Was Jesus a Liar?

One of the best-known and most influential political works of all time was written by Niccolò Machiavelli in 1532. In his classic, The Prince, Machiavelli exalts power, success, image, and efficiency above loyalty, faith, and honesty. According to Machiavelli, lying is okay if it accomplishes a political end.

Could Jesus Christ have been motivated by this Machiavellian principle? In fact, the Jewish opponents of Jesus were constantly trying to expose him as a fraud and liar. They would barrage him with questions in attempts to trip him up and make him contradict himself. Yet Jesus responded with remarkable consistency.

The question we must deal with is, what could possibly motivate Jesus to live his entire life as a lie? He taught that God was opposed to lying and hypocrisy, so he wouldn’t have been doing it to please his Father. He certainly didn’t lie for his followers’ benefit. (All but one were martyred.) And so we are left with only two other reasonable explanations, each of which is problematic.

Benefit

Many people have lied for personal gain. In fact, the motivation of most lies is some perceived benefit to oneself. What could Jesus have hoped to gain from lying about his identity? Power would be the most obvious answer. If people believed he was God, he would have tremendous power. (That is why many ancient leaders, such as the Caesars, claimed divine origin.)

The rub with this explanation is that Jesus shunned all attempts to move him in the direction of seated power, instead chastising those who abused such power and lived their lives pursuing it. He also chose to reach out to the outcasts (prostitutes and lepers), those without power, creating a network of people whose influence was less than zero. In a way that could only be described as bizarre, all that Jesus did and said moved diametrically in the other direction from power.

It would seem that if power was Jesus’ motivation, he would have avoided the cross at all costs. Yet, on several occasions, he told his disciples that the cross was his destiny and mission. How would dying on a Roman cross bring one power?

Death, of course, brings all things into proper focus. And while many martyrs have died for a cause they believed in, few have been willing to die for a known lie. Certainly all hopes for Jesus’ own personal gain would have ended on the cross. Yet, to his last breath, he would not relinquish his claim of being the unique Son of God. Jesus used the terms “Son of Man” and “Son of God” to identify his dual nature as both man and God

A Legacy

So if Jesus was above lying for personal benefit, perhaps his radical claims were falsified in order to leave a legacy. But the prospect of being beaten to a pulp and nailed to a cross would quickly dampen the enthusiasm of most would-be superstars.

Here is another haunting fact. If Jesus were to have simply dropped the claim of being God’s Son, he never would have been condemned. It was his claim to be God and his unwillingness to recant of it that got him crucified.

If enhancing his credibility and historical reputation was what motivated Jesus to lie, one must explain how a carpenter from a poor Judean village could ever anticipate the events that would catapult his name to worldwide prominence. How would he know his message would survive? Jesus’ disciples had fled and Peter had denied him. Not exactly the formula for launching a religious legacy.

Do historians believe Jesus lied? Scholars have scrutinized Jesus’ words and life to see if there is any evidence of a defect in his moral character. In fact, even the most ardent skeptics are stunned by Jesus’ moral and ethical purity. One of those was skeptic and antagonist John Stuart Mill (1806–73), the philosopher. Mill wrote of Jesus,

"About the life and sayings of Jesus there is a stamp of personal originality combined with profundity of insight in the very first rank of men of sublime genius of whom our species can boast. When this pre-eminent genius is combined with the qualities of probably the greatest moral reformer and martyr to that mission who ever existed on earth, religion cannot be said to have made a bad choice in pitching upon this man as the ideal representative and guide for humanity.8"

According to historian Philip Schaff, there is no evidence, either in church history or in secular history, that Jesus lied about anything. Schaff argued, “How, in the name of logic, common sense, and experience, could a deceitful, selfish, depraved man have invented, and consistently maintained from the beginning to end, the purest and noblest character known in history with the most perfect air of truth and reality?”9

To go with the option of liar seems to swim upstream against everything Jesus taught, lived, and died for. To most scholars, it just doesn’t make sense. Yet, to deny Jesus’ claims, one must come up with some explanation. And if Jesus’ claims are not true, and he wasn’t lying, the only option remaining is that he must have been self-deceived.

Was Jesus a Lunatic?

Albert Schweitzer, who was awarded the Nobel Prize in 1952 for his humanitarian efforts, had his own views about Jesus. Schweitzer concluded that insanity was behind Jesus’ claim to be God. In other words, Jesus was wrong about his claims but didn’t intentionally lie. According to this theory, Jesus was deluded into actually believing he was the Messiah.

