@Royll, i dont read your post, you know why? Because your first paragraph is always full of bulls.hit. You dont know who the jews are, if you do you will keep the laws according to what you just wrote up there. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70A.d so heaven and earth has past like that right? . You dont know what happened in 70A.D, you went to a whitemans website to copy that s.hit. I have read all those 70A.D destruction rubbish. This is a topic for another day.

haibe:

That's true, theologians divide them for easy understanding but before God the law is taken as a whole, you break one, you break all and are guilty of its judgement.

Yes the laws is taken as a whole. But Hebrews 10 and the old testament tells you the Sacrificial law is gone because Christ replaced it with his blood.

MEILYN: That was why Christ died, for forgiveness of sins when you break the law, you cant keep all....

So you even know you can't keep all and yet you hold unto it like you can be righteous by it, smh.

Even though good works are essential for the
Christian, they cannot be used to secure the
righteousness God requires. A Christian’s salvation
comes “not by works of righteousness which we have
done” (Titus 3:5), nor does it come even by trying
to obey the law on our own (Galatians 2:21).
Indeed, Paul shows that the righteousness of God
is manifested “without the law” (Romans 3:21) and
it comes “to him that works not” (Romans 4:5). The
apostle Paul writes about a “righteousness without
works” (Romans 4:6).

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of
God : for if righteousness [come] by the law, then
Christ is dead in vain.

You cannot be declared righteous by obeying the law bro, our righteousness is imputed into us, its the righteousness by faith



“Knowing that man is not justified by the works of
the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we
have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be
justified by the faith of Jesus Christ, and not by
the works of the law.”

MEILYN: Yes the laws is taken as a whole. But Hebrews 10 and the old testament tells you the Sacrificial law is gone because Christ replaced it with his blood.

The bible tells us the law is gone, not just sacrificial.

haibe:

So you even know you can't keep all and yet you hold unto it like you can be righteous by it, smh.

Even though good works are essential for the
Christian, they cannot be used to secure the
righteousness God requires. A Christian’s salvation
comes “not by works of righteousness which we have
done” (Titus 3:5), nor does it come even by trying
to obey the law on our own (Galatians 2:21).
Indeed, Paul shows that the righteousness of God
is manifested “without the law” (Romans 3:21) and
it comes “to him that works not” (Romans 4:5). The
apostle Paul writes about a “righteousness without
works” (Romans 4:6).

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of
God : for if righteousness [come] by the law, then
Christ is dead in vain.

You cannot be declared righteous by obeying the law bro, our righteousness is imputed into us, its the righteousness by faith



“Knowing that man is not justified by the works of
the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we
have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be
justified by the faith of Jesus Christ, and not by
the works of the law.”

now i see. Copy and paste from the white man thats what is deceiving you. I dont even understand your post.

MEILYN: now i see. Copy and paste from the white man thats what is deceiving you. I dont even understand your post.

do you expect me to start typing bible verses or what? I don't have the time bro. Read again and understand.

haibe:

The bible tells us the law is gone, not just sacrificial.

quote the bible, dont just tell us with your mouth. I see why you dont understand the bible.

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever." (Psalm 111:10).<<< a good understanding have all they that keep His commandments. You dont keep His commandments. I see. Love Love Love right? You dont even know what love is

MEILYN: quote the bible, dont just tell us with your mouth. I see why you dont understand the bible.

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever." (Psalm 111:10).<<< a good understanding have all they that keep His commandments. You dont keep His commandments. I see. Love Love Love right? You dont even know what love is

Maybe you need to start from page 1 to see all the verses I quoted, I can't keep repeating myself.

The bible.never said only the sacrificial law is gone, it says the law is gone.

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" (Titus 3:5).<<< you dont understand this verse, not by works of sacrificing lambs which we have been doing we Christ came to save us but according to his mercy we are saved, meaning, Christ didnt come to save us because of our works but because of his mercy. What does mercy mean, it means grace? Jesus died to save us from sin. That is the mercy. He didnt die to abolish the law. You quote scriptures without understanding why the author said what he said.

haibe:

Maybe you need to start from page 1 to see all the verses I quoted, I can't keep repeating myself.

