madamkoko:

THIS COMPARISON IS MORONIC. CHILD DEVELOPMENT has nothing to do with RELIGIOUS BRAINWASHING.

Please provide reasonable examples.

the only thing moronic here is someone thinking that cos the man of God is trying to tell them the truth is a bad thing and that means the man of God is making himself God, trust me, when you dont know enuf about the word of God, that made you a baby in the word of God and part fo teh growing process is to learn from those that has been placed as leader over you.

the only thing moronic here is someone thinking that because the man of God is trying to tell them the truth is a bad thing and that means the man of God is making himself God, trust me, when you don't know enough about the word of God, that made you a baby in the word of God and part fo the growing process is to learn from those that has been placed as leader over you.

The only thing that is moronic here is you thinking that you can impose your nonsensical beliefs on another.

Who decided that he was a man of God: you or God ?

Who decided that he was telling the truth: you or God?

the likes of you who call yourself xtians hence attempting to define God or what he stands for through a MAN WRITTEN STORYBOOK intrigues me.

that made you a baby in the word of God and part fo the growing process is to learn from those that has been placed as leader over you.

When you have something logical and reasonable to write, let me know.

madamkoko:



The only thing that is moronic here is you thinking that you can impose your nonsensical beliefs on another.

Who decided that he was a man of God: you or God ?

Who decided that he was telling the truth: you or God?

the likes of you who call yourself xtians hence attempting to define God or what he stands for through a MAN WRITTEN STORYBOOK intrigues me.


When you have something logical and reasonable to write, let me know.

there is no need getting worked up here, define to me what a man of God is? then, we can use that to determine if he is a man of God or not.
i am always willing to learn, so i am all ears

there is no need getting worked up here,

No one is getting worked up!!!

I am however intrigued by how many people are influenced by jargon; never willling to challenge or question anything that they have been taught.

define to me what a man of God is?

To me, from what i have studied and learned thus far, every human being is chosen by God. Many are able to accomplish the goal set forth to them/others are not.

There is no definition for "man of God" or what "God" is. Everybody expereinces "God" differently.

People are HUMAN why would I want to label another human being a so called "man of God" never. We are all chosen.

various DOCTRINES/DENOMINATIONS exist because HUMANs (pastors/whatever sh#$%t you want to call them) attempt for form a cohesive/similar definition of what "God" is and how he should be experienced.

madamkoko:

There is no definition for "man of God" or what "God" is. Everybody expereinces "God" differently.

People are HUMAN why would I want to label another human being a so called "man of God" never. We are all chosen.

various DOCTRINES/DENOMINATIONS exist because HUMANs (pastors/whatever sh#$%t you want to call them) attempt for form a cohesive/similar definition of what "God" is and how he should be experienced.

that is great, however, have u ever sat down and think how this world has came to being and why has the creator decided to create it?
Let us for explainatino sake say was created by Mr. John, how dont u think that same Mr. john will like to have some pple to be in charge, cos he need some lil govt in place to look after the affairs of all he has created?
I will call such pple man of John, however, no one is saying Mr. B has to be man of John, anyone cld decide to be man of john based on their knowledge of Mr. John, now same is of God, he created all things and after he did, he said, they all look good, and he has sent us all to preach the gospel, some decided to do it full time, while others do it part time, the full time one are paid by what comes out if, and they represent God fully.
So there man of God.

Let us for explainatino sake say was created by Mr. John, how don't u think that same Mr. john will like to have some people to be in charge, because he need some little govt in place to look after the affairs of all he has created?
I will call such people man of John, however, no one is saying Mr. B has to be man of John, anyone cld decide to be man of john based on their knowledge of Mr. John, now same is of God, he created all things and after he did, he said, they all look good, and he has sent us all to preach the gospel, some decided to do it full time, while others do it part time, the full time one are paid by what comes out if, and they represent God fully.
So there man of God.

You see, this is where I have a problem. It seems as though you are regurgitating everything that you have been told/taught. Who told you that this is how "God" organized things ? or you are giving an explanation of HOW MAN THINKS "GOD" organized/organizes things.

madamkoko:

You see, this is where I have a problem. It seems as though you are regurgitating everything that you have been told/taught. Who told you that this is how "God" organized things ? or you are giving an explanation of HOW MAN THINKS "GOD" organized/organizes things.

