I guess while Iambeing serious, you choose sarcasm.

If you are sinless

davidylan:

What sins by the way?

then good for you.

And what gives/gave you the impression that Muhammed(pbuh) was not sure of where he was going? This hadith is constantly quoted out of context.  He made a statement to impress upon muslims that he is HUMAN so that no mistake will be made and people will not start to worship him after he is gone.

To allay your doubts, I have added some verses from the Holy Quran.I hope it helps your understanding.

Surah Baqara 1-6

In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful
1. ALIF LAAM MIM
2. This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah
3. Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
4. And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.
5. They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper

ayinba1:

I guess while Iambeing serious, you choose sarcasm.

there was ABSOLUTELY no trace of sarcasm in my post which you have as usual cleverly skirted around but i'll remind you again.

ayinba1:

If you are sinless then good for you.

I never at any point claimed to be sinless . . . rather i asked a significant question - [size=13pt]what is the quranic definition of SIN? surely if islam acknowledges sin it must be because it is clearly spelt out in the quran not so?[/size]

ayinba1:

And what gives/gave you the impression that Muhammed(pbuh) was not sure of where he was going? This hadith is constantly quoted out of context. He made a statement to impress upon muslims that he is HUMAN so that no mistake will be made and people will not start to worship him after he is gone.

thanks for clarifying that, i hope you will speedily address the other issues.

ayinba1:

To allay your doubts, I have added some verses from the Holy Quran.I hope it helps your understanding.

Surah Baqara 1-6

In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful
1. ALIF LAAM MIM
2. This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah
3. Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
4. And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.
5. They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper

This says nothing, even the sango worshippers believe in a hereafter.

I ask again - [size=13pt]How does allah plan to remove my sins? A quranic verse will do.[/size]

What revelation was sent before mohammad's time?

@Theopops:

Ok, lets just say you are right about everything you typed, i.e, Omoawo, can you please answer the question. How come in the present day, read me well, in 21st century, when there is a case of people blowing up a place, it is always, lets be generous here and say 75% related to Islam?

You asked a very good question. During second world war, the young jewish group/Zionists bombed King David Hotel, in Palestine, so that the British can get out of it and they can slaughter the palestinian muslims and christians, on the way of raising the banner of Israel.

The terriorist group that carried this out against the stupid toothless british overseers of palestine at that time, included Ishak Shamir, Gurien, Manechem Begin, and others, including Perez!



The former rulers of Yugoslavia, who is now standing trial for crime against humanity slaughtered muslims without any thought that they are humans.

I watched a documentary on this in 1998. The muslims were killed primarily because of their religion then secondarily, maybe because of ethnicity.



Today, mass killing or illegal killing of a people is not only by suicide bombing alone. War on weaker people is also a process of doing the same thing.

I remember that I saw a You tube video series where the Afghani children were being schooled by the victors, as we speak that "Jesus is lord!"

Please watch them yourself under the Christian Missionary atrocities. t least thats the least you could do.

The american military men who came back from Iraq recounted horror stories; how they will barge into a house at night in a neighborhood and harasse the man, and agitate him by touching his women folks sexually.

They know that such a behavior will provoke this muslim man who they wanted to kill or carted away like an animal!

What about other even more terrible events which were on the news here? The raping of a young girl and the subsequent destruction of her entire family?



Shall we talk about Nigeria's Oil producing region unrest? I for one do empathised with the people who the national resources are gotten from them, yet they are left way behind without any tangible shares from it!

The government of Nigeria should be ashamed of herselg, in the way she has treated these Ogboni people!

But the people, especially the youth have made their case very hard bitter pill for many to align with them. They have resulted to terrorism, their own brand of it!



The issue is this, when most people are being persecuted, they think, almost all, in majority of conditions resort into almost always drastic reactionary measures. This is why you see many, okay alot more among the muslims.


I am very clear however that Islam is against suicide bombing and evil and unjustice actions toward anyone just because of their hatred toward you, or yours toward them.

@Davidylan:

If even mohammad wasnt sure at his death what allah would do to him how else can i be convinced? What sins by the way?

Muhammad (AS) knew his destination, before he died. And it aint Hellfire, but Paradise. He is the leader of those who will be in paradise.

