenclature. To help avoid confusion with this terminology, we always include the informative or defining SNP with each subclade as these remain constant over revision of subclades names and phylogenetic arrangements.
http://www.genebase.com/learning/article/2

That's all you need to know. Thank me later.

Hmm...Give me a little time to absorb that.

This would, of course, mean that the bust of Hannibal which I have seen several times isn't really Hannibal's.

Also when they talked about the 'aboriginal North African people' it sounded to me like they were talking about the Berber people of today's Morocco-to-Libya, and not Sub-Saharan peoples.

i don't really know to what extent shared genetic indicators can tell us what ancient people looked like, and what racial category to put them under.

Most of what Europeans have told us about Egypt is just crap. But when I encounter ancient paintings and sculptures depicting people from the Middle East and the North African littoral as non-Negroid, I know the African angle of the story isn't exactly accurate either.

Anyway, the thread is about Ijebu people. I shouldn't derail it further.

And who were the Berbers before admixture? The Tuaregs are also classified as "Berbers" and they're most blacks. Even Muammar Gaddafi alluded to this before his demise.

Also, today's "Moors" are called Caucasians/Arabs. However, Moor means black and most they were referred to as a Hamitic tribe, during ancient times.

The North American Review Volume 0139 Issue 334 (Sept 1884)
Title: Our Remote Ancestry [pp. 246-256]
Author: Winchell, Alexander, Prof.
Collection: Journals: North American Review (1815 - 1900)

^^^^Berbers were referred to as Hamitic people by those early American scholars.

Hannibal's coin:

[img]http://img842.ph.126.net/zburiafcQDiVwyVEbKxuqg==/1867867945453960630.jpg[/img]

That's a negro right there.

Radoillo, Shimexx, I'm delighted in your final truce and maturity. No one is foolish for believing what the other consider impossibe, and no 'institution' of belief is actually falling other than jealously held 'intellectual myths' that each of us religiously held dear. I believe that our ancestors came from the cradle crescent in the Middle east, I know I am 'wrong outright' to anyone that does not believe this, Terracotta and Radoillo especially. Please, kindly expose your very 'precept of biology' once and for all. Granted that you are right outright, how did we come to be? Radoillo, Terracotta, please respond in kind. Thanks.

[size=28pt]OYINBO + CHRISTIANITY = LIES![/size]

[size=28pt]ARE IGBOS JEWS?

ARE KANURIS IRAQIS?

ARE YORUBAS SAUDIS?

ARE HAUSAS PERSIANS?

LIE LIE LIE[/size]

shymexx: Hannibal's coin:

[img]http://img842.ph.126.net/zburiafcQDiVwyVEbKxuqg==/1867867945453960630.jpg[/img]

That's a negro right there.

HANNIBAL WAS A BERBER!

NOT A NEGRO!

let me think

omo ijebu to o sure nimi
ijebu aiyepe