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I'm A Mother Of 2 Boys, And I Can't (and Won't) Support Feminism / Girls night out discussions / 11-yr-Old Girl Gets Pregnant For Five Boys (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by Nobody: 9:09pm On Sep 03, 2015 |
netotse: I think he made good points mixed with ad hominems. Fayose should know better than to speak carelessly especially about unfounded accusations of tribalism. And just because the likes of Fayose cannot be reasoned with doesn't mean others shouldn't call them out. Even if Fayose doesn't appreciate the purpose of the shots fired at him, there are others in the wider society who would learn a thing or two. Somewhere in Ekiti is a teenager who's watching these events unfold. Perhaps, he'd question Fayose's antics now that a peer has called him out. |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by Nobody: 9:41pm On Sep 03, 2015 |
Per commanding, it's more assertiveness than tyranny. This doesn't preclude openness to superior opinion or aversion to common sense. 2 Likes |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by 5minsmadness: 11:51pm On Sep 03, 2015 |
netotse: The Ekiti governor is a relic of the old order; he represents the old Nigeria of waste, of hollow ritual of noise and nuisance. Fayose is a man suffering from political depression in the aftermath of the defeat of his patriarch Goodluck Jonathan. He is a hallucinating man of the ancient, yet to come to terms with the realities of a new dawn and new Nigeria...Choi Honestly the guy sounded like a typical nairalander dishing out well placed vitriol! But I agree that he might as well have been talking to a brick wall. Fayose aint gonna change anytime soon. |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by 5minsmadness: 12:03am On Sep 04, 2015 |
TV01: What brought this about? Anyway, you have a point. Women invariably fall in love with men because they are men, not lily-livered ninnies who cry to prove they can get in touch with thier feminine side. I tend to be apocalyptic about these things and feel its all part of the end-time agenda. the subjugation of man and the overturning of his dominion over all creation, including women. I however do not subscribe to ignoring a woman's happiness though. Forging ahead dogmatically at the expense of the woman's comfort could spell future disaster. Women are built to be pampered. You may not need to always sucumb to thier illogocal whims and caprices but every once in a while u need to indulge them and allow them shine. It allows for smoother symbiosis. 1 Like |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by ApexTitan(m): 12:12am On Sep 04, 2015 |
TV01: What you are referring to here is an ideal state that many a modern day man cannot relate to. As you noted for many generations now, identifying with and qualifying for the woman's love has been seen as the defacto standard of romance and intimacy by many men. We are conditioned from our earliest days to strive towards earning the woman's approval, encouraged by the media, arts and society many many men grow up internalising this belief that they are to continually pursue and lose themselves in the woman's love. With the current state of affairs how many men will be able to grasp it when you say that it is women who lose themselves in the love of a man? With the growing ascendancy of the feminine imperative how many men will understand what you mean? I'm sure you know that men are the true romantics. We are the ones that drive romance for the woman, the man is the one that invests emotionally in the idea that a woman will love him for himself - and yet strives (sometimes all of his life) to earn this love that is supposedly unconditional. How is such a man to come to terms with the fact that his pursuit of the woman's love is not the best course he should take? |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by Kimoni: 12:18am On Sep 04, 2015 |
@Bellong - Oloru of Oru Thanks bro. Appreciate |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by TV01(m): 10:04am On Sep 04, 2015 |
netotse:I think Tim got it exactly right here; Timbuktou:It's about being assertive, proactively taking charge. Assuming responsibility and knowing the buck stops with you. I like the word commanding as derived from the bible. Women actually expect and want it in men. You will lose status in their eyes if you are not. This is even as they step in where men fail to deliver, and many will actually try and drag it with them until they see the men are immovable - then they may calm down. pickabeau1:Cheers. ApexTitan:I can only share with those I can reach. Ultimately people have to see it for themselves. If I'm right and the consequences are really dire, ultimately there wil have to be a correction. Or, perhaps we learn to live in this altered state in which very few are really happy. It starting to manifest now - emancipated, entiltled and empowered Western women have never been unhappier. The family has never been more fractured - with the attendant pathologies, and men are increasingly on the outside looking in. ApexTitan:True, truer, truest. Women for the most part "love" strategically - and that's the good ones. In some ways that's actually a good thing. Men just need to understand. and not fight it, but act accordingly. 5minsmadness:I didn't suggest ignoring it - just not prioritising it or making it a mans prime driver or using it as the ultimate metric of how well his family is doing. The truth is most of a womans joy comes from getting the right calibre of man to commit to and invest in her. It validates her, gives her status amongst other women, respect in society, as well as care protection and provision for her and their children - most else is just icing. Even sex sef is mostly for the man not her ! TV |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by coogar: 10:49am On Sep 04, 2015 |