He will enter paradise, count it, before, Adam, Enoch, Seth, Noah, Ibrahim, Ismail, Isiaq, Jacob who became Israel, Joseph, Moses, Aaron, Elijah, Elisha, Job, Jonah, David, Solomon, Zachariah, John, Jesus and all mankind.

Thats a guaranty from Allah the Almighty. The Qur'an declares that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.

Do you then think, in your heart of heart that Allah will not make His messenger a person of Paradise, when in Surah Kahf, the believing muslims, without the hypocrites are guaranteed Paradise. But the disbelivers, Kafirun are confirmed to be inmates of hellfire.

But in many parts of the Qur'an you will read that the muslim believers  will end up in Paradise, sitting facing each other on a flush cushion couches. You forgot the descriptions: "the gluttonic consumptions and unending sexual orgies."

David, you remeber you used to make fun of muslims who are looking forward to this islamic paradise. You see, I did not say heaven, because an name identification specific.

What is the quranic definition of sin? Please a verse would do?

A thing not good. A thing that is evil. Faisha. Example is Zina; adultery or fornication.
There is a verse in Surah Nisaa; Chapter 4. It says that one should not even come close to Zina because it is a thing evil, abhorrence. Thats Sinful.

How does allah remove sin? Please just one quranic verse would do?

By His Mercy. You ask for forgiveness: Astaghafirllah. Last verse of Surah Muminu verse 118, is a good example. Surah Nasr is a good example; there God says simply make request for forgiveness;wastagfiru and there will be acceptance; tawwaba!

There is no need to kill any thing for it. The easiest way to receive it. (Chapter 110).


David, Omo mi, when you have all these informations, you can't claim that the Muslims did not invite you.

Its not enough to just make claims, i want to know that indeed that is allah's plan for the muslim slave.

Now you know that we are slaves with greater privileges than you. or me, I talk to Allah the Almighty, without any patron or matron (Jesus and or his mother), before me. I simply obey Allah's injuctions on me and then I get His mercy. Can youmatch that.

I assumed that you knew what sin was but if you insist thatyoudonot know,I will make it short.

It is anything you do (thought, speech, action) that is opposed to what Allah has commanded you to do.

Or better put, it is to disobey Allah.

Allah is Forgiver, Most forgiving. If you ask Him forgive you,He will, again and again and again.

Quran 39:53] Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


What was sent before Mohammed---Messengers, prophets  and books. with a unique message of ONE GOD

Well if the verses that tell you of the assurance (note the word) means nothing to you,I really am not sure whatyou want.

@Brother Ola

Thank you for your contribution.

Salaam

@David: Whatever Allah says not to do, it is a sin. For example to say that He is One of the three is the sin. It is part of the greatest family of sin: Worshipping not Allah, alone. When He says not to kill unjustly, that is a sin. To severe the relation or ties of family, the womb that bores a person thats a sin.

@Ayinba1: David wants education. We should not be stingy about a thorough education for him.

Muhammad reported upon his return from Isra wa Miraj, that he saw the feet of Bilal ibn Rabah in paradise.


He also guaranteed the group of sahabahs known as "Ashra bashara (The ten guaranteed for paradise) paradise. All the sahaba who participated in the battle of badr were guaranteed paradise.

Read the verses concerning this battle in the Qur'an and the ahadith concerning it.

Lets make it easy for my dearest David. I got to make Asr. Its in already.

olabowale:

@David: Whatever Allah says not to do, it is a sin. For example to say that He is One of the three is the sin. It is part of the greatest family of sin: Worshipping not Allah, alone. When He says not to kill unjustly, that is a sin. To severe the relation or ties of family, the womb that bores a person thats a sin.

Olabowale . . . i didnt ask for references to the bible. Kindly stay on topic.
It is not EXPRESSLY mentioned, all you have both done so far is pick up just about any verse that happens to contain "forgive", "mercy" and "sins" in them. Note that what you are quoting is the english version that has been polished to now contain biblical words.

I want to know what the quran has to say SPECIALLY concerning sin and how it is forgiven just as the bible took the pains to do IF INDEED BOTH CAME FROM THE SAME GOD.

ayinba1:

I assumed that you knew what sin was but if you insist thatyoudonot know,I will make it short.