I am not telling what i have been told at all, i am telling you based on my own understanding of God.

I am not telling what i have been told at all, i am telling you based on my own understanding of God.

NOW YOU ARE HITTING THE NAIL on the head and that has been my thing all allong.

Your understanding of God, is different from another person's understanding of God.

RE: the pastor, he might have expereinced God the mean and fearful way. Doesn't mean that everyone ought to experience God that same way. This is why I taught his statement was nonsensical.

If I told you the statement : "the boy ran away," your interpretation of the meaning "the boy ran away" will be different from someone else's, hence creating a distinction/self interpretation/distinct understanding of the same information/the same boy.

madamkoko:

NOW YOU ARE HITTING THE NAIL on the head and that has been my thing all allong.

Your understanding of God, is different from another person's understanding of God.

RE: the pastor, he might feel have expereinced God the mean and fearful way. Doesn't mean that everyone ought to experience God that same way. This is why I taught his statement was nonsensical.

If I told you the statement : "the boy ran away," your interpretation of the meaning "the boy ran away" will be different from someone else's, hence creating a distinction/self interpretation of the same information.

And i will never impose my blv or understanding you.
we are all just here exchanging views and trying t learn from one another.

$$Rhino

it is being said in western world by day, especially when yo are not paying your tithe.

It seems you have not realised the scam being practised by those MoGs requesting Christians to pay tithes. Maybe you need to read this:

As a sequel to my previous posts about the the mis-information being preached in our churches about tithesI hereby present a court scenario in which the good pastor stands before the Great Judge of all the earth, the Lord Jesus Christ, on this subject. I came across this post when i checked on a link supplied by one of the contributors to a previous thread. Enjoy the conversation:

Jesus: Enoch, you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income to your church and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn’t tithe they would go to hell. How do you plead?

Pastor Enoch: I plead not guilty, sir. I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold.

Jesus: Is it not true, Enoch, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, you are exactly right, that’s what I just told you.

Jesus: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13. But it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn’t he?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose you are right.

Jesus: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: No.

Jesus: Enoch, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: Well, just once.

Jesus: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week?

Pastor Enoch: No it does not.

Jesus: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: Well, the Bible says it was from the plunders of war?

Jesus: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war?

Pastor Enoch: Yes that’s what the Bible says.

Jesus: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe?

Pastor Enoch: That is what the scripture seems to indicate.

Jesus: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else?

Pastor Enoch: I guess not

Jesus: You guess not! You pastor one of the largest denominations and you are only guessing? Is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone?

Pastor Enoch: No; it is not written anywhere that I have seen.

Jesus: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: I believe it says plunder?

Jesus: So plunder could be any number of things?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose

Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people’s possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money correct?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. You are correct; it does not say just money.

Jesus: As a matter of fact, money is never mentioned in that account at all; is that correct, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir; money is never mentioned; just goods and food and people.

Jesus: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all?

Pastor Enoch: That is right.

Jesus: I only have one last question for you, Enoch. Did God command Abraham to give this plunder as tithe to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: No; it appears that he did this voluntarily.

Jesus: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local church?

Jesus: Considering all the evidence, I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain.

Pastor Enoch: Sir, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example.

Jesus: Let’s see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me, Enoch.

Pastor Enoch: In Genesis chapter 28, starting at verse 20 it says, ‘Jacob vowed a vow, saying, “If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father’s house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God’s house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you.”‘

Jesus: You said people should follow Jacobs’s example, is that right, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; that is right. He vowed to give a tenth and we should too.

Jesus: Let me point out one thing for you, Enoch. Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob’s example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right?

Pastor Enoch: That is not what I meant.

Jesus: What did you mean then?

Pastor Enoch: That we should give God a tenth also.

Jesus: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time.

Pastor Enoch: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow.

Jesus: It is obvious that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place.

Pastor Enoch: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe.

Jesus: So far, all you have done is taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence.

Pastor Enoch: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, “Will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” So you see sir, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us.

Jesus: Answer me this, Enoch, were you aware that I never required anyone to tithe money?

Pastor Enoch: No I didn’t know that.

Jesus: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money.

Pastor Enoch: Sir, that is because they didn’t have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead.