raumdeuter: i have temporarily renounced that state..... till fayose gets assassinated or impeached. he's a fat boil on the arsë of humanity. |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by An0nimus: 3:27pm On Sep 04, 2015 |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by bellong: 1:20pm On Sep 05, 2015 |
...And Fogini dumps Nadal out of the US open... Great game. Didn't believe some of the Fogini's shots.. |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by Kimoni: 5:16pm On Sep 05, 2015 |
5minsmadness: |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by 5minsmadness: 8:49pm On Sep 05, 2015 |
Kimoni:Er, Kimoni, is anything the matter? |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by Kimoni: 7:45pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
5minsmadness: Have fun but not everyone can be hoodwinked. |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by Kimoni: 7:52pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
The above is a growing trend globally and I would say the situation is a bit worse in Nigeria but it is still a global trend/problem anyway. These days, men are increasingly expecting working women to split the bills with them, which would be fine if women were also expecting men to share the housework. But this is clearly not the case and even where men do some housework, the ratio is highly skewed to the man's favor. And so working women are generally overworked but unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, we pride ourselves in being able to multitask which is good but of course, the side effects are there which are hard to cope with. My story - I noticed this trend before I got married and I told myself, I won't be caught in it and fortunately, I hooked someone who shares same value. My solution to this is role separation. He is the Chairman/CEO and I am the COO of the house. He provides the capital and takes the final decision, I run the show and add my input according to my expertise. Simply put, he provides the basics - housing, food, shelter and I run with the resources. Like every normal situation, we are able to back up for each other temporarily when the need arises but the fact still remains that we both identify our primary responsibilities and we do not take any extra support for granted. Peradventure, I need help with my COO duties or I need an upgrade in the level of services he has provided, he has given me a free hand to upgrade or get help if required, hence, I have no excuses whatsoever in fulfilling my wifely duties. (I recognize the fact that this would not work for some families; I am in no way saying this is a perfect model for every family). In reality, I see a lot of issues with couples over finances and home management and most of these issues, I personally trace to separation or non-seperation of family roles. My question is this - do you agree that women are taking up a larger chunk of it all? what model are you running or what model do you intend to run when you are married. As a man, If you expect to split the bills, would you be happy to split the house chores(not cherry picking pls). Can you in all honestly say that your wife is not taking up more share of the overall job of running the home (financial et al.)? Do you think that in any way, mandating your wife to take up part of the traditional role of providing will affect her in submitting to you? raumdeuter and Jaybee3 - I noted your comments earlier. |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by netotse(m): 8:33pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
Kimoni: You have a point here...even if a couple splits the bills in half there would still be this expectation that she should carry out all the typical wifely duties. I intend to bear the bulk of the burden financially, where possible. Especially since I think housework(cleaning, washing arranging et al...DIY/washing plates isn't housework to me ) is a waste of my time. I think your model works fine, if you ask me. |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by kaboninc(m): 8:35pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
“Men, somehow, for whatever reason, seem to be better able to pick and choose, to focus on things they like and that are important to them, and let the other things go.” Women from birth are trained, nurtured, cultured to manage a home and men to provide for the home. On a lesser note, men are taught how to manage a home most especially by their mothers and when they are usually the first offspring. A woman is also trained on how to survive, to take care of herself - developing the capability to provide in a home. However, like the post I quoted, I may not subscribe to sharing chores nor bills. As a man, I can take up chores just because I see a need not because of an agreement. I believe that's a woman's domain and I'll compliment her as the need arises. Same with the bills. I do not subscribe to sharing bills because I know that on her own, she may see a need to take up one thereby helping. Besides, they (women) always have a way of getting back this 'assistance'. That does not stop her from asking for my hands neither does it stop me for asking for her financial support. |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by kaboninc(m): 8:39pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
