About your comment on Jesus changing His name where is it recorded that Jesus changed His name?

His name was never jesus when he was alive but esua he is the only prophet in history whose name was change from his original name which was esau to jesus which is greek. but any way hold unto your belief and faith its good.

I'm kinda curious as to where you got that bit of 'info' but lets save that for a later thread . Holding on I shall be doing . . .

JeSoul:



Now my catholic brothas and sistas have other 'scriptures' apart from the bible and if you see my history here, I strongly oppose that. For the simple fact that these extra-biblical materials stand in strong contradiction to parts of the 66book bible and present a different way of salvation contrary to the bible. But this is not to say all catholics are going to hell, no. I've met catholics who love God and do not necessarily subscribe to the teachings of their church, why they stay? probably just tradition.

About your comment on Jesus changing His name where is it recorded that Jesus changed His name?

How do you know your bible (the 66 books bible) is the correct one? How?

she said she doesnt kno'w huxley, let her be pls.

@ jesoul there is no letter J in the armaic language and his name was'nt jesus that i know for sure it was change to jesus by the greeks.

huxley:

How do you know your bible (the 66 books bible) is the correct one? How?

  By faith, it's all by faith and the evidence of God revealing Himself, through those very words to me daily.

mazaje:

she said she doesnt kno'w huxley, let her be please.

Lol . . . we have been begging oga huxley to let us be for months but the bobo no'gree

@ jesoul there is no letter J in the armaic language and his name was'nt jesus that i know for sure it was change to jesus by the greeks.

    Even if you're right, what difference does it make what His name was?

huxley:

How do you know your bible (the 66 books bible) is the correct one? How?

And how do you know the Bible is not correct how?

The Bible has been tested over years. . . and it has stood the test of time over the years.

The word of God is Yea and Amen. And in His WORD, not a single jot will go without been fulfilled.

mazaje:

she said she doesnt kno'w huxley, let her be please.

I understand your charity towards her and to soft-peddle her, but what concerns me is that she expressed VERY STRONG views towards something she does not know. Would the more rational thing to do is to remain undecided? It is this tendency to have strong but wrong opinions about the world that worries me.

She probably believes her 66 books bible was handed down to the Christians leather-bound, printed in ink on nice paper by god. She ought to be encourage to go research the history of the bible before expressing such strong but erroneous views. Alas, she won't do that as is the wont of 99% of christians.

Quote from: JeSoul on Today at 12:16:06 AM

Now my catholic brothas and sistas have other 'scriptures' apart from the bible and if you see my history here, I strongly oppose that. For the simple fact that these extra-biblical materials stand in strong contradiction to parts of the 66book bible and present a different way of salvation contrary to the bible. But this is not to say all catholics are going to hell, no. I've met catholics who love God and do not necessarily subscribe to the teachings of their church, why they stay? probably just tradition.

huxley:


I understand your charity towards her and to soft-peddle her, but what concerns me is that she expressed VERY STRONG views towards something she does not know. Would the more rational thing to do is to remain undecided? It is this tendency to have strong but wrong opinions about the world that worries me.

What "concerns" and "worries" you? lol . . . Please don't patronize me hux, I know you are anything but 'worried' and 'concerned' whether or not the 66book bible is true. Haven't there been enough threads here on NL questioning the bible? I know the usual song and dance, they are historians both for and against the bible - it comes down to YOU and whether or not you believe it. Simple.

JeSoul:

You are welcome brotha . My job is not to convince you remember? just to tell you and hope that'll you'll have enough faith to simply believe. Thanks to you to for being a cool cat

After going thruough your post JeSoul its seems u can't give any logical explanation to what you know in the bible because what you know is based on your strong faith and your strong beliefs So u can't convince someone like me that there is a God soley based on your strong faith and strong beliefs. I need physical evidence.

JeSoul:

What "concerns" and "worries" you? lol . . . Please don't patronize me hux, I know you are anything but 'worried' and 'concerned' whether or not the 66book bible is true. Haven't there been enough threads here on Nairaland questioning the bible? I know the usual song and dance, they are historians both for and against the bible - it comes down to YOU and whether or not you believe it. Simple.

Ok, you want the bait. There you go.

Why are modern version of bibles now printed with the following warnings associated with the following chapters/verses?

1) Mark 16: Verses 9 - 20 are not included in two of the best and oldest Greek copies of Mark

2) John 7 - John 8: Some early manuscripts do not contain 7: 53 - 8:11, that is the story of the woman caught in adultery.