The bible.never said only the sacrificial law is gone, it says the law is gone.

And i have proved to you the laws Paul was talking about. But you agreed Hebrews was talking about another law?

MEILYN: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" (Titus 3:5).<<< you dont understand this verse, not by works of sacrificing lambs which we have been doing we are saved but according to his mercy we are saved, meaning, now we can be saved by just confessing our sins. What does mercy mean, it means grace? Jesus died to save us from sin. That is the mercy. He didnt die to abolish the law. You quote scriptures without understanding why the author said what he said.

I can't help but laugh at the way you twist scriptures to support your opinion

MEILYN: And i have proved to you the laws Paul was talking about. But you agreed Hebrews was talking about another law?

The old covenant is the the whole laws governing the jews, its not just the sacrifial laws bro. Infact there is no where the bible divided those laws into moral and sacrificial, this is just man made

haibe:

I can't help but laugh at the way you twist scriptures to support your opinion

Nah, i dont twist scriptures. I just use the present to explain the old and the old to explain the present. Ok now. Case closed since you dont wanna be the light of the world, i wont force you to believe bro.

haibe:

The old covenant is the the whole laws governing the jews, its not just the sacrifial laws bro. Infact there is no where the bible divided those laws into moral and sacrificial, this is just man made

You are wrong, there are different type of Laws, i dont wanna goto that. Christ said do not sacrifice those things anymore, tell me where Christ said you shouldnt keep the law?

"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." (Galatians 2:21).<< for if righteousness come by sacrificing goats and lamb, then Christ is dead in vain.

Now, i will stop with wait Christ said.

"If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. " (John 15:22)..<< for if i had not come and say these things unto you people, then you guys will be free from sin, but now you peeps have no excuse for transgressing the law.

A sinful man will not be reproved, but findeth an excuse according to his will. Ecclesiasticus 32:17 a sinful man will not be corrected, but he finds an accuse according to his will.

"They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them." (Proverbs 28:4).

"He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination." (Proverbs 28:9).

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." (Proverbs 28:13).<<this verse explains why Christ died, he that make excuses for breaking the law shall not prosper, but he that confesses and forsake the transgression of the law shall have mercy. That is the only way you will have mercy. Now you see? Everything in the New Testament is from the Old Testament, New Testament just explains the old testament. If you dont read the Old you can never understand the new.

Goodbye guys.

MEILYN: you are very wrong. You dont read the bible, you read what people tell you to read. Read this thread from the beginning.

How many times will I read my bible to change James 2:10? That statement there is non negotiable pal. In short you are cursed, if you miss one.

For all those who depend upon works of law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is every one that does not continue in all the things written in the scroll of the Law in order to do them.

Moreover, that by law no one is declared righteous with God is evident, because “the righteous one will live by reason of faith.” Gal. 3:10, 11.

No amount of reading will change that. So your division only exists you guy's mind not the bible.

JMAN05:

How many times will I read my bible to change James 2:10? That statement there is non negotiable pal. In short you are cursed, if you miss one.

For all those who depend upon works of law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is every one that does not continue in all the things written in the scroll of the Law in order to do them.

Moreover, that by law no one is declared righteous with God is evident, because “the righteous one will live by reason of faith.” Gal. 3:10, 11.

No amount of reading will change that. So your division only exists you guy's mind not the bible.

you are crazy, u know why i saaid so? Because you are ignorant, you are also a lier. Now i can show you where christ said sacrificial laws should be stopped. Now show me where christ said the moral laws should be stoped. If you cant show me, then remain silent for ever. And you dont understand that verse.

haibe:


Just answer the question please.

Answer mine, there is a reason for it, you might find your answers in that.

trustman: Bidam: Ok. was genesis written by Moses?