C. S. Lewis considered this option carefully. Lewis deduced the insanity of Jesus’ claims—if they are not true. He said that someone who claimed to be God would not be a great moral teacher. “He would either be a lunatic—on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg—or else he would be the Devil of Hell.”10

Even those most skeptical of Christianity rarely question Jesus’ sanity. Social reformer William Channing (1780–1842), admittedly not a Christian, made the following observation about Jesus: “The charge of an extravagant, self-deluding enthusiasm is the last to be fastened on Jesus. Where can we find traces of it in history? Do we detect them in the calm authority of His precepts?”11

Although his own life was filled with immorality and personal skepticism, the renowned French philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1712–78) acknowledged Jesus’ superior character and presence of mind. “When Plato describes his imaginary righteous man, loaded with all the punishments of guilt, yet meriting the highest rewards of virtue, he describes exactly the character of Christ. … What presence of mind. … Yes, if the life and death of Socrates are those of a philosopher, the life and death of Jesus Christ are those of a God.”12

Schaff posed the question we must ask ourselves: “Is such an intellect—thoroughly healthy and vigorous, always ready and always self-possessed—liable to a radical and most serious delusion concerning his own character and mission?”13

So, was Jesus a liar or a lunatic, or was he the Son of God? Could Jefferson have been right by labeling Jesus “only a good moral teacher” while denying him deity? Interestingly, the audience who heard Jesus—both believers and enemies—never regarded him as a mere moral teacher. Jesus produced three primary effects in the people who met him: hatred, terror, or adoration.

And today, 2,000 years later, Jesus is still the most polarizing person in our world. Yet it is not his morals, ethics, or legacy that enflames passions. The message Jesus brought to the world was that God made us for a purpose–and that purpose is wrapped up in His Son.

The claims of Jesus Christ force us to choose. As Lewis stated, we cannot put Jesus in the category of being just a great religious leader or good moral teacher. This former Oxford professor and skeptic challenges us to make up our own minds about Jesus:

"You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."14



http://y-jesus.com/jesuscomplex_10.php

Aburo, gbogbo nkon tio ko soke yi ni mo kaa o. Wa loo gbogbo e fun Muhammad, lai si awon nkon ti o so wipe oun o nse. Wa ronu daadaa. Wa ri wipe eru ati Ojishe Olorun ni awon mejeji.

hmmm, there are stuff that are too big for the human mind to grasp. . this is one of the lot.

@ poster,

If u want to make research, try the source and be resourced.

I think this topic need no argument, Jesus said it in the bible repeatedly my father, my father, time without numbers, and the bible talk about the trinity, God the father, son and the holy spirit, to me everybody has is own role and going through Jesus statement in the bible u will know that he always refer to one supreme being which is the father, even at the point of death he says father in thy hand i commit my souls, so Jesus had already clear the issue.

This topic has been thrashed time and time again.

Who is Jesus Christ?

Is Jesus God?

Is Jesus God

Is Jesus God?

Post-is Jesus Really God?


ETC

FOR me i would believe you if you gave me something in Jesus's own word saying i am God thats all, not John, i repeat not John, and i say again not John. Even in modern days we have a lot of people claiming to be prophets and they are not. So dont blame me if i dont believe in Johns words. But if i you told me Jesus said " , " fine.

shawn123:

FOR me i would believe you if you gave me something in Jesus's own word saying i am God thats all,

Is there anything in Jesus' own word saying: "I am not God"?

shawn123:

So don't blame me if i don't believe in Johns words.

Don't blame me for not believing in Muhammad's words.

@ Pilgrim
nice response, dont you think we would just have a peacefull and a more happier world if we just answered questions the way you did and moved on . Funny i like the transaction. You dont believe in what i do and i dont believe in what u do. so its a free world. Nice doing buisness with you. Other Nairalanders please learn from this transaction!!!! lol, lol

« #137 on: Today at 09:22:29 AM »
Quote from: shawn123 on Today at 09:12:40 AM
FOR me i would believe you if you gave me something in Jesus's own word saying i am God thats all,

Is there anything in Jesus' own word saying: "I am not God"?

Yes, there are. I will just quote Mark 12 verse 29. In this verse Jesus clearly without any ambiguity that he and his audinece/listeners have the same Lord, God is One (Single) Lord! This clearly tells us that Jesus declared to people; Look am not Lord or god. Infact you and I have the same entity, our Lord and God who is One God and not more than just single One!

Quote from: shawn123 on Today at 09:12:40 AM
So don't blame me if i don't believe in Johns words.

Don't blame me for not believing in Muhammad's words.

In America we call a person who believed, support or a proponent of an idea, and later changed to be disbeliever, a none supprter or an opposition of that idea, a Flipflpper. In this case you are what the yorubas, in my days called Ropopo! It means that you are just a person who goes with the popular idea. Thats why you now disbelieve in Muhammad. But once, you used to believe in him. But of course, you probably believe that seyidina (master), means rabb (lord)!

@A_K_O: « #135 on: September 12, 2008, 10:43 PM »

This topic has been thrashed time and time again.

Who is Jesus Christ?

Is Jesus God?