I know what sin is from the standpoint of the bible that is more than explicit on such an important subject. Dont assume i know anything about sin in the light of islam, i dont read the quran.

ayinba1:

It is anything you do (thought, speech, action) that is opposed to what Allah has commanded you to do.

Or better put, it is to disobey Allah.

that is your own opinion, pls kindly show me a verse that EXPRESSLY echoes this thought. pls note - just posting any verse because it contains "sin" as a word is not acceptable. No longer will we be moved around a merry-go-round of excuses.

ayinba1:

Allah is Forgiver, Most forgiving. If you ask Him forgive you,He will, again and again and again.

Quran 39:53] Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Allah is oft-forgiving of what? How does he forgive these sins? why? What if he forgives and i sin again? Is lying/al taqqiya a sin? Is murder of a non-muslim a sin?

ayinba1:

What was sent before Mohammed---Messengers, prophets and books. with a unique message of ONE GOD

Again another flippant answer essentially saying nothing new.
Which prophets?
None of the biblical prophets came with a message of ONE GOD . . . rather they were as guides to the jews teaching them to observe the laws and statutes of JEHOVAH (not merely one God).

Again, what books? Certainly not the bible that is corrupt since none of you can find the one you claimed allah sent.

So really what was sent?

ayinba1:

Well if the verses that tell you of the assurance (note the word) means nothing to you,I really am not sure whatyou want.

If you asked me that question from the bible i would have numerous verses that tell you IN DETAIL what kind of assurance you are to hope for, why and how to get it. Yours on the other hand is vague, has no meaning and is nothing i can hang any hope on.

Still waiting. We are in this together. I am sick of going to the airport, seeing someone all covered up and I am immediately praying that, that person is not getting into my plane. Yes, it is that bad. That is me, that my grandmother is muslim o. I have enough muslim cousins and uncles. So, I am not only interested in all the stories. I really want to know, how to tackle this problem. I seriously don't think the right winged muslims, are doing anything about it. All we have, is people trying to argue it out, using the corrupted book aka Bible.

Please, in ways someone can read and understand, can you please explain to us, why? Why for God's sake, will people hate others so much to want to kill them and themselves? I mean, if Islam is really peaceful, I think y'all need to be having conferences and talking about this issue. It doesn't seem to an outsider that, any of you want this to end.

@Davidylan: I do read Qur'an in Arabic. And I understand what i read. Alhamdulillah.

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:25:22 PM
@David: Whatever Allah says not to do, it is a sin. For example to say that He is One of the three is the sin. It is part of the greatest family of sin: Worshipping not Allah, alone. When He says not to kill unjustly, that is a sin. To severe the relation or ties of family, the womb that bores a person thats a sin.


Olabowale . . . i didnt ask for references to the bible. Kindly stay on topic.

If you thought that I quoted anything from the Bible, you are so very wrong. In Surah Al Maida which I read after Salatul ASr, because of its abundant blessings of protection against hunger, verses 72 and 73 talk about trinity and related matters:
005.072
YUSUFALI: They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.
005.073
YUSUFALI: They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

and verse 77 commanded the prophet (as) to warn the people of the book:
005.077
YUSUFALI: Say: "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way
004.157
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
004.170
YUSUFALI: O Mankind! The Messenger hath come to you in truth from Allah: believe in him: It is best for you. But if ye reject Faith, to Allah belong all things in the heavens and on earth: And Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
004.170
YUSUFALI: O Mankind! The Messenger hath come to you in truth from Allah: believe in him: It is best for you. But if ye reject Faith, to Allah belong all things in the heavens and on earth: And Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
004.172
YUSUFALI: Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).

It is not EXPRESSLY mentioned, all you have both done so far is pick up just about any verse that happens to contain "forgive", "mercy" and "sins" in them. Note that what you are quoting is the english version that has been polished to now contain biblical words.