Most Christians publishers are now being honest and trying to accurately reflect the state of the bible in its earliest form. If you bible contains these dodgy verses does it make your bible less holy. Why did god inspire these fraudulent additions into his holy book?

In view of this, do you have the right to point fingers at the Catholic bible that contains more books than yours?

manmustwac:

After going thruough your post JeSoul its seems u can't give any logical explanation to what you know in the bible because what you know is based on your strong faith and your strong beliefs So u can't convince someone like me that there is a God soley based on your strong faith and strong beliefs. I need physical evidence.

  Don't get me wrong brotha, christianity does not require you check your brain in at the door and become a zombie, no! not at all. So if it seems that way from my posts, I apologize.
BUT
  I wanted to over-emphasize the importance of faith on this thread. There have been many many discussions on the historical validity of the bible, both for and against. I have nuthin new to add to those already existing materials so I won't bother to repeat them here a quick search will suffice for intrested parties.

As for physical evidence, hehe, it has been available since the begining of the world see Romans 1:
19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

huxley:

Ok, you want the bait. There you go.

Why are modern version of bibles now printed with the following warnings associated with the following chapters/verses?

1) Mark 16: Verses 9 - 20 are not included in two of the best and oldest Greek copies of Mark

2) John 7 - John 8: Some early manuscripts do not contain 7: 53 - 8:11, that is the story of the woman caught in adultery.

Most Christians publishers are now being honest and trying to accurately reflect the state of the bible in its earliest form. If you bible contains these dodgy verses does it make your bible less holy. Why did god inspire these fraudulent additions into his holy book?

In view of this, do you have the right to point fingers at the Catholic bible that contains more books than yours?

Huxley, I won't "discuss" with you.
Wordsmith already captured you in a phrase when he said this

. . . and that's where the problem lies. You always find the answers of a theist, Christians in particular, "irrational and palpably wrong". 'Til you rid yourself of your prejudice, you, and many others like you would always "find the answers irrational and palpably wrong".

@JeSoul
me reading a book is not going to convince me that there is a God. {thats not what i call physical evidence} I need to meet him in the flesh. Come on mehn call his cell number and tell him to come down from Heaven and pay me a visit. Seeing is believing

JeSoul:


Huxley, I won't "discuss" with you.
Wordsmith already captured you in a phrase when he said this

hahahahahahahahha. Why am I not surprised?

It would have been a miracle if you has dared to answer it, but knowing just how bereft of reason you guys are, it is no surprise you would find an excuse, any excuse, to not answer.

How well do faith and reason mix? Hardly. A religious person has to use reason while studying in school and while seeking her daily bread but she has to suspend it when it comes to religion when things start looking illogical. Then there comes to issue of free will. Do we make our choices or are they predetermined by God? Can we change things through action, prayer? The science that makes air travel possible and gives us electricity invalidates Adam and Eve. yet it works. Prayers may work but it is never guaranteed.

Interestingly, I believe Faith is very useful and has its place in society. But are the current approaches the best? Why is the majority of Europeans atheist while America and Africa revel in Religious extravaganza? Is something wrong with the Europeans? Do they know too much?

Where do I stand? Do I believe in God? Christ? Religion? I seek understanding without offending anyone. But I still can't find that point where Faith and Reason can hold a productive argument. Somebody help me.

bioye:

How well do faith and reason mix? Hardly. A religious person has to use reason while studying in school and while seeking her daily bread but she has to suspend it when it comes to religion when things start looking illogical. Then there comes to issue of free will. Do we make our choices or are they predetermined by God? Can we change things through action, prayer? The science that makes air travel possible and gives us electricity invalidates Adam and Eve. yet it works. Prayers may work but it is never guaranteed.

Interestingly, I believe Faith is very useful and has its place in society. But are the current approaches the best? Why is the majority of Europeans atheist while America and Africa revel in Religious extravaganza? Is something wrong with the Europeans? Do they know too much?

Where do I stand? Do I believe in God? Christ? Religion? I seek understanding without offending anyone. But I still can't find that point where Faith and Reason can hold a productive argument. Somebody help me.

You have made some good points. Can I recommend this book by George Smith http://www.federacionatea.org/documentos/thecaseagainstgod.pdf


There are many other resources online. If you you like to know more, just let me know and I shall post the links here.

bioye:

How well do faith and reason mix? Hardly. A religious person has to use reason while studying in school and while seeking her daily bread but she has to suspend it when it comes to religion when things start looking illogical.

  I see your point but I wouldn't necessarily say faith and reason are mutually exclusive. There are many things in the bible that require judicious and diligent study, reasoning in order to understand (with the help of the Holyspirit of course). Faith takes over when our minds meet an issue that is beyond our grasp or control or reasoning or "illogical" as you put it.