Jesus: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis - and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses?

Pastor Enoch: I don’t know

Jesus: I also want you to know that these verses speak to people under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know, I fulfilled the law while I was on earth. The Law is no longer binding. Tithing was part of that law that has been abolished.

Jesus: And once again, you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money?

Pastor Enoch: I do not know of any.

Jesus: So if God never changed it from food to money who did?

Pastor Enoch: Man must have.

Jesus: So far all you have done, Enoch, is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have?

Pastor Enoch: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that You told us to tithe.

Jesus: Ok let me hear it.

Pastor Enoch: You said in Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone.” Surely, You were saying there that we should be tithing.

Jesus: Let me ask you a question, who was I talking to?

Pastor Enoch: The scripture says the scribes and Pharisees.

Jesus: Are you and your members scribes or Pharisees?

Pastor Enoch: No sir; God forbid!.

Jesus: I also said in that passage, “You have left undone the weightier matters of the law“. Are we under the law, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: No.

Jesus: Why not?

Pastor Enoch: Because You fulfilled it, and it passed away.

Jesus: When did I fulfill the law?

Pastor Enoch: When You were crucified.

Jesus: So the law was still in effect until My death?

Pastor Enoch: That is correct sir.

Jesus: I think you know where I am going with this; don’t you?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. Since You had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding, the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also.

Jesus: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing?

Pastor Enoch: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin.

Jesus: Was money mentioned there?

Pastor Enoch: No sir; it was not.

Jesus: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say?

Pastor Enoch: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We had to build that million-seater cathedral to accomodate the people who come for Holy Ghost Festival yearly, the salaries of other pastors have to be paid. So many other things. We depend on the money from the people.

Jesus: The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. Not to mention that all those items you listed are problems you created for yourelves. They are not My agenda.

Jesus: Now to the more greivous consequences of your enforcing the tithe on believer. What did Paul write in Galatians 5:4 about attempting to follow the Law?

Pastor Enoch: That if they obeyed any part of the old Jewish law, including the law of circumcision, in order to be right (justified) with God, they have fallen from grace, or lost their salvation.

Jesus: Do you admit that like circumcision, tithing was part of the law?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir.

Jesus: Now if obeying the law of circumcision would cause gentile Christians of Paul’s day to “fall from grace”, one would have to conclude that obeying another old law; “The law of tithing” would have the same results on them today; that is to say, it will cause them to fall away from the grace of God.

Pastor Enoch: [Swallows hard] I suppose so.

Jesus: In other words, you are admitting that your teaching the tithe is actually sending people down the road to hell?

Pastor Enoch: That was not what I intended, sir.

Jesus: Nevertheless, that is the result of your actions - your ministry. How many of those one billion members (not counting the non-members who heard you and believed you) do you suppose have been turned aside unknowingly this way?

Pastor Enoch: [Swallows hard] I have no idea, sir.

Pastor Enoch: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. Yes I am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore. Infact, I will go and take my words back. As many people as possible must hear this.

THE END

I have given the narration a good ending. I hope that someone close to Pastor Adeboye loves him enough and has enough balls to bring this issue to his attention. You will be saving not only his soul but the souls of millions of others who believe his grace-defying, grace-denying doctrine of tithing.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Credits:
This narration was crafted and adapted from my previous article, Believers are not subject to the Tithe, and from materials put up at http://tithing.christian-things.com/articles.html

Source: http://yomisays./2008/06/25/the-trial-of-pastor-enoch/
----------------------------------------------

STOP! Search!! Meditate!!!

Hebrews 7: 1-12, 1 Timothy 5:8, Jeremiah 9: 23-24

Source: The Holy Bible- http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php, +4%3A1&ver=kjv

anonimi,nice one!.

our poll reveals a worring fact, that many have little or no knowledge of God's word. that he is mercifull does not stop God from being a consuming fire. God has time for everything on earth. while christians should refrain from cursing, they should know that it can come in handy once in a while. the servants of God who is grieved at ungodly things should not hesitate to wield the whip to bring law and order - even it requires a curse

Who is a Man of God??

Does it make sense

I am a Woman of God, abi na

is dis thread still on?


hehehe una go kill unaself for oyedepo case

Nairaland debating society i hail una o!