You seem to be living in a relished delusion and deceit of your own conscience. David, be ko ni won she nse aiye.
005.077
YUSUFALI: Say: "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way

004.057
YUSUFALI: But those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal home: Therein shall they have companions pure and holy: We shall admit them to shades, cool and ever deepening.
004.064
YUSUFALI: We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
004.069
YUSUFALI: All who obey Allah and the messenger are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of Allah,- of the prophets (who teach), the sincere (lovers of Truth), the witnesses (who testify), and the Righteous (who do good): Ah! what a beautiful fellowship!
.004.087
YUSUFALI: Allah! There is no god but He: of a surety He will gather you together against the Day of Judgment, about which there is no doubt. And whose word can be truer than Allah's?
004.153
YUSUFALI: The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority.

017.032
YUSUFALI: Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).
017.033
YUSUFALI: Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).
017.034
YUSUFALI: Come not nigh to the orphan's property except to improve it, until he attains the age of full strength; and fulfil (every) engagement, for (every) engagement will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).

023.115
YUSUFALI: "Did ye then think that We had created you in jest, and that ye would not be brought back to Us (for account)?"
023.116
YUSUFALI: Therefore exalted be Allah, the King, the Reality: there is no god but He, the Lord of the Throne of Honour!
023.117
YUSUFALI: If anyone invokes, besides Allah, Any other god, he has no authority therefor; and his reckoning will be only with his Lord! and verily the Unbelievers will fail to win through!
023.118
YUSUFALI: So say: "O my Lord! grant Thou forgiveness and mercy for Thou art the Best of those who show mercy!"

110.001
YUSUFALI: When comes the Help of Allah, and Victory,
110.002
YUSUFALI: And thou dost see the people enter Allah's Religion in crowds,
110.003
YUSUFALI: Celebrate the praises of thy Lord, and pray for His Forgiveness: For He is Oft-Returning (in Grace and Mercy).

Note that what you are quoting is the english version that has been polished to now contain biblical words.

I want to know what the quran has to say SPECIALLY concerning sin and how it is forgiven just as the bible took the pains to do IF INDEED BOTH CAME FROM THE SAME GOD.

If I quoted the Arabic letters, would you have been able to read it? You an Ijebu man, you can even understand what grandpa and grandma say in Obanta language. Qur'an is pure, while your Bible is corrupted, hence you have Pauls and company and the apostles/disciples statements in addition to wha prophets said and what they were attahing to prophets and to God. They do not have the same source. YOu have 3 gods and we in Islam have ONE ALMIGHTY ALLAH.





@Theopops:

Still waiting. We are in this together. I am sick of going to the airport, seeing someone all covered up and I am immediately praying that, that person is not getting into my plane. Yes, it is that bad. That is me, that my grandmother is muslim o. I have enough muslim cousins and uncles. So, I am not only interested in all the stories. I really want to know, how to tackle this problem. I seriously don't think the right winged muslims, are doing anything about it. All we have, is people trying to argue it out, using the corrupted book aka Bible.

Dude, you never flown in an airplane before. Stop fronting. Your grandmothr and the rest of your family are muslims, yet you have the gull to criticize it!

You think I am using the Bible to explain anything? No sir. All of these are from the Qur'an. Search Quran and read all these chapters listed above.

I have to restrict myself, I would have been listing verses after another.

Uncle did you see my questions at all? which one of them had anything to do with the trinity or the "people of the book"? 

David,
I will continue quoting Surah Baqara:

6. Surely those who reject Faith it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them they will not believe.

7 Allah has set a seal upon their hearts, and upon their hearing, and upon their sight is a veil; and for them is a great chastisement.


8 And of mankind there are some who say: We believe in Allah and in the Future Day, but they are not at all Believers.

9 Feign would they deceive Allah and those who believe. But they do not deceive any except themselves, and they do not perceive.

10 In their hearts is a disease, so Allah increased to them the disease, and for them is a painful punishment because they used to belie.



And I recall clearly that you know about the Quran. If I start to post verses here that tell what sins are, it will take up a lot of space. The truth is if you read the Quran on your own (fear not, it does not bite), you will find verses talking about specifics; the worst of sins would be associating partners with Allah.

No David, I will not be quoting any more verses for you since I know you are a smart kid and will see it only if Allah wills it.

@thepops,

Please continue to be afraid when you see a woman in hijab. Do you think anyone here is impressed that you are from a muslim background?  Surprise though, your grandma never thought to hurt you or your parent? But then maybe she did for the mere fact that she is a muslim. And your uncles, cousins etc, I bet you shiver anytime you see them. Your case is “aja toma sonu, kaa gbo fere ode”. You are not really seeking solutions and you know it. Why don’t you profer one suggestion if you are indeed truthful.