netotse: Exactly! And also expect her to meet her own aspect of the financial obligations. |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by Kimoni: 8:42pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
netotse: Lol...housework is a waste of ur time. Kontinu And I have to admit most men think like that but the question is, do they also subscribe to total provision? I don't get that vibe except for a very few |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by Kimoni: 8:45pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
kaboninc: So, Kabonic and Netotse - what is the way forward for a working woman in this situation? |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by netotse(m): 8:55pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
Kimoni: omo...I have used style to tell my madam several times o...I have no problem washing plates, changing light bulbs, fiddling with stuff but ask me to sweep, cook or arrange clothes and my body will start to do one kind (I understand there will be times I need to do more and that's fine). I must admit I didn't really think that way until my Mum sat me down a couple of months back, my position has shifted a great deal. |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by Kimoni: 8:58pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
netotse: funny you God bless your mum. We need many more MILs like her |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by netotse(m): 9:00pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
Kimoni: The less time she commits to looking after the home, the more the burden she should be willing to shoulder na...simples My best friends aunt said she married later than her mates because she knew she was not ready and that when she married, one of the first things she did was hire a washman because she didn't have time to be washing any man's clothes...no need to have an argument on how busy she was or what not. |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by ApexTitan(m): 9:21pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
Carrin Jade is a lawyer, a yoga teacher, a freelance writer and — in her spare time — a mother to two young children. Something ain't right |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by 5minsmadness: 9:51pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
Kimoni:Further explanation needed |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by netotse(m): 11:11pm On Sep 06, 2015 |
ApexTitan: thought the same thing too...also thought their sex life must be non-existent. |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by pickabeau1: 7:12am On Sep 07, 2015 |
ApexTitan: It ain't really right |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by thorpido(m): 8:09am On Sep 07, 2015 |
Kimoni:For single ladies,the most important decision they would ever make for themselves is 'who' they choose to marry. In our contemporary world,most families cannot survive on income from just one partner.The woman too has to work,not just to earn an income but also because of the fulfilment of building a career for herself.It means less time for the home and more work to do. It's very important that a woman who works and is planning to get married should look for a man that is domesticated.I don't know what a lot of girls do when dating but if I was a girl dating a guy,one of the very important things I'll look for is how you take care of your apartment.How do you get your clothes washed,the floors kept clean and your kitchen?Do you cook or eat out as a bachelor?These things would be important to me.If the man you also want to marry expect you to share bills(i believe you should have discussed this),is he also going to take up chores? I follow the old model.I don't share bills with my wife.I practically take up the essentials,food,rent,school fees,light,gen etc.She acts as a back up and support and mainly takes care of luxuries.I however still do house work.One,because I'm used to it.I grew up doing those things and did as a bachelor.I used to wash the basket of clothes until we got a washing machine and still mop floors.Two,i'm human.If you see your partner is tired,why would you fold your arms and let her keep doing all the work? 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by Kimoni: 9:47am On Sep 07, 2015 |