This is how Bidam typically tries to evade issues. once he knows that his answer will 'put him at risk' of his held position he quickly look for an 'escape route' which characteristically is to refuse to directly answer a question or respond to clear statement.

hehehe.. i laff in tongues..Since you jumped on board the gravy train why not help him answer the question TROLL.

MEILYN: @Royll, i dont read your post, you know why? Because your first paragraph is always full of bulls.hit. You dont know who the jews are, if you do you will keep the laws according to what you just wrote up there. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70A.d so heaven and earth has past like that right? . You dont know what happened in 70A.D, you went to a whitemans website to copy that s.hit. I have read all those 70A.D destruction rubbish. This is a topic for another day.

Don't even bother reading it. It was a copy and paste article.. People don't read the bible they love to copy strange ideas and doctrines.SMH!

Bidam: Answer mine, there is a reason for it, you might find your answers in that.

How many of your questions do you want me to answer before answering mine, pls answer with a simple yes or no.

Do you keep the law of moses?

Bidam: hehehe.. i laff in tongues..Since you jumped on board the gravy train why not help him answer the question TROLL.

Is this guy a joke?

I asked you a question and you replied me with a question, I then answered the question and said you should answer mine, you answered with a question again. You should be a comedian oo.

Don't think I will answer your second question without you answering my first.

MEILYN: And i have proved to you the laws Paul was talking about. But you agreed Hebrews was talking about another law?

Yeah.. the book of hebrews explained so many points Paul was talking about. I don't blame this folks really, the orthodox Christians were anti-Jewish if you go through history,they feel since the Jews killed Christ they were to be persecuted..Lemme quote a history story for you to see.

In the Middle Ages Antisemitism in Europe was religious. Though not part of Roman Catholic dogma, many Christians, including members of the clergy, have held the Jewish people collectively responsible for killing Jesus, a practice originated by Melito of Sardis. As stated in the Boston College Guide to Passion Plays, "Over the course of time, Christians began to accept … that the Jewish people as a whole were responsible for killing Jesus. According to this interpretation, both the Jews present at Jesus Christ's death and the Jewish people collectively and for all time, have committed the sin of deicide, or "god-killing". For 1900 years of Christian-Jewish history, the charge of deicide has led to hatred, violence against and murder of Jews in Europe and America."[3]

During the High Middle Ages in Europe there was full-scale persecution in many places, with blood libels, expulsions, forced conversions and massacres. An underlying source of prejudice against Jews in Europe was religious. Jews were frequently massacred and exiled from various European countries. The persecution hit its first peak during the Crusades. In the First Crusade (1096) flourishing communities on the Rhine and the Danube were utterly destroyed; see German Crusade, 1096. In the Second Crusade (1147) the Jews in France were subject to frequent massacres. The Jews were also subjected to attacks by the Shepherds' Crusades of 1251 and 1320. The Crusades were followed by expulsions, including in, 1290, the banishing of all English Jews; in 1396, 100,000 Jews were expelled from France; and, in 1421 thousands were expelled from Austria. Many of the expelled Jews fled to Poland.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

So you can understand so many different translations on the torah to mean the mosaic laws, these guys hate the jewish laws and tried to introduce their pagan laws into Christianity. Even during Paul's era they were Hellenistic false teachers who wanted to introduce heretical doctrines into the church and that was why John told his disciples to beware of those folks who gives them a false assurance of salvation. JW are even the worst lot in this case because they even deny the deity of Christ.

Let me share a revelation i got from 1 JOHN 2 yesterday as i was studying the bible.

1 John 2:7-8

The Message (MSG)

7-8 My dear friends, I’m not writing anything new here. This is the oldest commandment in the book, and you’ve known it from day one. It’s always been implicit in the Message you’ve heard . On the other hand, perhaps it is new, freshly minted as it is in both Christ and you—the darkness on its way out and the True Light already blazing!