Davidyland.

what is the quranic definition of SIN?

Quran is not a dictionary were you can find such description of sin but rather it’s speak about sins. If you like I can give you a lots of passages in the Quran talk about sin.

surely if islam acknowledge sin it must be because it is clearly spelt out in the quran not so?

I repeat Quran is not a Webster dictionary.

How does allah plan to remove my sins?

Allah doesn’t perform surgery to removed such Sin embedded in your heart. I donot know what kind of people is this? Are they serious about this kind of Question? I think we must go back to a kindergarten school to learn more.

ayinba1:

David,
I will continue quoting Surah Baqara:

6. Surely those who reject Faith it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them they will not believe.

7 Allah has set a seal upon their hearts, and upon their hearing, and upon their sight is a veil; and for them is a great chastisement.


8 And of mankind there are some who say: We believe in Allah and in the Future Day, but they are not at all Believers.

9 Feign would they deceive Allah and those who believe. But they do not deceive any except themselves, and they do not perceive.

10 In their hearts is a disease, so Allah increased to them the disease, and for them is a painful punishment because they used to belie.

Its funny that you have plenty of time and space to post the above and YET cant find "space" to post the VERY ones that i ask you.

[size=13pt]- what is the concept of SIN in the quran?
- How does allah forgive sins? What happens if i sin again after "forgiveness"?[/size]

If you can find the above why is it so hard to find the one i ask? Olabowale found "time" and "space" to post plenty of unrelated verses . . . where is the one i ask?

ayinba1:

And I recall clearly that you know about the Quran.

That is no excuse. Even though i am well aware you know about the bible i still take the time to painstakingly show you the bible when you and your ilk start posting nonsense about it.

ayinba1:

If I start to post verses here that tell what sins are, it will take up a lot of space.

puerile typical islamic excuse. You found "space" to post a completely irrelevant 5 verses earlier but cant find "space" to post just 2-3 verses on the relevant subject?

ayinba1:

The truth is if you read the Quran on your own (fear not, it does not bite), you will find verses talking about specifics; the worst of sins would be associating partners with Allah.

Since you've been reading it all i ask is that you just post 2-3 showing me SPECIFICS about the quran's ideas about what sin entails, is a baby born last week a sinner? Is a 10 yr old child who takes meat from his mother's pot accountable as a sinner? What is the quran's concept of forgiveness?

Why is it so hard to produce those verses?

ayinba1:

No David, I will not be quoting any more verses for you since I know you are a smart kid and will see it only if Allah wills it.

typical islamic escape route. What a shame. The same people have no qualms posting countless irrelevant bible verses.

samba123:

Davidyland.

Quran is not a dictionary were you can find such description of sin but rather it’s speak about sins. If you like I can give you a lots of passages in the Quran talk about sin.

This is rubbish. Is it possible for a textbook/manual to speak about evolution without clearly defining what evolution means? Every textbook or spiritual book you see today clearly defines what its central concepts are about without being a dictionary.

If sin will keep an individual out of "heaven" why is the quran curiously silent on WHAT SIN TRULY IS? The quran speaks about sins but does it tell you WHY those things constitute a sin?

samba123:

I repeat Quran is not a Webster dictionary.

That is no excuse mr. Your physics textbook clearly defined what motion was before going on to describe it. Its not a webster's dictionary either. When next you want to give an excuse make it slightly more cerebral.

samba123:

Allah doesn’t perform surgery to removed such Sin embedded in your heart. I donot know what kind of people is this? Are they serious about this kind of Question? I think we must go back to a kindergarten school to learn more.

How then does allah remove sin? Kindly show us in the quran.

Its amazing that people can follow a religion when they dont even know its most important principles.

Surah 2 Baqara v 6-10

They apply to you and people like you. You are too "smart" for your own good. Everyone else is "foolish" to you.

Remember again, "any one with even an atom of pride in his heart will not enter aljannah"

I will not post verses from the Quran telling you what sin is, David, because you are really not interested.

You just want to pick a fight.