Is Jesus God

Is Jesus God?

Post-is Jesus Really God?


ETC

In your mind, you might have thrashed it. But the people who continued to ask you the questions believe you have not done any good work, to satisfy their question? Please tell me and the questioners, here and now; Is Jesus God? Please give evidential supports. From Jesus himself. And please make sure that you can disect and render all evidential verses to say he is not God, useless. Try Mark 12 Verse 29, for size!

I want you to work hard at your presentation.

lol, @ olabowale
good work ! nice choice of words,

@shawn123,

shawn123:

@ Pilgrim
nice response, don't you think we would just have a peacefull and a more happier world if we just answered questions the way you did and moved on .

I agree - and I'm gradually learning to do so.

shawn123:

Funny i like the transaction. You don't believe in what i do and i don't believe in what u do. so its a free world. Nice doing buisness with you. Other Nairalanders please learn from this transaction!!!! lol, lol

Many blessings.

@Olabowale,

olabowale:

Yes, there are. I will just quote Mark 12 verse 29. In this verse Jesus clearly without any ambiguity that he and his audinece/listeners have the same Lord, God is One (Single) Lord! This clearly tells us that Jesus declared to people; Look am not Lord or god. Infact you and I have the same entity, our Lord and God who is One God and not more than just single One!

Sorry, sir - you did not quote Mark 12:29 - you dribbled round the quote and force-fit your own agenda into that verse. That verse never stated that Jesus said: "I am not God". In verse 37 of that same Mark 12, Jesus pointed out that even David referred to the Messiah (Christ) as "Lord" - you never refer to that verse and have always pretended ass if you believe in Mark 12 at all.

olabowale:

In America we call a person who believed, support or a proponent of an idea, and later changed to be disbeliever, a none supprter or an opposition of that idea, a Flipflpper. In this case you are what the yorubas, in my days called Ropopo! It means that you are just a person who goes with the popular idea. Thats why you now disbelieve in Muhammad. But once, you used to believe in him. But of course, you probably believe that seyidina (master), means rabb (lord)!

I left Islam and am not returning. Is that a problem to you, personally?

@Olabowale,

olabowale:

@A_K_O: « #135 on: September 12, 2008, 10:43 PM »
In your mind, you might have thrashed it. But the people who continued to ask you the questions believe you have not done any good work, to satisfy their question?

The so-called questioners have constantly demonstrated their hypocrisy to satisfy their denials. Has that changed?

olabowale:

Please tell me and the questioners, here and now; Is Jesus God?

Yes.

olabowale:

Please give evidential supports. From Jesus himself.

John 10:30 - "I and my Father are one."

John 5:23 - "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

John 8:58 - "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Could Muhammad have ever imagined to say the same things for himself?

olabowale:

And please make sure that you can disect and render all evidential verses to say he is not God, useless. Try Mark 12 Verse 29, for size!

Have you seen Mark 12:37?

olabowale:

I want you to work hard at your presentation.

It's a simple issue - Christians are not ignorant people who recycle empty words as you do; and your Quran clearly applauds the intelligence of Christians.

John 10:30 - "I and my Father are one."

John 5:23 - "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

John 8:58 - "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Could Muhammad have ever imagined to say the same things for himself?


@pligrim
Muhammad never said he was God, mind you am not critisizing just correcting. Do you mind if i ask who this John is?

@shawn123,

shawn123:

@pligrim
Muhammad never said he was God, mind you am not critisizing just correcting.

I'm grateful for the "correction". But then, did I state that Muhammad claimed to be God? I only asked if Muhammad could have made any of those statements in those verses for himself in the way that Jesus Christ did.

shawn123:

Do you mind if i ask who this John is?

I wonder that you have no clue. Muslims have often tried to quote from John 14 and 16 to "prove" Muhammad. They saw it didn't work, and that is why they started denying and repudiating the Gospels. Your brother quoted Mark 12 earlier without asking who is mark. Muslim scholars have quoted John, Matthew, even Luke, Isaiah (even though he does not appear in Islamic theology), as well as Moses, Jeremiah, Malachi. . . all to prove something for Muhammad. When it didn't work, they turned against the same Bible they quoted. What's the name of the game being played here, if I may ask?

@pilgrim
hey am not attacking am just curious. kind of doing a research. trying to find out the dissiples that were alive during the time of Jesus, that is those that eat, drank, walked and travelled with Jesus. Also am trying to find out those that came up after Jesus, a couple of years after Jesus died. thats all,trust me am not critising like a said earlier on. Its just for educational purposes okay?

@shawn123,

I'm not sounding like you're attacking or anything like that. The questions you asked may perhaps be expressed by this verse:

John 21:24 - "This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true."

Have you carefully studied the Bible to find why John was not one who knew Jesus Christ in his day?

honestly i havent studied the bible enough to know that. But you could assist list those that were with Jesus and those that came after Jesus.