Hear John saying here that this LAW(commandment) is nothing anything new o.. The pharisee were morally blind to it but when Jesus came the veil was removed and the Apostle could see it that was why it was NEW to them but in a sense it wasn't new since God has been shouting it from the very beginning.

As for those ignorant folks here who quote James out of context ..THIS IS WHAT JAMES IS ACTUALLY SAYING IN CONTEXT.


James 2:8-11 (PHILLIPS)

8-11 If you obey the royal law, expressed by the scripture, ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself’, all is well. But once you allow any invidious distinctions to creep in, you are sinning, you have broken God’s Law. Remember that a man who keeps the whole Law but for a single exception is none the less a law-breaker. The one who said, ‘Do not commit adultery’, also said, ‘Do not murder’. If you were to keep clear of adultery but were to murder a man you would have become a breaker of God’s whole Law.

@Bidam and Meilyn

What is the essence of keeping the law of Moses in its entirety?

A) for salvation

B) because we love God

C) it seem morally right to do

Bidam:
Even you yourself quoted that we should not be lawless,so what is to guide our code and conduct as believers? certainly the bible, if not people would be doing all sort of rubbish all in the name of The Holy Spirit, people have already started advocating for premarital sex, masturbation, gay marriages etc all in the name that it is not found in the NT and is therefore not a sin,some will even be bold to tell you it is the Holy Spirit that instruct them to do such.

Good good, you're getting my point now. Can we live without "the law"? Why not?
The law came in the time of moses after several years and generations have passed. there was no law, yet the people knew the standard for right and wrong. Same way today, we are not under the law, and that does not mean we dont have a manual to look into to discern what is rght or wrong.
The issue in the NT is, its not that there is not a law, but saints are not "under" it. we are not under its yoke anymore.

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Bidam:

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Are we abolishing Moses' Teachings by this faith? That's unthinkable! Rather, we are supporting Moses' Teachings.Romans 3:31


Unlike what you guys are advocating here that we should throw away the OT, PAUL IS SAYING THAT IS UNTHINKABLE.Everything in scripture is actually written for our example so we will not stumble,due to ignorance and unbelief. The whole bible(both OT and NT) is our constitution and our manual for life.

I'm sorry i assumed that English is simple. 'll rewrite that again for you in KJV
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
or even in your GWT, He is not saying we should return to the law of moses to try to keep it because that will contradict all he has been saying since the beginin of the chapter. He is saying, by the way of faith, we ESTABLISH the law. that is, faith=law established. many have twisted that verse to be saying this: "SHOULD we then cancel the law becos of faith?". but this is what it says: "DO (not should) we then make void (that is nullify the purpose, essence and aim of) the law through (by the means of) faith? God forbid (or certainly not, as used in NKJV), yea, we establish the law"
That iis, the very essence of the law is fulfilled when a man turns to Christ, for "Christ is the fulfillment of Moses' Teachings so that everyone who has faith may receive God's approval." (Romans 10:4 Gods Word Translatn).
When you believed in Christ, you didn't (not shouldnt) render the law null and void, rather, you uphold, establish, the law.

MEILYN: bro, good point, very true. What does it mean to be Holy? What is Holiness?

"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." (Romans 7:12). the law is holy, if you aint keeping the laws you cant be holy. You have spoken well.

brother of God, ha! i feel u o
you didnt read the next verse: Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Now let me explain this verse Goshen and His folks are misquoting.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" (Ephesians 2:8 ).<<when we transgress the Law, it is by faith in Christ we are saved and not of ourselves, meaning we cant save ourselves with Sacrifices anymore, but with faith in Christ we are saved.

Now what do you think grace is? Let me give you an example.

When we were young, still in school, anytime we break the laws, there is a punishment attached to each law. When you break the law, your teacher will come and tell you to fetch water or something. Now someone comes and says, anytime you break the law, you dont have to fetch water anymore, he will start fetching the water for you, only if you are not a hypocrite, only if you will tell him what you have done, confess with your mouth, and start keeping the laws without breaking it on purpose. That is grace, when you keep the laws, anytime you break it, you dont have to fetch water anymore[works of the law], you just have to admit what you did and repent from it. Salvation is no longer of ourselves but by faith. Simple.