And please, ease up. Your typing is akin to "foaming at the (sides of) the mouth"

Ko le to yen

ayinba1:

I will not post verses from the Quran telling you what sin is, David, because you are really not interested.

- Well very poor excuse, just post them and it sufficeth us. you've posted close to 10 unrelated verses now, surely it cant be that hard to post JUST ONE on the topic is it?

No David

You are a "smart" kid, Read the Quran if you really want to know.

I believe we Muslims should try to educate each other about the position of the Catholic Church about us.

The Cathecism of the Catholic Church (CCC) paragraph 841 reads thus:

The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

CCC is the Catholic Church's doctrines and their intepretation of what the bible and their faith is all about. It is amazing that being Catholic also means you must believe that Muslims are destined for paradise, judging from the article above. Meanwhile those who have little or no knowlege of their Catholic faith go around preaching to Muslims to convert. I will have to ask 'Convert so that what?' Since Catholic faith believes we are Paradise bound, I expect them to only praise Muslims and encourage them to continue in the path of Islam.

You can get the full text of the CCC from Vatican follow this Url http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc/index.htm.

----------
I would have preferred to post this as a new topic but I could not locate New Topic button. I just joined the forum about 3 days ago and I did in order to post my contribution on Islam and Violence.

@Davidylan:

Uncle did you see my questions at all? which one of them had anything to do with the trinity or the "people of the book"?

Trinity is example of worshipping other than Allah. This is my example of sin. Your question was about sin, aint it?

You wanted a way of forgiveness. I presented the God commanded people to follow His Messenger, a way of guidance, forgiveness. A mercy.

Davidyland

I know what sin is from the standpoint…

them its obvious to explained what sin it is period.

please kindly show me a verse that EXPRESSLY echoes this thought

.

These are the verses speak about the Sin I just put few of them.

Chapter 3: 135 and those who, when they do an evil thing or wrong themselves, remember Allah and implore forgiveness for their Sins. Who forgiveth Sins save Allah only?. And will not knowingly repeat (the wrong) they did.

Chapter 4:2 Give unto orphans their wealth. Exchange not the good for the bad(inyour management thereof) nor absorb their wealth into your own wealth. Lo! That would be a great Sin.


Chapter 4:48 Lo! Allah forgiveth not that a partner should be ascribed unto Him. He forgiveth (all) save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners to Allah, he hath indeed invented a tremendous Sin.

Chapter 4: 50 See, how they invent Lies about Allah! That of itself is flagrant SIN.

Chapter 4: 111
Whose committeth sin committeth it only against himself. Allah is ever knower, wise.

Chapter 5:62 and thou seest many of them vying one with another in SIN and transgression and their devouring of[b] illicit gain.[/b] Verily evil is what they do.

Chapter 17: 31 slay not your children, fearing a fall to poverty, we shall provide for them and you . lo! The slaying of them is great SIN.

Chapter 24: 11 Lo! They who spread the slander are a gang among you. Deem it not a bad thing for you; say,it is good for you. Unto every man of them will be paid that which he hath earned of the Sin; and as for him among them who had the greater share therein, his will be an awful doom.

Chapter 33:58 and those who malign believing men and believing women undeservedly, they bear the guilt of slander and manifest Sin.

Just posting any verse because it contains "sin" as a word is not acceptable…,

see how he contradicted himself here on the other question he asked.

how we can get through this point if you are not accepting any verses/passages in the Quran. You’re contradicting your question, on the other hand you will not accepts any of those thing mention in the Quran. What else do you like to show us here if you do not want any answer from the Quran, which is the most fundamental principle of the Muslims theology nothing to Argue anymore.

davidylan:

This is rubbish. Is it possible for a textbook/manual to speak about evolution without clearly defining what evolution means? Every textbook or spiritual book you see today clearly defines what its central concepts are about without being a dictionary.

then you want us to change the content of the Quran ? and turn it like a textbook with terminology and meaning each word or phrase therein. the textbook or spiritual book of manmade cannot be compare to Quran, because Quran comprises of chapters and verses as compare to those standard/classical book.

If sin will keep an individual out of "heaven" why is the quran curiously silent on WHAT SIN TRULY IS? The quran speaks about sins but does it tell you WHY those things constitute a sin?