Then there comes to issue of free will. Do we make our choices or are they predetermined by God?

We have free-will and so we make our own choices. At the same time God also causes certain things to happen/not happen in our lives.

Can we change things through action, prayer?

If you believe the bible, yes.

Interestingly, I believe Faith is very useful and has its place in society. But are the current approaches the best? Why is the majority of Europeans atheist while America and Africa revel in Religious extravaganza? Is something wrong with the Europeans? Do they know too much? 

  It's obvious certain regions of the world are more religious than others. I attribute the "atheistic" tendencies of the west to its arrogance, based on the fact they've developed so much, they've so to speak 'grown' out of religion. They have become so 'intelligent' that they have cut-off the basic, inherent knowledge of God within every human being. 
While Africa still remains under-developed, she will cling to the only thing she's ever known - religion, but oftentime she does it for all the wrong reasons. Instead of astriving and aiming to better herself, she riles in a terrible state of lowliness, expecting God to rescue her without her having to work hard for it.

Where do I stand? Do I believe in God? Christ? Religion? I seek understanding without offending anyone. But I still can't find that point where Faith and Reason can hold a productive argument. Somebody help me.

  You wouldn't be the first one to struggle with faith and reason . . . and you won't be the last. I still do think though that all things being equal, faith and reason can co-exist. However certain issues cannot be thought or reasoned out and must be left to faith.

manmustwac:

@JeSoul
me reading a book is not going to convince me that there is a God. {thats not what i call physical evidence} I need to meet him in the flesh. Come on mehn call his cell number and tell him to come down from Heaven and pay me a visit. Seeing is believing

You didn't get me. The "physical evidence" you are asking for is already all around you
Romans 1:
19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

God has shown humankind everything there is to prove His existence, the problem is that we choose to consistently ignore and deny it.

JeSoul:

You didn't get me. The "physical evidence" you are asking for is already all around you
Romans 1:
19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

God has shown humankind everything there is to prove His existence, the problem is that we choose to consistently ignore and deny it.

what are the things that are available to prove his existance? can you list them for us?

mazaje:

what are the things that are available to prove his existance? can you list them for us?

Romans 1:
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
The verse is saying that nature itself, the world we see around us is proof of God's existence and greatness.

  I was walking in from the parking lot to my work building and I looked at the lush green grass, the perfectly crafted blade, the fine details on each piece, the deep shade of green, millions of them forming a lavish carpet across the lawn and I thot to myself - how can anyone say this happened by accident?by 'evolution'?
The complexity and intricate design of a simple blade of grass is infinite proof - to me- that there is a God who designed and created the world. It is not just by faith, it is the logical conclusion, that something complex, designed with incredible detail could not have just happened by accident.

  You cannot look at your laptop and say it evolved, there's too much detail, too much perfect 'coincidences' that all work together to run this machine to say it was an accident. Look at the human body, it is incredible the way it works, from every cell to every tissue, every organ, all the billions of things that happen in the body every day to keep it alive . . . it could not have come together by accident, it would be illogical to say that.

JeSoul:

Romans 1:
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
The verse is saying that nature itself, the world we see around us is proof of God's existence and greatness.

I was walking in from the parking lot to my work building and I looked at the lush green grass, the perfectly crafted blade, the fine details on each piece, the deep shade of green, millions of them forming a lavish carpet across the lawn and I thot to myself - how can anyone say this happened by accident?by 'evolution'?
The complexity and intricate design of a simple blade of grass is infinite proof - to me- that there is a God who designed and created the world. It is not just by faith, it is the logical conclusion, that something complex, designed with incredible detail could not have just happened by accident.

You cannot look at your laptop and say it evolved, there's too much detail, too much perfect 'coincidences' that all work together to run this machine to say it was an accident. Look at the human body, it is incredible the way it works, from every cell to every tissue, every organ, all the billions of things that happen in the body every day to keep it alive . . . it could not have come together by accident, it would be illogical to say that.

you know little about evolution and i would'nt want go into that line of argument with you. but your explanation has nothing to do with the evidence of good. it provides no evidence at all. the fact that there is an intricate cosmos has nothing to do with the evidence of a god. god to me means the laws of nature(gravity,seasons etc). simple not some white/arab man with long beard sitting up in heaven and waiting for the end of time to destroy in eternity all those that do not believe in his son jesus or his prophet mohhamed. besides which of all the gods is really god? is it jehova, allah,pallongun.buddah,shivelskine,zeus etc who amongs them is god?

mazaje:


you know little about evolution and i would'nt want go into that line of argument with you.