thorpido: Dr T, I perfectly agree with you that these things should be discussed during courtship, and choosing a spouse is one of, if not the most important decision one will make in life. It can either make or mar one. But again, I guess people change. Or maybe people pretend. If not, why do people love up, court for several years and still end up getting divorced. I personally know a couple that dated for 8 years and stayed married only for 7 years. I dont understand it rather than the fact that marriage changes some people. I might feel it's okay to do some things as a boyfriend/girlfriend which my girlfriend/boyfriend will take for granted and think it's settled but unfortunately, I do not believe in doing the same thing as a married. It's weird but it happens. A personal example - My husband loves to and is an expert at making the bed, he will do it perfectly without a single rumple. We got married and for a year, he was still making it but one day, he just insisted and said I should start making it. lol..I protested and told him he could make it better than I did naa. I didn't and still don't have that patience of perfectly smoothing a 6 by 6 bed . Na lie o, the young man insisted I had to do it. Gratefully, it's a petty issue so I didn't mind but I realise, this could have been a bigger issue. Hence, I am personally not quick to ascribe issues to pre-marriage negligence. But i honestly agree that one needs to identify these issues as much as possible and talk about them during courtship. You run the traditional model too and I think so far, the men that have responded run this model. I'll say your wife is even over lucky sef that you fully provide and are also domesticated. Pls tell her she's one lucky wife. Lastly, I agree that it's becoming difficult for families to depend on one source of income, my problem with it is the domestication part where the woman is still fully/mostly responsible for the chores. Isn't that skewed already? |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by Kimoni: 9:52am On Sep 07, 2015 |
pickabeau1: Pick, apex una don come o (netotse, pls don't join them abeg) Bet seriously guys, I would only be worried if that article was written by Carrin herself but it isn't. It was written by a writer who drew up his conclusions about her life and you know how writers are. They earn money from writing for a reason. Pls don't be distracted from the main issue because of that. **edited** she is first and foremost a mother to her kids... So Pickabeau1 and apextitan - ur thoughts pls |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by TV01(m): 10:37am On Sep 07, 2015 |
Kimoni:Ok, we'll give her the benefit of the doubt. The fact remains that she is juggling a number of "jobs" along with motherhood. Without doing what the writer of the article might have done - project onto her situation - lets look at things; Both husband and wife work as well as raise kids - "if we agree" that raising the kids and keeping the maritla bond strong is a priority, then it stands to reason that she may have to think about sacrificing some of her "multiple career aspirations" to make this happen. Her husband is also a lawyer. How much is their combined income (all pursuits?), how much do they actually need to live comfortably as opossed to straining to attain level or not thinking of sacrificing personal desires for the long-term interest of the whole. ApexTitan is right if "we agree" So the first point I'd make is that the priorities of the couple drive a lot of the dynamic And this brings us to todays reality for most - the need for a dual income. I'll say this to start, yes, womens earnings - or economic empowerment - are on the rise, and they are making increasing contribution to household finances. However, the fact remains, that in the vast majority of cases men are still the major contributors or sole breadwinners where there is just the one. I don't believe the relative financial contributions should have any bearing on the dynamic in terms of headship - just like any other factor, age, looks, education etc. But in practice it may be hard for some to maintain that line, dependant on a number of factors. And obviously not all actually subsribe to the notion of headship in a biblical sense. TV |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by thorpido(m): 11:11am On Sep 07, 2015 |
Kimoni:It is skewed.I agree people do change and there are people who stop doing things they were used to doing.You can never know everything about a person during courtship but one can know enough if you pay attention. Some men are traditional men and they are not willing to change that.It will be hard for such women who marry such men. |
Re: Boys Night Out Discussions by TV01(m): 11:21am On Sep 07, 2015 |
Regards chores, I don't take that approach of tasks to be divvied up. And I’d also wonder at an equalist approach. I have a more expansive view - effort, preferences, strengths, contribution, convenience and balance. There is nothing in the home - bar one or two things - that I cannot do. It's a matter of responsibility & often necessity. Commanding means being competent as well. Which soldier is there that will really respect a general with no battle experience? My wife isn't feeling heavy lifting, or jobs too dirty for anything more than a pair of kitchen gloves . I do all the heavy stuff. But the heavy stuff is not as frequent as the day to day lighter stuff. So typically I'm pitching in - in a nutshell we will both tend to be doing one of the numerous things that need attending to. Balance & effort My wife likes loading - the expensive machine she made me buy - and folding. I find hanging very calming ! As able, we tend to do this jointly. Preferences, strengths. I appreciate the "busy life" aspect of Carrin' story - as that can be the case with just one job each and a few children. If I sense my wife is tired or overdoing it, I simply tell her to carry it over, or take it over myself. Overall I'm stronger, so in a relative sense probably do more. Contribution & balance. It’s not “chores”, it’s managing my household and ensuring everyone is well and everything is in order. TV 4 Likes |
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