You re a Christian/Catholic you find such concept like that in you mind. Quran are not silencing about Sin it speak about Sins and no sins. how could you label such thing if you are quessing in your own thought without any knowledge or without reading the entire Verses.

That is no excuse mr. Your physics textbook clearly defined what motion was before going on to describe it. Its not a webster's dictionary either. When next you want to give an excuse make it slightly more cerebral.

Avoiding such allegation like that are useless and I repeat our Quran is not Physics, mathematic, science, or philosophy take it or leave it.

How then does allah remove sin? Kindly show us in the quran.

Chapter 40:55 then have patience (o Muhammad) lo! The promise of Allah is true. And ask forgiveness of they Sin, and hymn the praise of thy Lord at fall of night and in the early hours.

simple and understandable no need to take a translator/interpretation. if you do not know how Muslims praise Allah (swt) I can give you some like
1. Alhamdullillah
2. Subhana Allah
3. Allahu Akbar
4.Astagfirullah

Its amazing that people can follow a religion when they don't even know its most important principles.

that is want you think! what I think is not the same us you like it. and I know you're style lol.

@Davidylan

Babs787 claimed he was coming to give a response (of course we are still waiting) but ONLY promising to do so "IN THE LIGHT OF THE BIBLE". Now what has the bible to do with the topic?

Please what other "responses" have i missed

?

I truly said that but have been busy putting things in order and you should have known that Babs doesnt run from threads. Besides, I read through this thread and found that answers have been provided. So tell me what else you need?

I am happy that my old man accepted Islam before his death and died as a MUSLIM as well. I can see that my brothers and sisters (in which I am proud of them) have dealt greatly with your questions here but would come in when there is need for me to.

samba123:

Chapter 4: 111
Whose committeth sin committeth it only against himself. Allah is ever knower, wise.

Going through the rest of the garbage you pple come up with is a waste of time. Just look at the contradiction you have above. . .

If indeed sin is ONLY against yourself then why is Allah bothering to forgive them? Kindly explain.

Davidyland

please kindly show me a verse that EXPRESSLY echoes this thought

He Asked

I know what sin is from the standpoint…

He knowed

Just posting any verse because it contains "sin" as a word is not acceptable…,

He contradict / disagree

Going through the rest of the garbage you people come up with is a waste of time. Just look at the contradiction you have above. . .

He trashed

If indeed sin is ONLY against yourself then why is Allah bothering to forgive them? Kindly explain

He ask again to explain? For what! To oppose and junk,? it’s a futile argument they think we are not capable to do something we do not believe.

Samba when next you want to quote, do not so out of hypocrisy . . . here is what i TRULY said

I know sin from the standpoint of the bible

why did you man of deciet deliberately omit the last 3 words?

I asked a valid question, its ok to say you are confused.

@Samba

Thank you for your patience in explaining David,

I thinklhe's about to start bawling like the baby that he is.

@David,

pele o, but then Samba gave a concise presentation of "you" and you just know it.

I still invite you though, come to Islam, cmoe to peace and give your heart rest

ayinba1:

@Samba

Thank you for your patience in explaining David,

I thinklhe's about to start bawling like the baby that he is.

@David,

pele o, but then Samba gave a concise presentation of "you" and you just know it.

I still invite you though, come to Islam, cmoe to peace and give your heart rest

hehe see this ludicrous hypocrites, slaves and decietful people. Thanking Samba for rambling incoherently while deliberately misquoting others to say something they never said?

Al taqqiya is truly alive and well.

Madam, i'm not coming to islam . . . there is no peace there. If you're in doubt pls take one look at Gaza, Sudan and Lebanon.
There is no rest in islam . . . if there were you'd calmly explain the questions we put before you rather than artful dodging, hypocritically dancing around the issue and clapping deliberate deciet.

@ David, I finally knw why u dnt want to be Muslim, because there's no peace in Gaza, Lebanone. Is there peace in Niger Delta, Zimbabwe, liberia & dey are xtians like u. Why cant u say there's no peace in Brunei & Saudi Arabia? Man, u're not an adult. I dnt expect that kind of statement from you at all. I'll keepon saying one thing, U can never and ever give me a good reason for not accepting Islam.

davidyland

Samba when next you want to quote, do not so out of hypocrisy . . . here is what i TRULY said

I know sin from the standpoint of the bible
why did you man of deciet deliberately omit the last 3 words?
I asked a valid question, its ok to say you are confused.