  Sweetie I'm a scientist, I've been down that road of evolution and even going into the intricacies of proposed theories, they are still just that, theories. Regardless of how scientists have said it may have happened, to me, the complexities are still too incredible to have been as a result of chance.

but your explanation has nothing to do with the evidence of good.

   We're weren't talking about the evidence of good, the verse says "his eternal power and divine nature" and I was just explaining that.
  About evidence of good we can get into that later as it's a whole nother issue that needs time and in-depth discussion.

the fact that there is an intricate cosmos has nothing to do with the evidence of a god.

  and how do you suppose this "intricate cosmos" came to be? by accident? It has everything to do with the existence of God my friend, it in itself is evidence.

 

god to me means the laws of nature(gravity,seasons etc).

You are simply substituting my friend. you seem unwilling to bring yourself to say that these "laws of nature" are as a result of the handiwork of God. Why call those things god?

simple not some white/arab man with long beard sitting up in heaven and waiting for the end of time to destroy in eternity all those that do not believe in his son jesus or his prophet mohhamed.

  You may have watched one too many movies about God because He is not a what you think He is, not some haggard, wimpy, dude waiting to unleash his fury on the world. He is not vengeful and indifferent towards man. Infact the bible says that "God is unwilling that any should perish but that all should be saved."
  And what evidence do I have the God of the bible is real? I'll say it again - faith. I cannot prove God to anyone because that's not the way He works. He reveals Himself to each person when then genuinely and honestly seek Him. So no matter how many times you ask whether na alla or Jehovah, no one can tell you, only God can reveal Himself to you.

JeSoul:

  Sweetie I'm a scientist, I've been down that road of evolution and even going into the intricacies of proposed theories, they are still just that, theories. Regardless of how scientists have said it may have happened, to me, the complexities are still too incredible to have been as a result of chance.


   We're weren't talking about the evidence of good, the verse says "his eternal power and divine nature" and I was just explaining that.
  About evidence of good we can get into that later as it's a whole nother issue that needs time and in-depth discussion.


  and how do you suppose this "intricate cosmos" came to be? by accident? It has everything to do with the existence of God my friend, it in itself is evidence.

  You are simply substituting my friend. you seem unwilling to bring yourself to say that these "laws of nature" are as a result of the handiwork of God. Why call those things god?


  You may have watched one too many movies about God because He is not a what you think He is, not some haggard, wimpy, dude waiting to unleash his fury on the world. He is not vengeful and indifferent towards man. Infact the bible says that "God is unwilling that any should perish but that all should be saved."
  And what evidence do I have the God of the bible is real? I'll say it again - faith. I cannot prove God to anyone because that's not the way He works. He reveals Himself to each person when then genuinely and honestly seek Him. So no matter how many times you ask whether na alla or Jehovah, no one can tell you, only God can reveal Himself to you.

I like your explanation, but you know religious arguments and discussions are like two people talking to each other in two different languages. we see things differently. your entire live revolves around the bible mine does'nt(mine used to) hence the lack of understanding. a moslem(which i once was), hindu,shirk ect will defend his faith with all his life because that is what he knows. but the ultimate question is why are they wrong with their faiths and why are you right with yours? even you can not provide the answers to such a question hence you resort to faith. personally i do not need to have faith in something that is real. my car is real hence i do not need to have faith that it will take me to work tommorow thats if it is in a good condition all i need to do is get into it and drive my self to work. because its real i do not need to sit down inside and believe it will take me to work with out driving it. every body claims he/she believe in god, there have been many goods some have died away and some are still living because people still believe in them. but which is it? allah? buddah, shirsna, jehova, which? they can't all be true and i know they are all non existent. just by the way the nature they presented them selves to their followers.

mazaje:

I like your explanation, but you know religious arguments and discussions are like two people talking to each other in two different languages.

  Unfortunately you are soo right right about this    I wish we "spoke" the same language.

we see things differently. your entire live revolves around the bible mine does'nt(mine used to)

What happened now? 
 

every body claims he/she believe in god, there have been many goods some have died away and some are still living because people still believe in them. but which is it? allah? buddah, shirsna, jehova, which? they can't all be true and i know they are all non existent. just by the way the nature they presented them selves to their followers.

   Indeed they can't.
Having been nuthin other than a christian, I can't personally say what its like to be in the islam camp vs the Christian camp. I would use the testimonies of former moslems but there are also testimonies of former 'christians' claiming the same thing.
   But I can say though that the bible has several prophecies in the O.T. which were fulfilled by Jesus in the NT, hundreds of years apart. That alone lends a world of credibility to the God and writers of the bible.