This is what you peeps dont understand.

MEILYN:
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. " (Matthew 5:27-28).

Christ also came to abolish the sacrificial laws. Not morals, he came to correct morals.

funny enuf, these law guys dont keep the laws they advocate o. Moses' law was so difficult, so Jesus came to increase the yoke. how many times av you lustfully consider a pretty girl and after that you pluck out the eyes as Jesus COMMANDED? how many times hav u cut the hand that made you sin as in the magnifed law of Christ? you just replied people harshly here, whereas Jesus said u shd turn the other cheek if one slaps you.
well! heaven is real! hell is real! choose where you want, 'cause i perceiive you hav not yet accepted the Lordship of Jesus, the one on whom we trust and make heaven. saved by grace alone says one of our hyms,. another says, t is enuf that Jesus died. another: In Chrst ALONE my hope is found. keep the modiifed moral laws, okay? but i know that "by the deeds of the law shall no flesh b justfied"

kayuseful:

brother of God, ha! i feel u o
you didnt read the next verse: Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

that is not the next verse. Smh. You are a deceiver. Now what does the verse you quoted mean? But before that, here is the next verse.

"Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." (Romans 7:13).<< this is the next verse. Was then that which is good made make me sin? Godforbid. No No No.

Something you dont understand is, this is Paul talking about his past, when he wasnt in Christ. Read in context brother.

MEILYN: Now let me explain this verse Goshen and His folks are misquoting.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" (Ephesians 2:8 ).<<when we transgress the Law, it is by faith in Christ we are saved and not of ourselves, meaning we cant save ourselves with Sacrifices anymore, but with faith in Christ we are saved.

Now what do you think grace is? Let me give you an example.

When we were young, still in school, anytime we break the laws, there is a punishment attached to each law. When you break the law, your teacher will come and tell you to fetch water or something. Now someone comes and says, anytime you break the law, you dont have to fetch water anymore, he will start fetching the water for you, only if you are not a hypocrite, only if you will tell him what you have done, confess with your mouth, and start keeping the laws without breaking it on purpose. That is grace, when you keep the laws, anytime you break it, you dont have to fetch water anymore[works of the law], you just have to admit what you did and repent from it. Salvation is no longer of ourselves but by faith. Simple.

This is what you peeps dont understand.

Now, I can see you don't understand Grace neither do you understand the law you advocate. None of them you understand. You are not ready for discussion hence, you just ranting and say people don't understand this\that. You that understand it, explain; you can't even explain but scriptures quoting out of context here and there. If you're going to discuss with yourself, fine but if you want to discuss with others, let line be upon line and precept upon precept and let us follow the discussion in a straight manner.

kayuseful:

funny enuf, these law guys dont keep the laws they advocate o. Moses' law was so difficult, so Jesus came to increase the yoke. how many times av you lustfully consider a pretty girl and after that you pluck out the eyes as Jesus COMMANDED? how many times hav u cut the hand that made you sin as in the magnifed law of Christ? you just replied people harshly here, whereas Jesus said u shd turn the other cheek if one slaps you.
well! heaven is real! hell is real! choose where you want, 'cause i perceiive you hav not yet accepted the Lordship of Jesus, the one on whom we trust and make heaven. saved by grace alone says one of our hyms,. another says, t is enuf that Jesus died. another: In Chrst ALONE my hope is found. keep the modiifed moral laws, okay? but i know that "by the deeds of the law shall no flesh b justfied"

Save the rubbish for someone else. You dont understand the the bible thats why you said the 1st bolded.

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." (1 John 5:3). << the law isnt grievous but according to you it is. Which makes you a fellower of something else not Christ.

The second bolded makes you a lier, and since you dont keep the commandment, i dont expect you to understand the bible.

"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Romans 2:13).
the doers of the law shall be justified.