Then only in your book you know what Sin therein. It is obvious to explain that a person like you are born yesterday that do not know what the meaning of the Sin. Wait are you a little child born yesterday? It appears to me you like a Sinless person who do not know what Sin is it. Much for you hyper perched duplicity lol.


Ayinda just like to voice out what he really think about you lol. If you’re professional and decent person you should say something “ for the sake of discussion or‘go on’ or you may disagree/agree giving your own assertion do you think its difficult to say like that. Uuh maybe possibly not :

elctroguru:

@ David, I finally knw why u dnt want to be Muslim, because there's no peace in Gaza, Lebanone.

There is no safety in islam, no assured hope for eternity . . . all you have is shahids, intolerance, extremism, violence and outrage. No thank you.

elctroguru:

Is there peace in Niger Delta, Zimbabwe, liberia & dey are xtians like u.

That is foolish. Is everyone in Zimbabwe or Liberia a christian? Where they fighting a religious conflict?
Stay on point, this silly muslim tactic of just pulling any nonsense from the air to defend the indefensible only makes you people look more foolish and vulnerable.

elctroguru:

Why can't u say there's no peace in Brunei & Saudi Arabia?

Brunei - awash with petrodollars they dont know what to do with it.
Saudi Arabia - Very silly example - they are well known for openly funding their extreme form of wahhabist islam and are headiing precipitously towards a confrontation with Iran. So much for "peace".

elctroguru:

Man, u're not an adult. I dnt expect that kind of statement from you at all. I'll keepon saying one thing, You can never and ever give me a good reason for not accepting Islam.

There is one cogent reason - the quran itself.

@Davidylan:

« #62 on: Today at 05:25:01 PM »
There is no safety in islam, no assured hope for eternity . . . all you have is shahids, intolerance, extremism, violence and outrage. No thank you.

Since there is no gaurring of an innocent man to death, as it "occurred in the case of Jesus and Christianity," it simply means muslims are not going to Jannah. David is a funny man. You got jokes, man. jannah is meant for your Keferi heart, you think. Please stop that noise making. Surah Kahf (the cave) spoke extensively about Jannah for muslims and Jahanam for dis believers; eg Jews, Christians, Hindus, atheists, etc.


[Quote]
That is foolish. Is everyone in Zimbabwe or Liberia a christian? Where they fighting a religious conflict?
Stay on point, this silly muslim tactic of just pulling any nonsense from the air to defend the indefensible only makes you people look more foolish and vulnerable.
[/quote]

Pakistan has hindu population, though insignificant. Stay on point, man. The whole of spanish south african countries are predominantly Christians. Italy with all his Red Beret killing machines of the 70s, and now its notoriously mafioso identity is Christianity. Next door to is the ancient Vatican city. Italy was the seat of Christianity, long time before the neuvous Protestants. Your silliness is terrible. Let me leave African Christians alone and talk about the west that i know so much about. Ha, Brazil, is a Christian country and the killing in that country is scary, yet they have not started any war.


[Quote]
Brunei - awash with petrodollars they don't know what to do with it.
Saudi Arabia - Very silly example - they are well known for openly funding their extreme form of wahhabist islam and are headiing precipitously towards a confrontation with Iran. So much for "peace".
[/quote]

Nigeria is also awash with petrodollar, or Euro. Obasanjo was the president, just the other day. And under Gowon, Nigeria found herself in a civil war which was a product of the of huge egos between two Christian eccentrics; Gowon and Ojukwu. In this horrible time, which lasted for 30 months, Victoria, from Asaba was married to Gowon of Yola or some place like that. Please stick to what you know. America fought a civil war while they all claimed Christianity. And before that they fought many Christian countries; England for her indenpendence, Mexico so that it can annexed many more fronteiring lands.


[Quote]
There is one cogent reason - the quran itself.
[/quote]

Wrong answer. Your bad heart is the only cogent reason. You know it and I, having the casual relationship with you, know it, too.