This only goes to buttress the point I am making about these so called MEN OF GOD, you know as these days are going its just becoming increasingly glaring that most people do not even know why they are worshiping at a particular church or they see their so called OVERSEER as perfect and cannot make mistakes.

The poll here shows it clearly it was unChristlike to do so, who the hell is a Christian these days anyway its just a business machine for them and just  like Mrs. Ibru would be very angry that robbers stormed her bank head quaters so are these MEN OF GOD.

I'm shining my eye.

Thank God for you

Here is my take on a Man of God doing scam or no scam as you have put it.
I pay my offering and my tithe according to what God has asked of me, whatever the man of God does with it, it is btw him and God and not of my buz.

Where Did offerings and Tithe come out from.

IT IS GROSSLY UNBIBLICAL

I don't know where it said in the Bible that tithes and offering HAD TO BE MONETARY!!!!

why must we always refer to
men of God when things go wrong.

we aint looking unto them as example
pastor,prophets,Imam and the rest are not to be followed,
but Jesus the perect example to be followed.

In a nutshell,no one is above a mistake.
he might have asked 4 forgiveness.
so who are we to keep nagging about what is not what?

Everyone with his quirkS!!!

Gamine:

Where Did offerings and Tithe come out from.

IT IS GROSSLY UNBIBLICAL

Leviticus 27:30 "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD."
and there are so much more

Tithe doesnt have to be monetary, could the produce of your farm, and could be services.
It is just 10th of what you get.

pussy_full:

you're all goats.

You can say that again. they are all lamas

You aren't xempted u knw!

Hahaha

Rhino, if you need detailed info

i will mail you.

Tithing dosnt apply now,

Give me a new testament verse please

Missy B:

You aren't xempted u knw!

hey baby whats up? how is your day?

Gamine, pls mail me the detail to
Rhinnoo@gmail.com
I will like to read, however, would like to understand how come we wanna enjoy the good thing of the old testament and leave out the tithing and the offeering

Malachi 3:8 asks the question "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation."

10 of Malachi 3, you will notice that it states "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."

Old testament, but u cant have one of the book without the other.
Jesus came not to destroy the law, but to make it perfect.

Sent.

Jesus came to Fulfill the LAW


t is amazing how man is so against God’s will - even when it is written in black and white. When Jesus would speak about the last days, and the signs to watch out for, the very first thing He said was:

See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in My name, saying, I am Christ, and will deceive many (Matthew 24:4, 5)

Note his words: first a warning against deception, then that the deceivers will come in His name, then the sort of claims that the deceivers would make: “I am christ”.

Many people are waiting for someone to come along and sneer at the name of Christ, and then they’ll say, “That’s a false prophet!”. But Jesus said otherwise. He said they would come in His name, preach in His name, pray in His name, work miracles in His name - AND THEY WOULD STILL BE FALSE!

He also said they would claim to be “christ”. The word “christ” means “anointed one”. Now think clearly about it: every Chris, Enoch, Matthew, and David are claiming to be anointed ones all over the place. Such a claim was not made by even those specially chosen by Jesus to lay the foundation of the Church. None of the apostles claimed to be “anointed ones”, though they had more right to the claim than anyone else!

Then in verse 11 of that same chapter, the Lord stated:

And many false prophets will rise and deceive many

Note the Lord’s words: “many false prophets”, “lead many astray”. These “many” false prophets will deceive many. This makes it clear that to many, these false prophets will be seen as true prophets.

Isn’t that what we see today: everyone claiming to be anointed and claiming to have been sent by the Lord, yet their teachings and practices consistently violate God’s word.

Jesus said that these false prophets would be many. Look around you today and see how we have pastors, prophets, evangelists, bishops, apostles and all sorts who fit this description. So many of them! And many people actually have been swayed by the sleight of hand.

Beloved, the false prophets Jesus warned about are not those blatant and grossly obvious people in the occult. According to the Lord, the ones to watch out for are wolves in sheep’s clothing - calling on the name of Jesus, yet are not His.

Yes; many deceived people will read this article and still go right on in their deception - for Scripture must be fulfilled. But Christ’s sheep hear His voice. They will turn from the darkness and draw into the light. For none of His will be lost.

Let him who has ears listen to what the Spirit is saying to the Church.