Who were those that came up after Jesus and how does that affect John? I don't find the interest to be drawn into long-winding arguments. Just like to keep focused on one thing before moving to the next.

Now, did you read anywhere that John came after Jesus had been glorified?

gosh pilgrim, you getting my questions all wrong. i didnt say after Jesus was glorified, i did even maintion glory in my post. what i mean is. there are dissiples that were with Jesus in his time and some came after Jesus was crusified right?
for example we have mark, John,luke etc
what i need is a column like this
dissiples that lived with Jesus and dissiples that wrote gospels after Jesus (after jesus was crucified)
, ,
, ,
, ,

all am asking is just names of these people thats all, am not battling or arguing anything ?

shawn123,

I didn't get your questions wrong, although I might've used words that scared you! Relax, bros.

shawn123:

what i mean is. there are dissiples that were with Jesus in his time and some came after Jesus was crusified right?

That is the same thing I pointed out to you in asking: "did you read anywhere that John came after Jesus had been glorified". . . that is, did John come after Jesus was crucified (or after the Resurrection, or after He was glorified)?

shawn123:

for example we have mark, John,luke etc
what i need is a column like this
dissiples that lived with Jesus and dissiples that wrote gospels after Jesus (after jesus was crucified)
, ,
, ,
, ,

all am asking is just names of these people thats all, am not battling or arguing anything ?

John was with Jesus Christ in his day - read Mark 3:17. The Gospels were written after Jesus was glorified, just as the Quran were written and compiled into one codex after Muhammad had passed away. So, what is your point, really?

well am not trying to make any point. Just seeking answers. but i think i have one of the answers. John was with Jesus right? if i get your point. how about mathew, luke, etc. but then what does glorified mean, and how long after Jesus was crusified was he glorifed?

My dear, you can pick up a copy of the Bible and find the answers. Your questions have been answered so many times that I don't find it challenging to keep recycling the same thing over and over again. (see the threads that A_K_O highlighted).

Anyhow, let me run through a few of yours:

shawn123:

John was with Jesus right? if i get your point. how about mathew, luke, etc.

They were all with Jesus as well, except Luke.

shawn123:

but then what does glorified mean,

John 7:39 - "But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified"

*glorified: pointing to His ascension and the glory that attended Him therefrom.

shawn123:

and how long after Jesus was crusified was he glorifed?

Acts 1:3 -- "To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God"

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 09:48:30 AM
And please make sure that you can disect and render all evidential verses to say he is not God, useless. Try Mark 12 Verse 29, for size!

Have you seen Mark 12:37?

I asked for Mark 12 verse 29! At lease write it out. Then write Mark 12 Verse 37. You can then use it to nullify 29! I wanna read your renedring irrelevant the "words" of God! t least part of it by another part! Thats what you call the bible, word of god, aint it?

olabowale:

I asked for Mark 12 verse 29! At lease write it out. Then write Mark 12 Verse 37.

You have always quoted it and never written it out. Can you do so, please and see how you tried to force-fit your own ideas where they do not exist?

olabowale:

You can then use it to nullify 29!

The Quran can nullify, abrogate and cancel itself. The Bible doesn't do so.

olabowale:

I want to read your renedring irrelevant the "words" of God!

I have never done so and will not start to do so just because of you.

olabowale:

t least part of it by another part! Thats what you call the bible, word of god, aint it?

It is. Are you done being restless yet?

@ pligrim
well thanks, and for the records am not making points, just asking about stuffs i do not know. i would be completely honest with you. John and Mathew were with Jesus right, and Luke wasnt right. so we are on theseame level now. what about Paul? i think it would be easy if you gave me names of all the gospel writers and separate those that were alive during the time of Jesus, and those that came after Jesus was crusifed and gloried,

@shawn123,

shawn123:

@ pligrim
well thanks, and for the records am not making points, just asking about stuffs i do not know. i would be completely honest with you. John and Mathew were with Jesus right, and Luke wasnt right. so we are on theseame level now. what about Paul? i think it would be easy if you gave me names of all the gospel writers and separate those that were alive during the time of Jesus, and those that came after Jesus was crusifed and gloried,

I'll gladly do so some time later. Perhaps it would have been helpful to let us know where you're going. All the same, thanks and enjoy.

@olabowale and Pilgrim
i dont think its a wise idea to keep castigating each other's religion. The truth is we would not get anywhere by saying the quran said this and the bible didnt say that. cant you both see that both of you will never convince yourselves of anything with that tone. I for once never listen to anyone that has a so much dislike for what i believe in. If you got facts for me then fine, let hear it.

Please can anyone give me the answers to what i have been asking? i need to know the gospel writers/ dissiples. those that were alive during the time of Jesus and those that came afterwards that neve met Jesus. thanks , its for a comparison course report am doing,