Indeed they can't.
Having been nuthin other than a christian, I can't personally say what its like to be in the islam camp vs the Christian camp. I would use the testimonies of former moslems but there are also testimonies of former 'christians' claiming the same thing.
   But I can say though that the bible has several prophecies in the O.T. which were fulfilled by Jesus in the NT, hundreds of years apart. That alone lends a world of credibility to the God and writers of the bible.   

moslems will say they were so called 'moslems' too.

the bible old and new testament were complied, editted and arranged to form a believeable story as far as i am concered and that has nothing to do with making it better than islam, hinduism, budahism, shirk, etc. which also have coherent and believable stories too. thats why we have about 1.5 billion moslems some dying for the believeable myths because it sounds logical and coherent to them, some see and expereience it just the way you see ,feel and experience christainity. i have practiced both religions and i know very much what i am talking about, there are over 900million  hindus etc each believing and sometimes dying for their beliefs because they are coherent and believeable enough. so the fact that the old testament agrees with the new testament proves nothing. because they were both written to sound and look believeable.

the fact that there is an intricate cosmos has nothing to do with the evidence of a god.  god to me means the laws of nature(gravity,seasons etc).

What is the origin of the laws of nature? How did the laws of nature came into existence? What is energy and what is the origin of energy?

m_nwankwo:

What is the origin of the laws of nature? How did the laws of nature came into existence? What is energy and what is the origin of energy?

I have'nt studied that yet but i believe that scientiest have provided answers to that. i will look it up and send down some links. what do you feel is the origin of god? who and what created him/her? by the way which of the gods am i refering to since there are so many of them.

mazaje:

I[b] have'nt studied that yet but i believe that scientiest have provided answers to that. i will look it up and send down some links[/b]. what do you feel is the origin of god? who and what created him/her? by the way which of the gods am i refering to since there are so many of them.

I await for your answers. As far as I know science has description of gravity, energy, etc but not what it is or its origin. Thus it will be interesting to see the links you will provide. There is only one GOD, the creator. GOD has no origin nor is he created. What is created cannot be God.

m_nwankwo:

I await for your answers. As far as I know science has description of gravity, energy, etc but not what it is or its origin. Thus it will be interesting to see the links you will provide. There is only one GOD,the creator . GOD has no origin nor is he created. What is created cannot be God.

says who. if god can spring up from no where uncreated then people can spring up from no where uncreated too. (does that sound reasonable to you?) i believe you are refering to the biblical god as the one true good right? ok i want you to prove to me that allah is not god?

mazaje:

says who. if god can spring up from no where uncreated then people can spring up from no where uncreated too. (does that sound reasonable to you?) i believe you are refering to the biblical god as the one true good right? ok i want you to prove to me that allah is not god?

What do you mean by people? If you mean our biological bodies, then, they did not spring up from no where. The fertilization of an egg by sperm set off the process that results in our bodies. Do you have evidence, even anectodes of how God originated? I am referrring to God, the creator of the unverse. God is God.

m_nwankwo:

What do you mean by people? If you mean our biological bodies, then, they did not spring up from no where. The fertilization of an egg by sperm set off the process that results in our bodies. Do you have evidence, even anectodes of how God originated? I am referrring to God, the creator of the unverse. God is God.

I have already told you what i consider to be god. god is god? are you kidding me? allah is god too, he has his own creation story which is very different from that of the god of the bible. so why should allah and his creation story be discarded? you still have'nt proven to me that allah is not god. and god is not god because there are so many of them all claiming to be the one true god. they can't all be right and as far as i know they all don't exist. god is a personal experience, moslems, christains,hindus,buddist , shinto etc all have personal experience about their gods and all their experiences are as real as it can be. who is right and who is wrong? why is jehova better than allah? and why should buddah be discarded?

@post
There is no problem with the Atheist. Its just that the Atheist believes in the theory of evolution which in this modern world is a far more logical explanation to the origins of mankind and all the animal species. The problem with the Christiann is that ultimately their religion is just based on thier strong belief and strong faith

The book that they believe in called the bible dose not explain the origins of dinosaurs or the apeman simply because they didn't have the technology then that we have now to discover them. Whenever you try to make these simple points known to any Christian they will just start quoting from thier book and cling on rigidly to thier believe There is no amount of quoting from thier bible that can explain away the dinosaurs or the apeman. But then thers nothing i can say that will change the mind of the Christian and like wise there is nothing they can say that will change the mind of th Atheist. So i let me just say to the post. You stick to your beliefs and you let me stick to mins